Luas Finglas

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120592525#Comment_120592525

If you look at DIE, it seems to be mostly big retail like electrical, furniture, hardware, bicycles etc.

It's more commercial than industrial.

It's a mixed bag really. I'm sure some could stay. Definitely the brewery should stay and have a pub in front.

I wasn't aware it was cost of rent that kept ground floor retail empty. I had assumed it was lack of demand. Or I guess the footfall and potential revenue isn't enough to justify the rent.

Most only have a shop and a pharmacy and maybe a cafe and a creche and that's it.

I think it could be car free in the interior with car access limited to the edges.

I'd imagine an urban planning architect would be licking their lips at the potential.

It's unprecedented in Ireland with the amount of public transport connections.

It will have Luas, Dart, Bus, Cycleway and Metro nearby. 5 modes.

Murph85

When they cancel dublin metro. This might be sped up, a pathetic 4km extension will be the countries flagship infrastructure project... they can then say they are expanding the rail network... watch this space...

It wimt service the airport, but we can get rail a few km closer to it every decade of obscene tax revenues the country has...

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593682#Comment_120593682

Didn't you start a whole thread whinging about the country only recently? Can we keep the moaning over there before the thread gets overrun with this type of posting?

bk

“If you look at DIE, it seems to be mostly big retail like electrical, furniture, hardware, bicycles etc.

It's more commercial than industrial.”

Fair enough on the brewery, it could be integrated into a pub.

But the problem you’d face with most of the other business is what do they do while the construction is happening? Basically we are talking about most of the buildings there being levelled and being rebuilt into large apartment building. The entire place will be a building site for years. So either way those business will need to move out, I’d doubt they would return after.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593682#Comment_120593682

I think the Metrolink will happen. The cost benefit is too positive.

Also we'll need to open up land for development land in the north side for housing close to good transport links.

Ballymun and Northwood in particular can take 1000s of apartments.

Otherwise we just sprawl westwards.

Unless we suffer another catastrophic recession but it doesn't look likely on the horizon.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120594160#Comment_120594160

Yeah it won't be easy. It's not my area of expertise.

I'm just thinking in terms of Jane Jacobs theories in mixed income urban environments and also 15 minute city.

So there should be workplaces for everyone and services for everything.

It will happen piecemeal anyway so maybe businesses can scale down and share a premises with another business.

Alternatively they move out for a few years and come back but that's maybe unrealistic.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120594379#Comment_120594379

Do we not already have 15 minute cities in Dublin?

There arent many parts of the city where you are not within a 15 walk or cycle of shops, supermarket, school workplaces etc.

I dont see how this concept is any different than what we already have. In Dublin, at least.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595409#Comment_120595409

Yeah I know. It's a bit of a buzzword.

But certainly Ballymun and Tallaght weren't 15 minute cities when they were built. They were housing and nothing else.

Ballymun still isn't.

But the Grand Canal Docks area certainly is.

Likewise Sandyford etc.

bk

The 15 minute city concept doesn’t really include light industrial. usually it means office work, retail and folks working from home.

Yes, there should definitely be quiet a bit of office space there, given the way the world is going you’d hope quiet a bit of co working spaces, a lot of people living there maybe working from home or hybrid working.

Sure it would be a good idea to have a digital hub type setup, develop some small local business, but it really doesn’t make any sense to have a bunch of large warehouses there!

Today Ireland is a service oriented economy, that means mostly office work. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any industry in Ireland, but it really doesn’t make any sense to have cheap warehouses just 30 minutes walk from the city center of a European capital city that is almost completely service focused. It is a complete waste of highly valuable land that should be densely populated.

Ive no doubt that between offices and retail in the location, it will employ far more people then it does today.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595409#Comment_120595409

Inner M50 (the older parts) and especially closer to the city centre perhaps. But we have lots of 2 floor house estates with only one entry point and even if a shop is close, it could a walking around for over 2 km. Outer M50 estates at the suburbs are even worse. These walls around the estates aren't just ugly, but also limiting access.

I have Lidl and Aldi close buy. I can see an Aldi sign from my estate. But it's 1.5 km away which is around 15-20 min walking? That's because that business park doesn't have pedestrian gates closer to our residential estate. And there's plenty of examples as such. This seem to be a very British way of planning estates. Haven't seen anything like that badly designed in the European continent where open spaces and access for pedestrians is very common.

Paddico

Any movement or announcements on this recently?

Ronald Binge Redux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108790#Comment_121108790

Of course not - why would official Ireland do anything as gauche as putting shovels in the ground, when drawing colouredy lines on maps will get headlines in the papers etc ad nauseum.

cgcsb

By early 2024 the huge planninf backlog of busconnects, metrolink and Dart+ will be cleared out of ABP so that'll be a good time to apply for a railway order for Luas Finglas, Luas Cork and Bus Connects Cork. It silly that everything was put through the planning process at the same time but there ya go.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109269#Comment_121109269

They should've just continued with Finglas Luas after Broombridge was done.

I think they should start it as soon as possible.

Masterplans for Dublin Industrial Estate and Jamestown are currently being drawn up so it'll have to happen now.

I wonder what impact it will have on the bad parts of Finglas like the SW.

Will it gentrify or is it beyond that?

Ronald Binge Redux

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109269#Comment_121109269

The only time projects went through quickly, albeit after the usual drawn out pulling to bits and redesigning, was when the Luas lines were approved through a sole member tribunal process. Using ABP has been disastrous.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109429#Comment_121109429

Oh don't get me wrong, in my view the entire process is not fit for purpose. What we need is a total reform, dismantle the whole thing, look at international best practice and replicate it here. The new process should ban political interference, planning is a technical discipline, failed school teachers who gey a few votes don't have the training to make these decisions.

In the mean time have emergency legislation that just automatically approves all sustainable transport, new and replacement utilities and new high density housing with 100+ units for the next few years.

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108790#Comment_121108790

Railway order application in spring 2024.

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121116834#Comment_121116834

Who said that?

Paddico

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117740#Comment_121117740

Peregrine did .... thanks Peregrine😄

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117740#Comment_121117740

Some posters have inside info. Spring 24 is what I've heard before and seems like a reasonable estimate given the other major transport projects should all have finished their stint in ABP by then. It'll be 2 years since the first bus connects corridor was submitted. FInglas luas will probably be before Cork luas at this stage.

ArcadiaJunction

It should go right through to the airport. Not as the main airport rail service but a lot of people along its course work in the airport and surrounding commerical areas.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121201612#Comment_121201612

Masterplans are being done for Jamestown Industrial Estate and Glasnevin Industrial estate, so it makes sense they'll want to get this through quickly.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121201682#Comment_121201682

It would be great if it could connect with the Metro somewhere in Ballymun but it doesn't look so simple.

It could go over the M50 and then through green fields but I'm not sure that's desirable.

I don't think it's possible for it to continue along St Margaret's Rd to Ballymun/Northwood.

If Jamestown Industrial Estate is being redeveloped, then it could go along Melville Rd and Balbutcher Lane. This seems the easiest route.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121201682#Comment_121201682

I suspect it will someday, but they probably want to avoid doing that before Metrolink is built or at least well under construction.

They probably want to avoid any politician getting the idea that they could cancel Metrolink and do this instead.

ArcadiaJunction

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121202176#Comment_121202176

Yes that is what I was thinking myself. Bit like the Interconnector/PPT thingy back in the day.

Still, seems a bit pointless going 4Kms to the north when the same distance again (across mostly fields) gets it to the airport. Reminds me of how the Red and Green line did not connect for years even though was a no brainer from the start.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121202196#Comment_121202196

It doesn't need to go to the Airport, just needs to connect with the Metro in Ballymun or Northwood.

It's probably difficult to run it right up to the terminal.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121201682#Comment_121201682

I'd imagine it'll be extended at least to Ikea/Northwood

BagofWeed

That's the Irish way sure aren't weapons manufacturers sniffing around now to get their hands on our money which should put the Luas plans even further back.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121202230#Comment_121202230

This is what I'm thinking.

Which route do you think? St Margaret's Rd doesn't look likely

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121202241#Comment_121202241

This 'bad gateway' shíte took the post I was replying to. #513