Luas Finglas

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121206181#Comment_121206181

Development may have been set back in certain locations when Metro West was an active plan but that certainly isn't the case along the full route as much of the development pre-dates Metro West. The fact remains that it is no longer an active plan, it doesn't have an official route and lands are not formally preserved for it (even if sections of potentially suitable lands are unlikely to be developed as narrow green strips between a road and existing development aren't suitable for other development).

A high capacity, high frequency Metro / tram route would do more than a bus route but with buses you can have multiple routes, not just a route as would be the case with tram/metro. Multiple bus routes serving several areas but all crossing the Liffey at one point would be more effective in serving west Dublin which is a huge area and quite dispersed.

Plus the route isn't suitable for a metro given the high number of junctions encountered so frequency will be limited. Utilising the R136 and R113 on the south side and R121 and R843 on the north side might actually provide more capacity that a single line on one route. The diverse routes would certainly provide greater coverage.

And the reality of the situation is that we are actively planning buses to link these areas to the city centre so the idea that orbital tram/metro would even be considered is a complete fantasy. Buses can more effectively serve the large area for a fraction of the cost and be delivered much faster. It is a more practical and pragmatic solution and we should be actively looking to provide the missing link (Liffey bridge) now.

Ronald Binge Redux

"Multiple bus routes serving several areas but all crossing the Liffey at one point would be more effective in serving west Dublin which is a huge area and quite dispersed."

Sounds familiar. Condensation running down the windows and irregular multiple letter variations will add to the authentic experience. Remember that this was the actively promoted alterative to the DRRTS plan, especially by self styled 'rail enthusiast' Garret Fitzgerald and all the wise old men writing articles in the Sundays about the Folly of Rail Investment

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121202751#Comment_121202751

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121203852#Comment_121203852

There were posts suggesting that extending the Green Line to Broombridge would result in an increase in anti-social behaviour along the rest of the line. Guess what? It hasn't happened, and I don't think that extending the LUAS to Charlestown will do it either.

Your comments are pretty insulting towards the vast majority of people living in Finglas and Charlestown to be honest, who are as much entitled to quality public transport as you are.

Perhaps addressing the underlying issues that cause anti-social behaviour in the first place should be the priority for society rather than making infantile comments like the above.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208422#Comment_121208422

He's not worth responding to.

Finglas Luas will be brilliant for the area. Lots of good, decent people will benefit from it. Homeowners should even see a rise in property value.

They should've just continued extending the Luas to Finglas after the Broombridge stop was finished. I don't see why they stopped. There was no other big infrastructure jobs happening.

Does anyone know if the greenfields to the west of Finglas (Dunsink) are able to be developed in to housing?

I know it used to be a rubbish dump.

Is the soil and water basically poisoned forever or can it be saved?

It would be great to run another Luas (or DART even) line out that direction and build a new suburb.

Pretty good location with good transport.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208422#Comment_121208422

There has been increased antisocial on the Green line. Though still not as bad as the Red Line, thankfully.

Agree that social problems need to be solved, but they wont be.

So pushing the line through areas that have higher instances of anti social behaviour deters people from using PT. Its a fact.

I think i already said it, but i know men and women who live on the Red Line and work in town, but drive to work, because they dont feel safe on the Luas.

You are a great advocate for PT, which is to be commended. But the simple truth is that if folks dont feel safe on PT, they wont use it.

Regardless of what the root cause of the problem is and regardless of what we should have done (but havent done) to fix it.

Bebra

The council were due to commission a report into the feasibility of housing at Dunsink. Potential for 5000 or so houses I think was the figure mentioned. The GDA transport strategy shows a potential post-2042 luas line running through the area towards Tyrellstown.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208717#Comment_121208717

Really?

I use the Green Line regularly and I have not noticed any increase in anti-social behaviour as a result of the extension.

The vast majority of people in Finglas and Charlestown are good, decent, hardworking people, who are as entitled to high quality public transport as the rest of us. I find that kind of generalising and tarnishing everyone with the same brush very insulting to be honest.

If people don't want to use public transport that's up to them, but frankly I would suggest that dealing with the societal issues is what needs to happen, rather than not investing in decent public transport for different areas of the city.

markpb

Transdev said a year or two ago that the most problematic stop on the Green line was Ballyogan Wood in leafy south Dublin.

Whatever antisocial crowd used to ruin Broombridge appear to have gone away which is a remarkable transformation. It’s not very long ago that Irish Rail RPU wouldn’t set foot in the place, where the platforms were lifted and replaced with tarmac because it was less useful for throwing at passing trains and where the Leap back office had a piece of custom code to handle the complete lack of validators at the station. It’s great to see!

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121209252#Comment_121209252

Is it right that they're talking about connecting these thugs in south county Dublin with the with the unspoilt uplands of Finglas? Think of the carnage that they'll bring to the neighbourhood

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208717#Comment_121208717

We all deserve safe streets and safe public transport, however there has been a general increase in anti social behaviour across society, including all modes of public transport.

This issue should not be mixed up or misinterpreted to conclude that public transport investment should be withheld from lower socio-economic areas. Quite the opposite in fact - investing in public transport creates opportunities that help bring people out of poverty, crime and addiction.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208168#Comment_121208168

Let's just agree on one thing - a new Liffey 'missing link' bridge is desperately needed. It's appalling that the WestLink opened 33years ago in 1990 (currently an 8-lane motorway) and there is still a 9km gap between the nearest bridges (both narrow 2-lanes).

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121212385#Comment_121212385

That’s how you generate profits!!!

roadmaster

This is the most recent luas thread I could find so I'll put this here. TII & NTA are not extending Transdevs contract option but rather going to tender instead. I always felt it was ran well was there issues at a higher level with the service?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/11/30/transport-authorities-inviting-tenders-for-125-billion-luas-contract/

L1011

Edit: should have read the article first

The extension isn't guaranteed and a contract winner should never expect it to be.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121440354#Comment_121440354

Nothing to stop Transdev from bidding.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443306#Comment_121443306

I know that but if the where happy with them they would have just extended the contract leaving TII with less work and they could focus on other public transport projects such as new luas lines. Something happened behind the closed doors. Maybe they went to Transdev with the extension but transdev came back with large operating increase and TII said fine we will tender

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444808#Comment_121444808

I suspect that negotiations broke down.

Pete_Cavan

Extending a contract means the terms are already set so there should be little to negotiate. It's more likely that Transdev said they couldn't continue with the same terms given the changes which have happened since they were awarded the contract.

They are probably happier to take their chances in a new tender than take on a loss making contract extension.

Markcheese

Is there legislation saying it has to go back to tender after the term of the initial contract ,

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445460#Comment_121445460

After any extension terms specified in the original contract are expired it has to be rendered.

Contracts will often have rules to allow emergency extensions as well as any options put in it

KrisW1001

Yes, this whole thing sounds completely normal. What would be abnormal is an operating contract that could be extended indefinitely without allowing other companies to tender for it.

Transdev will surely bid to continue as operator, and if theirs is the best offer, they'll continue in place. But if some other company can do better, then they should be given the chance.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121445460#Comment_121445460

Tenders are normally written so there will be an original term and then one or more optional extensions that must be agreed by both parties. When the contract (including any extensions) ends, there must be a new tender. The extensions themselves don’t require a new tender but they can’t go on forever.

Sam Russell

When the Lotto came up for a new tender, An Post had to install all new equipment so as to not give it an 'unfair' advantage over a newcomer.

ESB had make a profit when the electricity market was opened up for competition. So they had to increase prices, and we went from the cheapest electricity in the EU to the dearest.

What nonsense.

KrisW1001

We have never had the cheapest electricity in the EU. In 2008 when deregulation started, we had the sixth highest retail prices for electricity in the EU. Today, our prices are middle of the pack within the EU.

Energy prices have risen since then across the board, due to the higher costs of fossil fuels, and increasing investment in renewables to try break our dependence on those fuels.

gjim

I dread to think where the country would be if electricity market had not been opened. My rough estimate is that there has been nearly 10B of private investment into wind generation since 2008. If the market hadn't been opened to private investment, all new generation capital investment would have been subject to politics. They'd still be stinking up the Dail with endless debates from Healy Raes' climate change denialism, "what about the homeless?" whataboutary, and of course the almighty NIMBY representations before even 100m could be spent on wind turbines.

I don't think it's an accident either that the only countries still pushing/expanding coal in a big way (India and China) are ones where central government has retained complete control over generation investment decisions while renewables have been unstoppable even in places which would be politically inhospitable - like Texas simply because of market forces. Some investment decisions are clearly better done centrally by government, but it's obvious to me that electricity generation is not one of these areas especially in the race to decarbonise energy.

spacetweek

Back to Finglas and its Luas aspirations please.

Idbatterim

Back on topic.. why is this tiny scheme, not extended out to connect with metrolink from the get go ? What's the plan? Link it to metrolink by 2068 ?

spacetweek

Probably because the Metro West plan will connect west Dublin to end of Luas Finglas to Metrolink at Dardistown and that is planned to be built as Metro not Luas. Different systems and trains.

Podge_irl

Metro West isn't a thing, at least at the moment.

AngryLips

So it's been six years since luas cross city opened. How is this addition to the network doing? Even though it's been around so long, I just realised I never really use it to get across the city centre and I've not much experience using it further north either. I remember the passenger number projections for this connection were relatively modest but have we heard anything about how it is doing versus expectations? Does it need the Finglas extension to fully realise its potential?