Luas Finglas

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122362077#Comment_122362077

Luas Finglas will comfortably happen.

Low hanging fruit even for this basket case of a country (pun intended).

KrisW1001

Yes, Finglas is happening, but there's also the fact that the first Luas trams are now 20 years old (I feel old...), and will be up for overhaul or retirement soon. New stock will be needed to allow this to happen without reduction of service.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122364053#Comment_122364053

isn't that tender already out?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122366577#Comment_122366577

Pretty certain that that was only a pre-announcement of the thing reannounced this week.

markpb

TII published the tender two days ago: https://www.etenders.gov.ie/epps/cft/prepareViewCfTWS.do?resourceId=3522270 . Submission deadline is September.

"This contract is intended to cover all future LRV requirements that may arise from time to time for any project initiated in the coming 15 years from date of the publication of the associated contract award notice. While it is not possible to give a definitive estimate of the value, however, an order of magnitude estimate is calculated to to be in the region of €500 million for supplies and services that could foreseeably arise under the contract."

The tender for the combined Operations/Maintenance contract for Luas (currently with Transdev) is also out but they're not expecting to make a decision until February. It's a whopping €1.75bn over 14 years.

gjim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122364053#Comment_122364053

20 years should be nothing for trams. Refurb maybe but retirement? Half the trams in daily use around Europe are twice that age.

Ireland trains

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122366838#Comment_122366838

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1003/1408752-tii-advised-not-to-prolong-life-of-40-luas-trams/ From last year.

gjim

Fair enough if they've done their research and the TCO is lower by replacement with new. I've ridden on plenty of trams around Europe that are clearly at least a generation older than the Luas stock.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122369109#Comment_122369109

I have too, but then they often have far more extensive trams networks, that often can include some quieter lines that aren't as busy and they can get away with using older trams.

Plus lines running on parallel streets etc. that allow the network to keep running if there is a break down.

I think folks forget that our two lines are actually some of the busiest and most heavily used in both frequency and passenger numbers in the world. So high reliability is very important for us.

Of course this is because we rely on those two lines in a way that other cities don't. Most would have converted them to Metro's long before they hit these sort of passenger numbers.

Many of these cities would have multiple Metro lines that act as the backbone of their network, with their tram network feeding off that at a lower frequency then we use. Basically we use trams like other cities use Metro's and we use buses like those cities use trams. Lower frequency, lower speeds, more street running, closer stops, more extensive network, etc.

marno21

Not sure if posted here but Hugh Creegan of the NTA said this at the Oireachtas Transport Committee meeting last week

» In terms of the Luas projects, Luas Finglas will be the next line that will go to construction, in my view. A railway order application is ready to go into An Bord Pleanála. Government approval is required for that, which I believe will come through in the coming weeks. If this is the case, then that application will be submitted around September.

roadmaster

When you look at the amount of residental units going up in charlestown and the potential rezoning of the Dublin Industrial Park could the Luas Finglas line reach over capacity very quickly?

cgcsb

Good news. Hopefully the backlog at abp can be reduced in the coming months and a timely decision can be reached. Finglas luas is facing no opposition it's a no brainer.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122386584#Comment_122386584

It is nowhere near capacity as it is.

Half the trams currently turn back at Parnell to head south again.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122386584#Comment_122386584

Maybe they can bring it underground all the way to Beachwood and join it up with a green line then upgrade the entire thing to metro?

LastCall

Luas Finglas is just an extension of the Green Line.

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122386601#Comment_122386601

I think the question was around, when it is extended to the top of Finglas (and hopefully to a tie in with Metro at Northwood) will it be over capacity with the already established population and the population coming on stream in the coming years with all the development planned?

It certainly will revolutionise Finglas, especially Finglas West which will finally have a swift connection across the city.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122387872#Comment_122387872

Keep in mind, that even once it is extended to Finglas, the length of the Green line from OCS to Finglas will be less then half the length of OCS south. While of course lots more people will use it, it should still be far less then the southern half of the line, so there should be plenty of capacity.

spacetweek

Luas Finglas won’t serve Finglas West though.

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388597#Comment_122388597

Well it definitely doesn’t serve Finglas East. It serves Finglas South (on the West side) and the Finglas Village stop in my view is in Finglas West. Everything West of the N2 is Finglas West.

Even the stop St. Margaret’s Road will be easily accessible for Finglas West.

Pete_Cavan

I could definitely foresee a situation in the not too distant future where the Green Line in its entirety is over capacity but the situation in the city centre prevents increasing capacity. It is the case already to the south (the "capacity enhancement" plan is to turn back trams before reaching the city centre) and I wouldn't be surprised if similar happens eventually on the northside with a certain number of trams turning back at Dominic St.

For now, the priority needs to be to get the Finglas extension started. Hopefully the current government will approve it quickly as there will be an election within the next 10 months and they’ll want to point to things which are progressing (Metrolink unfortunately isn't moving quick enough). With the big budget surpluses, hopefully there'll be a push on for Luas Finglas.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122388597#Comment_122388597

There’s a mellows stop. 5 minute walk for anyone in Finglas west.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122393359#Comment_122393359

There's no legal way that finglas luas will get a railway order before metrolink

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122393545#Comment_122393545

I didn't say anything about Luas Finglas getting a Railway Order before Metrolink.

The government could approve it to go to ABP, which the NTA expects "in the coming weeks". That would show tangible progress on the project, whereas for most of the public, Metrolink hasn't been progressing.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122394315#Comment_122394315

Who knows at at this stage!!!

I'd imagine Luas Finglas has broad support, and no one living in those are as privileged as other areas to dare bringing JR nonsense to the courts.

It had wide support during consultation. Hopefully it gets through super quick for once.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122394347#Comment_122394347

Broad support for a project isn't going to help it get through ABP any quicker really.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122394349#Comment_122394349

I disagree based on what I've seen from Inspectors Approval reports - most recently from Bus Connects corridors and the Level Crossing project on the Cork line.

These reports were 200 to 300 pages in length, going into meticulous detail on every inch of the project, mostly to address submissions made during consultation. Hence, if there is broad support and few negative submissions, there are less items to cover off, or worry about being challenged in court.

Read those recent Inspector Reports - rather than ABP saying.... "yeah we checked this against the guidelines and regulations, and it's sound, trust us, it's good to go".... seemingly they need to back up every single thought process with PHD level of research in order to avoid the approval being challenged in court.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122386584#Comment_122386584

There's a good bus route there also.

gjim

And there will be opportunities to change to DART at Broombridge - currently not particularly useful but with DART+ 5min frequencies will be far more attractive for those heading to the East of the city.

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413051#Comment_122413051

Exactly. Plus for green line luas Broombridge DART will be 1 stop away from connection to the Airport and Swords .