What are your no-no's with dating?

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

Well, the point is, I didn't spend my twenties dating bad boys, and now realised I want to settle down, which seems to be a common misconception about women in their thirties. I dated someone who was 'nice' (at the time) and it still didn't work out. Yes and yes, but my point was, I don't think there are any men who do those things for their female friends. Not even a lot of boyfriends would do them all!

Err... it's not a misconception... It might not be applicable to you... but many women find themselves single at 30(+), want to have children before it becomes dangerous, and rush to find someone for marriage.

As for the men not doing those things, you have a very different experience than I have. I learned to do all those things because I cared about the women I was with. Being able to do a foot massage was actually one of the best ways to change from the friends zone to actual dating. I know that my friends have done the same, because of comments during conversations (usually along the lines of a complaint where the action was done but no praise/appreciation for doing so) [Men can be stupid too]

Vela

Vela wrote: »

Ah ok, so you mean people who are hell bent on getting married need to stop complaining about the lack of super hot people who meet their exact requirements who want to marry them right now? That, I can get on board with.

:D:D:D

dude_abided

dude_abided wrote: »

Nice isn't being a pussy.

Nice is being you, working to improve yourself. Supporting your girl in what she wants to do, developing together. Treating her as an true equal, helping her out as needed. Being her best friend and companion. Being able to stand up for her when it matters. Being polite and civil in public, someone she can rely on but able to joke about anything in private. Doing the little things that you know tickle her fancy.

And when you get it all back in return, it can't be beaten.

Reading this thread makes me very grateful I'm off the market, though I would be if he ever tried to massage my feet. Ugh.

irishrebe

dude_abided wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Because you can't compare people to old manky fruit. You might not look as good in 10 years as you do now, but you might well be wiser, more mature, more interesting and many other things. Those girls who have started getting married might start getting divorced sooner than you think. You want to know something interesting though? This is purely a personal observation of mine. A good chunk of the sound, well adjusted, peaceful, happy people I know, both male and female, are single by choice.

It was a throw away analogy to highlight that there is less choice as you get older...

And yes whilst you can hope things will be better in 10 years (and you'd hope they would be) it still doesn't change the fact that being in your late 30's versus late 20's is a different kettle of fish.. Realistically I'm at my prime in my mid-late twenties. There's nothing out of place, realistically (outside of life being life) the only thing changing is getting more senior in my role, getting more life experience.

And yes people might get divorced (always a depressing topic), interestingly enough no one I know has gotten divorced. They seem pretty happy. Then again divorce is over represented in certain segments leading to the notion that everyone goes through it..

As for people being single by choice, why is that relevant? If that's the case then surely its a win for them?

I think my generation was possibly the most screwed by the recession, so I definitely wasn't in my prime in my mid twenties. I was broke, frustrated and miserable and ended up with quite bad depression and anxiety. Only now in my early thirties are things starting to come together professionally and personally. I have more money, which gives me more freedom, and more opportunities and options. Also in better physical shape, finally got rid of my acne and doing Crossfit, worked out which haircuts and make-up suit me. I'd say I probably am better looking than I was in my mid-twenties. I feel like I lost a lot of years trying to get on my feet, but that's the way it was. I can't change that now. 
If you're in your mid-late twenties, then of course you don't know many people getting divorced. I know for a fact that out of the married people I know, a lot of them are truly miserable. One guy was cheating on his wife while she was pregnant, another talks crap about his wife all the time, a friend keeps catching her husband sexting coworkers. It's easy when you're single to think married people are all happy and have it better. They don't. Being in a good relationship is amazing, being in a bad relationship is much worse than being single, IMO.
I didn't say it was relevant, it was just an observation. There's still this mentality that single people are to be pitied, when really, a lot of them seem genuinely happy and fulfilled.

irishrebe

Deleted User wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Well, the point is, I didn't spend my twenties dating bad boys, and now realised I want to settle down, which seems to be a common misconception about women in their thirties. I dated someone who was 'nice' (at the time) and it still didn't work out. Yes and yes, but my point was, I don't think there are any men who do those things for their female friends. Not even a lot of boyfriends would do them all!

Err... it's not a misconception... It might not be applicable to you... but many women find themselves single at 30(+), want to have children before it becomes dangerous, and rush to find someone for marriage.

As for the men not doing those things, you have a very different experience than I have. I learned to do all those things because I cared about the women I was with. Being able to do a foot massage was actually one of the best ways to change from the friends zone to actual dating. I know that my friends have done the same, because of comments during conversations (usually along the lines of a complaint where the action was done but no praise/appreciation for doing so) [Men can be stupid too]

No, I mean the misconception is that women spend their twenties having fun and being wild and then want to settle down in their thirties. That's rarely true, in my experience. I was in a very serious relationship with someone nice and stable all through my twenties, with every intention of getting married and settling down at 28-29. Didn't happen that way. And that's very common, in my experience.

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

No, I mean the misconception is that women spend their twenties having fun and being wild and then want to settle down in their thirties. That's rarely true, in my experience. I was in a very serious relationship with someone nice and stable all through my twenties, with every intention of getting married and settling down at 28-29. Didn't happen that way. And that's very common, in my experience.

Whereas in my experience, men/women tend to go through 2-3 'serious' relationships before they're 30 with a variety of dating/playing mixed between. Some people are 'lucky' and find someone young, and have a longer serious relationship.

Personally, I had my first girlfriend when I was 30.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Whereas in my experience, men/women tend to go through 2-3 'serious' relationships before they're 30 with a variety of dating/playing mixed between. Some people are 'lucky' and find someone young, and have a longer serious relationship.

That would be my general experience too. However I've also noted it varies in different groups of people. In one circle I knew back in the 90's pretty much all were "settled down" by their mid twenties, another circle did the serial dating in their twenties and then "settled down" in their 30's. I think there can be a very general thing of birds of a feather flock together going on. EG if you're in a committed longtermer in your twenties you tend to hang around with similar so that can be seen as the norm. If you're swinging from chandeliers every weekend you'll tend to hang around with similar there too.

dude_abided wrote: »

I'm not going to look as good in 10+ years as I do now. Pretty much a given...the girls at university have already started getting married. Time will take away the number of choices I have.

If you're still around university age then so long as you don't "let yourself go" you'll still look pretty good 10 years on. That goes double for men. I couldn't get arrested in my twenties. My thirties were a very different matter. Hell I was getting more interest in my forties than I did in my twenties.

Vela wrote: »

I get what you're saying here. When it comes to "nice guys" there's a thin line between relationship material and friend zone. I think it boils down to not being a pushover though. A nice guy who's confident with a mind of his own is attractive, but a complete doormat is not.

Aye V. I think way too many men confuse "nice guys" with "simpering(often sneaky) doormats". The I want to be your friend, so I can get the leg over dishonest types.

*generalisation alert* While men in their dating life have to deal with a fair number of flakey childwomen with emotions and actions as predictable as dysenteric bowel movements, women in their dating lives are dealing with a lot more dishonesty from a fair number of men in my humble.

irishrebe

Wibbs wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Whereas in my experience, men/women tend to go through 2-3 'serious' relationships before they're 30 with a variety of dating/playing mixed between. Some people are 'lucky' and find someone young, and have a longer serious relationship.

That would be my general experience too. However I've also noted it varies in different groups of people. In one circle I knew back in the 90's pretty much all were "settled down" by their mid twenties, another circle did the serial dating in their twenties and then "settled down" in their 30's. I think there can be a very general thing of birds of a feather flock together going on. EG if you're in a committed longtermer in your twenties you tend to hang around with similar so that can be seen as the norm. If you're swinging from chandeliers every weekend you'll tend to hang around with similar there too.

dude_abided wrote: »

I'm not going to look as good in 10+ years as I do now. Pretty much a given...the girls at university have already started getting married. Time will take away the number of choices I have.

If you're still around university age then so long as you don't "let yourself go" you'll still look pretty good 10 years on. That goes double for men. I couldn't get arrested in my twenties. My thirties were a very different matter. Hell I was getting more interest in my forties than I did in my twenties.

Vela wrote: »

I get what you're saying here. When it comes to "nice guys" there's a thin line between relationship material and friend zone. I think it boils down to not being a pushover though. A nice guy who's confident with a mind of his own is attractive, but a complete doormat is not.

Aye V. I think way too many men confuse "nice guys" with "simpering(often sneaky) doormats". The I want to be your friend, so I can get the leg over dishonest types.

*generalisation alert* While men in their dating life have to deal with a fair number of flakey childwomen with emotions and actions as predictable as dysenteric bowel movements, women in their dating lives are dealing with a lot more dishonesty from a fair number of men in my humble.

I agree. The 'NiceGuy' is a definite 'thing' and I have met many in my life. Just hanging around waiting for me to be single and then being butthurt when I didn't immediately start dating them. In some cases actively trying to come between me and my partner at the time. So manipulative and sneaky. 

As for looks, I'm a woman and I'd say I look better than ten years ago. There is still this widespread idea that women hit 30 and suddenly look crap. People always say I look 26, but really, I just think they don't know what 32 looks like. If you eat well, work out, use sunscreen etc. you look grand. Plus you've had time to work out what clothes and hair suit you and generally have more money to spend on your appearance.

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

As for looks, I'm a woman and I'd say I look better than ten years ago. There is still this widespread idea that women hit 30 and suddenly look crap. People always say I look 26, but really, I just think they don't know what 32 looks like. If you eat well, work out, use sunscreen etc. you look grand. Plus you've had time to work out what clothes and hair suit you and generally have more money to spend on your appearance.

The thing is that a lot of women "let themselves go" as they get older. TBH, so too do most men. Perhaps, they originally looked really good and didn't need to put in much effort, or simply gave up on looking after their appearance.

I think it's a lot harder for women though. There's far more required to keep in shape, take care of their skin, looking after their hair etc. And if they're willing to put in the "work" then they'll often look fantastic. However, in my experience, the majority of women here in Ireland don't put in that effort. Oh, they'll go through the motions, but the results are less than attractive.

For myself, as a man, I can get away with most things. As long as I dress reasonably well, groom my facial hair, and keep in shape, I can easily meet women interested in my appearance. As Wibbs, mentioned earlier, I'm far more successful in my 40s than I was in my 20s. I don't mean based on my experience, or personality. That's definitely a major improvement, but physically, I'm getting more interest from women.

The same can't be said for most of my female friends who were very attractive/successful women when they young, but have allowed themselves to slide. Oh, they'll go to the gym, but never really lose any of that extra weight. Their style of clothing doesn't tend to flatter their bodies, and generally, their hair isn't particularly flattering to them. I have spoken to them about this, but it's one of those things they're unwilling to commit themselves change... and it turns into "he should love my inner beauty more than my appearance", which is correct, but you really have to hold peoples attention for that to happen.

As we get older, it requires far more effort to remain desirable, and dating remains a fairly competitive area. In many ways, it becomes more competitive as we grow older (Although I'm told by older friends that it lessens as sex or sexual desire becomes unimportant)

Don't get me wrong though. I have met many women who do look incredible in their 30s and 40s. They put in the work in keeping slim, and if they're not slim, they choose fashion styles which suit them. It really comes down to how important it is to you to look good.

Vela

irishrebe wrote: »

I agree. The 'NiceGuy' is a definite 'thing' and I have met many in my life. Just hanging around waiting for me to be single and then being butthurt when I didn't immediately start dating them. In some cases actively trying to come between me and my partner at the time. So manipulative and sneaky. 

As for looks, I'm a woman and I'd say I look better than ten years ago. There is still this widespread idea that women hit 30 and suddenly look crap. People always say I look 26, but really, I just think they don't know what 32 looks like. If you eat well, work out, use sunscreen etc. you look grand. Plus you've had time to work out what clothes and hair suit you and generally have more money to spend on your appearance.

Ditto to all of this.

I definitely look better at 32 than I did at 22 and I think a lot of it is down to confidence. You tend to be more comfortable in your own skin as you get older, and that comes across in how you dress and how you interact.

Vela

Deleted User wrote: »

]
Don't get me wrong though. I have met many women who do look incredible in their 30s and 40s. They put in the work in keeping slim, and if they're not slim, they choose fashion styles which suit them. It really comes down to how important it is to you to look good.

Ahhhh just when we were becoming friends...:pac:

Staying "slim" doesn't equate to being attractive. I think it's important to be healthy and in decent enough shape, but I also know a lot of men who prefer both average-sized and heavier women (not just "curvy"). It's also worth saying that women with a bit of weight tend to age better in terms of wrinkles, facial volume, etc.

irishrebe

Deleted User wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

As for looks, I'm a woman and I'd say I look better than ten years ago. There is still this widespread idea that women hit 30 and suddenly look crap. People always say I look 26, but really, I just think they don't know what 32 looks like. If you eat well, work out, use sunscreen etc. you look grand. Plus you've had time to work out what clothes and hair suit you and generally have more money to spend on your appearance.

The thing is that a lot of women "let themselves go" as they get older. TBH, so too do most men. Perhaps, they originally looked really good and didn't need to put in much effort, or simply gave up on looking after their appearance.

I think it's a lot harder for women though. There's far more required to keep in shape, take care of their skin, looking after their hair etc. And if they're willing to put in the "work" then they'll often look fantastic. However, in my experience, the majority of women here in Ireland don't put in that effort. Oh, they'll go through the motions, but the results are less than attractive.

For myself, as a man, I can get away with most things. As long as I dress reasonably well, groom my facial hair, and keep in shape, I can easily meet women interested in my appearance. As Wibbs, mentioned earlier, I'm far more successful in my 40s than I was in my 20s. I don't mean based on my experience, or personality. That's definitely a major improvement, but physically, I'm getting more interest from women.

The same can't be said for most of my female friends who were very attractive/successful women when they young, but have allowed themselves to slide. Oh, they'll go to the gym, but never really lose any of that extra weight. Their style of clothing doesn't tend to flatter their bodies, and generally, their hair isn't particularly flattering to them. I have spoken to them about this, but it's one of those things they're unwilling to commit themselves change... and it turns into "he should love my inner beauty more than my appearance", which is correct, but you really have to hold peoples attention for that to happen.

As we get older, it requires far more effort to remain desirable, and dating remains a fairly competitive area. In many ways, it becomes more competitive as we grow older (Although I'm told by older friends that it lessens as sex or sexual desire becomes unimportant)

Don't get me wrong though. I have met many women who do look incredible in their 30s and 40s. They put in the work in keeping slim, and if they're not slim, they choose fashion styles which suit them. It really comes down to how important it is to you to look good.

It's not that much effort, though. Women of any age are expected to do more than men to look 'presentable' at formal events (i.e. wear make-up) and that's just a sad fact. I don't do any more than I did ten years ago. I just use better products now because I know what suits my skin. I cleanse and moisturise my face twice a day and use a retinol gel at night and that's it. I use only MAC make-up now because of the quality, but day to day I often don't wear any, or just eyeliner and a bit of tinted lip balm. I have long hair I get trimmed every few months and go to the gym every other day. I really don't do more than most men I know.

ginandtonicsky

Not sure where all these women that have "let themselves go" are? Im in dub, early 30s and most of my female friends and acquaintances are slim, work out, dress well, and are pretty attractive by most standards. Regardless of whether theyre single or married/committed.

ill sadly have to sound like a bit of a tit to make this point, but i get a hell of a lot of male attention now at 33, far more than i ever remember getting at 23. i get stared at and asked out a lot. my diet is terrible by most accounts, but im slim and i exercise a lot and have a fairly staple makeup collection that suits me and that rarely changes. im pretty well groomed overall, hair nails clothes etc. but its no big effort. it's just a bit more cop on after more than a decade of playing around with looks and making all the fashion / appearance faux pas of my 20s.

its like a parallel universe to live in sometimes, the way so many irish men talk about single women in their 30s like we're decrepit and 'left on the shelf' and running out of options so have no right to have standards or expectations! :pac: it feels a bit like sour grapes tbh, that's called basic self-esteem lads! ive been in 2 longterm relationships since i was 22, they just didnt work out and ive been through enormous heartbreak like everyone else. i haven't spent my whole adult life demanding that men be X and Y and passing up on "Nice Guys" and as a result have been left single and miserable in my ancient "past it" 30s!

irishrebe

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

Not sure where all these women that have "let themselves go" are? Im in dub, early 30s and most of my female friends and acquaintances are slim, work out, dress well, and are pretty attractive by most standards. Regardless of whether theyre single or married/committed.

ill sadly have to sound like a bit of a tit to make this point, but i get a hell of a lot of male attention now at 33, far more than i ever remember getting at 23. i get stared at and asked out a lot. my diet is terrible by most accounts, but im slim and i exercise a lot and have a fairly staple makeup collection that suits me and that rarely changes. im pretty well groomed overall, hair nails clothes etc. but its no big effort. it's just a bit more cop on after more than a decade of playing around with looks and making all the fashion / appearance faux pas of my 20s.

its like a parallel universe to live in sometimes, the way so many irish men talk about single women in their 30s like we're decrepit and left on the shelf and running out of options so have no right to have standards for themselves! :pac: ive been in 2 longterm relationships since i was 22, they just didnt work out and ive been through enormous heartbreak like everyone else. i haven't spent my whole adult life demanding that men be X and Y and as a result have been left single and miserable in my ancient "past it" 30s!

I think most of the time, it's a power play designed to make women feel crap about themselves. The whole redpill/incel mentality is based around the idea that women 'hit the wall' at 30 and become desperate and undesirable. That goes along with their narrative that attractive 20-something women are all partying it up and sleeping around with hot guys and then want to settle down in their 30s with someone wealthy and secure. As we know, it's total sexist claptrap. All the beautiful women I knew in my twenties were in long term relationships with nice men. Some lasted and some didn't. It seems that a lot of men don't seem to understand the fact that we are human beings with lives and problems and emotions. We don't just exist to look pretty and get a ring on our finger before we start showing any signs of ageing or putting on a few pounds. Plenty of us stayed in relationships a lot longer than we should have, trying to make it work. That, in my experience, is way more common than spending your twenties being wild and seeing loads of different men and/or deciding none of the men you meet are good enough.

Vela

Vela wrote: »

Ahhhh just when we were becoming friends...:pac:

Staying "slim" doesn't equate to being attractive. I think it's important to be healthy and in decent enough shape, but I also know a lot of men who prefer both average-sized and heavier women (not just "curvy"). It's also worth saying that women with a bit of weight tend to age better in terms of wrinkles, facial volume, etc.

I'm just speaking of my own opinion... Since I'm attracted to slim women, I'm biased. I'm not suggesting my viewpoint is the only one, and honestly, this thread shows it's definitely not the only one.

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

I think most of the time, it's a power play designed to make women feel crap about themselves. The whole redpill/incel mentality is based around the idea that women 'hit the wall' at 30 and become desperate and undesirable.

The redpill/incel attitude is mostly confined to the Internet and the US. It's not terribly common in Europe, except for a few bitter men.

The whole idea of women letting themselves go at 30 is older than I am. However, you're the one throwing in the desperate and undesirable, and other sexism related concepts as if they're obvious facts.

I'd reply to the rest but I've no desire to turn this thread into another discussion on feminism, sexism, etc. There's enough of them already on boards as it is.

Wibbs

Vela wrote: »

Staying "slim" doesn't equate to being attractive. I think it's important to be healthy and in decent enough shape, but I also know a lot of men who prefer both average-sized and heavier women (not just "curvy").

Very true. I'd even go so far as to say that in my experience anyway most Irish men prefer and seek out average to heavier(they're also boob obsessed. ). That can be a cultural thing too. EG what would be viewed as "average" in Ireland would be viewed as "heavy" in say Italy or Spain. Women's body sizes reflect that. Italian women of 20-30 are lighter than Irish women of that age on average. Later on in middle age they catch up and are slightly heavier on average. In Europe French women stay the most stable over their lives and the French haven't suffered the obesity epidemic of the rest of the western world. Spain which used to be low on the obesity index now have the fattest kids in the EU, so that's on the way to change.

Though as far as actual obesity goes Irish men outstrip Irish women, certainly much beyond 30. Irish men are the most obese in Europe(IIRC Irish women come in fifth). Get a mixed room of average 40 year olds and I'd be happy to bet a few quid there'd be more fat men than fat women. In my own life I'd know far more women who stayed around the same weight/shape at 40 that they were at 20 than men. Off the top of my head or the blokes I know I can only think of two who don't have "middle aged spread" and that set in not long after 30 years of age.

irishrebe

Deleted User wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

I think most of the time, it's a power play designed to make women feel crap about themselves. The whole redpill/incel mentality is based around the idea that women 'hit the wall' at 30 and become desperate and undesirable.

The redpill/incel attitude is mostly confined to the Internet and the US. It's not terribly common in Europe, except for a few bitter men.

The whole idea of women letting themselves go at 30 is older than I am. However, you're the one throwing in the desperate and undesirable, and other sexism related concepts as if they're obvious facts.

I'd reply to the rest but I've no desire to turn this thread into another discussion on feminism, sexism, etc. There's enough of them already on boards as it is.

It is, though. I've heard plenty of Irish men talking about women like this. You yourself are talking about women letting themselves go after 30. It just isn't my experience at all, and other women have said the same. The only 30-something women I know who have given up caring about their appearance are married with small children and more important things to care about, and they're not on the dating scene anyway.

Daisy78

ginandtonicsky wrote: »

its like a parallel universe to live in sometimes, the way so many irish men talk about single women in their 30s like we're decrepit and 'left on the shelf' and running out of options so have no right to have standards or expectations! :pac: it feels a bit like sour grapes tbh, that's called basic self-esteem lads! ive been in 2 longterm relationships since i was 22, they just didnt work out and ive been through enormous heartbreak like everyone else. i haven't spent my whole adult life demanding that men be X and Y and passing up on "Nice Guys" and as a result have been left single and miserable in my ancient "past it" 30s!

I've only seen this attitude to Irish women in their 30s here on boards never in real life. I don't get the hatred to be honest. I think everyone should make an effort with their appearance, men included. But if it's coming down to hairstyles, that's ridiculous, unless someone is sporting a dodgy eighties style perm I can't see how it would detract from a woman's appeal to such an extent that no man would to date her. There are standards and there are standards. Its impractical (and completely unreasonable) to expect women to be dolled up to the nines every single day. Well taken care of skin, hair, nails( as in clean) coupled with neat appearance in terms clothes should be the acceptable standard.

irishrebe

Wibbs wrote: »

Vela wrote: »

Staying "slim" doesn't equate to being attractive. I think it's important to be healthy and in decent enough shape, but I also know a lot of men who prefer both average-sized and heavier women (not just "curvy").

Very true. I'd even go so far as to say that in my experience anyway most Irish men prefer and seek out average to heavier(they're also boob obsessed. ). That can be a cultural thing too. EG what would be viewed as "average" in Ireland would be viewed as "heavy" in say Italy or Spain. Women's body sizes reflect that. Italian women of 20-30 are lighter than Irish women of that age on average. Later on in middle age they catch up and are slightly heavier on average. In Europe French women stay the most stable over their lives and the French haven't suffered the obesity epidemic of the rest of the western world. Spain which used to be low on the obesity index now have the fattest kids in the EU, so that's on the way to change.

Though as far as actual obesity goes Irish men outstrip Irish women, certainly much beyond 30. Irish men are the most obese in Europe(IIRC Irish women come in fifth). Get a mixed room of average 40 year olds and I'd be happy to bet a few quid there'd be more fat men than fat women. In my own life I'd know far more women who stayed around the same weight/shape at 40 that they were at 20 than men. Off the top of my head or the blokes I know I can only think of two who don't have "middle aged spread" and that set in not long after 30 years of age.

I think it's the drinking that does it. Even a lot of Irish men in their twenties have a beer belly and are a bit flabby and it gets more pronounced the older they get. You just can't get away with drinking 10 pints of lager on a regular basis and expect to look good. Same for women who drink a lot.

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

It is, though. I've heard plenty of Irish men talking about women like this. You yourself are talking about women letting themselves go after 30. It just isn't my experience at all, and other women have said the same. The only 30-something women I know who have given up caring about their appearance are married with small children and more important things to care about, and they're not on the dating scene anyway.

Yup. In my experience, many women let themselves go after 30. I've also said that many don't. Are you suggesting that I'm part of the red pill/incel movements?

It is interesting though. You're female, and I'm male... and we're talking about the attractiveness of women... to men... in a dating context, but your opinion (and other women you know) is more accurate than mine?

Now, if we were talking about the attractiveness of men to women...

Daisy78

Daisy78 wrote: »

I've only seen this attitude to Irish women in their 30s here on boards never in real life. I don't get the hatred to be honest. I think everyone should make an effort with their appearance, men included. But if it's coming down to hairstyles, that's ridiculous, unless someone is sporting a dodgy eighties style perm I can't see how it would detract from a woman's appeal to such an extent that no man would to date her. There are standards and there are standards. Its impractical (and completely unreasonable) to expect women to be dolled up to the nines every single day. Well taken care of skin, hair, nails( as in clean) coupled with neat appearance in terms clothes should be the acceptable standard.

What hatred?

It seems like we can't comment on women from our own perspective without it being blown out of proportion, and taken to extremes.

irishrebe

Deleted User wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

It is, though. I've heard plenty of Irish men talking about women like this. You yourself are talking about women letting themselves go after 30. It just isn't my experience at all, and other women have said the same. The only 30-something women I know who have given up caring about their appearance are married with small children and more important things to care about, and they're not on the dating scene anyway.

Yup. In my experience, many women let themselves go after 30. I've also said that many don't. Are you suggesting that I'm part of the red pill/incel movements?

It is interesting though. You're female, and I'm male... and we're talking about the attractiveness of women... to men... in a dating context, but your opinion (and other women you know) is more accurate than mine?

Now, if we were talking about the attractiveness of men to women...

I just don't see it. I'm bisexual. When I do use apps, I also see women's profiles, and those in their thirties are almost all slim and attractive. I know loads of thirty-something women from various groups and hobbies and again, the vast majority are very attractive. So what are you seeing that I'm not? I simply don't agree that even a significant percentage of women go downhill lookswise after 30, and certainly no more than men the same age.

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

I just don't see it. I'm bisexual. When I do use apps, I also see women's profiles, and those in their thirties are almost all slim and attractive. I know loads of thirty-something women from various groups and hobbies and again, the vast majority are very attractive. So what are you seeing that I'm not? I simply don't agree that even a significant percentage of women go downhill lookswise after 30, and certainly no more than men the same age.

Ahh... you're basing this on photos on dating apps? Ok. I'm talking about women I've met or seen around. I don't trust photos anymore considering the amount of software around to change appearance.

In any case, there's little need to agree on this. We all have our own opinions... just as other men might feel differently than I do about the attractiveness of these women.

Wibbs

irishrebe wrote: »

I know loads of thirty-something women from various groups and hobbies and again, the vast majority are very attractive. So what are you seeing that I'm not? I simply don't agree that even a significant percentage of women go downhill lookswise after 30, and certainly no more than men the same age.

While attractive is subjective I'd agree with you. Generally speaking unless some life stuff or illness kicks in women aren't falling off a cliff at 30, or 35 for that matter and as I said in my experience anyway it's more likely to be the men getting soft around the middle. I think, or hope the latter might change with much more gym and fitness uptake in younger men these days. Now it's just my humble but barring illnesses men have really no excuse for "letting themselves go".

irishrebe

Deleted User wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

I just don't see it. I'm bisexual. When I do use apps, I also see women's profiles, and those in their thirties are almost all slim and attractive. I know loads of thirty-something women from various groups and hobbies and again, the vast majority are very attractive. So what are you seeing that I'm not? I simply don't agree that even a significant percentage of women go downhill lookswise after 30, and certainly no more than men the same age.

Ahh... you're basing this on photos on dating apps? Ok. I'm talking about women I've met or seen around. I don't trust photos anymore considering the amount of software around to change appearance.

In any case, there's little need to agree on this. We all have our own opinions... just as other men might feel differently than I do about the attractiveness of these women.

No, I literally just said that I also meet tons of women in this age group. I don't live in a nuclear bunker, I go out and about quite a lot. We'll have to agree to disagree, because these sloppy overweight 30-somethings who have let themselves go....it's not something I recognise in my reality.

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

No, I literally just said that I also meet tons of women in this age group. I don't live in a nuclear bunker, I go out and about quite a lot. We'll have to agree to disagree, because these sloppy overweight 30-somethings who have let themselves go....it's not something I recognise in my reality.

No problem.

Daisy78

Deleted User wrote: »

Daisy78 wrote: »

I've only seen this attitude to Irish women in their 30s here on boards never in real life. I don't get the hatred to be honest. I think everyone should make an effort with their appearance, men included. But if it's coming down to hairstyles, that's ridiculous, unless someone is sporting a dodgy eighties style perm I can't see how it would detract from a woman's appeal to such an extent that no man would to date her. There are standards and there are standards. Its impractical (and completely unreasonable) to expect women to be dolled up to the nines every single day. Well taken care of skin, hair, nails( as in clean) coupled with neat appearance in terms clothes should be the acceptable standard.

What hatred?

It seems like we can't comment on women from our own perspective without it being blown out of proportion, and taken to extremes.

Really?? Women in their 30's being compared to rotten fruit? Not exactly flattering is it?! You see this type of attitude a lot on boards down through the years and I'm genuinely curious as to what gives rise to it. Unless there a lot of men out there with exceptional standards I don't think the idea has any basis in reality. Fair enough, if you expect women to look like one of the Kardashians or Emily whatsherface then yes you probably will find Irish women on the whole a bit lacking I guess. But to me that is an unreasonable standard. Any women I know in that age group makes a big effort with their appearance, at the very least making the best of they have in terms maintaining weight, grooming, etc If you were to go by some of the threads on here it would seem that simply isnt enough.

Wibbs

irishrebe wrote: »

I think it's the drinking that does it. Even a lot of Irish men in their twenties have a beer belly and are a bit flabby and it gets more pronounced the older they get. You just can't get away with drinking 10 pints of lager on a regular basis and expect to look good. Same for women who drink a lot.

TBH IR I'm not sure it's the gargle. Of the guys I know who have the oul belly they're not big drinkers by any stretch. It's the food for the most part. As I veer off topic

irishrebe

Daisy78 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Daisy78 wrote: »

I've only seen this attitude to Irish women in their 30s here on boards never in real life. I don't get the hatred to be honest. I think everyone should make an effort with their appearance, men included. But if it's coming down  to hairstyles, that's ridiculous, unless someone is sporting a dodgy eighties style perm I can't see how it would detract from a woman's appeal to such an extent that no man would to date her. There are standards and there are standards. Its impractical (and completely unreasonable) to expect women to be dolled up to the nines every single day. Well taken care of skin, hair, nails( as in clean) coupled with neat appearance in terms clothes should be the acceptable standard.

What hatred?

It seems like we can't comment on women from our own perspective without it being blown out of proportion, and taken to extremes.

Really?? Women in their 30's being compared to rotten fruit? Not exactly flattering is it?! You see this type of attitude a lot on boards down through the years and I'm genuinely curious as to what gives rise to it. Unless there a lot of men out there with exceptional standards I don't think the idea has any basis in reality. Fair enough, if you expect women to look like one of the Kardashians or Emily whatsherface then yes you probably will find Irish women on the whole a bit lacking I guess. But to me that is an unreasonable standard. Any women I know in that age group makes a big effort with their appearance, at the very least making the best of they have in terms maintaining weight, grooming, etc If you were to go by some of the threads on here it would seem that simply isnt enough.

What's really funny is that the worst offenders when it comes to criticising women's looks and bodies are generally themselves very average looking, balding and with beer bellies, sitting there tearing apart perfectly attractive women.

Daisy78

Daisy78 wrote: »

Really?? Women in their 30's being compared to rotten fruit? Not exactly flattering is it?!

Rotten fruit? What? where was that posted in this thread?

And while you go on further, you still haven't explained this "hatred". Having an opinion that many women don't look after their appearance isn't a sign of hatred... and I'd like to see you explain why it is.

Lastly, basing anything on posts from boards is a mistake. This board receives all manner of posts/posters, often with rather extreme views. I've seen horrible posts by female posters on boards but I'd never consider them to represent women in RL.

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

What's really funny is that the worst offenders when it comes to criticising women's looks and bodies are generally themselves very average looking, balding and with beer bellies, sitting there tearing apart perfectly attractive women.

And you would know that how? :rolleyes:

irishrebe

Deleted User wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

What's really funny is that the worst offenders when it comes to criticising women's looks and bodies are generally themselves very average looking, balding and with beer bellies, sitting there tearing apart perfectly attractive women.

And you would know that how? :rolleyes:

Because.....I live...in the world. I've worked with and met lots of men like that. Why do you seem to think I live in an underground bunker or something?

Daisy78

Deleted User wrote: »

Daisy78 wrote: »

Really?? Women in their 30's being compared to rotten fruit? Not exactly flattering is it?!

Rotten fruit? What? where was that posted in this thread?

And while you go on further, you still haven't explained this "hatred". Having an opinion that many women don't look after their appearance isn't a sign of hatred... and I'd like to see you explain why it is.

Lastly, basing anything on posts from boards is a mistake. This board receives all manner of posts/posters, often with rather extreme views. I've seen horrible posts by female posters on boards but I'd never consider them to represent women in RL.

You know perfectly well I'm referring to. Right I'm out, too nice a day for this aul ****e.

Daisy78

Daisy78 wrote: »

You know perfectly well I'm referring to. Right I'm out, too nice a day for this aul ****e.

Ahh... ok. You were talking ****e.

Don't get me wrong. The other things you commented on were fine... but you presented it in a manner far worse than it was.

irishrebe

irishrebe wrote: »

Because.....I live...in the world. I've worked with and met lots of men like that. Why do you seem to think I live in an underground bunker or something?

I took your comment to be associated to posters on this thread rather than people you knew. Fair enough.

givyjoe

irishrebe wrote: »

What's really funny is that the worst offenders when it comes to criticising women's looks and bodies are generally themselves very average looking, balding and with beer bellies, sitting there tearing apart perfectly attractive women.

Come off it, the worst offenders criticising women's looks are other women.

Vela

Wibbs wrote: »

TBH IR I'm not sure it's the gargle. Of the guys I know who have the oul belly they're not big drinkers by any stretch. It's the food for the most part. As I veer off topic

You know what though? Most women I know, myself included, couldn't give to sh1ts about a bit of a belly on a guy. If I was attracted to someone for other reasons (overall attraction, little quirks they have, personality traits...) then it wouldn't deter me at all.

Vela

Deleted User wrote: »

And you would know that how? :rolleyes:

Pics or GTFO.

Vela

Vela wrote: »

Pics or GTFO.

huh? You referring to her claim or my objection?

Vela

Deleted User wrote: »

huh? You referring to her claim or my objection?

I'm messing. Old school boards humour i guess... NVM:p

Debtocracy

It’s not the case that women in their 30s let themselves go or are substantially less attractive than in their 20s. But there’s no doubting that the sexual market dynamics shift after 30.

The first factor is a simple case of supply and demand. Guys from 18 to 45 will want to be in a relationship with a 25 year old women. Only guys from about 33 to 45 will want to be in a relationship with a 35 year old women. In comparison, girls in their 20s will be more willing get in a relationship with an older man.

Most men want children and starting a relationship with a women with a few years of fertility left puts too much pressure on them.

Good guys disappear at a faster rate after 30 than good women. Career driven men tend to be attractive to women and women try to nail these guys down with marriage. Career focused women on the other hand often tend to neglect relationships and may only start to get serious after they’ve achieved economic stability. So after 30 there might be like a 50:50 good/bad women split but a 30:70 good/bad men split.

Men’s peak physical attractiveness kicks in at about 28 and doesn’t tend to decline much for next decades. Women’s peak physical attractiveness is about 23 and tends to decline more quickly than men’s after 30.

Men get wealthier and more power as they age and this is a very attractive quality for women. Men aren’t as bothered about wealthy women and can feel a bit disempowered if their partner earns more.

I think it’s subjectively harder for women as they get used to a lot of attention is their 20s, build up certain standards, and then wonder why it’s so hard to find a man in their 30s even though they feel at their peak. My sense is that lots of women retain these standards and are willing to risk remaining permanently single than get with a guy they feel is below them. For men it’s the opposite, a kind of surprise they weren’t expecting. The nerdy guy who’s ignored in his 20s is seen as a sophisticated, professional man in his 30s.

irishrebe

Debtocracy wrote: »

It’s not the case that women in their 30s let themselves go or are substantially less attractive than in their 20s.  But there’s no doubting that the sexual market dynamics shift after 30.

The first factor is a simple case of supply and demand.  Guys from 18 to 45 will want to be in a relationship with a 25 year old women.  Only guys from about 33 to 45 will want to be in a relationship with a 35 year old women. In comparison, girls in their 20s will be more willing get in a relationship with an older man.

Most men want children and starting a relationship with a women with a few years of fertility left puts too much pressure on them.

Good guys disappear at a faster rate after 30 than good women.  Career driven men tend to be attractive to women and women try to nail these guys down with marriage.  Career focused women on the other hand often tend to neglect relationships and may only start to get serious after they’ve achieved economic stability.  So after 30 there might be like a 50:50 good/bad women split but a 30:70 good/bad men split.

Men’s peak physical attractiveness kicks in at about 28 and doesn’t tend to decline much for next decades. Women’s peak physical attractiveness is about 23 and tends to decline more quickly than men’s after 30.

Men get wealthier and more power as they age and this is a very attractive quality for women.  Men aren’t as bothered about wealthy women and can feel a bit disempowered if their partner earns more.

I think it’s subjectively harder for women as they get used to a lot of attention is their 20s, build up certain standards, and then wonder why it’s so hard to find a man in their 30s even though they feel at their peak. My sense is that lots of women retain these standards and are willing to risk remaining permanently single than get with a guy they feel is below them.  For men it’s the opposite, a kind of surprise they weren’t expecting. The nerdy guy who’s ignored in his 20s is seen as a sophisticated, professional man in his 30s.

Well, at 25 I was busy trying to survive and keep a roof over my head. I certainly didn't feel like I was in a position of social power or being chased by men. Your age ranges are also a bit bizarre. Most women prefer to date roughly in their own age range. I wouldn't have gone for an 18-year-old or a 45-year-old when I was 25. My boyfriend at the time was 2 years older than me, and everyone I knew was fairly similar. 
What's really weird about men's analysis of the situation is how clinical and cold it is, focusing on 'marketability', as if you were talking about cars or electrical goods. As if women have this short period in which they're desirable, during which time they must try their hardest to net the most eligible man they can. I've never felt the need to chase after a rich man or 'nail' anyone down. I simply date people I get on with, and live my life. I've survived a lot of hardship in my life and I'm just trying to do my best like everyone else, meeting people along the way. Your viewpoint is one I see a lot on the internet and it's so simplistic and reductive. I suppose those of us who didn't play this 'game', as you seem to see it, are doomed then?

Mister Vain

Deleted User wrote: »

What hatred?

It seems like we can't comment on women from our own perspective without it being blown out of proportion, and taken to extremes.

Welcome to AH, where even the most innocuous comments about women can be construed as misogyny. These threads are always the same.

Silentcorner

irishrebe wrote: »

Well, at 25 I was busy trying to survive and keep a roof over my head. I certainly didn't feel like I was in a position of social power or being chased by men. Your age ranges are also a bit bizarre. Most women prefer to date roughly in their own age range. I wouldn't have gone for an 18-year-old or a 45-year-old when I was 25. My boyfriend at the time was 2 years older than me, and everyone I knew was fairly similar. 
What's really weird about men's analysis of the situation is how clinical and cold it is, focusing on 'marketability', as if you were talking about cars or electrical goods. As if women have this short period in which they're desirable, during which time they must try their hardest to net the most eligible man they can. I've never felt the need to chase after a rich man or 'nail' anyone down. I simply date people I get on with, and live my life. I've survived a lot of hardship in my life and I'm just trying to do my best like everyone else, meeting people along the way. Your viewpoint is one I see a lot on the internet and it's so simplistic and reductive. I suppose those of us who didn't play this 'game', as you seem to see it, are doomed then?

Now, I can only speak from my own experience, but from a young mans perspective, my occupation was one of the first question a young woman would have asked me...certainly in my 20s I would have noticed that...when I lived in Cork , where I was from became relevant...it didn't get much more clinical or cold than that!!

irishrebe

Silentcorner wrote: »

irishrebe wrote: »

Well, at 25 I was busy trying to survive and keep a roof over my head. I certainly didn't feel like I was in a position of social power or being chased by men. Your age ranges are also a bit bizarre. Most women prefer to date roughly in their own age range. I wouldn't have gone for an 18-year-old or a 45-year-old when I was 25. My boyfriend at the time was 2 years older than me, and everyone I knew was fairly similar. 
What's really weird about men's analysis of the situation is how clinical and cold it is, focusing on 'marketability', as if you were talking about cars or electrical goods. As if women have this short period in which they're desirable, during which time they must try their hardest to net the most eligible man they can. I've never felt the need to chase after a rich man or 'nail' anyone down. I simply date people I get on with, and live my life. I've survived a lot of hardship in my life and I'm just trying to do my best like everyone else, meeting people along the way. Your viewpoint is one I see a lot on the internet and it's so simplistic and reductive. I suppose those of us who didn't play this 'game', as you seem to see it, are doomed then?

Now, I can only speak from my own experience, but from a young mans perspective, my occupation was one of the first question a young woman would have asked me...certainly in my 20s I would have noticed that...when I lived in Cork , where I was from became relevant...it didn't get much more clinical or cold than that!!

I can't speak for all women but I can say that I have never been concerned with that. When I met my long term ex (I was 23, he was 25) he was unemployed and living at home with his parents. I was more interested in finding someone who treated me well and made me laugh. My recent ex had no college education and earned a lot less than me. Maybe I'm just an idiot.

Wibbs

irishrebe wrote: »

What's really weird about men's analysis of the situation is how clinical and cold it is, focusing on 'marketability', as if you were talking about cars or electrical goods../...Your viewpoint is one I see a lot on the internet and it's so simplistic and reductive.

The male mind has a tendency toward clinical and looking for patterns within systems, often with a side order of obsession in looking for same. The more "nerdy" the man the more likely this is in play. It's a tremendous positive in some areas such as the sciences, but yes can be a negative in other areas.

Icemancometh

dude_abided wrote: »

Daisy78 wrote: »

Hmm care to elaborate? Was it purely for superficial reasons? I have plenty of lovely single female friends in their late thirties/early forties who struggle to get dates with decent fellas and when they do meet someone it seems to fizzle out through to lack of interest on his side or in some cases ghosting. Beginning to think all the decent fellas are hiding out on an island somewhere...

If you go to the market at the start of the day, you get lovely fruit and veg. You have a great selection.

By 4pm you're picking up what's left (there are of course hidden gems..). What's been handled too many times, maybe slightly bruised with time etc.

It's not that the men (or woman) are hiding, but probably because they are already picked up...

Hate to speak for someone else, but in the context of the analogy, I thought the fruit referred to men not women.

Wibbs

irishrebe wrote: »

I can't speak for all women but I can say that I have never been concerned with that. When I met my long term ex (I was 23, he was 25) he was unemployed and living at home with his parents. I was more interested in finding someone who treated me well and made me laugh. My recent ex had no college education and earned a lot less than me. Maybe I'm just an idiot.

You're most certainly not. I found it can vary from social circle to social circle and across cultures too.

Vela

irishrebe wrote: »

I can't speak for all women but I can say that I have never been concerned with that. .

+1.