Manchester Utd. Vs. Arsenal 16:30 : Arsene`s final furlong

Whatsisname

Oranage2 wrote: »

2-1 total embarrassment from united, boring football, long balls to Fellaini, total joke, where's the entertainment factor, boreball they should rename old Trafford

Hard to believe a grown adult posted this.

bucketybuck

Business Cat wrote: »

How many of the saves has he made this season that any other half way competent keeper wouldn't save?

Of course he has made almost otherworldly saves a few times this season but I've watched pretty much every game this year and I can count on the fingers of 1 hand where I could say he won us the points.

I honestly believe that if United had lost De Gea last summer and played the season out with Romero in goals that they would have finished second, or at the very least finished top four.

He is brilliant, but his influence can be overstated. As long as he was replaced with somebody competent United would have had a similar season.

Whatsisname wrote: »

Hard to believe a grown adult posted this.

Why? Its hardly his first time.

WoollyRedHat

adox wrote: »

Also top keeper makes top saves.

It’s just nonsense. Like, if you didn’t score so many goals and concede so little you’d be ****e.

It’s are certainly a work in progress and personally I’m amazed that they may finish second but that does put into perspective somewhat the kareative about them and the teams around them. Liverpool and Tottenham are fantastic and Utd are struggling and in crisis. Yet look at that league table.

Also to put it in perspective, De Gea has had to make twice as many saves as Ederson this seaon with 108 saves in total. Lloris who has played similiar amount of games has only had to make 68'

Whatsisname

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why? Its hardly his first time.

I'd be more familiar with a different teams collection of WUMs.

niallo27

Can we all just not get along and support Liverpool on Wednesday night in a champions league semi final.

Lithium93_

niallo27 wrote: »

Can we all just not get along and support Liverpool on Wednesday night in a champions league semi final.

And the computer says...



Sorry..

TitianGerm

Business Cat wrote: »

I wish you would post more often, you never fail to make me smile.

Who does he support? I've only seen him post the odd time.

Liam McPoyle

TitianGerm wrote: »

Who does he support? I've only seen him post the odd time.

He's allegedly an Arsenal fan and he has the uncanny knack of appearing when United have a bad result and seagulling the thread.

WoollyRedHat

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Also to put it in perspective, De Gea has had to make twice as many saves as Ederson this seaon with 108 saves in total. Lloris who has played similiar amount of games has only had to make 68'

United play deeper then either of those team's and most of the shots they conced are from longer distance, DeGea bar the Arsenal game isnt making loads of outstanding saves in games. When city or spurs give up chances they tend to be one's with a higher % chance of being scored as they do there defending higher up the pitch pressing the opposition.

You put nothing in perspective just using stats to make a point you want to make one which most united fans who watch us regularly will disagree with

TitianGerm

Business Cat wrote: »

He's allegedly an Arsenal fan and he has the uncanny knack of appearing when United have a bad result and seagulling the thread.

But United win today?

Liam McPoyle

TitianGerm wrote: »

But United win today?

As the result didn't go his way he had to come up with another plan of attack so had a go at the performance instead.

WoollyRedHat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

United play deeper then either of those team's and most of the shots they conced are from longer distance, DeGea bar the Arsenal game isnt making loads of outstanding saves in games. When city or spurs give up chances they tend to be one's with a higher % chance of being scored as they do there defending higher up the pitch pressing the opposition.

You put nothing in perspective just using stats to make a point you want to make one which most united fans who watch us regularly will disagree with

He`s still in top 5 of most saves in whole league,and above keepers who play for teams that also sit deeper. There's a reason that he`s in line to win your best player of the year. Fans of Man United can downplay De Gea`s importance if they want but it doesn't take away from the fact. I wonder would Liverpool like to do similiar from Salah and their progress.

limnam

fyfe79 wrote: »

Why are you bringing up Liverpool to an Arsenal fan in a Utd vs Arsenal match thread?

I've only ever seen him drooling over Liverpool.

Considering that'd be fairly odd for an Arsenal fan to do. I assumed he was a Liverpool fan, obviously.

WoollyRedHat

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

He`s still in top 5 of most saves in whole league,and above keepers who play for teams that also sit deeper. There's a reason that he`s in line to win your best player of the year. Fans of Man United can downplay De Gea`s importance if they want but it doesn't take away from the fact. I wonder would Liverpool like to do similiar from Salah and their progress.

No one is downplaying his importance he is class and makes outstanding saves, others are getting carried away with the xg stat that did the rounds earlier in the season. When team's take lots of shots from long range a goalkeeper will make more saves though. Also it's pointless comparing United to team's lower in the league who sit deep you think the opposition approach these games similarly.

Facts also gave me an lol. Cheers

Also I'm seeing degea as 9th in most saves in the league 9/14 who have played 30 plus games, (nope 5th your right there)

StringerBell

De gea didn't win our player of the year last year, and I'd wager he won't win it this year either.

WoollyRedHat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No one is downplaying his importance he is class and makes outstanding saves, others are getting carried away with the xg stat that did the rounds earlier in the season. When team's take lots of shots from long range a goalkeeper will make more saves though. Also it's pointless comparing United to team's lower in the league who sit deep you think the opposition approach these games similarly.

Facts also gave me an lol. Cheers



Also I'm seeing degea as 9th in most saves in the league 9/14 who have played 30 plus games

Why.. are you saying that the 108 saves is false?

Who to compare him with then? Himself from previous seasons.. fine, he has had to save on average more per game than in his last five seasons with MU. You can lol but that is the truth. Are teams taking more long range shots that have resulted in his average saves per game going up to over 3.3 from last years 2.11 when you finished 7th? I doubt it.. why continue this strategy when teams know how hard De Gea is to beat at long range. So it points to defensive faults for the back 4.

Then there are the games that De Gea won because of world class saves , his 89th minute save against Aguero, which ensured you took 3 pts from the Ethiad. Against Crystal Palace, kept out Benteke when it was 2-2 with around 13 mins left. As mentioned before against Arsenal at home, where he made 14 saves that day, we should have several goals but didn't because of De Gea and De Gea alone. Against Swansea, he made a number of saves which most other keepers wouldn't have made to give you the 2-0 win. Or what about Liverpool away last October, that great leg save..the game finished 0-0. That's several examples where De Gea has won points for Man Utd.

Outside the league he made some great saves in first leg vs. Sevilla to keep you in it.. in what waa otherwise an insipid performance by your outfield players.

According to Opta`s "Goals Prevented" (start of March) De Gea has prevented 13 goals and that has probably gone up since then.

Would Romero have made that much of a difference? Doubtful.

Then you look at goals for in PL for team and it`s 67, less than City, Liverpool and.. joint with us. One more than Tottenham.

Mr.Nice Guy

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Why.. are you saying that the 108 saves is false?

Who to compare him with then? Himself from previous seasons.. fine, he has had to save on average more per game than in his last five seasons with MU. You can lol but that is the truth. Are teams taking more long range shots that have resulted in his average saves per game going up to over 3.3 from last years 2.11 when you finished 7th? I doubt it.. why continue this strategy when teams know how hard De Gea is to beat at long range. So it points to defensive faults for the back 4.

When teams can't beat a deep block they often resort to shots from long range. It's a sign of frustration.

You conclude there must have been defensive faults yet in a recent Guardian article for their "ineptitude index" they found United's defence to be the most competent of all the sides. See the outfield defensive incompetence section...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/27/the-premier-league-teams-ineptitude-index-2017-18

Previous seasons you could make the case that De Gea was carrying United but I don't think that's fair this season. The two deadliest threats in the league are Salah and Kane and Mourinho's tactics and United's defending kept these two players quiet in a way no other team has managed.

wandatowell

Lithium93_ wrote: »

And Arsenal still haven't claimed an away point this year..

A season that ends in Wenger "resigning" is a good year.

Lithium93_

wandatowell wrote: »

A season that ends in Wenger "resigning" is a good year.

Enjoy it while while he's still in charge, no matter how torturous. Because if & when Arsenal slump like United did after Fergie retired, and the new guy doesn't get off to a flyer, you'll be wishing Wenger (despite his ineptitude the last several years) was back running the show.

You don't know what you've got until it's gone basically..

WoollyRedHat

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

When teams can't beat a deep block they often resort to shots from long range. It's a sign of frustration.

You conclude there must have been defensive faults yet in a recent Guardian article for their "ineptitude index" they found United's defence to be the most competent of all the sides. See the outfield defensive incompetence section...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/27/the-premier-league-teams-ineptitude-index-2017-18

Previous seasons you could make the case that De Gea was carrying United but I don't think that's fair this season. The two deadliest threats in the league are Salah and Kane and Mourinho's tactics and United's defending kept these two players quiet in a way no other team has managed.

O.k fair enough but I still count 9 instances that led to a goal because of outfield errors. And then the fact that it's connected to goals means it fails to properly account for lax/ sloppy defending due to De Gea`s high save ratio. If it highlighted how many times the team lost the ball or was dispossessed in and around the box that would provide a more accurate reading of how competent the defence excluding De Gea were.

On average they let 11 shots per game.. even if it is opposition frurstrated that still means there is enough space to create that shot in the first place .

StringerBell

Arsenal have already slumped which is something that should worry their fans. New manager hitting the ground running taking over from a guy 20+seasons in charge is no guarantee

WoollyRedHat

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

O.k fair enough but I still count 9 instances that led to a goal because of outfield errors. And then the fact that it's connected to goals means it fails to properly account for lax/ sloppy defending due to De Gea`s high save ratio. If it highlighted how many times the team lost the ball or was dispossessed in and around the box that would provide a more accurate reading of how competent the defence excluding De Gea were.

On average they let 11 shots per game.. even if it is opposition frurstrated that still means there is enough space to create that shot in the first place .

Your essentially saying DeGea saves more shots then other goalkeepers so he is the reason united are in 2nd place, without any break down of the distance of the shots or the likelihood of them been scored. Your extapulating an answer you want without taking into consideration my first point or how the United team setup defensively or how when a goal or 2 up Jose's team's sit back even further and allow players space in those distance shooting areas,

I've watched most united games this season and I can tell you he is not influencing our results like he did in the 3 years were he won player of the year. He is still class and makes unbelievable saves but your drawing poor conclusions from the stats

Minderbinder

StringerBell wrote: »

Arsenal have already slumped which is something that should worry their fans. New manager hitting the ground running taking over from a guy 20+seasons in charge is no guarantee

I’m sure Eddie will do fine.

Quazzie

Serious question, and please keep the bitter.gif out of this because I fully expected to lose yesterday. But, are United fans happy with Mourinho and the "style" of football he plays? Ye were up against the most inexperienced Arsenal team in years, and it took Fellaini coming on, and United changing everything into pump long balls into him to win it. Surely that's not "the United way".

I'm not denying he gets results better than most in the game, but it can't be pleasurable to watch that week in week out.

pjohnson

I'm happy watching United win games. I'd take an "ugly" win over a "pretty" defeat 100% of the time.

Trigger

Quazzie wrote: »

Serious question, and please keep the bitter.gif out of this because I fully expected to lose yesterday. But, are United fans happy with Mourinho and the "style" of football he plays? Ye were up against the most inexperienced Arsenal team in years, and it took Fellaini coming on, and United changing everything into pump long balls into him to win it. Surely that's not "the United way".

I'm not denying he gets results better than most in the game, but it can't be pleasurable to watch that week in week out.

“The United way” is media driven bull****... Fergie always stuck a big man up front, usually CB’s too when trying to win a game in the last 10 or so mins.. what’s the difference?

The_Kew_Tour

Wenger got more appreciation from United fans, then the last 12 years from Arsenal fans.

Anyone want to take a guess on how many times has that Sky one-liner about Utd's style of football has been regurgitated throughout the season?

Oh and before I forget...Good thread, would read again

Will I Am Not

I quite enjoy when United beat Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs or City and opposition fans come along to moan about ‘The United Way’

PhlegmyMoses

Rival fans pretending they give a **** about the United way. The same fans who were happy playing conservatively and winning with George Graham, Rafa Benitez, Mourinho himself or Brian Horton or whatever hump City had managing them before Pep turned them into artisans who can only subsist by watching bespoke, hand-crafted, gourmet tiki-taka with rice.

Nobody actually cares about the United style and when said rival fans had more conservative managers like Rafa, Graham and Mourinho, they ****ing worshipped them because they won them things.

Cantona's Collars

"One nil to to the Arsenal"

Oh how easily they forget.

Quazzie

So 7 replies and only 1 managed to actually answer the question put to them. Must be a touchy subject. I guess the rest are taking it from Mourinho's book of "Deflect at all costs".

Anyways, enjoy your 3 points lads. I'm sure it means more than anything to resort to stoke-like football against Arsenal reserves, as long as you get the result.

/unfollows

Will I Am Not

Quazzie wrote: »

So 7 replies and only 1 managed to actually answer the question put to them. Must be a touchy subject. I guess the rest are taking it from Mourinho's book of "Deflect at all costs".

Anyways, enjoy your 3 points lads. I'm sure it means more than anything to resort to stoke-like football against Arsenal reserves, as long as you get the result.

/unfollows

I know you said you didn’t want the lemon gif but...

PhlegmyMoses

Quazzie wrote: »

So 7 replies and only 1 managed to actually answer the question put to them. Must be a touchy subject. I guess the rest are taking it from Mourinho's book of "Deflect at all costs".

Anyways, enjoy your 3 points lads. I'm sure it means more than anything to resort to stoke-like football against Arsenal reserves, as long as you get the result.

/unfollows

It does answer your question though. Same as everybody else, you're happy when winning, less so when you're not. If you're in 6th after a couple of seasons under a manager playing nice stuff but not seeing any valuable improvement, you don't want that manager anymore. If you're in 2nd, have won a couple of trophies and maybe one more soon, you're relatively happy even if you aren't blowing things away. Ironically, it's the best football we've played since SAF and the outcome is that we are in our highest league position since and we are competing for trophies again. A similar progression through the summer and into next season and we will be similarly happy.

Funnily enough, I think that United fans have been the most divided on this style than any other club who had a conservative manager. Doesn't take long for people to blow-up when a few results go badly, but that is to be expected when you play a results driven game like Mourinho.

If you actually want to know what United fans think about this, read their thread. Many different opinions.

Cantona's Collars

Did any Arsenal fans mention that United never got out of third gear,let alone second and still beat Arsenal.
At the end of the day, that's all that counts.

WoollyRedHat

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Did any Arsenal fans mention that United never got out of third gear,let alone second and still beat Arsenal.
At the end of the day, that's all that counts.

It was our youngest side since August 2011. We had a lot of academy prospects that put in a good account of themselves and Arsenal fans are happy with that.

pudzey101

did any united fans mention arsenal are more worried about a European cup rather than 3 points

WoollyRedHat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your essentially saying DeGea saves more shots then other goalkeepers so he is the reason united are in 2nd place, without any break down of the distance of the shots or the likelihood of them been scored. Your extapulating an answer you want without taking into consideration my first point or how the United team setup defensively or how when a goal or 2 up Jose's team's sit back even further and allow players space in those distance shooting areas,

I've watched most united games this season and I can tell you he is not influencing our results like he did in the 3 years were he won player of the year. He is still class and makes unbelievable saves but your drawing poor conclusions from the stats

In fairness I shared numerous instances where De Gea did just that and then Opta stats suggest that he`s prevented 13 goals.

WoollyRedHat

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

In fairness I shared numerous instances where De Gea did just that and then Opta stats suggest that he`s prevented 13 goals.

2 instances the Arsenal game United went up 2-0 early and invited pressure on they also had a player sent off in that game as well so it is going to skew the stats somewhat.

Also that goal prevented stat just adds up the number of shots on goal and gives every shot some value (if im not mistaken) so if you concede more shots its going to have a higher number. There is no value given to goalkeepers who play a sweeper system well it'll just tot up points for shots saved and as I said not every team defends deep. Its still a highly flawed stat imo

Liam McPoyle

Quazzie wrote: »

So 7 replies and only 1 managed to actually answer the question put to them. Must be a touchy subject. I guess the rest are taking it from Mourinho's book of "Deflect at all costs".

Anyways, enjoy your 3 points lads. I'm sure it means more than anything to resort to stoke-like football against Arsenal reserves, as long as you get the result.

/unfollows

Football is a results business with performances being secondary. We are second in the league and on course to finish with our highest points total since SAF left. We are also in the FA Cup final. We also won 2 trophies last year.

What people are conveniently completely disregarding is that we have also by times this season played some super attacking football. Yes, there have been some dreadful performances too and the manner of the champions league exit was nothing short of a disgrace but it's clear that Jose isn't currently happy with his squad at the moment. Despite the money spent it was in poor condition when he took over. Of his 8 signings to date only Mikhi was a complete let down. Everyone else he has signed will be mainstays in the team for the next number of years (obviously aside from Ibra) and this summer I've no doubt the weaker areas such as full back and central midfield will be addressed.

If we win the cup and finish second then I'll be pretty happy with the season over all.

If we finish second but win nothing I will be disappointed but content as it shows progression in the league.

Next year is the big year for JM.

Nothing less than a proper tilt at the title is acceptable. If we end 10+ points off the pace then questions will be asked.

In summation, the team is moving in the right direction and with that I am happy. The performances will come with a settled squad.

At the end of the day trophies are all that matters, flashy football with nothing at the end of it is simply a case of fur coat and no knickers.

Give me honours over glamour any day of the week.

limnam

pudzey101 wrote: »

did any united fans mention arsenal are more worried about a European cup rather than 3 points

A nothing cup apparently.

Why worry about it.

Will I Am Not

pudzey101 wrote: »

did any united fans mention arsenal are more worried about a European cup rather than 3 points

I think we all gathered that from the team selection. Didn’t feel the need to point it out.
United beat Arsenal’s first team at the Emirates and their second team at Old Trafford. What exactly are Arsenal fans trying to get at?

pjohnson

pudzey101 wrote: »

did any united fans mention arsenal are more worried about a European cup rather than 3 points

Sure none of ye have heard of that cup

citytillidie

pjohnson wrote: »

You should watch hockey. Ball never allowed of the ground then

Ball is allowed off the ground just has to be in a non dangerous manner :pac:

*Ulster Hockey certified umpire