Buying a flat in Dublin - pitfalls?

Gothenburg

I recently moved to Ireland, and paying a very high rent for a shared apartment in Dublin 2. Looking at apartment prices and mortgage rates (and stamp duty, solicitor costs, management fees, insurance etc), buying sounds like a better deal than renting, assuming we dont have another property crash soon. So I think Ill buy a one or two bed apartment in central Dublin (not a fan of long commutes).

The only thing is, Im new to Ireland, and never had a mortgage in my life. So Im looking for help on how to go on about to buy an apartment in Dublin.

What are the most obvious pitfalls to avoid? Do I need to find a solicitor and surveyor? How do I find good ones? Should I check with all the main banks which one will give me the best mortgage rate/terms (only talked to AIB so far)? Any good websites or books to read up on buying property in Ireland? Are there any non-obvious costs associated with buying or owning an apartment in Dublin that I should be aware of?

Thanks!

ELM327

1 - Dont do it.
2 - if you really must, then don't buy a one bed.

Samuel T. Cogley

Apartments are seeing massive rises in prices so make sure you're getting in early if you're doing it at all. Surveyors are less of an issue with apartments, fire regs are the main things to be checked. Of course shop around for the best mortgage.

Solicitors - shop around and DONT go for the cheapest go for one in the middle of the pack. Cheap solicitors are usually too busy to provide a quality service. An extra €100 or so will pay dividends in the service your receive. Better yet get a recommendation.

The main pitfalls for apartments in Dublin are usually exorbitant management fees and poor sound insulation.

Edit: Typically flat = converted house - Don't buy one of these. Apartment = purpose built.

NIMAN

Its a massive decision to make, are you first of all sure that you are staying here?

As you say, the biggest concern would be another property crash. At present it looks like there's only one way property is going, and thats up rapidly, but that also happened in 2007 and we all know the mess that left behind.

Also, are you single? A 1-bed apartment might suit you, but if you have a partner, possibly with kids to come in the future, bear in mind how useless a 1-bed will be. Even a 2-bed may not suit your life in 10yr time for example.

As for never having a mortgage before, well you'll find the banks here are very strict when it comes to giving out mortgages. You'll have to be able to show that you are in a steady, well paying job for a number of years, and that you are also a good saver with a decent deposit (absolute minimum will be 10%).

If you satisfy those requirements, then it will just be a matter of applying for one after meeting with your mortgage advisor of the local lender, and seeing how it goes.

Wish you best of luck, but don't enter into the decision lightly. Many people are still struggling after overpaying for property a decade ago. If you rent, you don't get hurt in a property crash.

Gothenburg

Thanks for the answers!

Ok, hadnt thought about fire regulations. How does that work, what needs to be checked? And does one still need a surveyor for an apartment?

And yeah single, but that may change! And thought that I can sell or rent it out, if I need something bigger or if I leave Ireland. I am planning on staying for a while though.

Samuel T. Cogley

Just get a surveyor who knows apartments and has a background with fire regs. Google/recommendations.

Being a Landlord is a major pain in the neck, but I'd say if you're going to be in situ 5 years plus a decent 2 bed under around 250K is a reasonable investment.

Eric Cartman

the prices of 2 bed apartments in Dublin in anywhere thats not a heroin infested slum are already insane, if the government makes any shift in allowing higher buildings or lowers the insane standards required for apartments here then you will be in negative equity.

Samuel T. Cogley

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the prices of 2 bed apartments in Dublin in anywhere thats not a heroin infested slum are already insane, if the government makes any shift in allowing higher buildings or lowers the insane standards required for apartments here then you will be in negative equity.

Overstating it somewhat. Although once you're into the 300K bracket you're better off in a settled ex corporation estate and a 3 bed house IMHO. DART/LUAS links mean a similar commute than walking from somewhere like Smithfield/D8.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Overstating it somewhat. Although once you're into the 300K bracket you're better off in a settled ex corporation estate and a 3 bed house IMHO. DART/LUAS links mean a similar commute than walking from somewhere like Smithfield/D8.

There are apartments along the dart line.

Samuel T. Cogley

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

There are apartments along the dart line.

Under 300K? Never looked Southside but Northside there are very few IIRC. Certainly prior to Howth Junction which is where you'd want to be for an easy commute.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Under 300K? Never looked Southside but Northside there are very few IIRC. Certainly prior to Howth Junction which is where you'd want to be for an easy commute.

Well you are adding to your statement now. Originally it was at a cost of plus 300k a house is better, and the commute is ok because of the dart. Or luas.

This assumes that all houses plus 300k are close to a dart line. Or a luas.

In fact if you want to live close to either at a reasonable price it’s probably going to be an apartment.

In general I wouldn’t recommend people without children to live in a housing estate. Appartmebts work, though.

Samuel T. Cogley

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Well you are adding to your statement now. Originally it was at a cost of plus 300k a house is better, and the commute is ok because of the dart. Or luas.

This assumes that all houses plus 300k are close to a dart line. Or a luas.

In fact if you want to live close to either at a reasonable price it’s probably going to be an apartment.

In general I wouldn’t recommend people without children to live in a housing estate. Appartmebts work, though.

Not really adding to the statement at all. If you've 300K to spend I'd look in Kilbarrack and alike for a house over an apartment. If you can get an apartment on the DART/LUAS under 250K that's definitely an option. A house is a better bet IMHO investment-wise.

hmmm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Not really adding to the statement at all. If you've 300K to spend I'd look in Kilbarrack and alike for a house over an apartment. If you can get an apartment on the DART/LUAS under 250K that's definitely an option. A house is a better bet IMHO investment-wise.

Above 250/300k you start getting into the better built apartments in better areas. Personally I'd prefer a smaller apartment in a nicer area, than a larger house in a less nice area. Apartment living is relatively new to Irish people, and the legacy of the Celtic Tiger rubbish will take a bit of time to clear.

But yeah to add to the above - I wouldn't be in a rush to buy in Ireland if I wasn't sure I wanted to live here long term.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

Don't buy an apartment, if you can buy a house. Too many variables outside your control.

LirW

The OP is a single buyer and should work out what their income can buy them. Also do you have 10% of the price as a deposit? As a first time buyer you need to raise 10% and the legal fees yourself, if you buy for 300k it's 30k plus approx. 5k for solicitor, land registry, stamp duty.
The maximum you can borrow is 3.5x your gross income, so if you earn 50k pa you can borrow up to 175k plus 10% of deposit you need to have yourself. That's what you can afford.

I think it's important to point out that the asking price in the ad is not the sales price and sub 300k the sales price can be a good bit higher, 20% isn't unheard of.
Can only urge the OP to go to open viewings and follow up on it to get a feeling.

Then everything that is extraordinary cheap is cheap for a reason, could be the area, issues with the property and might be not mortgage-able and a few other things.

If an apartment is fine or not depends on yourself, for a lot of Irish people apartment living is a no-no because a lot of them aren't well laid out. I'd advise you against becoming a landlord, the taxation on rental income is high and you have very little rights to protect your property if you have a bad tenant in it.
Also every apartment has annual service charges and they can be quite high, depending on the block.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Some of the attitudes here go a good way to explaining our huge urban sprawl for such a smallish city. If Irish people refuse to buy apartments long term then we can just keep increasing outside the M50. No other option.

LirW

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Some of the attitudes here go a good way to explaining our huge urban sprawl for such a smallish city. If Irish people refuse to buy apartments long term then we can just keep increasing outside the M50. No other option.

I'm all pro apartment living, I grew up in apartments and it's fine really but there are a lot of really shoddy apartments out there and the legacy of the celtic tiger is certainly a bad one.
If there would be a large scale development of well-built family friendly apartments with storage space (for example in a communal basement area with individual units) the view might change fast enough.

Eric Cartman

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Some of the attitudes here go a good way to explaining our huge urban sprawl for such a smallish city. If Irish people refuse to buy apartments long term then we can just keep increasing outside the M50. No other option.

When Irish builders start building apartments with decent soundproofing, adequate parking and storage and management companies start looking after buildings properly then perhaps.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Eric Cartman wrote: »

When Irish builders start building apartments with decent soundproofing, adequate parking and storage and management companies start looking after buildings properly then perhaps.

For the former i agree in general, although my appartment is totally silent. By adequate parking do you mean basements? Lots of new spaces have them. By storage do you mean internal or something in an attic or basement?

LirW

By storage do you mean internal or something in an attic or basement?

Both, plus layout. Lots of apartments have tiny bedrooms and very little internal storage. Kitchen/dining spaces can be tiny. I've visited a couple with 2 kids in a pretty posh development in Goatstown, the apartment, while not too bad, was absolutely microscopic.
If you make the rooms a bit bigger and have acceptable living area sizes they would work so well for families. There's a reason why people extend their ex-corpo houses everywhere.
As to external storage, that would be great too but I'd be quite worried regarding break ins and it would have to be adequately protected from intruders.
And all of that without ridiculous management charges.

Caranica

Management charges don't have to be ridiculous and management companies don't have to be useless. If owners care enough to get involved and be responsible for their investment things can be run well and reasonably. OP if you do buy an apartment, the best advice I can give you I'd to get involved with your management company. I've been a director for years because we have too many apathetic owners and the place would have gone to ruin were it not for the active directors.

I would however avoid apartments with lifts or fountains or electric gates as they can be massive expenses for a management company.

Gothenburg

Caranica wrote: »

Management charges don't have to be ridiculous and management companies don't have to be useless. If owners care enough to get involved and be responsible for their investment things can be run well and reasonably. OP if you do buy an apartment, the best advice I can give you I'd to get involved with your management company. I've been a director for years because we have too many apathetic owners and the place would have gone to ruin were it not for the active directors.

I would however avoid apartments with lifts or fountains or electric gates as they can be massive expenses for a management company.

Hadnt thought about that, thanks! And buyer s agents and mortgage brokers, are they a waste of money assuming one has the time to search for properties and go to banks oneself?

Samuel T. Cogley

Gothenburg wrote: »

Hadnt thought about that, thanks! And buyer s agents and mortgage brokers, are they a waste of money assuming one has the time to search for properties and go to banks oneself?

Yes unless you're self employed or there is something unusual about your application. Some banks don't even deal with brokers.