General Emulation Discussion

Inviere

Very impressive little 'under the tv' Ryzen powered mini PC

megaten

Does anyone know any comprehensive retroach guides for PC including recommended shaders for what systems?. I think I might try and actually figure out how to use it since on my PC before I waste my money buying another one of the retro handhelds.

Inviere

megaten wrote: »

Does anyone know any comprehensive retroach guides for PC including recommended shaders for what systems?. I think I might try and actually figure out how to use it since on my PC before I waste my money buying another one of the retro handhelds.

I was toying with the idea of making a guide for the forum here, from start to finish with RetroArch running under LaunchBox etc. The limitations of 15 images per post kinda put a stop to it, as it would have got pretty messy and would have been hard to put together with a nice table of contents etc.

I'll summarise it right down for you:

1) Install RetroArch to your PC & set it for full screen.
2) Install two or three 'cores' from within RetroArch to start with. These are essentially dedicated emulators, some bespoke for RetroArch, some are ported. So the cores do the emulating, RetroArch itself is a frontend for the cores.
3) Set up a nice easy game directory, and create dedicated folders for your roms (e.g. Sega MegaDrive, Sega Master System, Sega Saturn, etc).
4) Ensure you can run the games then in RetroArch
5) Some systems need a bios file placed in the RetroArch 'system' folder, so ensure any cores you want have the required bios files placed there.
6) Come back here when you're at this stage

o1s1n

What do you reckon is the best way to set up CRT filters?

I have it running pretty well but it doesn't look as nice filter wise as that old MAME HLSL filter setup, so there's probably a lot more I can do!

Steve X2

I do go a bit mental with the shaders in RetroArch. I such a fussy fecker when it comes to the visuals I'll spend hours on it.
Then get a new monitor and have to start again

Inviere

o1s1n wrote: »

What do you reckon is the best way to set up CRT filters?

I have it running pretty well but it doesn't look as nice filter wise as that old MAME HLSL filter setup, so there's probably a lot more I can do!

When you're running a game, say a Snes game...press F1 to go into the RA Menu. Then down near the bottom of the menu you'll see Shaders. Go into there, click load shader preset, shaders_glsl, crt, and choose one of your liking (I recommend crt-hyllian.glsl).

Depending on your screen, it should make a dramatic improvement (some sizes/resolutions give differing results). If you have a screen which is happy with a preset, happy days...click save, and you've four options then:

Save as global preset - don't choose this. It will apply the shader to EVERY system and game that RetroArch runs.
Save as core preset - this means any game run by the chosen core, will have the above shader applied to it.
Save as content directory preset - applies the shader to every rom loaded from the same folder the current rom is loaded from (extremely handy for cores that run consoles AND handhelds, ie, Genesis Plus GX runs GameGear and Megadrive and you'll want different shaders for handheld systems).
Save Game Preset - applies the shader to the current game only.

^^ So whatever your needs are will determine which saving option you choose.

There's one other option, "save shader preset as"....this will create a new shader based on any customisation you've done to an existing one, so you don't overwrite the preset. You'll see in the shader menu you can change the amount of passes the shader does, you can chainlink different shaders together, change shader parameters etc. It can easily turn into a hobby unto itself, so try find a shader preset you like and make as few changes as possible if you absolutely have to make changes at all.

Steve X2 wrote: »

I do go a bit mental with the shaders in RetroArch. I such a fussy fecker when it comes to the visuals I'll spend hours on it.
Then get a new monitor and have to start again

Rabbit hole doesn't even begin to describe the possibilities... Thankfully the tv screen I use absolutely loves crt-hylian, so I'm more than happy with using the simple preset. I tried the same preset on the smaller screen a while back, and the scanlines weren't evenly spread etc so I'm glad to be back on the bigger screen.

o1s1n

Ah fair play, thanks a million for that, really appreciate it.

Yeah I didn't realise the menu was only accessible once a game was fired up. I think if I'd been left with infinite time I'd never have figured that out myself :eek:

Inviere

o1s1n wrote: »

Ah fair play, thanks a million for that, really appreciate it.

Yeah I didn't realise the menu was only accessible once a game was fired up. I think if I'd been left with infinite time I'd never have figured that out myself :eek:

It's a weird quirk of RA actually yeah...obviously once you realise it it's no an issue but as you say, no amount of menu searching would ever reveal it...you have to be running a game!

Steve X2

Inviere wrote: »

Rabbit hole doesn't even begin to describe the possibilities... Thankfully the tv screen I use absolutely loves crt-hylian, so I'm more than happy with using the simple preset. I tried the same preset on the smaller screen a while back, and the scanlines weren't evenly spread etc so I'm glad to be back on the bigger screen.

I went for custom profiles. Basically stealing stuff from the defaults and other people online and tweaking them to give me the look I want(no need to fully re-invent the wheel:)). In the end I only really use 2 shader profiles, one for the 240p consoles(BVM/PVM look, but a bit less blurry) and another one for the consoles I upscale to HD/4k(DC, PSX, N64, GC, Wii etc).

You do need a reasonable graphics card when you really get into it. I tried my profiles on an older Nvidia GTX 1050 and it crawled along, but on the RTX 2080 ti its butter smooth.

Inviere

^^ I don't use RetroArch for GameCube or Wii - standalone Dolphin for those, tied into LaunchBox so its seamless. I also don't use ANY shaders for PSX, N64 or DC...with the internal upscaling available on those cores I prefer a high resolution & clean look to them

You do need a half decent card to run some of the higher end shaders alright, crt-royale comes to mind (it does several passes). Your 2080Ti is probably laughing at RetroArch though

Steve X2

Inviere wrote: »

^^ I don't use RetroArch for GameCube or Wii - standalone Dolphin for those, tied into LaunchBox so its seamless. I also don't use ANY shaders for PSX, N64 or DC...with the internal upscaling available on those cores I prefer a high resolution & clean look to them

You do need a half decent card to run some of the higher end shaders alright, crt-royale comes to mind (it does several passes). Your 2080Ti is probably laughing at RetroArch though

You're right on the Gamecube and Wii, i dont use RetroArch either(not sure what I was on about ).
I thought my 2080ti was the business until i started playing the Flight Sim 2020 beta! That game certainly puts your GPU in its place.

CiDeRmAn

So, if I am going to buy something cheap for emulation duties, what sort of PC should I be looking for?

I have never dipped my toes into anything more sophisticated than Playstation emulation, so bear that in mind!

Inviere

Steve X2 wrote: »

I thought my 2080ti was the business until i started playing the Flight Sim 2020 beta! That game certainly puts your GPU in its place.

A visual monster of a game that! Watched the Digital Foundry video on it a while back, hugely impressive.

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

So, if I am going to buy something cheap for emulation duties, what sort of PC should I be looking for?

I have never dipped my toes into anything more sophisticated than Playstation emulation, so bear that in mind!

For PS1 and below, you really don't need much at all. For a few bells & whistles like shaders, run-ahead, etc....that's where a small bit of extra power would do you. You don't really need proper horsepower up until PS2, PS3, etc

What are you looking for specificaly, a box under the tv? A pc at a desk? Something for your cab?

Steve X2

Inviere wrote: »

A visual monster of a game that! Watched the Digital Foundry video on it a while back, hugely impressive.

Yes it looks great. I'm currently in the process of building a new PC with the intention of sticking whatever Nvidia come out with on Sept 1st. I used to be a big flight sim fan, and FS 2020 has pulled me back in big time.

CiDeRmAn

Inviere wrote: »

For PS1 and below, you really don't need much at all. For a few bells & whistles like shaders, run-ahead, etc....that's where a small bit of extra power would do you. You don't really need proper horsepower up until PS2, PS3, etc

What are you looking for specificaly, a box under the tv? A pc at a desk? Something for your cab?

I don't think it'll go in the cab, at least not yet, might be nice to run some of the Wii/GC/DC stuff on the TV

Hyzepher

Might be interesting to some. Pinball emulation has come a long way. This table came out today

Doge

The new Ashens video gave me several laughs!
Relevant to general emulation also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8GCC2jabmk

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I don't think it'll go in the cab, at least not yet, might be nice to run some of the Wii/GC/DC stuff on the TV

You've a LOT of options Cidey. Just keep in mind that the more you spend, the better the hardware, the better the emulation experience will be (run-ahead, shaders, speed/framerates, upscaling, etc).

If I were you, I'd look at the second hand market for a basic pc. With a relatively basic cpu, few gigs of ram, and a low end gpu....you'll be able to run most stuff with a few bells & whistles. Check out ETA Prime's youtube channel, he covers this type of thing often enough. Here's one example of a cheap as chips, hide in a cabinet pc that handles itself very well (runs a dedicated emulation OS, so no windows overhead....the downside being it's best for emulating 2d systems.) For a few quid more, the more systems open up to you like PS2, GC, Wii, etc

CiDeRmAn

Inviere wrote: »

You've a LOT of options Cidey. Just keep in mind that the more you spend, the better the hardware, the better the emulation experience will be (run-ahead, shaders, speed/framerates, upscaling, etc).

If I were you, I'd look at the second hand market for a basic pc. With a relatively basic cpu, few gigs of ram, and a low end gpu....you'll be able to run most stuff with a few bells & whistles. Check out ETA Prime's youtube channel, he covers this type of thing often enough. Here's one example of a cheap as chips, hide in a cabinet pc that handles itself very well (runs a dedicated emulation OS, so no windows overhead....the downside being it's best for emulating 2d systems.) For a few quid more, the more systems open up to you like PS2, GC, Wii, etc

I know this is a lazy approach, but could you point me at a couple of examples on Adverts?

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I know this is a lazy approach, but could you point me at a couple of examples on Adverts?

What kind of budget are you planning?

CiDeRmAn

Only a max of €300 I'm afraid, less if I can get away with it

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Only a max of €300 I'm afraid, less if I can get away with it

That budget should be enough to get something quite decent. Leave it with me a while

CiDeRmAn

Inviere wrote: »

That budget should be enough to get something quite decent. Leave it with me a while

Thanks, much appreciated

Hellrazer

Ciderman I was considering putting a pc up on Adverts that I had built as a emulation machine.
I5 3570 - 8gb Ram. Think its a r9 270x with 3 gb vram.It`ll even run COD Warzone @ around 60 fps @1080p.
Its in a coolermaster elite 130 mini itx case - nice small factor.
Windows 10 pro on a 128gb ssd and I think theres a 500 gb drive in it aswell.

If you were interested pop me a pm.Id let it go for around the 200 mark.

Inviere

Hellrazer wrote: »

Ciderman I was considering putting a pc up on Adverts that I had built as a emulation machine.
I5 3570 - 8gb Ram. Think its a r9 270x with 3 gb vram.It`ll even run COD Warzone @ around 60 fps @1080p.
Its in a coolermaster elite 130 mini itx case - nice small factor.
Windows 10 pro on a 128gb ssd and I think theres a 500 gb drive in it aswell.

If you were interested pop me a pm.Id let it go for around the 200 mark.

Cidey that's a fair offer I think. Especially being itx, it'll be more living room friendly. That should happily run most of what you would ever want.

Nice upgrades for the above would be to get rid of the i5 3570 & drop in an i7 3770 for €65 from CeX
Double the RAM for €30 (check existing ram specs first)
Upgrade the GPU to a 6GB GTX1060 to handle practically anything emulation related
Finally drop in a bigger storage drive to house all of your legally obtained roms, say about €60 for 2TB or so

So yeah, the above is a great starting point and the few upgrades above would make mean it'd wipe the floor with any Pi or single board effort. The gpu upgrade could wait, Nvidia are about to release their Ampere line which should mean the GTX cards will drop in price further...but the cpu one is defintely worth doing for so cheap, double the threads and a nice clock speed boost too.

Then your software journey can begin...

CiDeRmAn

So, thanks to Hellrazer, I'm now the proud owner of a decent emu PC...
Now to figure out what to do with it.
Bit and bobs on there, I have really tried it yet but it does boot straight to Windows.
So, I think I will need to have it boot, instead, to a front end from where I can run, full-screen, the various emulators and Steam, all things going well.
I'm hoping for as seamless an experience as I can, once it's all set up...
Wish me luck!

80s Synth Pop

If you have a CRT, that r9 graphics card you have there can output the perfect image if you use the calamity drivers and an appropriate emulator that supports "super resolutions". You can even have one port on the card outputting 1080p to a normal PC monitor and the VGA/DVI-I port outputting to the CRT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dDAT4fsTXY

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

So, thanks to Hellrazer, I'm now the proud owner of a decent emu PC...
Now to figure out what to do with it.
Bit and bobs on there, I have really tried it yet but it does boot straight to Windows.
So, I think I will need to have it boot, instead, to a front end from where I can run, full-screen, the various emulators and Steam, all things going well.
I'm hoping for as seamless an experience as I can, once it's all set up...
Wish me luck!

I'd advise sticking to Windows Cidey. Emulation of the systems you want (GameCube, Wii, etc) tend to not have ideal RetroArch cores, and instead, only really shine through their standalone emulators. Those 'emulation os's' like Retropie etc are great for the retro systems, but when you want to dip your toes into more demanding emulation like Wii, PS2, etc...you'd be severely limited by them.

However, that's not to say you can't achieve what you want through Windows. Once you have RetroArch up & running, and the standalone emulators you want up & running also, you can tie everything into LaunchBox (visual frontend), which you can autostart on Windows boot. Ideally in time you'd pay for the premium licence for LaunchBox, which gives you access to BigBox (which is a true bigscreen frontend with controller support, so you'll not need a keyboard at all.)

A lot of the videos you'll see to demonstrate BigBox mode have overly flashy/garish themes going on, which isn't to my taste. I like clean, neat themes that show you what you need to see & that's it. Have a look at Big Couch, it's a theme you just download and apply in BigBox - that's my theme of choice - https://forums.launchbox-app.com/topic/34450-bigcouch-theme/

So you'd have W10 booting in a few seconds from SSD, BigBox set to start automatically, then you can browse any systems you wish to set up, start games, exit games, view game manuals through the pause menu, etc, all with a single controller.

RetroArch has been the victim of some e-vandalism over the last few days, so their servers & core downloading features are down at the min.

CiDeRmAn

For the time being I'm going to stick to Wii/GC, PS2 and DC emulation, along with PS and the like.
I have a squintillion ways to emulate the 8/16 bit consoles and don't really need another.
Also, as far as I can see 00's arcade hardware is well emulated via Windows and I would love to see them on this machine of mine.

I was looking at launchbox and would be happy to pay the premium, I have a wireless Xbox 1 controller adapter incoming and want to run everything I can from that, aside from the initial set-up and inevitable tweaking.

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

For the time being I'm going to stick to Wii/GC, PS2 and DC emulation, along with PS and the like.

Depending on the hardware & the upgrades, you'll have zero issues with those systems. In fact you'll be able to push the resolution up higher than original hardware & see GameCube games looking like they should be on a Wii U!

I have a squintillion ways to emulate the 8/16 bit consoles and don't really need another.

You say that, and indeed no doubts about it, but when you see something like a Snes emulated properly using a cycle accurate core, run ahead reducing latency, and proper quality shaders running...you'll be very hard pressed to bother with a Raspberry Pi again Plus, having it EVERYTHING running from one box is super convenient if you just want a quick play, and takes very little work to set up (retroarch core download, set shader, set runahead, import games into lauchbox, configure launchbox for snes etc...job done).

I was looking at launchbox and would be happy to pay the premium, I have a wireless Xbox 1 controller adapter incoming and want to run everything I can from that, aside from the initial set-up and inevitable tweaking.

I mean it when I say it, but it truly is well, well worth the price. If you pair it with an Emumovies account, Launchbox will scrape all the art, manuals, videos for your games as you import them...then the BigBox themes just 'know' where everything is....you can change themes like changing themes on a phone, there's zero messing about.

They usually always run a sale on Black Friday where the license is reduced. I bought a year that way, to try out BigBox properly. The following year I bought a lifetime license on Black Friday again....I almost feel like I scammed them...

The Last Bandit

Yep, buy the Launchbox license and get a 1 year Emumovies subscription

I'm using Dualshock 3 controllers with my setup and works perfectly. Use scptoolkit to initially setup/pair the controllers and you never have to touch it again.

CiDeRmAn

Sounds like I have my work cut out, but it'll all be worth it!
It's like I'm going back to the wild old emulation days of the late 90's, just with less disk spanning!

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Sounds like I have my work cut out, but it'll all be worth it!

Your Xbox One controller will work natively with windows if using the official adapter, so there'll be no setup there. RetroArch auto-configs the controller for most systems too, so again no setup. You'll need to do a once off config with Dolphin, etc...but it's a quick & easy job.

The biggest/most time consuming job is just setting up RetroArch for each core. Again, a one off though. LaunchBox is quite straight forward to set up and use too.

It's like I'm going back to the wild old emulation days of the late 90's, just with less disk spanning!

Zsnes ftw (not really!)

CiDeRmAn

I'm not using Retroarch at present, so with that in mind, what is Saturn and PS2 emualtion like these days?
And will my system be up to the task?

KeRbDoG

The Last Bandit wrote: »

Yep, buy the Launchbox license and get a 1 year Emumovies subscription

I'm using Dualshock 3 controllers with my setup and works perfectly. Use scptoolkit to initially setup/pair the controllers and you never have to touch it again.

https://www.launchbox-app.com/author
Added bonus, the author/owner of the company "...is adamant that everything that he and the company does should be done for the Lord"
Creates a whole new level of 'if this is for someones god, this has to be easy to setup right?'

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I'm not using Retroarch at present, so with that in mind, what is Saturn and PS2 emualtion like these days?
And will my system be up to the task?

RetroArch will handle your Saturn emulation through the Beetle Saturn core, & it's come on leaps and bounds over the years. While not 'perfect', it's gotten bloody good & is 'perfect' in the sense that you'll be able to play many games without noticing any issues.

PS2 will need a dedicated emulator, PCSX2. Don't bother with a RetroArch core for this system. Again if you have the horses, you'll get amazing results with many many games having no issues these days. You can upscale the resolution too very easily, to give the visuals a vast improvement over stock resolutions.

If you go for that i7 upgrade I posted above, and bump the gpu up a small bit, this is the level you'll be looking at:

CiDeRmAn

KeRbDoG wrote: »

https://www.launchbox-app.com/author
Added bonus, the author/owner of the company "...is adamant that everything that he and the company does should be done for the Lord"
Creates a whole new level of 'if this is for someones god, this has to be easy to setup right?'

As William S. Burroughs said "Never do business with a religious son-of-a-bitch. His word ain't worth a sh1t -- not with the Good Lord telling him how to fcuk you on the deal"

CiDeRmAn

Retroarch... So... Where is the Gamecube core at?
It's not in the list of downloadable cores...
My head hurts

Doge

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Retroarch... So... Where is the Gamecube core at?
It's not in the list of downloadable cores...
My head hurts

You'll be downloading the mighty Dolphin Emulator for that.

It emulates GameCube and Wii.

https://dolphin-emu.org/

CiDeRmAn

Doge wrote: »

You'll be downloading the mighty Dolphin Emulator for that.

It emulates GameCube and Wii.

https://dolphin-emu.org/

I have it, but does it integrate into Retroarch and, if so, how?

Doge

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I have it, but does it integrate into Retroarch and, if so, how?

It doesn't. :pac:

You will need to setup a launcher next to start games via Retroarch or via Dolphin.

I'll let inviere guide you on that journey.

CiDeRmAn

Doge wrote: »

It doesn't. :pac:

You will need to setup a launcher next to start games via Retroarch or via Dolphin.

I'll let inviere guide you on that journey.

FFS!

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I have it, but does it integrate into Retroarch and, if so, how?

As Doge says, don't bother with anything but Dolphin for GameCube and Wii.

Dolphin will NOT integrate into RetroArch for you, but it WILL integrate into LaunchBox....along will ALL your other emulators. That's kinda the final step in getting your setup complete though, so here's a small checklist for you to take care of:

• 1) On your storage drive (not your c: drive, set up a folder called Emulation. Within that, set up folders called Emulators and Launchbox.
• 2) Install RetroArch (portable version, NOT the installer) to the Emulators folder, in its own folder called RetroArch.
• 3) Set up a few basic cores, get things working, get shaders working, get run-ahead working - spend time on this because it'll make or break the experience. Come back for help with any aspect of it, it's simple when you know how kinda thing.
• 4) Set up a more advanced core like perhaps some of the keyboard systems like PC9801, C64, etc - when you get to this step ask for help from me, I've got some configs I can share with you to make pc's keyboard function as the emulated keyboard, so you won't get conflicts like taking screenshots when trying to start a game etc. (You can skip this step if you wish for now, and come back to it later).
• 5) Set up your dedicated emulators like Dolphin, PCSX2, etc. Get them working perfectly, and set them up in the Emulators folder, within their own folders.
• 6) Install LaunchBox (free version for now)....and come back to me from there, you're almost done, but the final most important step is this one...it ties the whole setup together seamlessly.

Hellrazer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I'm not using Retroarch at present, so with that in mind, what is Saturn and PS2 emualtion like these days?
And will my system be up to the task?

You shouldn't really need the I7 upgrade - just my opinion having run Saturn and PS2 emulators on it.. It handled PS2 and Saturn at full speed- I didn't leave the emulators on it because they were on a 2tb drive that was failing...and eventually did fail and I lost a lot of stuff.

The gpu is equivalent to a 1050 ti or 1060 non ti version. It has 4gb video ram - well enough for everything you want.

Inviere

Hellrazer wrote: »

You shouldn't really need the I7 upgrade...

For €60 it's a no brainer. Double the threads, clock speed boost, and just a far more capable cpu. Yes most emulators don't rely on multi-threading too much, but it does open up options like Rpcs3, Cemu, Yuzu, etc to Ciderman....who mightn't be interested now, but could be down the line. For €60 the clock speed boost alone is worth it, and that definitely will help with emulation. Running say PCSX2 at stock resolution, versus upscaling things to 1080p, requires more horses than you think.

Factor in then the native overheads from Windows, RetroArch running, LaunchBox/BigBox running, shaders being rendered, run-ahead reducing latency, standalone emulators running....it all adds up. Before long, 4 cores (and 4 threads) are being pushed very hard, and the experience suffers. A hyperthreaded i7, with 8 threads, pushes the bottleneck way down the road. The more cores/threads you have, and the faster they're running, means a smoother & more enjoyable experience.

The gpu is equivalent to a 1050 ti or 1060 non ti version. It has 4gb video ram - well enough for everything you want.

AMD GPU's aren't always friendly when it comes to emulation. A 1050Ti or 1060 would be far more capable in emulation terms, but agreed that it's a solid starting point. It should handle 90% of everything you need Ciderman. You'd really only need to upgrade it for high end stuff I reckon.

CiDeRmAn

Happily, Dolphin is already there and works just fine.
I'm going for Bigbox soon enough, as I want to tie everything into the Xbox One controller and forget about the keyboard, in so far as is possible.

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Happily, Dolphin is already there and works just fine.

Have you set up controls, fullscreen, etc?
Have you tried increasing the internal resolution of GameCube & Wii Games?
How about looking into a usb sensor bar combined with a bluetooth adapter to allow real Wiimotes to work with Dolphin? Or better yet, a real Wii Bluetooth chip circuit to USB (I've done this, works amazingly well in terms of latency, Wiimote speaker functions, etc)
Have you installed the Wii System Menu? (Make sure to install the US version)
Have you created a virtual SD card to install Wiiware content onto?

^^ then you can consider Dolphin set up and ready for LaunchBox (Ok I'm joking obviously, but the above tips will again, greatly increase the appeal and experience of the emulation you'll be presented with)

CiDeRmAn

You're scaring me now ...

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

You're scaring me now ...

All optional, just do the first two

CiDeRmAn

I did, it's just a pain to have to leave Retroarch and open Dolphin.
Still, it all works, played a spot of FZero GX again and it's pretty smooth and flawless.
I might fiddle with the resolution next time.