General Emulation Discussion

Inviere

Yeah it's a pain now agreed, but it makes things a LOT less painful when you're putting it all together under LaunchBox, and you've very very little set up to do then because you've already done 90% of it.

Must do's for Dolphin:

1) Make sure you're running the dev versions, and NOT the latest stable (which is ancient by now). Grab the latest once here - https://dolphin-emu.org/download/

2) In the Graphics tab, set the following options:
Backend - OpenGL
Aspect Ratio - Auto
V-Sync - ON
Use Fullscreen - ON

Shader Compilation - Asynchronous (Ubershaders) (bottom left of the four options)
Compile shaders before starting - ON

Then change tab to the Enhancements tab:
Internal Resolution - Set to 3X (default for 1080p screen)
Antialiasing - 4x
Post processing - OFF
Leave everything else as default, apply & save.

3) In the Config tab, set the following options:
Interface Options:
Confirm on Stop - OFF
Always hide mouse cursor - ON

Paths Options:
Point Dolphin to your GC & Wii games locations

^^ That more or less covers the recommended settings, and all that's left to do is config your controls. I'd recommend picking up a Wii U GameCube controller adapter, as Dolphin has native support for it baked in. You can then use a real GameCube controller...but an Xbox One controller will work fine too.

That's dolphin done then Load up F-Zero GX and when you've picked your jaw up from the floor, come back & let us know!

CiDeRmAn

And now I can't wait to get home from work to try it out!

I don't really see my self faffing about with Wiimotes again, so GC emulation is perfectly fine.

Also, 3DO stuff works great too, had a blast through Need for Speed (All blessings be upon it) and it runs wonderfully.

Steve X2

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

And now I can't wait to get home from work to try it out!

I don't really see my self faffing about with Wiimotes again, so GC emulation is perfectly fine.

Also, 3DO stuff works great too, had a blast through Need for Speed (All blessings be upon it) and it runs wonderfully.

Have you had a look at the 3DO emulation settings in retroarch? A few overclocking and upscaling options in there worth checking out(mostly helps 3D rather than 2D games).

CiDeRmAn

Steve X2 wrote: »

Have you had a look at the 3DO emulation settings in retroarch? A few overclocking and upscaling options in there worth checking out(mostly helps 3D rather than 2D games).

Not as yet, just got it working with the bios files in the right place, and then off to the races, literally!

Return Fire I'll be trying out later on, love that bloody game.
And, I don't know if I will have the time to invest in Star Control II, but I wish I did!

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

And now I can't wait to get home from work to try it out!

I don't really see my self faffing about with Wiimotes again, so GC emulation is perfectly fine.

Also, 3DO stuff works great too, had a blast through Need for Speed (All blessings be upon it) and it runs wonderfully.

Let me know how you get on with Dolphin. Then I'll talk about Shaders with you for your RetroArch cores....makes a HUGE difference.

Doge

Came across a Nintendo Switch emulator last night called yuzu iirc. It's definitely in early days but these emulator Devs don't f*ck around!

Inviere

Doge wrote: »

Came across a Nintendo Switch emulator last night called yuzu iirc. It's definitely in early days but these emulator Devs don't f*ck around!

You only seeing it now? They've made savage progress over the last ~18 months. Check out their Patreon & you'll see why

Inviere

How are you getting on Cidey, have you had a chance to try the above Dolphin settings?

CiDeRmAn

Inviere wrote: »

How are you getting on Cidey, have you had a chance to try the above Dolphin settings?

I tried Metroid Prime Trilogy and it was a chugging mess at least 50% of the time.
Which is disappointing.
Probably a settings issue, but still.
I briefly tried WiiU emulation...
Ain't doing that again!

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I tried Metroid Prime Trilogy and it was a chugging mess at least 50% of the time.
Which is disappointing.
Probably a settings issue, but still.
I briefly tried WiiU emulation...
Ain't doing that again!

Hmm, something not right there Cidey. Did you use the settings I posted above? Try switching the video backend from opengl to vulkan and see if it improves.

Inviere

Also what's the exact version of Dolphin you're using? You definitely have the horsepower for Dolphin, so just a matter of figuring out what the issue is

CiDeRmAn

Inviere wrote: »

Also what's the exact version of Dolphin you're using? You definitely have the horsepower for Dolphin, so just a matter of figuring out what the issue is

I'll have another root this evening.
I'm trying to track down all of the rom folders for everything, so I have to assign a core to every individual file or should it do so automatically?

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I'll have another root this evening.
I'm trying to track down all of the rom folders for everything, so I have to assign a core to every individual file or should it do so automatically?

Assuming you're using the storage drive for all this, my advice is the following setup:

1) A folder called Emulators at the root of the drive
2) A folder called Roms at the root of the drive.
3) A folder called LaunchBox at the root of the drive.
4) OPTIONAL - A folder called Rom Archive (this will house full rom sets as they're nearly easier to get than individual roms these days. That way you can just grab a game from the romset to drop into your normal Roms folder at a later date

Give RetroArch, Dolphin, etc, their own folders in the Emulators folder.
Give all your roms, e.g. Sega MegaDrive, Sega Saturn, etc, their own folders in the Roms folder.

In terms of RetroArch cores...all you need to do is get RetroArch up and running. From there on, LaunchBox will take care of the rest (ie, running certain roms with certain cores...LaunchBox will handle this). Install Launchbox (free version for now) into the LaunchBox folder, and we'll get to that soon. Let's try sort out your Dolphin issues, then we'll move to RetroArch (which won't take long), and finally onto LaunchBox (unless you specifically want to do it differently?)

But firstly Cidey...spend a few mins doing some housekeeping:

1) Make sure the version of Windows on the machine is up to date
2) Make sure you install the latest graphics card drivers for the GPU
3) Make sure the latest DirectX is installed
4) Uninstall ANY & ALL unneeded software from the machine too
5) Make sure nothing is running in the background that doesn't need to be

^^ the above should only take a few mins, but will ensure you're moving in the right direction and will rule out potential issues.

CiDeRmAn

I just tried the recommended settings for Dolphin and it's still frame dropping, as well as a flickering band across the top of the screen.
More testing later on

Inviere

What version Dolphin Cidey?

CiDeRmAn

Inviere wrote: »

What version Dolphin Cidey?

I have no idea, and now I'm in work...

More reporting later...

Tom Mann Centuria

Have got myself a Shield TV, any decent guides for setting that up for emulation? I don't think it's performance is up to GameCube but I think it is competent with older systems?

Inviere

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Have got myself a Shield TV, any decent guides for setting that up for emulation? I don't think it's performance is up to GameCube but I think it is competent with older systems?

It's fine for older systems. I don't know how it'd handle the run-ahead feature as it's more demanding, but for retro systems and things like overlays & shaders it's competent enough. GameCube is very hit and miss, so I'd have to say it's a no for GC and up.

They're a fantastic little all in one device though.

pinksoir

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLm5JownUOeDWXia3oxGBGh9HOiQaRCFpv

I generally check out this dude's videos to get info about emulation on the shield. The playlist above covers the performance of the later era retro consoles (Saturn onward). I haven't tried, but it looks like there's good performance for a good bit of Dreamcast stuff.

He also has a video about setting up Retroarch if you search his vids.

I've managed to get pretty decent GC performance on quite a few (even most) games (certainly playable), and got some Wii stuff running albeit with some slowdown.

Tom Mann Centuria

Sorting it out is half the fun, thanks lads. Have all my streaming apps sorted, and have Xbox game pass working quite well (not perfect though) so retro gaming is my next project for tomorrow.

Inviere

pinksoir wrote: »

I've managed to get pretty decent GC performance on quite a few (even most) games (certainly playable), and got some Wii stuff running albeit with some slowdown.

I'm quite fussy when it comes to emulation. I go by a rule of thumb that means if the hardware being used for emulation can't (at the very least) match the visuals/performance of the original hardware being emulated, then it's not up to the task. The slightest framerate dips really break things for me, which is why imo the Shield isn't a great choice for GC and above.

That said, Dreamcast emulation on the Shield looked excellent from my limited testing.

The_B_Man

Got an email update on the Sinden Lightguns
Kickstarter non-recoil being shipped by October. Indiegogo ones shipped by start of November.
Then recoil units start being shipped November, and into December, coz apparently there was a hardware issue after stress testing, as well as the firmware being too big to fit in the internal memory of the chip.


Discord:
https://discord.gg/B67hgt4


Wiki:
https://sindenlightgun.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page


I'm waiting on 2 recoil guns myself. Was hoping to be using them by now, as per initial date on Indigogo, but it looks like I'll be waiting til Xmas.

McDermotX

Aye....same here, though i wasn't expecting till Nov in the first place I think, probably a longer wait now.

pinksoir

Inviere wrote: »

I'm quite fussy when it comes to emulation. I go by a rule of thumb that means if the hardware being used for emulation can't (at the very least) match the visuals/performance of the original hardware being emulated, then it's not up to the task. The slightest framerate dips really break things for me, which is why imo the Shield isn't a great choice for GC and above.

That said, Dreamcast emulation on the Shield looked excellent from my limited testing.

I'm not quite so fussy but totally agree that dips in frame rate can be a bummer. For example, Mario Kart DD runs pretty well for the most part, yet there's enough slowdown there in parts that it definitely affects the experience (especially the first lap, something related to the assets cache IIRC). By a similar token, Mario Kart Wii is all but unplayable with the drops in FR, where you can be hitting something like 30 out of 60 FPS fairly often.

But unlike you I'd be a bit more forgiving a lot of the time!

I mean, a Wii is so cheap (many have one already) that using the Shield in place of it is pointless. But then, my Wii is in Ireland and I live in Spain currently, so for me it's a decent option.

Dreamcast emulation does look good, and so does the bit of Saturn emu I've seen.

McDermotX

ETA Prime with the Sinden

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ8JQNxExNM

Doge

Ive been having great fun with it!

So accurate and so fast, its well worth it.

Retr0gamer

Got a hankering to sink about 150 hours into Tactics Ogre as it's one of the all time classics that I've never played.

Tried the latest PSP emulators and they are all still pretty bad. Frameskipping and sound issues and the odd graphical glitch. The same issues I had when I tried FF Tactics. It's a shame. I could play it on PSP or Vita but feel I'll have more success finishing it on PC.

Inviere

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Got a hankering to sink about 150 hours into Tactics Ogre as it's one of the all time classics that I've never played.

Tried the latest PSP emulators and they are all still pretty bad. Frameskipping and sound issues and the odd graphical glitch. The same issues I had when I tried FF Tactics. It's a shame. I could play it on PSP or Vita but feel I'll have more success finishing it on PC.

Seems to be specifically awkward to run. From Reddit:

"It depends on what part of the game is playing. Turning off Block Transfer Effects really improved performance for me, while having the occasional janky text box or something. The overhead map and rain effects slow down emulation, not too sure why there, plus it almost seems random, since occasionally it's been crystal clear, other times the overhead map murders my FPS. Hardware Transform also really helped."

Retr0gamer

Inviere wrote: »

Seems to be specifically awkward to run. From Reddit:

"It depends on what part of the game is playing. Turning off Block Transfer Effects really improved performance for me, while having the occasional janky text box or something. The overhead map and rain effects slow down emulation, not too sure why there, plus it almost seems random, since occasionally it's been crystal clear, other times the overhead map murders my FPS. Hardware Transform also really helped."

I might just roll out the PS TV and get some use out of it. Soundtrack is spectacular and the constant skips and static noise every so often is especially jarring.

Inviere

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I might just roll out the PS TV and get some use out of it. Soundtrack is spectacular and the constant skips and static noise every so often is especially jarring.

Sounds like the best solution for the moment all right

Skerries

looks like there will be a retro Amiga release

https://www.facebook.com/THEC64andMoreByRetroGamesLtd/posts/2425340997771127

Inviere

Skerries wrote: »

looks like there will be a retro Amiga release

More cheap SOC crap no doubt. Getting very close to e-waste this stuff. The recent Sega GameGear things are downright wasteful.

Inviere

How am I only noticing these now? Mesen HD Packs....they take an NES game and replace sprites, art, music, and sometimes even add enhanced game logic, resulting in something that looks, well, pretty damn nice actually. They've a real WiiWare vibe off of them...

Have just set Zelda Remastered up in RetroArch/LaunchBox there....works very well, and looks class

Retr0gamer

What's the best N64 core to use with Retroarch?

My preferred shader isn't working with the N64 cores I've used.

Inviere

Retr0gamer wrote: »

What's the best N64 core to use with Retroarch?

My preferred shader isn't working with the N64 cores I've used.

I don't use shaders with N64 content...upscaling the internal resolution is much more effective and more visually pleasing. Though at that stage you're moving away from the 'authentic' look, and more towards 'what the N64 would look like if it was more powerful'.

You can of course choose settings that will be much closer to the look/feel of how N64 games look, but I mean, who the hell wants that

As for the core, it'll greatly depend on your cpu. I use the Parallel core...Info and configuration here - https://www.libretro.com/index.php/category/parallel/

That's considered quite highly currently.

Retr0gamer

Inviere wrote: »

I don't use shaders with N64 content...upscaling the internal resolution is much more effective and more visually pleasing. Though at that stage you're moving away from the 'authentic' look, and more towards 'what the N64 would look like if it was more powerful'.

You can of course choose settings that will be much closer to the look/feel of how N64 games look, but I mean, who the hell wants that

As for the core, it'll greatly depend on your cpu. I use the Parallel core...Info and configuration here - https://www.libretro.com/index.php/category/parallel/

That's considered quite highly currently.

The shaders I use give it more of a high quality CRT look, looks gorgeous for all the games I've tried, particularly PS1 as it works in conjunction with the dithering nobody likes to create the fake high colour that was originally intended.

I'd prefer to have that over something approximating the N64's original look (whichout the awful blur, that can **** off). I'm currently playing PS1 games in the original resolution with this shader and they look stunning. Was hoping for the same effect with N64.

I've tried Paralell but the best CRT shaders either plain don't work or there's issues with static 2D images for some reason (jumping around like it's interlaced or something?). It's probably an issue with the core rather than the shader, I might need to change the settings a bit to get it right.

o1s1n

Inviere wrote: »

How am I only noticing these now? Mesen HD Packs....they take an NES game and replace sprites, art, music, and sometimes even add enhanced game logic, resulting in something that looks, well, pretty damn nice actually. They've a real WiiWare vibe off of them...

Wow, they really look fantastic. Almost a 'play Zelda and Metroid in a quasi LTTP/Super Metroid way'

Inviere

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The shaders I use give it more of a high quality CRT look, looks gorgeous for all the games I've tried, particularly PS1 as it works in conjunction with the dithering nobody likes to create the fake high colour that was originally intended.

There certainly are some nice shaders for 32bit and beyond...I simply prefer to leverage upscaling instead of them though. There's really no need for a shader when the resolution is high enough, the games look gorgeous when freed of jaggies. Again it's a personal preference, either way gives a visually appealing result. For 16bit etc, I'd consider crt shading essential because 2d sprite graphics simply don't upscale (unless redrawn).

I've tried Paralell but the best CRT shaders either plain don't work or there's issues with static 2D images for some reason (jumping around like it's interlaced or something?). It's probably an issue with the core rather than the shader, I might need to change the settings a bit to get it right.

What shader are you referring to, because the core on its own shouldn't give those results (unless there's a shortcoming in emulation for that particular game). Also, have you actually configured Parallel properly as per the above link? Have you tried AngryLion? Have you switched between OpenGL & Vulkan to see if it's a backend issue?

o1s1n wrote: »

Wow, they really look fantastic. Almost a 'play Zelda and Metroid in a quasi LTTP/Super Metroid way'

Very much an "All Stars" vibe to them for sure.

Retr0gamer

Whatever shader I'm using makes ps1 games look gorgeous.. except kings field because that might just be the ugliest game ever and there's no hope for it.

I have basically been using the mugen and parallel as default and both are t playing nice with my shaders. Not sure why it's just n64 as everything else is fine. I'll check the settings. It could be a resolution issue maybe?

Inviere

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Not sure why it's just n64 as everything else is fine. I'll check the settings. It could be a resolution issue maybe?

Hard to say...what shader is it?

Retr0gamer

Hard to say what I'm using as when I accidentally deleted the settings trying to fix n64 it takes me about an hour to find the right one. I do know I've tried cry royale which gives the jumpy 2D assets. also tried hyllian and easy mode halacation. Not sure what their issues were but I'm pretty sure they just didn't work.

CiDeRmAn

Inviere wrote: »

Hard to say...what shader is it?

Inviere

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Hard to say what I'm using as when I accidentally deleted the settings trying to fix n64 it takes me about an hour to find the right one. I do know I've tried cry royale which gives the jumpy 2D assets. also tried hyllian and easy mode halacation. Not sure what their issues were but I'm pretty sure they just didn't work.

N64 is a bit of a weird one with shaders, as I say I never used them because they just don't look right when used in conjunction with upscaled resolutions (the scanlines clump together and there's visible banding). I did find this for you though, give it a try:

(paraLLEl-RDP) Downsampling
Available options: Disabled, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8

Also known as SSAA, this works pretty similar to the SSAA downscaling feature in Beetle PSX HW’s Vulkan renderer. The idea is that you internally upscale at a higher resolution, then set this option from ‘Disabled’ to any of the other values. What happens from there is that this internal higher resolution image is then downscaled to either half its size, one quarter of its size, or one eight of its size. This gives you a very smoothed out anti-aliased picture that for all intents and purposes still outputs at 240p/240i. From there, you can apply some frontend shaders on top to create a very nice and compelling look that still looks better than native resolution but is also still very faithful to it.

So, if you would want 4x resolution upscaling with 4x SSAA, you’d set ‘Downsample’ to ‘1/2’. With 4x upscale, and 1/4 downsample, you get 240p output with 16x SSAA, which looks great with CRT shaders.

https://www.libretro.com/index.php/category/parallel-n64/

Retr0gamer

I'll give it a try but at the moment I'm loving the look of raw native resolution pixels put through a good scanline shader with slight phosphorous glow. Looks stunning to me. It doesn't look great with a downscaled image but I'll give this one a go and see if it sorts it out.

N64 is a weird one for me because everything else is working beautifully with shaders.

Inviere

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'll give it a try but at the moment I'm loving the look of raw native resolution pixels put through a good scanline shader with slight phosphorous glow. Looks stunning to me.

Preferences aside, it's nice to hear others praise RetroArch shaders....they're absolutely amazing.

It doesn't look great with a downscaled image but I'll give this one a go and see if it sorts it out.

N64 RDP options are quite in depth, I'd say the low level renderer isn't liking those shaders as a guess. There will be ways around it but I likely won't be much help to you on this one. Maybe if you can find out the name of the shader, and give me any Parallel settings you might have changed, I can try recreate it on my end.

N64 is a weird one for me because everything else is working beautifully with shaders.

I had the same experience. PS1 had that horrible scanline banding I spoke of, but only because I was running it at x3 or x4 upscaled....so the two didin't gel. I turned off the crt shaders for that system too and found at these resolutions, I'm perfectly fine without them.

Retr0gamer

I'm finding PS1 looks amazing with a good CRT shader really suits it.

I'll see if I can find the shader I was trying to use. I haven't messed with any of the emulator settings. I kind of get the feeling it might be renderer at high resolution or something at default and it's not working right. I'll check.

Inviere

Also just very briefly....I had some spare time this week so I set up FM Towns (and Marty) in LaunchBox. There's no RetroArch core for this system so a dedicated emulator is required (which I've moved away from as much as possible...no shaders & no unified controls )

Anyway, the system itself is hugely impressive. Not quite up to x68000 standards, but from what I've seen it surpasses an Amiga. The Super SF2 port is damn near arcade perfect (with only minor downgrades), & there's a nice collection of shmups for it too.

Setup was, to be fair, not easy. Not particularly difficult when following the guide, but because the emulator can't run disc images & instead needs images mounted to a virtual drive...it greatly complicates things.

The guide below will automate the entire process though:

1) Double click the game in LaunchBox
2) This automatically mounts the required cd image file
3) Runs the emulator automatically
4) Sends the correct full-screen keystrokes to the emulator to make it fullscreen
5) Plays the game
6) Uses the escape key to quit the game & emulator
7) Automatically unmounts the cd image from the virtual drive
8) Brings you back to LaunchBox

^^ a retroarch core would go a LONG way here Anyway, here's the appropriately titled guide - https://forums.launchbox-app.com/topic/51492-fm-towns-unz-guide-not-for-the-faint-hearted/

Retr0gamer

I heard the lucasarts point and clicks on it are the definitive versions.

Retr0gamer

Inviere wrote: »

Preferences aside, it's nice to hear others praise RetroArch shaders....they're absolutely amazing.



N64 RDP options are quite in depth, I'd say the low level renderer isn't liking those shaders as a guess. There will be ways around it but I likely won't be much help to you on this one. Maybe if you can find out the name of the shader, and give me any Parallel settings you might have changed, I can try recreate it on my end.



I had the same experience. PS1 had that horrible scanline banding I spoke of, but only because I was running it at x3 or x4 upscaled....so the two didin't gel. I turned off the crt shaders for that system too and found at these resolutions, I'm perfectly fine without them.

Issue resolved. Went into the parallel core options and it was rendering at a high resolution. Turned it down to native 640x480 and it's working.

Seems the shader was working but the scanlines are based on pixel density so the more pixels the smaller the scanlines. Looks gorgeous now and I also set texture filtering to 3 point so it's looking very authentic.

Any way to check what current share you have selected so I can share it? I can't seem to see where it is?

Retr0gamer

Some shader porn here:





And King's field just to prove that no shader is good enough to make that game look good.