8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

Ken.

Mod-Ladies and gents and other:D Please stop replying to asiseeit. S/he is banned from the thread and cannot reply.

Zerbini Blewitt

For what it’s worth, I can no longer tell the difference between a genuine anti-choice poster and a piss-take troll.

They seem, to me, to post an almost identical range of alternative facts & similar ethically-insulting Handmaid's tale 'beliefs'

January wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/ROSALimerick/videos/185621482084641/?sk=h_chr

It's not about religion tho'...

"Blessed be the fruit" :rolleyes:

Shadowstrife

Yesers, Yes Voters everywhere, get out there and canvass if you can. Go to your local stall/ events and do flyers/ leaflets.

Keyboard warrior antics does not accomplish anything, only feeds the trolls.

gmisk

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Please do continue.

No. Its obvious . Numbers tiny but the pro suck out the baby and put in a miniature body bag brigade want to focus on less than .001% pregnancies so we can go ahead and slaughter 20% of babies like they do in Uk.

Slaughter come on!
Also if you believe the 1 in 5 figure on face value more fool you, it has been proven to be total BS.

gmisk

Apologies can ignore only seeing poster is banned... But the 1 in 5 posters are BS

joe40

Far be it from me to question site moderation, you guys know a lot more about this than me, But that last "no" supporter was expressing exactly the sort of arguments expressed by the no side. His arguments were effectively countered at every stage by other posters here.
I think for undecideds reading this forum to see no voters spouting vile unsubstantiated nonsense, might sway them to the yes side.
I know if I was undecided some of the posts from no supporters on this forum would push me to a yes. I would like to see more on here.
I was not on the previous threads but the standard of argument from the no side is very poor.

Obviously the thread is not partisan and you want to maintain civil discourse.

amcalester

joe40 wrote: »

Far be it from me to question site moderation, you guys know a lot more about this than me, But that last "no" supporter was expressing exactly the sort of arguments expressed by the no side. His arguments were effectively countered at every stage by other posters here.
I think for undecideds reading this forum to see no voters spouting vile unsubstantiated nonsense, might sway them to the yes side.
I know if I was undecided some of the posts from no supporters on this forum would push me to a yes. I would like to see more on here.
I was not on the previous threads but the standard of argument from the no side is very poor.

Obviously the thread is not partisan and you want to maintain civil discourse.

It’s not really the mods job to sway voters, rather they are here to facilitate discussion.

It’s not the mods fault that few No voters can post arguments that stand up to scrutiny.

That they then start hurling insults and trolling is definitely not their fault.

ad hominem

ad hom

I've seen this phrase used by a number of people who got banned from this and the earlier thread, same person each time or part of a script?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It's the best argument out there imo. Anything else is contentious.

Actually what I wrote "They won't" was incorrect, they already don't.

Plenty of pro life people believe that nothing including even a woman's health should be grounds for repeal. As one such poster on here said trust some, and not anyone under a certain age in their opinion.

fritzelly

January wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/ROSALimerick/videos/185621482084641/?sk=h_chr

It's not about religion tho'...

What was the average age there? Around 60+?

It wasnt me123

Just back from the anniversary mass - no talk of Save the 8th. But did you know there is a Rosary Around Ireland for the Unborn happening. Do they really think an auld prayer would have saved Savita and all the other "victims" of the 8th amendment. Talk about being out of touch. How many people under 60 do you think will be attending that Rosary? None I expect.

Nettle Soup

I am so glad the Roman church is getting involved. It can only be good for the Yes side.

RobertKK

Good news for the No side.

Poll in tomorrow's Sunday Independent:

Yes 45%
No 34%
Undecided 18%

sabat

It's probably too late in the day to be saying this but the self-congratulatory group sneering by the Yes side against religious and older people won't win a single extra vote but may well cost them a percent or two.

January

RobertKK wrote: »

Good news for the No side.

Poll in tomorrow's Sunday Independent:

Yes 45%
No 34%
Undecided 18%

No still under 20 percent I wouldn't call that good news.

RobertKK

January wrote: »

No still under 20 percent I wouldn't call that good news.

11% between Yes and No with undecided and the 3% who wouldn't say included.

thee glitz

joe40 wrote: »

Obviously the thread is not partisan

Ah lad, it does smell of it at least a little.

AnneFrank

thee glitz wrote: »

Ah lad, it does smell of it at least a little.

More than a little.

gmisk

RobertKK wrote: »

Good news for the No side.

Poll in tomorrow's Sunday Independent:

Yes 45%
No 34%
Undecided 18%

OK that is first time no have been over 30 percent?
That is fairly worrying to me. Hopefully gives people a kick up the backside to go and vote.
Like I said before it's going to be close... Gonna stick to my 55ish yes...

AnneFrank

gmisk wrote: »

OK that is first time no have been over 30 percent?
That is fairly worrying to me. Hopefully gives people a kick up the backside to go and vote.
Like I said before it's going to be close... Gonna stick to my 55ish yes...

I've thought that the whole way through, but there is a huge amount of silent no voters out there and they could make the difference

Crea

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Ah lets resort to ad hominem attacks and lets spend weeks talking about tiny percentages. Lets ignore the question i asked you to describe the reality of abortion or lets ignore fact that legislation goes beyond 12 weeks.
Lets ignore beating hearts or fact that the abirtionist must count the legs and arms after he/she has done the deed. Lets ignore it. Lets ignore the fact that 99.5% of pregnancies have nothing to do with rape or FFA . Lets not take responsibility for our actions . We are all victims today anyway

Your claim about counting limbs is completely untrue as prior to 12 weeks the abortion pill is given and the abortion takes places at the home of the woman
Please know the facts before you spread untruths

sabat

sabat wrote: »

It's probably too late in the day to be saying this but the self-congratulatory group sneering by the Yes side against religious and older people won't win a single extra vote but may well cost them a percent or two.

you see any group behaviour on the no side might cost them a few points at all?

SusieBlue

I really don’t care what the margin is so long as the 8th is repealed.
I always said it would be close, it was never going to be a slam dunk victory for either side but I’m honestly not bothered, I’ll happily take a 51% majority.

RobertKK

gmisk wrote: »

OK that is first time no have been over 30 percent?
That is fairly worrying to me. Hopefully gives people a kick up the backside to go and vote.
Like I said before it's going to be close... Gonna stick to my 55ish yes...

No a poll had No over 30% last week.

AnneFrank

RobertKK wrote: »

No a poll had No over 30% last week.

It's always good to have the momentum

gmisk

RobertKK wrote: »

No a poll had No over 30% last week.

Apologies I must have missed that one.

gmisk

AnneFrank wrote: »

It's always good to have the momentum

In fairness from a low base, things like these always tighten up.
I would think a lot of the undecideds may not vote as well.

It is worrying to be honest. The thought of this referendum failing terrifies me, a country where access to women's healthcare is determined by religious dogma is not one I want to live in. But we have to keep going, keep canvassing and having conversations based on facts.

thee glitz

AnneFrank wrote: »

I've thought that the whole way through, but there is a huge amount of silent no voters out there and they could make the difference

A huge amount, who I reckon will make the difference. If this was about saving lives, many would rethink it. But it's not - it's about aborting any baby's birth.

It wasnt me123

AnneFrank wrote: »

I've thought that the whole way through, but there is a huge amount of silent no voters out there and they could make the difference

You won't be surprised to find I don't agree with either RobertKKs poll results. I can't see that poll result he posted and I bet he won't post a link.

There might be people not wanting to say which way they will vote on a poll, but don't assume they are all No voters.

This horrible amendment will be repealed, Ireland will come of age and women will finally have body autonomy.

DrGreenthumb

thee glitz

thee glitz wrote: »

Ah lad, it does smell of it at least a little.

Still waiting on your reply to my question, been given to you twice now.

AnneFrank

DubInMeath wrote: »

Still waiting on your reply to my question, been given to you twice now.

Answering is not obligatory.

thee glitz

DubInMeath wrote: »

thee glitz wrote: »

Ah lad, it does smell of it at least a little.

Still waiting on your reply to my question, been given to you twice now.

I can't reply to a broken link.

Andrew Beef

I have a major crisis of conscience in terms of this vote. I want to see the 8th repealed but I do not agree with the idea of unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks or giving politicians the ability to introduce it. On that basis, I shall be voting No.

It wasnt me123

sabat wrote: »

It's probably too late in the day to be saying this but the self-congratulatory group sneering by the Yes side against religious and older people won't win a single extra vote but may well cost them a percent or two.

The religious have for too long interferred in peoples sexual habits, it has nothing to do with them. These are the people who say no to abortion but yes to dumping babies in septic tanks. I know which I prefer.

I'm not one bit bothered about curtain twitchers, busy bodies need to mind their own business.

Repeal all the way - the youth will come out and vote Yes in their thousands.

AnneFrank

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I have a major crisis of conscience in terms of this vote. I want to see the 8th repealed but I do not agree with the idea of unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks or giving politicians the ability to introduce it. On that basis, I shall be voting No.

That's many peoples stance beef, mine included

gmisk

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

You won't be surprised to find I don't agree with either RobertKKs poll results. I can't see that poll result he posted and I bet he won't post a link.

There might be people not wanting to say which way they will vote on a poll, but don't assume they are all No voters.

This horrible amendment will be repealed, Ireland will come of age and women will finally have body autonomy.

I wish I could be as confident as you tbh... Its going to be tight...i am seeing nothing but save the 8th adds online, whatever about the posters

SusieBlue

Flying Fox wrote: »

It is worrying to be honest. The thought of this referendum failing terrifies me, a country where access to women's healthcare is determined by religious dogma is not one I want to live in. But we have to keep going, keep canvassing and having conversations based on facts.

The only small comfort is that should the effort fail and No wins, the EU has already stated that the 8th is breaching human rights and a danger to women, and the UN has referred to our current abortion laws as ‘cruel, inhumane and degrading’.

Hopefully they will put pressure on the government to have another referendum on the matter in the near future.

RobertKK

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

You won't be surprised to find I don't agree with either RobertKKs poll results. I can't see that poll result he posted and I bet he won't post a link.

There might be people not wanting to say which way they will vote on a poll, but don't assume they are all No voters.

This horrible amendment will be repealed, Ireland will come of age and women will finally have body autonomy.

You will see it in the Sunday Independent tomorrow.

They say with undecided and it is 4% not 3%who didn't express an opinion excluded that the figure is now
57% Yes
43% No.

crazy 88

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/majority-of-fianna-fail-tds-gather-to-call-on-voters-to-say-no-to-repeal-of-8th-840832.html

If the yes vote wins does this mean there is no way fine gaels proposal of abortion up to 12 weeks will be passed since they won't have the votes? And if so could the whole amendment itself be blocked??

SusieBlue

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I have a major crisis of conscience in terms of this vote. I want to see the 8th repealed but I do not agree with the idea of unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks or giving politicians the ability to introduce it. On that basis, I shall be voting No.

Women will access unrestricted abortion up to and after 12 weeks in the UK whether the 8th is retained or repealed. It will make no difference.
We are being asked whether we want to make this regulated and supervised, or whether we want to keep exporting the issue.

As for the politicians, we trust them with every other issue from birth to death. From smoking bans, to the age of consent, and everything in between.
You trust them for everything else but not this.
Bizarre.

PhoenixParker

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I have a major crisis of conscience in terms of this vote. I want to see the 8th repealed but I do not agree with the idea of unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks or giving politicians the ability to introduce it. On that basis, I shall be voting No.

I can understand the gut instinct not to want to legalise it up to 12 weeks but why not vote for it anyway?

The reality is that we have unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks via the UK and abortion pills. Neither will be stopped. It's unrestricted and dangerous.
Waiting for pills or to be able to afford to travel to the UK delays abortion pushing it later.

If you don't like the idea of 12 weeks, surely the idea of it being later is worse?

Voting no leaves women without healthcare they need and puts their lives in danger.
Voting no does nothing to prevent abortion and makes many aspects of abortion worse.

Not liking the idea doesn't mean it's not the best option.

Andrew Beef

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I have a major crisis of conscience in terms of this vote. I want to see the 8th repealed but I do not agree with the idea of unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks or giving politicians the ability to introduce it. On that basis, I shall be voting No.

But the reality is that abortion is happening, it always has and always will. We're just exporting the problem. The 12 week limit not only allows for proper regulation at home, but spares the women carrying babies with fatal foetal abnormalities (i.e. where the baby won't survive) the indignity of having to travel to another country and have her child's ashes couriered home. Please put yourself in the woman's shoes - easy to judge when you're not in the situation yourself.

sabat

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

The religious have for too long interferred in peoples sexual habits, it has nothing to do with them. These are the people who say no to abortion but yes to dumping babies in septic tanks. I know which I prefer.

How many septic tank baby dumpers are voting in the referendum? How many nice old ladies that are liked and respected by their families and communities? Your post just proved my point.

RobertKK

https://twitter.com/crumlinfuels/status/992885688713535490?s=21

It wasnt me123

gmisk wrote: »

I wish I could be as confident as you tbh... Its going to be tight...i am seeing nothing but save the 8th adds online, whatever about the posters

To be honest, I don't even notice the posters anymore. I'm immune to them. I think there are very few people who don't know which way they will vote. I've always been repeal and the posters make not a jot of difference to me. There will be No voters and the posters make not a jot of difference to them.

The poll results of undecideds are not necessarily undecided, they just don't want to tell a stranger which way they want to vote.

I live in rural Ireland and I discuss this all the time - most are in full agreement that the amendment must go - now they could be agreeing with me for peace but most people I speak to under 60 are voting Repeal.

Are you swayed by a poster?

crustybla

Pro birthers out in force in Waterford today. My car is in the garage for a couple of days so I got a lift to work from my dad. We were driving down the quay, amazed at the amount of them and one standing on the island in the centre of the road holding out leaflets to passing cars. My dad (ancient pensioner that he is) slowed down, put down his window and yelled 'vote yes!' over and over at the top of his voice. I love him so much!

mohawk

AnneFrank wrote: »

I've thought that the whole way through, but there is a huge amount of silent no voters out there and they could make the difference

The silent No voters interest me I have to say. if you feel that you are doing the right thing why not say it?

thee glitz

Andrew Beef wrote: »

I have a major crisis of conscience in terms of this vote. I want to see the 8th repealed but I do not agree with the idea of unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks or giving politicians the ability to introduce it. On that basis, I shall be voting No.

Well here you're debating people who'll sell repealing to you for reasons you may well already agree with, but also won't consider accommodating same unless abortion is unrestricted.