8th amendment referendum part 3 - Mod note and FAQ in post #1

PlaneSpeeking

joe swanson wrote: »

Free contraception and more availability to same along with proper sex education should be government policy rather than introducing abortion on demand

Any sign of the answer to my question from earlier Joe?

fritzelly

Wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't still a fairly significant cohort of people out there who are still berating the day contraception stopped being illegal in Ireland - my feelings for the stalwart objection to it was the bigger families to keep the church going numbers going up (don't see families of 10+ any more really), call me pessimistic but I also have a feeling this is part of the reasoning behind the pro-life attitude of the catholic church and it is mostly if not almost entirely a Catholic led objection to pro-choice because I can think of no reason to force a woman to dice with death other than religious indoctrination

January

joe swanson wrote: »

Free contraception and more availability to same along with proper sex education should be government policy rather than introducing abortion on demand

Nobody demands an abortion. Free contraception and proper sex education needs to be introduced but so does safe legal access to abortion (preferably free also).

mohawk

January wrote: »

They're trying to do just that in the near future.

The cynic in me feels the schools rights to preserve their ethos would pose a problem.

January

mohawk wrote: »

The cynic in me feels the schools rights to preserve their ethos would pose a problem.

Nah next hurdle is to remove the schools from the Catholic Church completely.

Bredabe

Dude89 wrote: »

There's more than two types of contraception

Yes, but most for women are hormone-based, they may not tolerated well or at all.

The alternatives are few, condoms, latex or otherwise, allergy aside, wreck the mood and don't take into account pre and post-ejaculate (rare, but a few recorded cases), femidomes are hard to get here and not easy to work with, coils for women, invasive and can make aggravate menstrual issues(assuming its not a coil with hormones, as I'm discounting them for women here), most clinics will only give these to mature women. Old fashioned diaphragm has a lower success rate and takes a while to use properly and some women have problems with the spermicide.

I have mixed feelings about the "pill" for men-based on the lack of consequences for them if they "forget" and the high possibility of men "forgetting", tubal ligation is hard to get in Ireland, and depends on clinic interpretation of the 8th, and has long-term health consequences for the woman I'm told, vasectomy is easier to get and after a short period is 100%, but its a man decision and can take a while for the man/couple do decide on. Withdrawal has an understandably low success rate and anal isn't recommended for contraception at all.

There are quite a few women who have issues with the limited offering available here, esp if there are likely to have an allergenic reaction to hormones. At best the success rates go from 80-99% in ideal conditions. Assuming there isn't any form of hormone neutralising issue in play.

* Forgot about the billings method, also used to monitor conception and is dependent on agreement and restraint. Many of my friends have been born because of this method.

Dressing gown

I’m so cross about the whole thing. There shouldn’t even need to be this endless discussion. There is a massive hangover of shame and desire to be morally superior in this country. I’ve been ignoring my kids trying to help let people understand what is going on here. But it’s not fair on my kids. I’m signing out of this now. If it is not repealed I will be urging my daughters to stay the hell away from this country when they plan on having kids (or even for university if we have the means). It’s like a country frozen in time. Please do the right thing and vote repeal and mind yourselves

Triceratops Ballet

joe swanson wrote:

Free contraception and more availability to same along with proper sex education should be government policy rather than introducing abortion on demand

And what about the other implications of the 8th amendment?

crustybla

Flying Fox wrote: »

Well I've had No campaigners shout out of a car window at me for wearing a Yes badge, so you can get off your high horse.

If that original quote is aimed at my dad, forgive me for not seeing it. I have the crap filtered out.

Overheal

Dude89 wrote: »

There's more than two types of contraception

The United States Center for Disease Control (CDC), the agency of government responsible for finding out empirical, clinical data that relates to healthcare, publishes the following infograph, which is cited from a much more vast array of studies they maintain and update.

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/unintendedpregnancy/pdf/contraceptive_methods_508.pdf



As everyone can see no one method is either very effective, or cheap, and while you will certainly get better odds with both male and female contraceptive methods you are still at chance of conceiving.

While contraceptive education and promotion should be duly considered it is by no means a straight alternative for the provision of abortion services.

Moiratat

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Ditto.

The free for all the government are pushing crossed a line for me.

I was ok with adding provisos like; rape/incest & FFA to the existing allowance for a risk to the wellbeing of the mother.

I was ok with that, most of the country is.
However, the free for all being offered does not sit well with me.

I'll be voting 'No'.
So will my wife, as will all my family, as are most people I know.
Outside the metro-Dublin bubble, I can see a silent ground swell against the reason-less killing of the unborn.

Despite the polling, I think the referendum will be narrowly defeated.

Did I reasonlessly kill my child? Would you have brought a child, a baby into my situation?

PlaneSpeeking

Moiratat wrote: »

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Ditto.

The free for all the government are pushing crossed a line for me.

I was ok with adding provisos like; rape/incest & FFA to the existing allowance for a risk to the wellbeing of the mother.

I was ok with that, most of the country is.
However, the free for all being offered does not sit well with me.

I'll be voting 'No'.
So will my wife, as will all my family, as are most people I know.
Outside the metro-Dublin bubble, I can see a silent ground swell against the reason-less killing of the unborn.

Despite the polling, I think the referendum will be narrowly defeated.

Did I reasonlessly kill my child? Would you have brought a child, a baby into my situation?

I love his confident "... and so will my wife " really ????

Overheal

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Ditto.

The free for all the government are pushing crossed a line for me.

I was ok with adding provisos like; rape/incest & FFA to the existing allowance for a risk to the wellbeing of the mother.

I was ok with that, most of the country is.
However, the free for all being offered does not sit well with me.

I'll be voting 'No'.
So will my wife, as will all my family, as are most people I know.
Outside the metro-Dublin bubble, I can see a silent ground swell against the reason-less killing of the unborn.

Despite the polling, I think the referendum will be narrowly defeated.

Is my understanding correct and that 'unrestricted' period would only be 12 weeks? I don't see what is wrong with that. The average length of time is 6 weeks for a woman to even confirm that she is indeed pregnant. Then you have some time to consider your choices, consult experts, and schedule procedures.

That said, I'm reminded that the US Constitution passed without a Bill of Rights, and the Founders knew this was an issue (it's in the federalist papers) but the deal to get the Constitution ratified was to get that done first, then deliberate the Bill of Rights. You can repeal the 8th, and then revisit the period of alleviated restrictions later, should this become some sort of tangible issue.

amcalester

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I love his confident "... and so will my wife " really ????

It sounds a bit “If she knows what’s good for her.”

Lia_lia

January wrote: »

Yeah there's been a few people on the pro-choice side banned, it's not one sided.

This story on In Her Shoes is heartbreaking. This is why we need 12 weeks without reason. It's not unrestricted. It's unrestricted as to reason. This is why we need it. For these women, yes they are the minority but there is no other way. We cannot have Rape Committees.

Honestly I can't understand how people can read that story and still vote no. I'm actually starting to get really angry with no voters.

Usually I'm like "everyone has their opinion" but after reading so many heartbreaking accounts of how people have been affected by the 8th amendment "pro life" people are really starting to fill me with rage.

pleas advice

amcalester wrote: »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I love his confident "... and so will my wife " really ????

It sounds a bit “If she knows what’s good for her.”

do you think there are no pro-life women, or if there are they are brainwashed or voting that way under threath of violence from their husbands?
really?

Overheal

pleas advice wrote: »

do you think there are no pro-life women, or if there are they are brainwashed or voting that way under threath of violence from their husbands?
really?

It's more that the husband was speaking for the wife. Of course there are many Pro-Birth women out there, I've spoken with plenty.

PlaneSpeeking

pleas advice wrote: »

amcalester wrote: »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I love his confident "... and so will my wife " really ????

It sounds a bit “If she knows what’s good for her.”

do you think there are no pro-life women, or if there are they are brainwashed or voting that way under threath of violence from their husbands?
really?

No I think there are a fair few men who think they decide how the family will vote.

Spoiler Alert- the ballot is secret.

Mrsmum

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I love his confident "... and so will my wife " really ????

Met a neighbour at a bbq today. He said he tells all the Yes crowd he's voting yes and all the No crowd he's voting no but what he'll do in the ballot booth is his own business. I'd say he's not the only one doing that.

pleas advice

It's more that the husband was speaking for the wife.

i've seen similar from plenty of the pro-choice side, 'I'm voting this way, and so is my husband/ mother / grandad/ ...'

PlaneSpeeking

pleas advice wrote: »

i've seen similar from plenty of the pro-choice side, 'I'm voting this way, and so is my husband/ mother / grandad/ ...'

I'd say in that case it's more that they've talked abour it.

I've discussed it with my dad who was disgusted to learn that it blocked me from medical care.

He did suggest "lie and tell them you're a lesbian ?". I asked - no, cos I might be lying. You know cos I'm a woman and that's what we do.

Overheal

Mrsmum wrote: »

Met a neighbour at a bbq today. He said he tells all the Yes crowd he's voting yes and all the No crowd he's voting no but what he'll do in the ballot booth is his own business. I'd say he's not the only one doing that.

A recent study by a group of Christians in the united states revealed that the majority of women (over 70%) who seek abortions consider themselves Christians, and that over 50% of them actively hide this information from their convents with over 40% of them believing their convents are not equipped to give them sound support or advice on the matter.

http://deadstate.org/christian-group-conducts-study-finds-out-that-christians-have-the-most-abortions/

So yeah I think it is fair to say people may not be upfront with others on the street about their views and experiences.

Sofiztikated

pleas advice wrote: »

i've seen similar from plenty of the pro-choice side, 'I'm voting this way, and so is my husband/ mother / grandad/ ...'

Yeah, I've no issue with what he said, I've said similar myself.

Nettle Soup

January wrote: »

mohawk wrote: »

The cynic in me feels the schools rights to preserve their ethos would pose a problem.

Nah next hurdle is to remove the schools from the Catholic Church completely.

Absolutely essential. The current setup is a joke.

threescompany

amcalester wrote: »

We’re already letting Ireland down by denying healthcare to a significant proportion of the population.

“ a significant proportion of the population?” A bit of an exaggeration.
Anyway, It boils down to perspective & opinion.

In my opinion , denying people abortions does not equate to denying people healthcare. Healthcare is care that is required when someone is ill, incapacitated, has an ongoing health condition etc. These are the people that require healthcare. Abortions and healthcare are not the same thing. There are of course exceptions in a minority of cases , FFA , incest etc.
I do believe our government should be providing women with adequate care in this regard and they are not...... but generally when a woman chooses to have an abortion, and healthy fetuses are aborted this is not denying healthcare ...... I appreciate I am in a minority and the 8th will be repealed. But that’s where I stand. I’m not some cruel heartless person. Of course people should be treated appropriately & compassionately when pregnancies result in FFA’s, invest etc. of course there should be medical management of these rare situations. It boils down the fact that I cannot vote to legalize unrestricted abortion. It’s morally wrong. There are other options. What about adoption?? What about a greater awareness & educating these women to CHOSE contraception & not CHOSE whether to abort or not. In this day, with all the contraception, i just don’t accept that it’s right. I see what you’re saying...... it’s a hard difficult referendum..... I don’t make my decision lightly but I suppose I’m just different to you all ( or most of u )

SusieBlue

threescompany wrote: »

“ a significant proportion of the population?” A bit of an exaggeration.
Anyway, It boils down to perspective & opinion.

In my opinion , denying people abortions does not equate to denying people healthcare. Healthcare is care that is required when someone is ill, incapacitated, has an ongoing health condition etc. These are the people that require healthcare. Abortions and healthcare are not the same thing. There are of course exceptions in a minority of cases , FFA , incest etc.
I do believe our government should be providing women with adequate care in this regard and they are not...... but generally when a woman chooses to have an abortion, and healthy fetuses are aborted this is not denying healthcare ...... I appreciate I am in a minority and the 8th will be repealed. But that’s where I stand. I’m not some cruel heartless person. Of course people should be treated appropriately & compassionately when pregnancies result in FFA’s, invest etc. of course there should be medical management of these rare situations. It boils down the fact that I cannot vote to legalize unrestricted abortion. It’s morally wrong. There are other options. What about adoption?? What about a greater awareness & educating these women to CHOSE contraception & not CHOSE whether to abort or not. In this day, with all the contraception, i just don’t accept that it’s right. I see what you’re saying...... it’s a hard difficult referendum..... I don’t make my decision lightly but I suppose I’m just different to you all ( or most of u )

And what about the compassion for the woman who can barely afford to live week to week and can’t afford another child without putting her existing children into poverty?
Or the woman having a crisis because she doesn’t want children?
Or the woman who is in an abusive relationship and doesn’t want to bring a baby into a home with domestic violence?
Or the 16 year old girl who is still a child herself and got caught after her first fumble with her first boyfriend?
Are none of them deserving of help and compassion?

I don’t agree with you that abortion is morally wrong.
Why should I live my life restricted by your morals? I’m not forcing mine on you?

Adoption is non existent in this country.
For a woman that does not want a baby, and does not want to be pregnant, termination is the only option.
No amount of money or faux support thrown at her will change that. We aren’t the ones left holding the baby, she is.
We can either trust and respect her decision or send her to the Ryanair departure gates and let British doctors look after her.
Both scenarios have the same outcome.

Regardless of all this, the 8th has an effect and impact on maternity care for EVERYONE. It needs to go.

fritzelly

threescompany wrote: »

“ a significant proportion of the population?” A bit of an exaggeration.
Anyway, It boils down to perspective & opinion.

In my opinion , denying people abortions does not equate to denying people healthcare. Healthcare is care that is required when someone is ill, incapacitated, has an ongoing health condition etc. These are the people that require healthcare. Abortions and healthcare are not the same thing. There are of course exceptions in a minority of cases , FFA , incest etc.
I do believe our government should be providing women with adequate care in this regard and they are not...... but generally when a woman chooses to have an abortion, and healthy fetuses are aborted this is not denying healthcare ...... I appreciate I am in a minority and the 8th will be repealed. But that’s where I stand. I’m not some cruel heartless person. Of course people should be treated appropriately & compassionately when pregnancies result in FFA’s, invest etc. of course there should be medical management of these rare situations. It boils down the fact that I cannot vote to legalize unrestricted abortion. It’s morally wrong. There are other options. What about adoption?? What about a greater awareness & educating these women to CHOSE contraception & not CHOSE whether to abort or not. In this day, with all the contraception, i just don’t accept that it’s right. I see what you’re saying...... it’s a hard difficult referendum..... I don’t make my decision lightly but I suppose I’m just different to you all ( or most of u )

So you choose to completely ignore the fact that for some women even being pregnant imposes a significant risk to their life, even to the point it's a near certainty it will kill them or cause devastation for the rest of her life, and you will not allow them to abort the fetus to save their lives and maybe keep the mother around for other children she may already have
As usual for the anti-choice brigade you harp on about other solutions.

amcalester

threescompany wrote: »

“ a significant proportion of the population?” A bit of an exaggeration. )

According to the CSO there are 1,000,000 women in Ireland between the ages of 15-44 So yeah, a significant proportion.

Not really an exaggeration at all.

Hannibal_Smith

threescompany wrote: »

“ a significant proportion of the population?” A bit of an exaggeration.
Anyway, It boils down to perspective & opinion.

In my opinion , denying people abortions does not equate to denying people healthcare. Healthcare is care that is required when someone is ill, incapacitated, has an ongoing health condition etc. These are the people that require healthcare.

Health condition. Is having a feotus inside you that is sharing your body and your nutrients when you don't want it to a health condition? It's something that is impacting on your body and physical being. Pregnancy can be bloody tough when it's wanted...I can't imagine facing it when it's something I 100% do not want.

PlaneSpeeking

threescompany wrote: »

amcalester wrote: »

We’re already letting Ireland down by denying healthcare to a significant proportion of the population.

“ a significant proportion of the population?” A bit of an exaggeration.
Anyway, It boils down to perspective & opinion.

In my opinion , denying people abortions does not equate to denying people healthcare. Healthcare is care that is required when someone is ill, incapacitated, has an ongoing health condition etc. These are the people that require healthcare. Abortions and healthcare are not the same thing. There are of course exceptions in a minority of cases , FFA , incest etc.
I do believe our government should be providing women with adequate care in this regard and they are not...... but generally when a woman chooses to have an abortion, and healthy fetuses are aborted this is not denying healthcare ...... I appreciate I am in a minority and the 8th will be repealed. But that’s where I stand. I’m not some cruel heartless person. Of course people should be treated appropriately & compassionately when pregnancies result in FFA’s, invest etc. of course there should be medical management of these rare situations. It boils down the fact that I cannot vote to legalize unrestricted abortion. It’s morally wrong. There are other options. What about adoption?? What about a greater awareness & educating these women to CHOSE contraception & not CHOSE whether to abort or not. In this day, with all the contraception, i just don’t accept that it’s right. I see what you’re saying...... it’s a hard difficult referendum..... I don’t make my decision lightly but I suppose I’m just different to you all ( or most of u )

I am being denied healthcare as we speak. I did not choose to have pain. But you are choosing to deny me a diagnosis because my age and gender mean I COULD be pregnant and doesn't allow me to be believed when I say that is not even a possibility.

PlaneSpeeking

amcalester wrote: »

threescompany wrote: »

“ a significant proportion of the population?” A bit of an exaggeration. )

According to the CSO there are 1,000,000 women in Ireland between the ages of 15-44 So yeah, a significant proportion.

Not really an exaggeration at all.

I'm 48 and it's after affecting me. So the numbers are higher again

PlaneSpeeking

amcalester wrote: »

threescompany wrote: »

“ a significant proportion of the population?” A bit of an exaggeration. )

According to the CSO there are 1,000,000 women in Ireland between the ages of 15-44 So yeah, a significant proportion.

Not really an exaggeration at all.

I'm 48 and it's after affecting me. So the numbers are higher again

threescompany

fritzelly wrote: »

So you choose to completely ignore the fact that for some women even being pregnant imposes a significant risk to their life, even to the point it's a near certainty it will kill them or cause devastation for the rest of her life, and you will not allow them to abort the fetus to save their lives and maybe keep the mother around for other children she may already have
As usual for the anti-choice brigade you harp on about other solutions.

Anti choice brigade..... Really do you have to be so rude? I’m entitled to make a point without reading snide comments. Also Is offering alternative soloutuons not the intelligent thing to do in a debate??

amcalester

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I'm 48 and it's after affecting me. So the numbers are higher again

Absolutely, those were the age brackets on the CSO website.

I could delve deeper but the point stands regardless.

threescompany

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Health condition. Is having a feotus inside you that is sharing your body and your nutrients when you don't want it to a health condition? It's something that is impacting on your body and physical being. Pregnancy can be bloody tough when it's wanted...I can't imagine facing it when it's something I 100% do not want.

I was talking about healthcare - not health condition.

Killester1

Andrew Beef wrote: »

That is a ridiculous argument!

Just because some women are choosing to commit an illegal and immoral act either via the internet by ordering pills or via a trip to the UK, it is not justification for changing our country into one which readily accepts the unnecessary termination of a viable baby’s life.

The 8th needs to go but we do not need unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks.

If we get rid of the 8th, taking the unborn rights out of our constitution and replace it with an article that allows them, the politicians, to legislate further on this complex matter. Our we mad!!! Look at this week alone and the disgraceful crisis of the cervical check and now Tony is going on holidays. How can we trust any of the politicians. Repealing the 8th will allow any government, current and future, to amend 12 weeks unstructed abortion to 40 weeks. That is what we are voting on.

VOTE NO and let the government make a better proposal to the people. Let them go back to the drawing board.

VOTE NO

PlaneSpeeking

threescompany wrote: »

fritzelly wrote: »

So you choose to completely ignore the fact that for some women even being pregnant imposes a significant risk to their life, even to the point it's a near certainty it will kill them or cause devastation for the rest of her life, and you will not allow them to abort the fetus to save their lives and maybe keep the mother around for other children she may already have
As usual for the anti-choice brigade you harp on about other solutions.

Anti choice brigade..... Really do you have to be so rude? I’m entitled to make a point without reading snide comments. Also Is offering alternative soloutuons not the intelligent thing to do in a debate??

Can you answer my point that you are wrong in your assertion that healthcare is not being denied to women ?

Antichoice is a very good descriptor - my GP wants me to have a x ray, the clinic doing the MRI does, I clearly do and the local hospital wants to perform it.

By you and others imposing your beliefs on me you are removing my choice and denying me heathcare.

Bredabe

threescompany wrote: »

“ a significant proportion of the population?” A bit of an exaggeration.
Anyway, It boils down to perspective & opinion.

In my opinion , denying people abortions does not equate to denying people healthcare. Healthcare is care that is required when someone is ill, incapacitated, has an ongoing health condition etc. These are the people that require healthcare. Abortions and healthcare are not the same thing. There are of course exceptions in a minority of cases , FFA , incest etc.
I do believe our government should be providing women with adequate care in this regard and they are not...... but generally when a woman chooses to have an abortion, and healthy fetuses are aborted this is not denying healthcare ...... I appreciate I am in a minority and the 8th will be repealed. But that’s where I stand. I’m not some cruel heartless person. Of course people should be treated appropriately & compassionately when pregnancies result in FFA’s, invest etc. of course there should be medical management of these rare situations. It boils down the fact that I cannot vote to legalize unrestricted abortion. It’s morally wrong. There are other options. What about adoption?? What about a greater awareness & educating these women to CHOSE contraception & not CHOSE whether to abort or not. In this day, with all the contraception, i just don’t accept that it’s right. I see what you’re saying...... it’s a hard difficult referendum..... I don’t make my decision lightly but I suppose I’m just different to you all ( or most of u )

I'm just taking your adoption point here, lots of ppl think this is an option, but it's not as simple as FHE would have ppl believe.

For a married woman to put her child up for adoption she has to have her husband's consent(even if it's not his child or they are separated), if they are together, they have to declare there is a problem in their home, that makes it a better option for the child to be out of that situation, this leaves the door open for their other children to be taken into care. Private adoption is costly, and have such outdated rules for placement, its inaccessible for most people.

Adoption in the public services mean interacting with social services at an early stage in the pregnancy(so decisions have to be made early) in the majority of cases, after birth the child is placed in a care situation and those are dependent on staff, environment, number and type of other children in the facilities. Mostly its babies who are adopted and the process for adoptive parents is so long and arduous that often times its just less painful for perspectives to adopt from abroad. Meaning that lots of kids are outside the optimum ages for prospective parents(while this is by no means all, it's very very common). This often is why kids grow up in care and can have such issues in readjusting to the outside world. While many kids are placed in foster care, even the best possible foster homes cant replace a stable loving home and moving a child from foster is beyond painful for all involved.

Even if a child is adopted from an early age, there can be psychological issues with being different from their family and/or overwhelming feeling of abandonment, often lifelong. These issues are hard to find support for here and have consequences for the youngsters ability to bond as an adult.

Killester1

Killester1 wrote: »

If we get rid of the 8th, taking the unborn rights out of our constitution and replace it with an article that allows them, the politicians, to legislate further on this complex matter. Our we mad!!! Look at this week alone and the disgraceful crisis of the cervical check and now Tony is going on holidays. How can we trust any of the politicians. Repealing the 8th will allow any government, current and future, to amend 12 weeks unstructed abortion to 40 weeks. That is what we are voting on.

VOTE NO and let the government make a better proposal to the people. Let them go back to the drawing board.

VOTE NO

Justin Barrett, Declan Ganley and John McGuirk all consider themselves politicians or political activists, so we shouldn't be trusting them and anything they say either.

fritzelly

threescompany wrote: »

Anti choice brigade..... Really do you have to be so rude? I’m entitled to make a point without reading snide comments. Also Is offering alternative soloutuons not the intelligent thing to do in a debate??

You want to deny women any choice so it's a perfectly acceptable title

"alternative soloutuons" is such a crass, much peddled pro-life solution to an issue which is not all about what to do with it once its born

amcalester

DubInMeath wrote: »

Justin Barrett, Declan Ganley and John McGuirk all consider themselves politicians or political activists, so we shouldn't be trusting them and anything they say either.

I do wonder if the “Don’t trust politicians” brigade see the irony in Save the 8th wheeling out a bunch of FF TDs and Senators to campaign for a No vote.

Overheal

Killester1 wrote: »

Repealing the 8th will allow any government, current and future, to amend 12 weeks unstructed abortion to 40 weeks.

Ah, fearmongering never gets old. It doesn't stop them from making it 10 weeks either then. Or 6.

Water John

Well, they were sort of caught, in their own rhetoric. Will we go with the photo or not? So they let it seep out, not taking ownership, but accepting any kudos.

threescompany

threescompany wrote: »

I was talking about healthcare - not health condition.

Sorry but it's one and the same. If you have a health condition you need healthcare. The poster your replying to has been denied this even though she isn't pregnant but isn't believed unless they go and get a pregnancy test signed off on by her GP.
As a man the closest I've come to this is being denied a vasectomy when I was in my thirties because I might "change my mind and regret it" according to the doctor I was registered with at the time.

amcalester

Water John wrote: »

Well, they were sort of caught, in their own rhetoric. Will we go with the photo or not? So they let it seep out, not taking ownership, but accepting any kudos.

Well they often don’t have to take responsibility/ownership for their actions.

They force that unto others.

There are two things that worry me in the lead up to polling day:

1. The No campaign have been spreading blatant lies on their posters and literature, and will repeat those lies to people on the doors. Those of us engaged with the issue can see through it, but they could sway a significant number of undecided voters. I can't understand how this is allowed given the potential consequences, but it seems there's nothing that can be done to stop the spread of misinformation.

2. The amount of people who think foetus in early pregnancy = person deserving of rights. I think the way to counter this is to put forward the medical testimonies heard by the Citizen's Assembly and Oireachtas Committee, but this hasn't really been done. The argument is all about choice, but if someone genuinely thinks abortion is murder, they will see saving a life as more important than someone's choice. We need people to question their existing assumptions.

brendanwalsh

Can anyone tell me what does the current legislation allow for?

Can they abort for rape or risk to life of the mother or fatal fetal anomaly?

Thanks

mohawk

Killester1 wrote: »

Repealing the 8th will allow any government, current and future, to amend 12 weeks unstructed abortion to 40 weeks. That is what we are voting on.

VOTE NO and let the government make a better proposal to the people. Let them go back to the drawing board.

VOTE NO

Post reads like scaremongering. A person who actually believes this really has a big problem with women.

Even if it was legal it would not happen in reality. Does anyone truly believe a woman would wait until the end of the pregnancy before getting an abortion? Wait until she is showing and everyone in her life knows she is pregnant. For anyone reading this and believes that women are going to be looking for abortions at 40 weeks please think about it logically.

amcalester

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what does the current legislation allow for?

Can they abort for rape or risk to life of the mother or fatal fetal anomaly?

Thanks

Risk of life only, not rape, risk to health or FFA.

Killester1

DubInMeath wrote: »

Justin Barrett, Declan Ganley and John McGuirk all consider themselves politicians or political activists, so we shouldn't be trusting them and anything they say either.

A couple of weeks ago, Leo announced that he was giving the YES campaign 50,000e to 100,000e depending how their campaign was going......tax payers money. My taxes. How is that fair and democratic?