DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

coogy

Strawberry Swan wrote: »

Well done to all in the half marathon, great results. Pity I didn't sign up for it.

I'll be doing my long run tonight - 20 miles. It was very very tough last week as most of it was on the footpath. My knees felt it. I tend to mostly train on trail so I know I need to get used to running on the hard surface. What percentage of my long runs should be run on hard surface in preparation for the marathon?

I think I recall reading somewhere that it's recommended during training to run 50% on concrete/50% on grass. I guess that it won't be possible for everyone to achieve this but when I can, I make sure that I do at least a couple of the shorter midweek runs exclusively on grass.

RayCun

If you can run on tarmac paths, they'd be a bit softer than concrete, and closer to road running

coogy

So. Tailwind.

Tried it for the first time for my lsr at the weekend and apart from tasting rather nice, I think it did the job. It has a slightly more syrupy consistency compared to the Zero tabs (maybe I was just imagining that) and it certainly felt like it was making a difference. I think I'll give it another go this coming weekend but I reckon I'll be using it for DCM.

Anyone else using it at the moment?

gypsylee

I'm taking Tailwind too and feel it is helping me on the long runs. Sipped on half a sachet at the Half and refilled the bottle with another half sachet and water at the water stop at Mile 9. Definitely helps me.

Rossi7

So that's the final tune up race out of the way with, just a small matter of a marathon left to run :woot:
Half went well enough for myself, got around in 1.45.33. Was hoping to maybe give 1.41/42 a rattle but after 2 miles in I felt my left knee niggling at me again. Was in with the physio on Friday and he said it was my ITB so nothing a pair of hands and a piece of foam won't sort out. After a few races this year you start to recognise the same club vests and faces around you after a few miles in so was great to have my own little race mid pack. I managed to drop two lads who pipped me on both the last two Race Series on the last hill and managed to stay ahead of them through to the finish where I got a shout out on the tannoy crossing the line :D Mornings like Saturday is worth the blood and sweat throughout the year
Roll on the 28th

downtheroad

I must say that was a very enjoyable morning in the Phoenix Park on Saturday. I thought it was very well organised and a great atmosphere on the day.

I had an interesting week leading into this race. I got stung by a bee on my long run last Saturday, and got knocked off my bike by a motorist while commuting home on Thursday evening. Sometimes bad things happen in 3s, so I was expecting my hamstring or achilles to pop during the race, so was delighted when I ended up running a new PB time for a half marathon.

The only thing I found disappointing on the day was that some runners thought it was appropriate to fling their water bottles as far as possible into the grass, so it won't be found during the clean up. And also disappointing that many runners throw their gel packets onto the ground instead of back into the pocket they just took it from. Very strange that people who clearly enjoy running outdoors are happy to litter the park. Hopefully most of it was collected during the post race clean up.

skyblue46

Still loads of the wrappers on Tower Road yesterday morning. Totally selfish carry on.

aloooof

Strawberry Swan wrote: »

I don't know any road I can run on in Dublin. The best option I can think of is the path out along Clontarf towards Howth but not sure if that is tarmac or concrete. I'll run some of my run tonight on Phoenix Park trail and then maybe try the Clontarf run next weekend.

The new path along Clontarf towards Howth is tarmac as far as I remember, ran it a couple of weeks ago and it was a really nice route.

aloooof

coogy wrote: »

So. Tailwind.

Tried it for the first time for my lsr at the weekend and apart from tasting rather nice, I think it did the job. It has a slightly more syrupy consistency compared to the Zero tabs (maybe I was just imagining that) and it certainly felt like it was making a difference. I think I'll give it another go this coming weekend but I reckon I'll be using it for DCM.

Anyone else using it at the moment?

What flavour did you use coogy? Tried some Tailwin for the last LSR and didn't find it very nice at all tbh. Was using it to wash down the Clif Shot bloks as well, so think that didn't help the stomach.

I might give it one more try this weekend and decide after that, but right now I'm leaning towards Clif Shot Bloks and some High5 tabs. I'm hoping that'll be enough fuel for the day.

coogy

aloooof wrote: »

What flavour did you use coogy? Tried some Tailwin for the last LSR and didn't find it very nice at all tbh. Was using it to wash down the Clif Shot bloks as well, so think that didn't help the stomach.

I might give it one more try this weekend and decide after that, but right now I'm leaning towards Clif Shot Bloks and some High5 tabs. I'm hoping that'll be enough fuel for the day.

I used the orange flavour and I quite liked it. I'm sure you will be fine with the High 5 tabs and Clif Bloks, that's what I probably would have ended up using too.

Need to do some reading up on it though. I know there's a been a lot of discussion about Tailwind in this thread so I've a bit of catching up to do!

aloooof

coogy wrote: »

I used the orange flavour and I quite liked it. I'm sure you will be fine with the High 5 tabs and Clif Bloks, that's what I probably would have ended up using too.

Need to do some reading up on it though. I know there's a been a lot of discussion about Tailwind in this thread so I've a bit of catching up to do!

I'm gonna give it one last try this weekend, might try the orange as I got one of those sample packs with the different flavours. If it doesn't work for me then, so be it, but I definitely remember reading some posts on here tho from others who found it very good, so just depends what works for you.

Huzzah!

aloooof wrote: »

What flavour did you use coogy? Tried some Tailwin for the last LSR and didn't find it very nice at all tbh. Was using it to wash down the Clif Shot bloks as well, so think that didn't help the stomach.

I might give it one more try this weekend and decide after that, but right now I'm leaning towards Clif Shot Bloks and some High5 tabs. I'm hoping that'll be enough fuel for the day.

I used a combination of TW and Clif Shot Bloks for Berlin, but not together. I took a blok every 3k until 27k and then started the caffeinated TW from about 30k (Raspberry flavour). I struggled with the TW but that may have been more about where I was in the race, as opposed to the TW. The Raspberry flavour is rank, though, imho. I much preferred the lemon, but I wanted the caffeine boost at that point in my race.

I think if you're taking Bloks, you need to be careful you're taking them with water.

Strawberry Swan

aloooof wrote: »

I'm gonna give it one last try this weekend, might try the orange as I got one of those sample packs with the different flavours. If it doesn't work for me then, so be it, but I definitely remember reading some posts on here tho from others who found it very good, so just depends what works for you.

I found it brilliant, more energy and much less stiffness in my legs. But that's compared to using only water, not any type of electrolytes. I took a full sachet for my 20m run along with 2 gels. It might be worth trying the flavourless one as it's as neutral as possible.

ChippyRun

coogy wrote: »

So. Tailwind.

Tried it for the first time for my lsr at the weekend and apart from tasting rather nice, I think it did the job. It has a slightly more syrupy consistency compared to the Zero tabs (maybe I was just imagining that) and it certainly felt like it was making a difference. I think I'll give it another go this coming weekend but I reckon I'll be using it for DCM.

Anyone else using it at the moment?

I tried it for the first time at the Half in the Park on Saturday and found it to be quite good. I used the flavourless one which tasted only ok and yes a bit syrupy. I just emptied the sachet into a 500ml bottle and carried it with me and sipped as I went along and washed it down at the water stations. Carrying a bottle not the best idea really and I wouldn't do that for a full marathon.
I bought a pack of 6 sachets so will give it a go again this weekend.

yido1882

Asking a question for a friend............On any long runs over 13 or 14 miles in training, he's needed to go to the toilet once or twice along the way. That's fine when training but if you're targeting a certain time and following a pacer in DCM, what do you do? 
Do you up the pace for a couple of KMs before you need to go and hope by the time you do your business, they haven't passed you by too much of a distance? 
There's a fine balance between been willing to p1ss in your shorts and running the time you really want to run!!

Applegirl26

Are the Q's long at the portapotties en route at DCM?
Also asking for a friend.....

Kellygirl

yido1882 wrote: »

Asking a question for a friend............On any long runs over 13 or 14 miles in training, he's needed to go to the toilet once or twice along the way. That's fine when training but if you're targeting a certain time and following a pacer in DCM, what do you do? 
Do you up the pace for a couple of KMs before you need to go and hope by the time you do your business, they haven't passed you by too much of a distance? 
There's a fine balance between been willing to p1ss in your shorts and running the time you really want to run!!

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Are the Q's long at the portapotties en route at DCM?
Also asking for a friend.....

I try to hydrate well for the few days before race day so that on the morning I’m not drinking too much. I would also try not to have anything to drink for two hours before the race. On the morning of DCM last year I was up at 6, had coffee and breakfast and that was it then. If you are well enough hydrated you shouldn’t need anything more. Maybe try this for your long runs?

If it’s after 13/14 miles I wonder are you drinking too much while you are running? What are you normally drinking then?


Qs aren’t long once you are well into the race I don’t think but I stand to be corrected on that one. They are very very long before the race though.

RayCun

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Are the Q's long at the portapotties en route at DCM?
Also asking for a friend.....

at the early ones, yes

Perhaps both of you could tell your friends that if you are constantly drinking water before race, that is probably more nervousness than thirst. If you have had plenty to drink, but your mouth is dry, swish some water around in your mouth and spit it out again.
And if you haven't had a lot to drink, but constantly need to go to the toilet, some of that is probably just nervousness as well, and will disappear once you get running.

People overestimate how much they need to drink in a race. IMHO, if you're running a half or a marathon and you need to go to the toilet in the second half of the race, you have had too much to drink.

ariana`

yido1882 wrote: »

Asking a question for a friend............On any long runs over 13 or 14 miles in training, he's needed to go to the toilet once or twice along the way. That's fine when training but if you're targeting a certain time and following a pacer in DCM, what do you do? 
Do you up the pace for a couple of KMs before you need to go and hope by the time you do your business, they haven't passed you by too much of a distance? 
There's a fine balance between been willing to p1ss in your shorts and running the time you really want to run!!

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Are the Q's long at the portapotties en route at DCM?
Also asking for a friend.....

I'll be honest ye, i needed the toilet on most of my long runs last year - i factored it into my route selection every week but on the day i didn't need it. But there are plenty of portaloos on the course, i didn't take any notice of the Qs last year or else there was no Q as certainly don't remember noticing it! Yido i wouldn't recommend that your friend ups the pace for any reason, if s/he has to stop for any reason and the pacer gets ahead then they should be able to gradually reel them back in over the following few miles.

RayCun

yido1882 wrote: »

On any long runs over 13 or 14 miles in training, he's needed to go to the toilet once or twice along the way. That's fine when training but if you're targeting a certain time and following a pacer in DCM, what do you do? 

If you fall behind time/the pacer for any reason - toilet stop, problem getting gels, shoelaces undone, need to stretch - you should aim to make up the ground by the very end of the race.

If you make a toilet stop at 10 miles, and the pacer is a minute ahead of you, you should think "okay, one minute, that's 60 seconds, 15 miles to go, I'll close that gap by 4 seconds a mile"

yido1882

Great advice everyone, thanks very much! 

I would drink around 800mls of water with a SiS electrolyte tab during a the course of a 15-20 mile run. Does that sound like too much?

skyblue46

yido1882 wrote: »

Great advice everyone, thanks very much! 

I would drink around 800mls of water with a SiS electrolyte tab during a the course of a 15-20 mile run. Does that sound like too much?

But what does your friend drink?

RayCun

yido1882 wrote: »

I would drink around 800mls of water with a SiS electrolyte tab during a the course of a 15-20 mile run. Does that sound like too much?

and how much before the run?

aloooof

Huzzah! wrote: »

I used a combination of TW and Clif Shot Bloks for Berlin, but not together. I took a blok every 3k until 27k and then started the caffeinated TW from about 30k (Raspberry flavour). I struggled with the TW but that may have been more about where I was in the race, as opposed to the TW. The Raspberry flavour is rank, though, imho. I much preferred the lemon, but I wanted the caffeine boost at that point in my race.

I think if you're taking Bloks, you need to be careful you're taking them with water.

Thanks for the tips, I've tried the bloks before with water and found them really good to be honest, so leaning towards those on the race day itself. I think it's worth giving the TW one last go tho!

Did you find it a bit annoying having to take the bloks so often tho?

(Brilliant race and race report btw!)

Strawberry Swan wrote: »

I found it brilliant, more energy and much less stiffness in my legs. But that's compared to using only water, not any type of electrolytes. I took a full sachet for my 20m run along with 2 gels. It might be worth trying the flavourless one as it's as neutral as possible.

I think I tried the lemon last time out, so the regular flavourless one might be the way to go, thanks.

yido1882

RayCun wrote: »

yido1882 wrote: »

I would drink around 800mls of water with a SiS electrolyte tab during a the course of a 15-20 mile run. Does that sound like too much?

and how much before the run?

I usually do the LSR first thing in the morning so probably only 200mls or so beforehand.

Singer

yido1882 wrote: »

Asking a question for a friend............On any long runs over 13 or 14 miles in training, he's needed to go to the toilet once or twice along the way. That's fine when training but if you're targeting a certain time and following a pacer in DCM, what do you do? 
Do you up the pace for a couple of KMs before you need to go and hope by the time you do your business, they haven't passed you by too much of a distance? 
There's a fine balance between been willing to p1ss in your shorts and running the time you really want to run!!

Training is called training for a reason. If you're training to run a race with a bunch of toilet breaks, then take toilet breaks on your training runs. If you don't want to take toilet breaks because you want to run the best time possible or want to follow a pacer, then don't take toilet breaks on your training runs, i.e. figure this out well before DCM (now, pretty much). This will mean either mean changing up the hydration strategy (not skulling back a load of liquids before/during the run) or learning how to hold on and not let it bother you.

I ran DCM last year needing to go to the jacks for a lot of the race. Not badly so, but I decided to just hang on. By the time I finished I didn't need to go anymore. Where did it go?

Huzzah!

aloooof wrote: »

Thanks for the tips, I've tried the bloks before with water and found them really good to be honest, so leaning towards those on the race day itself. I think it's worth giving the TW one last go tho!

Did you find it a bit annoying having to take the bloks so often tho?

(Brilliant race and race report btw!)

Thanks

I liked having stuff to look forward to rather than just focusing on the miles done/left to go, so no, it wasn't an issue taking one so frequently. That's just me, though.

Whatever fuelling strategy you decide on, it might be worth practicing on one run, so that you're taking fuel on board at the same intervals as you will on the day. I'd tried a few different combos and this is what worked for me. Gels weren't an option, unfortunately.

ariana`

Huzzah! wrote: »

Thanks

I liked having stuff to look forward to rather than just focusing on the miles done/left to go, so no, it wasn't an issue taking one so frequently. That's just me, though.

Whatever fuelling strategy you decide on, it might be worth practicing on one run, so that you're taking fuel on board at the same intervals as you will on the day. I'd tried a few different combos and this is what worked for me. Gels weren't an option, unfortunately.

Sound advice there!

aloooof

Huzzah! wrote: »

Thanks

I liked having stuff to look forward to rather than just focusing on the miles done/left to go, so no, it wasn't an issue taking one so frequently. That's just me, though.

Whatever fuelling strategy you decide on, it might be worth practicing on one run, so that you're taking fuel on board at the same intervals as you will on the day. I'd tried a few different combos and this is what worked for me. Gels weren't an option, unfortunately.

ariana` wrote: »

Sound advice there!

Cheers, both! I've tried the bloks on their own during an 18m run, taking them around 2.5m intervals from 5m onwards and that's worked best so far. I'll give the TW one last go this weekend, and failing that will just stick with the bloks, I think.

Eoineo

Singer wrote: »

I ran DCM last year needing to go to the jacks for a lot of the race. Not badly so, but I decided to just hang on. By the time I finished I didn't need to go anymore. Where did it go?

Similar thing happened on the half on Sat to me. So much so that I was uncomfortable the whole way around. By the time I made it to the portaloos I had lost the urgency.



I'll definitely be focussing on my hydration on days other than race days as I had a terrible experience at a 10km race earlier this year. I had a cup of tea the hour beforehand (I know, I know) then had to use a portaloo at the 2km mark with a massive queue and it cost me 9 mins.