DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

OOnegative

coogy wrote: »

Ok, I promise this is the last time I'll mention this on the thread but once and for all, I just want to get a clear idea in my head about fuelling on marathon day. I think these are are my two options:

• Wear a bottle belt which holds 2 x 170 ml bottles. Plan would be to fill each one with Tailwind prior to the race. Belt will also hold clif bloks for additional fuelling.
  Didn't think I'd want to wear one of these but they're not as cumbersome looking as I thought.
  
  
• Wear a flip belt containing clif bloks and a sachet of tailwind. Plan would be to empty half of sachet of tailwind into one of the bottles handed out at 3 mile water station and same again for water station at mile 13.
  Obviously flipbelts are far more comfortable to wear and would be my preference.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Any chance of family/friends meeting you at points on the course with prepared tailwind? Saves you carrying anything at all while running the marathon, plus tailwind is messy stuff, trying to pour it into a bottle on the run is awkward. I have done this in Rotterdam & Barcelona, meeting the missus with water and am doing the same in Köln in 11 days.

Hedgehoggy

Wear a bottle belt which holds 2 x 170 ml bottles. Plan would be to fill each one with Tailwind prior to the race. Belt will also hold clif bloks for additional fuelling.
Didn't think I'd want to wear one of these but they're not as cumbersome looking as I thought.


Wear a flip belt containing clif bloks and a sachet of tailwind. Plan would be to empty half of sachet of tailwind into one of the bottles handed out at 3 mile water station and same again for water station at mile 13.
Obviously flipbelts are far more comfortable to wear and would be my preference.

I've tried the clif bloks on two long runs now and find them pretty good. For me its just easier - they are simple to carry, just have to open them up, there's no mixing, can space them out nicely, etc. But - I also bring along a few 'tuc' crackers too and have these to counteract the sickly sweetness of the bloks.

I'm tempted to take my inspiration from video games and arrange myself a collectathon, I'm thinking of going out the night before and hiding 3/4 pre-mixed bottles of tailwind at various spots on the course. I figure there must be a few spots safe enough to leave them that will also be easy to access without stopping!

Just a thought anyway, in case I can't figure out a better strategy

Seems way too risky - I drop my bottles on a run then loop around and even on routes I'm very familiar with I can forget where I left them / find it hard to retrieve them - to be honest even bending down to pick them up is a bit of a hassle when your a long way into a run!




Thanks for all the recommendations for the cold - will use anything and everything!!!!

Huzzah!

coogy wrote: »

Ok, I promise this is the last time I'll mention this on the thread but once and for all, I just want to get a clear idea in my head about fuelling on marathon day. I think these are are my two options:

• Wear a bottle belt which holds 2 x 170 ml bottles. Plan would be to fill each one with Tailwind prior to the race. Belt will also hold clif bloks for additional fuelling.
  Didn't think I'd want to wear one of these but they're not as cumbersome looking as I thought.
  
  
• Wear a flip belt containing clif bloks and a sachet of tailwind. Plan would be to empty half of sachet of tailwind into one of the bottles handed out at 3 mile water station and same again for water station at mile 13.
  Obviously flipbelts are far more comfortable to wear and would be my preference.

Any reason why you wouldn't just rely on Clif Shot Bloks? I had a combination, myself, but that was from experience of not being able to stomach Bloks after a certain point.

Anyone have any thoughts?

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm tempted to take my inspiration from video games and arrange myself a collectathon, I'm thinking of going out the night before and hiding 3/4 pre-mixed bottles of tailwind at various spots on the course. I figure there must be a few spots safe enough to leave them that will also be easy to access without stopping!

Just a thought anyway, in case I can't figure out a better strategy.

You could always carry your TW in a concentrated mix and take on water at the water stations, which is suggested in the Racing Tips section here: https://www.tailwindnutrition.co.uk/faqs.html

Huzzah!

ariana` wrote: »

I hear ya :mad: I swear by old fashioned fresh lemon and ginger in hot water. My other half swears by hot toddies I take Vit C + Zinc all Winter as a preventative measure but it seems to be letting me down at the moment. I guess you'll get lots of different recommendations but you can't beat lots of rest & fluids. Take care and get well anyhow, better now than in 4 weeks time :eek:

Oooo. It's almost Hot Toddy season

RayCun

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm tempted to take my inspiration from video games and arrange myself a collectathon, I'm thinking of going out the night before and hiding 3/4 pre-mixed bottles of tailwind at various spots on the course. I figure there must be a few spots safe enough to leave them that will also be easy to access without stopping!

:pac:

If that's your best solution for using tailwind, I think you need to consider not using tailwind.

incentsitive

coogy wrote: »

Ok, I promise this is the last time I'll mention this on the thread but once and for all, I just want to get a clear idea in my head about fuelling on marathon day. I think these are are my two options:

• Wear a bottle belt which holds 2 x 170 ml bottles. Plan would be to fill each one with Tailwind prior to the race. Belt will also hold clif bloks for additional fuelling.
  Didn't think I'd want to wear one of these but they're not as cumbersome looking as I thought.
  
  
• Wear a flip belt containing clif bloks and a sachet of tailwind. Plan would be to empty half of sachet of tailwind into one of the bottles handed out at 3 mile water station and same again for water station at mile 13.
  Obviously flipbelts are far more comfortable to wear and would be my preference.

Anyone have any thoughts?

I'm intending (and have done it before) stuffing my High5 energy gels into the phone holder I use when I am running. Holds 4-5 of them.

A belt, etc would drive me mad!!

Rossi7

This Tailwind stuff feels like it's way too much effort,  if I was relying on it I'd get a family member to be out on the course. 13 mile in is along the Crumlin Rd I think so you wouldn't have too much trouble finding someone along there to hand it to you. I have done similar for friends and family at Walkinstown and never had an issue getting fluids to them
Between Cliff Blocks and Sachets of Tailwind, you might as well be running with a Boots Chemists top on you carrying around that amount of stuff

Safiri

coogy wrote: »

Brilliant, thanks!!!

Hey coogy. Just seen your posts about foothpaths and loops there. I'd scratch those routes I mentioned above in that case as they all involve running on country roads or loops on the hills. There really isn't much around here to get close to a 20 mile run without looping at some point. I created this route in strava outlining the private roads in the resort and the footpaths around the village. It only adds up to 6.78 miles but I couldn't add the cartpaths around the course which would bring it to 12 miles. You'll see where I done a short line jutting into the golf course around 2 miles into the route, thats where the cartpath starts. Sorry I can't be of more help but that's kind of the limit around here when it comes to footpaths on the route.

Running around that golf course is like finding a little slice of quiet paradise though if you do decide to do it.

https://www.strava.com/routes/15633974

Safiri

For carrying gels, I always use a safety pin on my shorts and slid e the tab of the gel onto the pin. Then just open it by tearing it and leaving the tab attached. Find it much less obtrusive than a belt when it comes to chafing or just general comfort.

If you are going to use drinks and have someone waiting for you around the course, make sure they are reliable and know their way around. I've had nightmares using this tactic before where people weren't there when I supposed to get my drink.

bucketybuck

RayCun wrote: »

:pac:

If that's your best solution for using tailwind, I think you need to consider not using tailwind.

But I want the achievement for collecting them all!

Griff75

Looks like I’m gone guys. After everything going so well so far I headed out this morning before dawn for the 8 mile run. Tripped and fell about 20 minutes in and couldn’t continue. One x-ray later I have a hairline fracture in my big toe and have it splinted and booted for a week and appointment with orthopaedic consultant then but more than likely 4-6 weeks off. Gutted

bucketybuck

On a more serious note, what I am really looking for is the right container for carrying the Tailwind powder, I think its a really good product and worth trying to make work.

For me the ideal would be a small tube. If anybody has a tube of the Zero tabs then you know what I mean, a smaller version of this.

The two important parts are the lid that can be easily removed and then the fact that the tube is solid, so you can rest it against the lip of a water bottle and quickly pour the powder in. The current sachets of Tailwind are too fiddly, they are a pain to open and they aren't solid so you have to stop dead to pour them in.

If I could find small bullet style tubes that could hold 300ml worth of tailwind I would be laughing, carry a bunch of them in my pockets and easily fill any bottle as I get it!

effibear

Griff75 wrote: »

Looks like I’m gone guys. After everything going so well so far I headed out this morning before dawn for the 8 mile run. Tripped and fell about 20 minutes in and couldn’t continue. One x-ray later I have a hairline fracture in my big toe and have it splinted and booted for a week and appointment with orthopaedic consultant then but more than likely 4-6 weeks off. Gutted

must be very disappointing after all that training- hope you recover well.

skyblue46

I am just totally bamboozled by this whole rush to use tailwind! :pac:

Helenasca

bucketybuck wrote:

If I could find small bullet style tubes that could hold 300ml worth of tailwind I would be laughing, carry a bunch of them in my pockets and easily fill any bottle as I get it!

In halfords they do high 5 cycle kit which contains gels bars etc and a miniature zero tabs tube, think it holds about 5/6 tabs. It's about half the size of the normal tubes.

Helenasca

skyblue46 wrote:

I am just totally bamboozled by this whole rush to use tailwind!

I did go searching yesterday to figure out what the story was with tailwind. But then took a step back and said what I'm doing is working let's not confuse matters. My head is addled enough already with other marathon thoughts not to mind adding to it.

ReeReeG

Griff75 wrote:

Looks like I’m gone guys. After everything going so well so far I headed out this morning before dawn for the 8 mile run. Tripped and fell about 20 minutes in and couldn’t continue. One x-ray later I have a hairline fracture in my big toe and have it splinted and booted for a week and appointment with orthopaedic consultant then but more than likely 4-6 weeks off. Gutted

Oh no!!!!! That's awful, I'm sorry to read that

skyblue46

Helenasca wrote: »

I did go searching yesterday to figure out what the story was with tailwind. But then took a step back and said what I'm doing is working let's not confuse matters. My head is addled enough already with other marathon thoughts not to mind adding to it.

In my humble opinion you are right. It seems a massive amount of messing about to save carrying a few gels in a belt.

bucketybuck

skyblue46 wrote: »

I am just totally bamboozled by this whole rush to use tailwind! :pac:

For myself I simply can't deny that the long runs I used it on all went very well for me, I felt more comfortable and finished stronger on them than I did on some of the shorter runs without it. Plenty of other factors involved of course, but if I had my choice tomorrow I know I would far rather have a bottle of tailwind than any gels. And as such, I'll try to find a way to do that.

skyblue46

bucketybuck wrote: »

For myself I simply can't deny that the long runs I used it on all went very well for me, I felt more comfortable and finished stronger on them than I did on some of the shorter runs without it. Plenty of other factors involved of course, but if I had my choice tomorrow I know I would far rather have a bottle of tailwind than any gels. And as such, I'll try to find a way to do that.

I get you....even if it's a placebo effect it still works for you. That's good.

Safiri

skyblue46 wrote: »

I am just totally bamboozled by this whole rush to use tailwind! :pac:

So am I so I just googled the ingredients there as I thought there might be some new way of making these gels/isotonics. Turns out the answer is nope. Tailwind is made using dextrose while most other gels/drinks use maltodextrien. Both are essentially just sugar. Dextrose is easier to break down at first so it means you absorb it quicker but maltodextrien(other gels like SiS and high 5 iso) is a complex carb so while slower marginally has a longer lasting effect.

Besides that, you are basically just ingesting a load of sugar(a can of flat coke would give the same effect) no matter how each is marketed. If you found something you like and are already comfortable with it, there's no need to change. All gels and drinks are basically one in the same at the end of it all.

Pink11

Hey lads, I jumped on the tailwind wagon a while back. I'm only getting properly back into running the last few months after a really bad 2 year hip injury. I was having major issues with dehydration & energy over the summer - naseua and headaches were taking their toll after long runs. (I have an auto immune disease so this MIGHT be a contributory factor also). The biggest thing I found is that it's easy on my stomach (I have stomach issues so to find something that doesn't turn my stomach is a miracle).

Made a few posts about it, trying to find a way myself to carry it for the big day, think I have found the ideal way to do it now. Here is my latest finding haha readhere: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108167921&postcount=543

Personally I adore the stuff, fixed any problems I was having in terms of hydration & energy (and it defo gives me an extra kick, possibly due to the caffeine) but if you feel you don't need it, perhaps ignore trying to add something new in at this stage. I know plenty of people who manage on sipping water or the odd gel, at the end of the day your body needs to run the marathon, not the help of lotions & potions!

skyblue46

Safiri wrote: »

So am I so I just googled the ingredients there as I thought there might be some new way of making these gels/isotonics. Turns out the answer is nope. Tailwind is made using dextrose while most other gels/drinks use maltodextrien. Both are essentially just sugar. Dextrose is easier to break down at first so it means you absorb it quicker but maltodextrien(other gels like SiS and high 5 iso) is a complex carb so while slower marginally has a longer lasting effect.

Besides that, you are basically just ingesting a load of sugar(a can of flat coke would give the same effect) no matter how each is marketed. If you found something you like and are already comfortable with it, there's no need to change. All gels and drinks are basically one in the same at the end of it all.

For sure. All the body needs are the carbs replaced and at a rate that the body can handle. After that it just becomes a question of convenience....carrying a bunch of bananas on a marathon isn't a viable option.

The other misunderstanding that seems to be out there is the idea that they can make you fitter, faster and stronger. They are a fuel, plain and simple. They enable you to do something for longer but cannot enhance performance levels.

skyblue46

Pink11 wrote: »

Hey lads, I jumped on the tailwind wagon a while back. I'm only getting properly back into running the last few months after a really bad 2 year hip injury. I was having major issues with dehydration & energy over the summer - naseua and headaches were taking their toll after long runs. (I have an auto immune disease so this MIGHT be a contributory factor also). I also wanted to train on 'empty' to try it out.

Made a few posts about it, trying to find a way myself to carry it for the big day, think I have found the ideal way to do it now. Here is my latest finding haha readhere: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108167921&postcount=543

Personally I adore the stuff, fixed any problems I was having in terms of hydration & energy (and it defo gives me an extra kick, possibly due to the caffeine) but if you feel you don't need it, perhaps ignore trying to add something new in at this stage. I know plenty of people who manage on sipping water or the odd gel, at the end of the day your body needs to run the marathon, not the help of lotions & potions!

Oh I think it's very sensible to take fuel on board. I wouldn't be advocating just sipping on water. As you say there are kicks from caffeine and sugar rushes from the sheer volume of the stuff we'll take.

Pink11

skyblue46 wrote: »

Oh I think it's very sensible to take fuel on board. I wouldn't be advocating just sipping on water. As you say there are kicks from caffeine and sugar rushes from the sheer volume of the stuff we'll take.

You can also be sensible with how much you take in. For example, 1 scoop per hour (100 calories) is plenty. So if I do a 4 hour marathon (:D) I will only be taking on 400 calories.

It says on the back of the pack you can take up to 2-3 scoops and turn it into a gloopy gel consistency if you prefer that option.

Everyone is different, but as someone who veers into becoming lightheaded on runs, it works for me.

skyblue46

Pink11 wrote: »

You can also be sensible with how much you take in. For example, 1 scoop per hour (100 calories) is plenty. So if I do a 4 hour marathon (:D) I will only be taking on 400 calories.

It says on the back of the pack you can take up to 2-3 scoops and turn it into a gloopy gel consistency if you prefer that option.

Everyone is different, but as someone who veers into becoming lightheaded on runs, it works for me.

I'd be veering towards 300/320 carb calories per hour. That's 75 to 80 grams of carbs seeing as I will be using about that amount.

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

I am just totally bamboozled by this whole rush to use tailwind! :pac:

Well, I've only used it once so the jury's still out but a lot of people seem to swear by it.

Have tried gels but they're not really for me and Tailwind seems to be something of an 'all-in-one' product.

Singer

I agree that the tailwind meme has gone a bit off the rails. Fueling on a marathon should be as simple and foolproof as possible. Mixing powder during a race or carrying around a lot of liquid on you from the start both sound like last resorts. Tailwind seems well suited for trail runners or when running a looped ultra or something, not something that's that practical for a big city marathon. Exception I guess here would be for folks expecting to be on their feet for a relatively long amount of time (5+ hours?), as fuelling becomes a bigger deal and slowing down to mix the stuff up isn't as impactful to the overall time.

FWIW, last year I used Shot Bloks, Gu gels (with caffeine) and some of the Lucozade supplied on DCM. I knew I was fine with any of them, but having a choice of methods of getting sugar into me seemed to make it a little easier than cramming the same thing down repeatedly. Don't try this for the first time on the day though

ChippyRun

Griff75 wrote: »

Looks like I’m gone guys. After everything going so well so far I headed out this morning before dawn for the 8 mile run. Tripped and fell about 20 minutes in and couldn’t continue. One x-ray later I have a hairline fracture in my big toe and have it splinted and booted for a week and appointment with orthopaedic consultant then but more than likely 4-6 weeks off. Gutted

That is terrible news Griff75, must be very tough to take at this stage. I hope you get back on your feet soon.

coogy

Singer wrote: »

I agree that the tailwind meme has gone a bit off the rails. Fueling on a marathon should be as simple and foolproof as possible. Mixing powder during a race or carrying around a lot of liquid on you from the start both sound like last resorts. Tailwind seems well suited for trail runners or when running a looped ultra or something, not something that's that practical for a big city marathon. Exception I guess here would be for folks expecting to be on their feet for a relatively long amount of time (5+ hours?), as fuelling becomes a bigger deal and slowing down to mix the stuff up isn't as impactful to the overall time.

FWIW, last year I used Shot Bloks, Gu gels (with caffeine) and some of the Lucozade supplied on DCM. I knew I was fine with any of them, but having a choice of methods of getting sugar into me seemed to make it a little easier than cramming the same thing down repeatedly. Don't try this for the first time on the day though

Good points made there. I hold my hand up as being guilty of perhaps over-complicating matters when it comes to fuelling.
It feels like this weekend is the last chance I have to get it right but I think I'll stick with what I'm used to. It's worked ok up to now.....