DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

Hedgehoggy

racersedge wrote: »

Just finished up the Donegal 3/4 Marathon. Quite the trek up in the end. Commitment to the cause when you drive three and a half hours (on some pretty interesting roads at times) for a run!

Morning prep went grand. A good breakfast (admittedly, a sneaky sausage sandwich as well. Shhh!!) and plenty of time after staying in the hotel to relax and stretch out. Weather was spot on. A light shower just before the start. It was a good crowd for the 3/4 and I settled in behind a group to keep myself paced. The first part of the event was a roughly 11K loop. I found after the second water stop at 9K that things started to get strung out. Found a lot of people stopping at these rather than a grab and go strategy as I prefer.

Second part of the loop saw us push on further into the Donegal countryside. Some lovely scenery from the rivers to the valleys to the mountains. Had a grand chat with a runner on the long stretch towards the 21K mark before we headed back towards the finish.

After much debate with myself, I treated this as a trial run for the DCM. Everything I planned to bring on the day. I took the gels on par with when I expected to take them for th marathon and paced myself roughly based on the day. Roughly. That’s the key word. Yeah I was probably a bit quicker than expected overall. I wanted to at least pace myself based on a a minimum pace for a sub-4. I personally feel I did okay. I would argue based on today I’d need to be a little bit more reserved pacewise for the first part to ensure their is plenty in the tank for the final push at the DCM.

Plenty learned today. That’s my last long long run now. I’m shifting my 19K to next Monday as I’m in Sweden from Friday to Sunday. I want to try and squeeze a 5K there so if anyone has any suggestions for Gothenburg, I’m all ears!

Well done! Sounds like a great day!

coogy

Comic Book Guy wrote: »

First time using the High5 gels. Not sure they classify as gels! Reminded me of drinking a melted Mr Freeze but did the job. Had to carry the last one in my hand for few miles as I had finished doing the loops and was on the 6 mile route home, not very nice when warm!

I used gels this morning on my lsr and they worked out a lot better than my last attempt a couple of months ago.
Now I have a flip belt, it's so much easier to manage. Definitely going to use them for dcm.

Supercell

Is anyone here using compression socks on their runs? With my recent calf tribulations I've been reading that they can really help recovery and prevent repeat injury was am going to get a pair and try them out.
I was wondering which brand have been tried by runners here here and considered better than others and if they are worth the investment? Pricing seems nuts for socks, like 30 euro + looking at amazon. If they work though cant put a price on non injured legs!

OOnegative

Supercell wrote: »

Is anyone here using compression socks on their runs? With my recent calf tribulations I've been reading that they can really help recovery and prevent repeat injury was am going to get a pair and try them out.
I was wondering which brand have been tried by runners here here and considered better than others and if they are worth the investment? Pricing seems nuts for socks, like 30 euro + looking at amazon. If they work though cant put a price on non injured legs!

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/compression-socks-id_8382151.html

Have used these from time to time myself when shins are at me, do the job and won’t break the bank either.

RayCun

I have a few pairs of these
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Calves-Kelson-pairs）-Compression-Circulation/dp/B071KKG663/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1538324723&sr=1-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=Calves+Kelson&dpPl=1&dpID=51VB7Cp6aCL&ref=plSrch
It might be all placebo anyway, so at least this is a cheaper placebo

skyblue46

Supercell wrote: »

Is anyone here using compression socks on their runs? With my recent calf tribulations I've been reading that they can really help recovery and prevent repeat injury was am going to get a pair and try them out.
I was wondering which brand have been tried by runners here here and considered better than others and if they are worth the investment? Pricing seems nuts for socks, like 30 euro + looking at amazon. If they work though cant put a price on non injured legs!

I'll say this one last time because I really want you to make it to and through DCM. I know I'm like a broken record but I'll give it one last try. Compression socks or sleeves are remedial. You should be looking at preventing the problem from arising in the first place. Since your return from your injury you have knocked out runs at average paces of 8:06, 8:14, 7:46, 8:12, 8:08 and 8:36. This is simply too fast and has no recovery or easy runs included. Recovery will help calf muscles more than sleeves. Sorry if it comes across wrong but you have to slow it down.

kittyclaws

Had hoped to do 21 miles this weekend but my body rebelled I started to feel sick on Wednesday, struggled slowly thru my 8 miles, there was absolutely nothing in the tank so I suspected I was coming down with something. I felt lightheaded & nauseous on Thursday so skipped the 4 mile easy run. Friday I felt like death so took a half day off work and went home to bed. Woke at 9pm and had a bowl of pasta in the hopes of doing my long run the next day, then went back to bed.
Saturday morning I felt a good bit better so decided to give it a go. I brought taxi fare with me just in case.
I felt ok for the first 13 miles, I was running with a group that is slower than my usual pace and the added time on my feet took its toll, by mile 13 I was exhausted and my body was aching. I passed my car at the 18 mile mark and decided to call it a day. Skipped today’s recovery run, I think a recovery lie-in was more beneficial
I’ve longwood next weekend so I’m hoping to add an extra bit to that, mentally I need to do 21/22 miles.
Best of luck to everyone this week - it’s the last big week on the plan, then time for taper madness to kick in

Dealerz2.0

kittyclaws wrote: »

Had hoped to do 21 miles this weekend but my body rebelled I started to feel sick on Wednesday, struggled slowly thru my 8 miles, there was absolutely nothing in the tank so I suspected I was coming down with something. I felt lightheaded & nauseous on Thursday so skipped the 4 mile easy run. Friday I felt like death so took a half day off work and went home to bed. Woke at 9pm and had a bowl of pasta in the hopes of doing my long run the next day, then went back to bed.
Saturday morning I felt a good bit better so decided to give it a go. I brought taxi fare with me just in case.
I felt ok for the first 13 miles, I was running with a group that is slower than my usual pace and the added time on my feet took its toll, by mile 13 I was exhausted and my body was aching. I passed my car at the 18 mile mark and decided to call it a day. Skipped today’s recovery run, I think a recovery lie-in was more beneficial
I’ve longwood next weekend so I’m hoping to add an extra bit to that, mentally I need to do 21/22 miles.
Best of luck to everyone this week - it’s the last big week on the plan, then time for taper madness to kick in

18 miles is a great result- well done!

incentsitive

After last weekends meltdown, I managed my 18 miler today. I was absolutely shattered by the end of it though and had me wondering how I am going to do another 8 miles. I have done the marathon twice but they were a good few years ago and I had almost forgot how far it is!
Anyway, it was a great morning/afternoon for running, ran a good chunk of the route from Rathgar to Roebuck Hill. Great banter out there on the route this morning and plenty of hello's etc and a massive high-5 to a man heading up Roebuck Road when I was on the way down - he looked like he needed the encouragement, I needed it myself too!!
I was really struggling towards the end I have to admit and my pace was crawling pace. But it was good to get 18 miles into the legs before Longwood next weekend when I might even add a sneaky 0.35 mile loop down some side road to bring me up to the 20 miles. I will decide then whether that is it or if I want to do 1 more 20 miler the following weekend...will see!
While I am enjoying the training I am ready for it to end at this stage, I haven't spent a Sunday out with my other half in ages it feels as Sunday is about running and recovery! Sure anyway, this day 4 weeks it will be all over!

skyblue46

Another 20 miler with 2 weeks to go....Don't do it.

OOnegative

skyblue46 wrote: »

Another 20 miler with 2 weeks to go....Don't do it.

+1, and do not race Longwood. To many people have left good marathon results behind them by racing the 3/4 marathon flat out.

skyblue46

OOnegative wrote: »

+1, and do not race Longwood. To many people have left good marathon results behind them by racing the 3/4 marathon flat out.

What group are you pacing in DCM?

Dealerz2.0

OOnegative wrote: »

+1, and do not race Longwood. To many people have left good marathon results behind them by racing the 3/4 marathon flat out.

Thanks for advice, so would you suggest treating longwood as an lsr, go with the 105% pacers, or something in between?

skyblue46

Dealerz2.0 wrote: »

Thanks for advice, so would you suggest treating longwood as an lsr, go with the 105% pacers, or something in between?

Your plan has an LSR and that's what you should do. Anything near race effort takes a couple of weeks to recover from especially when you are not used to the pace and distance. Keep to main thing the main thing....Just felt like quoting Ronseal! :pac:

ariana`

skyblue46 wrote: »

Your plan has an LSR and that's what you should do. Anything near race effort takes a couple of weeks to recover from especially when you are not used to the pace and distance. Keep to main thing the main thing....Just felt like quoting Ronseal! :pac:

To add to this they say to allow 1 day recovery (rest or very easy recovery pace running) for every 1 mile raced! So do the maths and racing 20m 3 weeks before the marathon really doesn't add up.

Dealerz2.0

ariana` wrote: »

To add to this they say to allow 1 day recovery (rest or very easy recovery pace running) for every 1 mile raced! So do the maths and racing 20m 3 weeks before the marathon really doesn't add up.

Won’t be racing it, but I’ll probably do it at pmp. Thanks

skyblue46

Dealerz2.0 wrote: »

Won’t be racing it, but I’ll probably do it at pmp. Thanks

Even that is a bit much...20 miles at MP is racing it.

Dealerz2.0

skyblue46 wrote: »

Even that is a bit much...20 miles at MP is racing it.

Thanks

ariana`

Wow so this is it, the last week before taper madness takes over

Plan|Monday|Tuesday|Wed|Thurs|Fri|Sat|Sun
NNH1|rest|5m easy|10m easy|5m easy|rest|20m LSR|cross
Boards|rest, cross or 3m rec|5m easy|1m w/u, 5m pace, 1m c/d|3m rec|rest, cross or 3m rec|18m LSR|3m rec


This is a monster week for those of you following the NNH1 Plan! Just make sure you keep easy easy and have confidence in yourself - you've been building up to this week for the last 14 weeks and you can do it, it's the final push!

A lot of big 20-22 mile runs appeared on Strava this weekend - it's fantastic to see and i congratulate you all, you are doing amazing work. But two things i'd like to say, firstly, i don't want anyone to panic if they haven't run 20 miles yet (or 22 :eek:), people came into this process from different backgrounds, and it doesn't mean that the miles you are running and the plan you've been following won't get you around! Trust the plan

And secondly please everyone make sure you are allowing adequate recovery after these runs. Recovery is three fold - refuel as quickly as possible, get your rest/sleep AND keep prescribed recovery runs at recovery pace!! Those are all essential parts of recovery, the optional extras are the espom salt baths, ice baths, foam rolling etc.

I know some of you intend to take part in various different 3/4 marathons next weekend, these are fantastic events but please don't attempt to race. Both of our plans have LSRs prescribed for next weekend, taking part in an event is a great way of doing an LSR with company but there's no "RACE" in "LONG SLOW RUN"

Next weekend is a last chance to practice fueling (before and during) and your outfit for the big day. By this time next week you need to have these nailed down!

And last thing before i sign off, tomorrow is October 1st, you have only 4 weeks left so at this stage i would like to impose a curfew of 10pm!!! Any novice who posts on these forums after 10pm between tomorrow night and October 27th (inclusive) shall have the wrath of the mentors fall on them :eek:

So this is it, the last big week, the final push, whatever way you want to look at it it is just 7 days, 7 more days which will bring you within a roar of your marathon dream, keeping plugging away, you've all come so far, this is the final stretch! Have a great week's running folks

skyblue46

Curfew? :pac:

smeal

Had a great running weekend. Took on the Monaghan Half Marathon today with my club. Had planned on doing 6 slow miles before it to bring me to the promised land of 18 miles but was advised by more experienced runners to do just 4 as the HM itself is tough terrain (mostly through park on gravel) and at race pace would be worth at least 15 on the legs so took on board their advice.

So myself and a few club friends took in a 4 mile loop beforehand and planned it so that we wouldn’t have more than a few minutes to wait at the start line to avoid getting cold. Great buzz about and we took off with a small 2 mile lap of the town and then out to Rossmore Park for two laps of the park. This is my hometown and I run regularly in the park so was dreading some of the hills that Rossmore can throw at you but the route avoided some of the horror hills and took in some nice pulls with lovely recovery downhills after.

I honestly wasn’t sure where the energy came from but I was in great form. Felt a small niggle in my knee at about mile 10, the same knee that gave me a bit of trouble with the IT band over the summer, so pulled back the pace for a few hundred metres and managed to keep any escalation of pain at bay. Took 2 gels with me and desperately needed the second one at about 11 mile which thankfully kicked in straight away. Came in at 2.01!! A PB. Buzzing!

I forced a cup of tea and a bun into me after the race but felt quite sick for the rest of the day. Never seem to have an appetite after a race and understandbly so as our insides must be upside down at times. Just about managed to eat a small bowl of chicken curry and rice at about 6pm so hoping I’m not too fatigued tomorrow. Using football training tomorrow as my recovery and don’t think I will run until Wednesday. Roll on Longwood 3/4 next weekend!

Murph_D

Football training? Very risky at this stage. Might consider a break til after DCM? Probably been mentioned already!

RayCun

Not to mention posting after 10p.m.!

Eoineo

Well done everybody on the fantastic runs over the weekend & commiserations on the injuries. As my other half has had to pull out to injury I can tell you that the closer the marathon gets the greater the misery.


I had a disastrous LSR on Saturday when I had to pull up at 15 mile mark due to pain. Not injury just all around pain which is no doubt due to me slacking on my midweek training runs and not stretching enough. So back to yoga this morning and a renewed appreciation for my strength and conditioning work to date.


What has been working though is the Hi-5 Carb drink mixed with water in my running bottles, which sit into my pack. Because I'm a slogger I'll be out on the course for over 6 hours so I've had to seriously look at how I'm going to manage my energy. I got this in the local cycle shop in the Hi-5 sample pack and once I realised it was working I was happy enough to buy more.


I've had to review my sleep hours and bring back my bedtime to 9pm at the latest in the past week. I start my days at 5.30am and hadn't been getting enough sleep.



My final LSR is the Lusk 20 on Saturday, to be done at LSR pace. It's close to home so I booked it with the knowledge that quite a few of club members will be there which really helps. Is anybody else heading to Lusk?

incentsitive

Eoineo wrote: »

My final LSR is the Lusk 20 on Saturday, to be done at LSR pace. It's close to home so I booked it with the knowledge that quite a few of club members will be there which really helps. Is anybody else heading to Lusk?

Damn I hadn't even heard about this one. Doing Longwood on Sunday but Saturday would have been far better. Some of these events really need to be publicised better.

Eoineo

incentsitive wrote: »

Damn I hadn't even heard about this one. Doing Longwood on Sunday but Saturday would have been far better. Some of these events really need to be publicised better.

There's an EOI group on Facebook, I'm not a member but considering joining. I heard about it from another running club member. It's sold out at the moment but might be worth joining the group to see can you get drop-out tickets?

aloooof

ariana` wrote: »

Any novice who posts on these forums after 10pm between tomorrow night and October 27th (inclusive) shall have the wrath of the mentors fall on them :eek:

We're well used to this from Skyblue but it'll be completely new from yourself and KellyGirl, Ariana! :pac:

incentsitive

Eoineo wrote: »

There's an EOI group on Facebook, I'm not a member but considering joining. I heard about it from another running club member. It's sold out at the moment but might be worth joining the group to see can you get drop-out tickets?

Ah I will stick with Longwood at this stage, I'll need the extra day to recover from the 18 miler anyway!

To bring me over the 20 mile, would people suggest starting running 0.35 miles from the start line or take a mini detour on route? I think mentally as much as anything I need to get across the 20 mile threshold this weekend.

Singer

incentsitive wrote: »

Ah I will stick with Longwood at this stage, I'll need the extra day to recover from the 18 miler anyway!

To bring me over the 20 mile, would people suggest starting running 0.35 miles from the start line or take a mini detour on route? I think mentally as much as anything I need to get across the 20 mile threshold this weekend.

Don't take a detour. The difference that the 0.35 miles makes is non-existent really, just focus on running the course well on the day. If you really must, then do a half-mile warmup immediately beforehand.

RayCun

Go for a cool down afterwards. Or a warm up before.
Don't take a diversion!