DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

coogy

eyrie wrote: »

I can't figure out the fuelling advice and what to do for the marathon. From looking at the various calculators about how much you need to take on, it seems to equate to 2-3 gels per hour (something like 45-60g carbs per hour?) which I can't imagine getting close to, and it seems like no one really does. So do you make it up with other things too (lucozade, etc), or do people just generally take on way less carbs than that recommendation?

It's only in the last week or two that I've managed to get an idea of what I'll need with me on the day.

I figure I'll be using four gels (definitely no more than five) and about three/four clif bloks. Will probably take along a couple of half Zero tabs to drop in the bottled water at the water stations.

Damo 2k9

coogy wrote: »

It's only in the last week or two that I've managed to get an idea of what I'll need with me on the day.

I figure I'll be using four gels (definitely no more than five) and about three/four clif bloks. Will probably take along a couple of half Zero tabs to drop in the bottled water at the water stations.

Great idea, something me and a few others done last year. Although they are small bottles, so may want to break them in half before the race! The bag of spare buttons you get with jackets/trousers, are dead handy for holding them, although being from Finglas I should be a bit careful! :pac:

Rossi7

Same strategy as me Ken, I'll have a fifth one as a "breakglass in case of emergency" scenario.

Kellygirl

eyrie wrote: »

Thanks Rossi, I have a flipbelt that I use actually, I just meant I've never tried to figure out how many gels can fit into it. Usually I have my phone and keys in there so it's bulky enough already, but I guess I won't need them during the race Must buy a few gels and test it out. I can always get an extra armband or something as incentsitive suggests if necessary

I carried 7 in my flipbelt last year and zero tablets and my phone in the zipped pocket.

eyrie

Kellygirl wrote: »

I carried 7 in my flipbelt last year and zero tablets and my phone in the zipped pocket.

Oh impressive! Wouldn't have thought it'd fit near that many. Although mine doesn't have a zipped pocked so it must be a slightly different one. Ha I'm going to have fun practicing this later

coogy

eyrie wrote: »

Oh impressive! Wouldn't have thought it'd fit near that many. Although mine doesn't have a zipped pocked so it must be a slightly different one. Ha I'm going to have fun practicing this later

I think there's two sizes in the flip belt. The bigger size is good for carrying phones/cards etc.
The smaller size works for me just perfectly!

bucketybuck

Is it not dangerous to think "I only needed 2 or 3 gels for the 20 miler, I can't imagine taking more than that"?

I've often heard that the marathon is two parts, a 20 mile run followed by a 6 mile race, and its that 6 miles that is the real test. What was good enough for the 20 miles could be a different story when you push past that, when you try to run four or five hours instead of three.

If you are under-fueled when you get to the 21/22 mile point then the likelihood is that you are going to hit that wall and hit it hard. I know when I did DCM in 2016 I didn't quite hit the wall, but in that last stretch I was definitely far more drained of energy than I had ever been in any LSR, the biggest thing I took from that day was that I needed more than just water and Cliff Bloks.

Everybody is different, but my advise would be that if you only needed 2/3 gels for the LSR, that you should still bring more and take more for the marathon itself. Its not a LSR after all, its longer and faster than that.

ariana`

eyrie wrote: »

Oh impressive! Wouldn't have thought it'd fit near that many. Although mine doesn't have a zipped pocked so it must be a slightly different one. Ha I'm going to have fun practicing this later

You could try bringing it on a short run! I don't have a flip belt but i have a similar Ronhill stretchy waist band and it sits differently when it's fully loaded up! I guess the weight pulls it down a bit, granted it is slightly big for me which is probably part of the reason but it might be no harm to get a feel for what you intend to carry on the day.

eyrie

ariana` wrote: »

You could try bringing it on a short run! I don't have a flip belt but i have a similar Ronhill stretchy waist band and it sits differently when it's fully loaded up! I guess the weight pulls it down a bit, granted it is slightly big for me which is probably part of the reason but it might be no harm to get a feel for what you intend to carry on the day.

I was just thinking that! This is gas - I'm going to have to go and buy a load of gels just to practise carrying them around And here I thought marathon training was all about the running...

RayCun

ariana` wrote: »

You could try bringing it on a short run!

Definitely.

If you haven't done one already, run this weekend's long run as a full dress rehearsal. If you plan on carrying gels, tablets, drinks... bring them all with you on the run. Maybe the belt you wear moves around when loaded up. Maybe you can't fit as much in your pockets as you thought. Maybe you can't get at your salt tablets, or they dissolve in your pocket. Maybe your t-shirt chafes under all of this.

Don't find out on marathon day.

incentsitive

bucketybuck wrote: »

Is it not dangerous to think "I only needed 2 or 3 gels for the 20 miler, I can't imagine taking more than that"?

I've often heard that the marathon is two parts, a 20 mile run followed by a 6 mile race, and its that 6 miles that is the real test. What was good enough for the 20 miles could be a different story when you push past that, when you try to run four or five hours instead of three.

If you are under-fueled when you get to the 21/22 mile point then the likelihood is that you are going to hit that wall and hit it hard. I know when I did DCM in 2016 I didn't quite hit the wall, but in that last stretch I was definitely far more drained of energy than I had ever been in any LSR, the biggest thing I took from that day was that I needed more than just water and Cliff Bloks.

Everybody is different, but my advise would be that if you only needed 2/3 gels for the LSR, that you should still bring more and take more for the marathon itself. Its not a LSR after all, its longer and faster than that.

Only my personal experience, but I know for sure after the weekend that there is no way I could have taken another energy gel with how I felt at 20 miles. That was my point! I'll be relying on my army/entourage/hangers on to provide me with inspiration from 20 miles on I suspect!!

skyblue46

I have to agree with Bucketybuck and Lazare on this one. The research is very clear on this. There are generally accepted rates at which we need to replenish carbohydrates. Any less than this and you risk hitting the wall. The amount of fuel needed for 26 miles at MP is obviously a lot different to 20 miles at LSR pace or 9/10 miles at MP. If you feel you cannot stomach more than 2/3/4 gels then find other forms of fuel...energy bars, bananas, energy drinks, jellies. Please don't set out on a maiden marathon with 3/4 gels and a couple of haribo sweets in your pocket.

imknackered

+1 on what some of the others have said. I only take 2-3 gels on a 21 mile run but am planning on 5 on the day.

What i did in 2013 which served me well was a gel at the start line then 5, 9, 14 & 17 miles. lets you get the gels in early before you feel too tired to take them.

They also give out some gels at two points of the course so you could use them too if you only want to carry 4 with you.

OOnegative

Running Köln Marathon last weekend I took 4 gels in total, one before starting, then 10km, 20km, 30km. I had another with me but wasn’t able to stomach it, I also took 2 500ml bottles of Tailwind which the better half gave me on course at 14.5km and 24.5km. Took water at every water stop also. It’s best to err on side of caution and have enough gels, I figured I wouldn’t take 4 but carried an extra one in the off chance I felt I needed it.

Rossi7

Not sure what benefit you would get from a gel before a race given that you would have a decent breakfast behind you

Eoineo

Rossi7 wrote: »

Not sure what benefit you would get from a gel before a race given that you would have a decent breakfast behind you

Wave 4 starts at 9:45am but the wheelchair wave starts nearly an hour before this. We can expect to be in the corral area for at about an hour before a race starts if we are in Wave 4. I can see why people would benefit from a gel just before starting the race especially if they've been standing around for a good bit beforehand or travelled to get to Dublin City Centre to get there - as is my case.

OOnegative

Rossi7 wrote: »

Not sure what benefit you would get from a gel before a race given that you would have a decent breakfast behind you

More fuel the better.

Rossi7

OOnegative wrote: »

Rossi7 wrote: »

Not sure what benefit you would get from a gel before a race given that you would have a decent breakfast behind you

More fuel the better.

Would you not get more fuel from a bagel than a gel

OOnegative

Rossi7 wrote: »

Would you not get more fuel from a bagel than a gel

If that’s what you prefer, eat one before the off if it is sits better than a gel. Doubt you’d fit many in a gel belt though!!!

incentsitive

Rossi7 wrote: »

Would you not get more fuel from a bagel than a gel

I definitely could have stomached a banana (which is my go-to guy), bar, etc at 20 miles at the weekend, but more energy gels no way I reckon! We are all different I suppose!

Rossi7

OOnegative wrote: »

Rossi7 wrote: »

Would you not get more fuel from a bagel than a gel

If that’s what you prefer, eat one before the off if it is sits better than a gel. Doubt you’d fit many in a gel belt though!!!

I said before not during, having something other than a gel prevents you having nothing but sugars for 3-5 hrs.

ariana`

Eoineo wrote: »

Wave 4 starts at 9:45am but the wheelchair wave starts nearly an hour before this. We can expect to be in the corral area for at about an hour before a race starts if we are in Wave 4. I can see why people would benefit from a gel just before starting the race especially if they've been standing around for a good bit beforehand or travelled to get to Dublin City Centre to get there - as is my case.

Definitely recommend having something in your hand at the start line (a banana or a gel are both convenient), there's a lot of hanging around, you will have expended energy just waiting to go. It's a good idea to be taking sips of water during this time too.

OOnegative

Rossi7 wrote: »

I said before not during, having something other than a gel prevents you having nothing but sugars for 3-5 hrs.

I was joking.

ariana`

incentsitive wrote: »

I definitely could have stomached a banana (which is my go-to guy), bar, etc at 20 miles at the weekend, but more energy gels no way I reckon! We are all different I suppose!

We are all different, it's trial and error to some degree (for first and even second timers) but it's important to be as prepared as possible, i wouldn't like to see anyone winging it on a 26.2m run so now is the time to be asking all of these questions, debating and getting your fueling plan finalised.

Out of interest incentsitive, do you plan to carry bananas around?

incentsitive

ariana` wrote: »

We are all different, it's trial and error to some degree (for first and even second timers) but it's important to be as prepared as possible, i wouldn't like to see anyone winging it on a 26.2m run so now is the time to be asking all of these questions, debating and getting your fueling plan finalised.

Out of interest incentsitive, do you plan to carry bananas around?

No, my LSR's looped back to the house, or the car, bananas were there. I only eat 2 of them, I might have a 3rd one for the marathon. I will know people at 8 miles, 13 miles and 17 miles approximately.

cullenswood

OOnegative wrote: »

Running Köln Marathon last weekend I took 4 gels in total, one before starting, then 10km, 20km, 30km. I had another with me but wasn’t able to stomach it, I also took 2 500ml bottles of Tailwind which the better half gave me on course at 14.5km and 24.5km. Took water at every water stop also. It’s best to err on side of caution and have enough gels, I figured I wouldn’t take 4 but carried an extra one in the off chance I felt I needed it.

Did you use many gels in your training?

OOnegative

cullenswood wrote: »

Did you use many gels in your training?

Depending on the run, none, took max one if I was doing 20 miles. Nothing on anything shorter if my memory is correct.

ariana`

incentsitive wrote: »

No, my LSR's looped back to the house, or the car, bananas were there. I only eat 2 of them, I might have a 3rd one for the marathon. I will know people at 8 miles, 13 miles and 17 miles approximately.

Great, you sound well organised. The only i would say is eating a banana at race pace might be harder than on an LSR? And also just make sure you have a back up plan in case you miss your supporters!

Sorry if these are obvious things - just trying to play devils advocate!

Testosterscone

coogy wrote: »

Will probably take along a couple of half Zero tabs to drop in the bottled water at the water stations.

If you can get them. The High 5 Marathon packs that you sometimes see on sale in Lidl/Aldi actually have a few samplers of these. The benefit is that each tablet is individually packaged. Good way to be able to pin them to shorts and take as needed without fear of them dissolving (sweat, water poured over head, missed mouth while running) before they hit the water bottle.

coogy

Testosterscone wrote: »

If you can get them. The High 5 Marathon packs that you sometimes see on sale in Lidl/Aldi actually have a few samplers of these. The benefit is that each tablet is individually packaged. Good way to be able to pin them to shorts and take as needed without fear of them dissolving (sweat, water poured over head, missed mouth while running) before they hit the water bottle.

Great idea!

I could always hang them from the peak of my cap and grab one whenever I need it!







Kidding.