DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

Lazare

Rossi7 wrote: »

Not sure what benefit you would get from a gel before a race given that you would have a decent breakfast behind you

You're just keeping yourself topped up.

I had my breakfast at about 5.30am that morning, gun was over four hours later so I felt it wise to begin fueling. As said above, the pre race fuel doesn't have to be a gel, eat whatever suits you.

For me, every half hour then is optimal given they can take that long to fully enter the bloodstream.

Waiting until you think you need it means not getting it for 30 minutes.

Kellygirl

When I did my first marathon I took isogels every 45 mins. I got into trouble and ran out of energy at 21 miles. I was walking and somebody handed me a mars bar which I demolished. Walked the next while and then got a surge of energy and my last 2-3 miles or so were my strongest. It was purely a fueling issue. DCM last year was my 2nd marathon and I took isogels every 30 mins and could have kept running at the end!

Based on that I’d rather take as much as I can handle rather than risk running out of energy again.

Another tip I was given after my first, which may be relevant, was by a local coach and I was discussing hitting the wall and she asked about my carb loading and if I had allowed myself go hungry the day before the marathon. I had as was wandering round the expo starving and then went for lunch. Her point was that I was eating into the glycogen I’d been busy building up by doing that. I’m not sure how correct all that is scientifically but it made sense to me and I’ve watched myself ever since.

Naked Lepper

did my longest run last week - 31k - was going for the 32k as per plan but just did 31 as it was convenient for me at the time with my route (plus i was knackered)

next was 8km on tues, was not easy on tired legs but finished it

today was supposed to do 15k, only managed ten - dont know what was wrong with me but i just could not go on and zero energy. a lot of the start of my route today was uphill (85m elevation in total according to strava)

a bit gutted, left knee is a bit sore lately too so did not want to push myself to the edge for the sake of 5k

this will be my first marathon so am a little apprehensive about it all. anyone else have days like this where it does not click

Kellygirl

Speaking of fueling, I followed this plan last year from Irish Runner Magazine for race week nutrition and have done so for each marathon since. Somebody might find it useful.

Kellygirl

Naked Lepper wrote: »

did my longest run last week - 31k - was going for the 32k as per plan but just did 31 as it was convenient for me at the time with my route (plus i was knackered)

next was 8km on tues, was not easy on tired legs but finished it

today was supposed to do 15k, only managed ten - dont know what was wrong with me but i just could not go on and zero energy. a lot of the start of my route today was uphill (85m elevation in total according to strava)

a bit gutted, left knee is a bit sore lately too so did not want to push myself to the edge for the sake of 5k

this will be my first marathon so am a little apprehensive about it all. anyone else have days like this where it does not click

Everybody has bad days and the body is just giving out a bit after the hard training cycle. Time to really look after yourself now though and you did the right thing not pushing it.

Are you going to get the knee looked at?

imknackered

Kellygirl wrote: »

Speaking of fueling, I followed this plan last year from Irish Runner Magazine for race week nutrition and have done so for each marathon since. Somebody might find it useful.

That's a pretty handy breakdown for marathon week. Thanks for sharing Kellygirl

Naked Lepper

Kellygirl wrote: »

Everybody has bad days and the body is just giving out a bit after the hard training cycle. Time to really look after yourself now though and you did the right thing not pushing it.

Are you going to get the knee looked at?

thanks for the msg, will take it handy if this type of thing comes up again
i may have the knee looked at by a physio but not sure yet, prob just a minor niggle tbf

Helenasca

Eoineo wrote:

Wave 4 starts at 9:45am but the wheelchair wave starts nearly an hour before this. We can expect to be in the corral area for at about an hour before a race starts if we are in Wave 4.

I hadn't thought about this before. I'm on wave 4 do we need to be there that early before the off?

Kellygirl

Helenasca wrote: »

I hadn't thought about this before. I'm on wave 4 do we need to be there that early before the off?

Last year we all met between 7:45 and 8am, chatted for a bit and then headed off to queue for loo stops etc which took an enormous amount of time. I remember Ariana and I just reaching the top of our queue as the 9am group started. We were in wave 4 and had jumped ahead to use loos and then joined them. Every time a wave went then we were moved forward so we kind of needed to be there alright.

Luckily we’d great weather so didn’t notice the wait but I think you’d need to be there early enough alright.

Helenasca

Kellygirl wrote:

Last year we all met between 7:45 and 8am, chatted for a bit and then headed off to queue for loo stops etc which took an enormous amount of time. I remember Ariana and I just reaching the top of our queue as the 9am group started. We were in wave 4 and had jumped ahead to use loos and then joined them. Every time a wave went then we were moved forward so we kind of needed to be there alright.

Wow. OK there was me planning a nice leisurely breakfast and a stroll over to the start. Obviously a bit silly in hindsight. I'll rethink things now.

Where I'm staying is only 15 walk from the start line so I won't have to worry about the toilet queues.

Tks for that.

Kellygirl

Helenasca wrote: »

Wow. OK there was me planning a nice leisurely breakfast and a stroll over to the start. Obviously a bit silly in hindsight. I'll rethink things now.

Where I'm staying is only 15 walk from the start line so I won't have to worry about the toilet queues.

Tks for that.

Ooh we might all visit you so

I tend to be early for everything anyway and you can prob relax a little when you are in the last wave at least but if you want to be up the front of the wave or anything then you’d need to be there early enough.

effibear

Somehow I got it into my head it’s a gel every 6 miles so was going to bring 4. Glad I saw this on fuelling. What’s the advise for plodders like me? A gel every 30 mins is a lot of gels when I’m looking realistically at a 5 hr marathon?

skyblue46

effibear wrote: »

Somehow I got it into my head it’s a gel every 6 miles so was going to bring 4. Glad I saw this on fuelling. What’s the advise for plodders like me? A gel every 30 mins is a lot of gels when I’m looking realistically at a 5 hr marathon?

There is no reason for the idea of a minimum of 65g of carbs per hour to change because someone considers themselves a plodder. Presumably you will be working as hard as anyone else to complete the distance irrespective of time.

Eoineo

effibear wrote: »

Somehow I got it into my head it’s a gel every 6 miles so was going to bring 4. Glad I saw this on fuelling. What’s the advise for plodders like me? A gel every 30 mins is a lot of gels when I’m looking realistically at a 5 hr marathon?

I used 2 carb/electrolyte drinks on the 20 mile last weekend. Brought 1 gel on standby and didn’t use it but did bring about 10 jellybeans to eat at the 4 hour mark. The carb drinks are equivalent to about 2.5 gels each. My marathon plan as a snail runner is to fuel with a sip every 5km or so. This first time for me is about doing what I can to get over the line.

effibear

skyblue46 wrote: »

There is no reason for the idea of a minimum of 65g of carbs per hour to change because someone considers themselves a plodder. Presumably you will be working as hard as anyone else to complete the distance irrespective of time.

Makes sense, i should have looked into this sooner the fuelling thing has always confused me so I kind of put it on the long finger. I’ve yet to even google what this tailwind stuff is!!

I’ll trial having the gels closer together on my long run this week and carrying them :-o

effibear

Eoineo wrote: »

I used 2 carb/electrolyte drinks on the 20 mile last weekend. Brought 1 gel on standby and didn’t use it but did bring about 10 jellybeans to eat at the 4 hour mark. The carb drinks are equivalent to about 2.5 gels each. My marathon plan as a snail runner is to fuel with a sip every 5km or so. This first time for me is about doing what I can to get over the line.

I had isotonic drinks my first few long runs but weirdly I always felt really thirsty with them. Could be a coincidence as it was around the time of the glorious summer. Do the zero tabs count?

Kellygirl

effibear wrote: »

I had isotonic drinks my first few long runs but weirdly I always felt really thirsty with them. Could be a coincidence as it was around the time of the glorious summer. Do the zero tabs count?

Not as energy - they are just for hydration. Don’t be thinking about tailwind at this stage. Stick to whatever gels you have tried.

Aoifemcc19

Ok I'm breaking curfew but I've only learned about curfew HA!!! Have stupidly not been on boards for over a MONTH as strava was keeping me going but I tuned back in tonight and have been hooked so I'm still awake past curfew!!! Reading lying down so I think that counts as resting! Anyway glad to be back on, I've laughed, cried (well almost), enjoyed the snappy retorts and the last few days talk of the actual race now have me fecking terrified!!! There will be NO SLEEP TONIGHT!!! :eek:

Eoineo

effibear wrote: »

I had isotonic drinks my first few long runs but weirdly I always felt really thirsty with them. Could be a coincidence as it was around the time of the glorious summer. Do the zero tabs count?

No the isotonic drinks or zero tabs aren't great for energy. They're for electrolytes/hydration. They contain some salt so no surprises you felt thirsty afterwards. For example to get 140kcal from a lucozade sport you'd need to drink a 500ml bottle.



This is the energy/carb drink I'm talking about. https://highfive.co.uk/product/hydration/energydrink/ which is far higher in kcal/carbs content.

effibear

Eoineo wrote: »

No the isotonic drinks or zero tabs aren't great for energy. They're for electrolytes/hydration. They contain some salt so no surprises you felt thirsty afterwards. For example to get 140kcal from a lucozade sport you'd need to drink a 500ml bottle.



This is the energy/carb drink I'm talking about. https://highfive.co.uk/product/hydration/energydrink/ which is far higher in kcal/carbs content.

Thanks I have some of those actually in sample pack of high 5 I got so I might give that a go at the weekend. That or find a better belt to carry the gels.

skyblue46

Eoineo wrote: »

No the isotonic drinks or zero tabs aren't great for energy. They're for electrolytes/hydration. They contain some salt so no surprises you felt thirsty afterwards. For example to get 140kcal from a lucozade sport you'd need to drink a 500ml bottle.



This is the energy/carb drink I'm talking about. https://highfive.co.uk/product/hydration/energydrink/ which is far higher in kcal/carbs content.

If I could just make a suggestion here. Nearly all the packaging for energy products and the advice given regarding required intake levels during a marathon makes reference to grams of carbohydrates. To avoid confusion I think we should also talk in terms of grams. Throwing kcals into the conversation might cause confusion.

skyblue46

https://www.indi.ie/fact-sheets/fact-sheets-on-sports-nutrition/547-food-and-fluid-for-your-marathon.html

There are some useful guidelines in this....

aloooof

Kellygirl wrote: »

Speaking of fueling, I followed this plan last year from Irish Runner Magazine for race week nutrition and have done so for each marathon since. Somebody might find it useful.

"Lunch is a key meal. This is the time to really up the portion sizes and dessert would be a really good idea."

Music to my ears, KellyGirl! :pac:

eyrie

aloooof wrote: »

"Lunch is a key meal. This is the time to really up the portion sizes and dessert would be a really good idea."

Music to my ears, KellyGirl! :pac:

Lol I spotted that too.

Hedgehoggy

Kellygirl wrote: »

Speaking of fueling, I followed this plan last year from Irish Runner Magazine for race week nutrition and have done so for each marathon since. Somebody might find it useful.

Thanks for this!

Djoucer

OOnegative wrote: »

More fuel the better.

That’s not true at all. You can only store so much fuel.

These days, people are far more likely to eat too much in the days before a marathon and on the day itself. Double helpings and all the craic. People see carb loading as trying to stuff as much food in as possible.

Then switching to sugar minutes before a race isn’t ideal for everyone.

Personally, if I’m taking a gel before the race, i’ve messed up my pre race prep really badly.

OOnegative

Djoucer wrote: »

That’s not true at all. You can only store so much fuel.

These days, people are far more likely to eat too much in the days before a marathon and on the day itself. Double helpings and all the craic. People see carb loading as trying to stuff as much food in as possible.

Then switching to sugar minutes before a race isn’t ideal for everyone.

Personally, if I’m taking a gel before the race, i’ve messed up my pre race prep really badly.

Each to there own, what works for you might not work for me, as was pointed out above we all work differently. My belief was the more fuel in the system you have to burn the less likely you are to run “out” and I don’t mean over filling yourself with food. I’m far from an expert though and am only learning as I go along so am open to correction.

skyblue46

OOnegative wrote: »

Each to there own, what works for you might not work for me, as was pointed out above we all work differently. My belief was the more fuel in the system you have to burn the less likely you are to run “out” and I don’t mean over filling yourself with food. I’m far from an expert though and am only learning as I go along so am open to correction.

The body can only process so much food in any given time frame. Sensible carb loading will fill the tank. Any more than this amount will eventually be converted to fat. Then on the day we simply want to keep the tank full for as long as we can. We are all different but there are generally accepted ranges that can be used. I hope to come up with a user friendly guide for this thread over the next couple of days.

As for desserts...if they involve cake, pastry, biscuit or cream I would steer well clear as the fat content is very high. Sorry folks :pac:

skyblue46

Djoucer wrote: »

That’s not true at all. You can only store so much fuel.

These days, people are far more likely to eat too much in the days before a marathon and on the day itself. Double helpings and all the craic. People see carb loading as trying to stuff as much food in as possible.

Then switching to sugar minutes before a race isn’t ideal for everyone.

Personally, if I’m taking a gel before the race, i’ve messed up my pre race prep really badly.

You're right. However I think the context was more to advise people that it's best to carry the recommended amount of fuel rather than too little.

Djoucer

The more fuel the better approach is wrong and terrible advice.

There’s a point where you’re taking on too much and just putting on weight.