DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

aloooof

skyblue46 wrote: »

As for desserts...if they involve cake, pastry, biscuit or cream I would steer well clear as the fat content is very high. Sorry folks :pac:

We get away with nothing around here...

OOnegative

skyblue46 wrote: »

You're right. However I think the context was more to advise people that it's best to carry the recommended amount of fuel rather than too little.

That’s how it was meant alright. Certainly not advocating people stuff themselves silly with food they don’t need. Should explain myself a bit more.

Sheep1978

skyblue46 wrote: »

As for desserts...if they involve cake, pastry, biscuit or cream I would steer well clear as the fat content is very high. Sorry folks :pac:

sure what does that leave us with

ReeReeG

skyblue46 wrote: »

As for desserts...if they involve cake, pastry, biscuit or cream I would steer well clear as the fat content is very high. Sorry folks :pac:

And here was me opening a curly-wurly on my lunch as I went to read the latest posts on this thread...

juke

ReeReeG wrote: »

And here was me opening a curly-wurly on my lunch as I went to read the latest posts on this thread...

No fat in the holes!

skyblue46

Sheep1978 wrote: »

sure what does that leave us with

Fruit salad! :pac:

ariana`

My (albeit limited) understanding of carb loading is that the advice has changed over the years. Once upon a time it was all about eating a big dinner the evening before the race. Whereas now it's about eating a little bit more at every meal for 2-3 days before the big event. I try to add those extra calories in the form of simple carbohydrates - pasta, rice, bread, crackers etc. I don't see the point (other than enjoyment - which of course in itself is not a bad reason!) of eating extra cake. One thing i did last year was add some extra salty foods (such as Tuc crackers) to my diet for the day or two before.

For anyone who will be travelling to Dublin on Saturday it's really important to be organised. Plan in advance so you have snacks & drinks for the car/bus/train journey. Bring your food for Saturday evening, or discuss the menu with whomever will be cooking for you or if you're booking a restaurant check out the menu in advance to make sure you'll be able get a meal that you know will agree with you. Likewise be organised for your pre-race breakfast on Sunday morning and your pre-race snack while waiting around - be it something solid like a banana or a gel etc.

RayCun

Real carb loading is the second half of a carb depletion/carb loading cycle. You go for a few days of eating very few carbs, so your body is crying out for them, and then eat more than usual in the next few days. The idea is that you will store more carbs than is usually possible, because your body is storing up extra in case of another shortage.

dublinrunner has done it a couple of times afaik, but not many people do, and I certainly wouldn't recommend it for novices.

And then there is 'carb loading', which is what people call it when they stuff themselves with pasta the day before the marathon (and pizza the day before that, and chips the day before that...). But all that does is make you bloated.

Most people have had a couple of very tough weeks, that burned through a lot of fuel, and their diet was enough to supply that fuel (or come close). If you take the diet from those weeks, and maintain it in the couple of weeks pre-race when training is lighter, then obviously you will be eating more than you need to meet those exercise needs. And that's about all the carb loading you need to worry about.

OOnegative

RayCun wrote: »

Real carb loading is the second half of a carb depletion/carb loading cycle. You go for a few days of eating very few carbs, so your body is crying out for them, and then eat more than usual in the next few days. The idea is that you will store more carbs than is usually possible, because your body is storing up extra in case of another shortage.

dublinrunner has done it a couple of times afaik, but not many people do, and I certainly wouldn't recommend it for novices.

And then there is 'carb loading', which is what people call it when they stuff themselves with pasta the day before the marathon (and pizza the day before that, and chips the day before that...). But all that does is make you bloated.

Most people have had a couple of very tough weeks, that burned through a lot of fuel, and their diet was enough to supply that fuel (or come close). If you take the diet from those weeks, and maintain it in the couple of weeks pre-race when training is lighter, then obviously you will be eating more than you need to meet those exercise needs. And that's about all the carb loading you need to worry about.

Great post Ray, thank you.

incentsitive

skyblue46 wrote: »

Sheep1978 wrote: »

sure what does that leave us with

Fruit salad! :pac:

You don't win friends with salad.....

I'm looking forward to a good hearty fry the morning of the marathon, what better way to start the day of a 26 mile run than with something good and healthy.....

incentsitive

skyblue46 wrote: »

Sheep1978 wrote: »

sure what does that leave us with

Fruit salad! :pac:

You don't win friends with salad.....

I'm looking forward to a good hearty fry the morning of the marathon, what better way to start the day of a 26 mile run than with something good and healthy.....there's no point running around Dublin hungry.

Arsenium

incentsitive wrote: »

You don't win friends with salad.....

I'm looking forward to a good hearty fry the morning of the marathon, what better way to start the day of a 26 mile run than with something good and healthy.....there's no point running around Dublin hungry.

You may jest. The morning of DCM 2016 I called into a hotel to use the facilities and on the way through the restaurant I met a guy sitting at the table, with his full race gear and number on him tucking into a full Irish ! It wouldnt be for me but to each their own :-)

incentsitive

We are all different, but I think the difference between energy gels and bloks are probably irrelevant when compared to that!!!

space2ground1

Hi all, just wondering has anyone any advice on what to do in the last few weeks before the marathon if training takes a turn for the 'less than ideal'.

I managed 16, 18 and 20 mile LSRs in the last month but the midweek runs have really suffered. I had a niggle that needed a trip to the physio, some family stuff and a major jump in work commitments in the last 3 weeks. I've been training well for 18 months or so (well for a total beginner!) and am running 12-14 miles very comfortably. Things were clearing since the 20 miler last weekend but I've picked up a heavy headcold since then and havent managed any mileage this week yet. The injury is fine again which is a huge plus.

Should I be looking to run through the headcold and make sure I get some midweek mileage in? I'll be running 16/12 by the looks of it over the next 2 weekends but the midweek mileage has been concerningly low.

Any tips welcome! Thanks a lot!

Lazare

Djoucer wrote: »

The more fuel the better approach is wrong and terrible advice.

There’s a point where you’re taking on too much and just putting on weight.

I'd disagree with the first part, but qualify that by saying that's not based on any expertise but (limited) experience.

The second part however is nonsense. Irresponsible nonsense as it may sway people here to inadequately fuel.

The man in red and black

Lazare wrote: »

I'd disagree with the first part, but qualify that by saying that's not based on any expertise but (limited) experience.

The second part however is nonsense. Irresponsible nonsense as it may sway people here to inadequately fuel.

I think we are all getting crossed wires between the need to fuel well on the day of the race with gels etc during race where people are worried about underfuelling and then the build up, days before, where it sounds like people tend to overfuel? Like there is no point gaining 3kg bodyweight in the week of the marathon and carrying that for 26miles either.

skyblue46

The man in red and black wrote: »

I think we are all getting crossed wires between the need to fuel well on the day of the race with gels etc during race where people are worried about underfuelling and then the build up, days before, where it sounds like people tend to overfuel? Like there is no point gaining 3kg bodyweight in the week of the marathon and carrying that for 26miles either.

Exactly! There seems to be a misconception that the taper is a free pass to gorge. There also seem to be a few who seriously underestimated the fuel required for the run itself.

Lazare

The man in red and black wrote: »

I think we are all getting crossed wires between the need to fuel well on the day of the race with gels etc during race where people are worried about underfuelling and then the build up, days before, where it sounds like people tend to overfuel? Like there is no point gaining 3kg bodyweight in the week of the marathon and carrying that for 26miles either.

Oh, ok.

Skyblue has hopefully cleared up the confusion with some sense.

kittyclaws

Has anyone re-looked at their goal finish time?
I'm so confused, all the race predictors are giving me 4:30-4:40 based on my recent race finish times. Pace-man is giving me 4:38 based on my Strava runs.
My plan all along was to go out with the 4:50 pacers and try push on from Roebuck road, but I don't want to finish feeling like I could have done more.
Is this just early taper madness?

RayCun

kittyclaws wrote: »

My plan all along was to go out with the 4:50 pacers and try push on from Roebuck road, but I don't want to finish feeling like I could have done more.

Stay with the pacers to Walkinstown roundabout, see how you feel then.

imknackered

kittyclaws wrote: »

Has anyone re-looked at their goal finish time?
I'm so confused, all the race predictors are giving me 4:30-4:40 based on my recent race finish times. Pace-man is giving me 4:38 based on my Strava runs.
My plan all along was to go out with the 4:50 pacers and try push on from Roebuck road, but I don't want to finish feeling like I could have done more.
Is this just early taper madness?

If this is your first marathon stick to your 4:50 plan and push on. Its better to finish with a little left over than to hit the wall and struggle.
The 1st half of DCM is the hardest so even stick with 4:50 until then and see how your feeling.

I have hit the wall hard during a marathon and those last 6 miles can be torture

skyblue46

kittyclaws wrote: »

Has anyone re-looked at their goal finish time?
I'm so confused, all the race predictors are giving me 4:30-4:40 based on my recent race finish times. Pace-man is giving me 4:38 based on my Strava runs.
My plan all along was to go out with the 4:50 pacers and try push on from Roebuck road, but I don't want to finish feeling like I could have done more.
Is this just early taper madness?

I wouldn't worry about whether you could have done more. Leave that for future marathons None of your friends will care whether you do 4:28, 38, 48 or 58.

I did a 7 minute negative split last year so probably could have done more. ariana ran it after 3 weeks of not running due to injury so could have done more. Kellygirl took in the atmosphere in a display of showboating never seen before in DCM :pac: She could definitely have done more! Did it matter a jot? No! Not even the smallest little bit. Regrets that we could have gone faster? Not one! We all had one of the most memorable days of our lives...let yourself do the same.

ariana`

kittyclaws wrote: »

Has anyone re-looked at their goal finish time?
I'm so confused, all the race predictors are giving me 4:30-4:40 based on my recent race finish times. Pace-man is giving me 4:38 based on my Strava runs.
My plan all along was to go out with the 4:50 pacers and try push on from Roebuck road, but I don't want to finish feeling like I could have done more.
Is this just early taper madness?

I can guarantee you won't finish wishing you had done more. You will be on such a high that you actually won't care what time you did! And the stronger you feel at the finish the higher you will be flying. It's an incredible feeling to run within yourself and finish strong and that's what i would advice anyone to aim for for their first marathon! There are plenty of more marathons to chase a time or to run to your limit.

smashiner

kittyclaws wrote: »

Has anyone re-looked at their goal finish time?
I'm so confused, all the race predictors are giving me 4:30-4:40 based on my recent race finish times. Pace-man is giving me 4:38 based on my Strava runs.
My plan all along was to go out with the 4:50 pacers and try push on from Roebuck road, but I don't want to finish feeling like I could have done more.
Is this just early taper madness?

This is the effects of normal taper madness....take two gels, a pint of water with electrolyte tablets and lie down in a dark room until it passes

It is normal for people to start second-guessing their target times around this time, have I done enough running?, if I go out too fast will I blow up? etc. My advice would be to go with 'what ever makes you comfortable', a simple tip on Boards is to take your HM time, double it and add 20-25 minutes and that will be a good indication of where you should be.

Also, aim for a negative split as the DCM course is set up for this as the first half is definitely a bit harder. See how you feel after 20K and then 30K and finish a bit stronger if you feel that you have a bit left to give after Roebuck road, as it is pretty much downhill/level from that point on.

The most important thing is that you enjoy your 'debut DCM', finishing times are really irrelevant versus the feeling of the crowds cheering you on as you cross that line to that shiny medal. Due to your training program (and this thread :P), you will be one of the best prepared people in your wave so don't overthink it and enjoy the day.....you've got this!!

Kellygirl

skyblue46 wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about whether you could have done more. Leave that for future marathons None of your friends will care whether you do 4:28, 38, 48 or 58.

I did a 7 minute negative split last year so probably could have done more. ariana ran it after 3 weeks of not running due to injury so could have done more. Kellygirl took in the atmosphere in a display of showboating never seen before in DCM :pac: She could definitely have done more! Did it matter a jot? No! Not even the smallest little bit. Regrets that we could have gone faster? Not one! We all had one of the most memorable days of our lives...let yourself do the same.

LOL - not much more so can add to that but it’s true!!

Maybe go read our race reports from our thread last year though. The main thing is to enjoy the day.

ariana`

Kellygirl wrote: »

LOL - not much more so can add to that but it’s true!!

Maybe go read our race reports from our thread last year though. The main thing is to enjoy the day.

Good advice. Kittyclaws i ran 4:37 last year so not to far off your pace if you can dig out my report you may be able relate to it. I started behind the 4:40 pacer and finished in front of them so i guess i knew i had got my time but it was about 8o'c that night before i even found out my exact time - i was too busy soaking up the post run feelings, being relieved, proud, exhausted and totally & completely exhilarated/elated/thrilled/high (and any more words you can come up for that happy happy happy feeling when you just can't stop smiling)

And like Skyblue, i think i also ran a 7 min neg split so i'm pretty sure i had more in me but hand on heart i haven't had 1 moment of regret in the almost 12 months since then

skyblue46

Kellygirl wrote: »

LOL - not much more so can add to that but it’s true!!

Maybe go read our race reports from our thread last year though. The main thing is to enjoy the day.

Maybe don't read mine! It gets very panicky after my knee starts to give in! :pac:

corcaigh07

space2ground1 wrote: »

Hi all, just wondering has anyone any advice on what to do in the last few weeks before the marathon if training takes a turn for the 'less than ideal'.

I managed 16, 18 and 20 mile LSRs in the last month but the midweek runs have really suffered. I had a niggle that needed a trip to the physio, some family stuff and a major jump in work commitments in the last 3 weeks. I've been training well for 18 months or so (well for a total beginner!) and am running 12-14 miles very comfortably. Things were clearing since the 20 miler last weekend but I've picked up a heavy headcold since then and havent managed any mileage this week yet. The injury is fine again which is a huge plus.

Should I be looking to run through the headcold and make sure I get some midweek mileage in? I'll be running 16/12 by the looks of it over the next 2 weekends but the midweek mileage has been concerningly low.

Any tips welcome! Thanks a lot!

Any you me by any chance?!

I’ve had a niggle in my hip recently, still clearing up with massages on a Monday. Midweek runs have disappeared but still trying to get the LSRs done.

Also have a cold/sinus issue. Hoping to get out for 32k over the weekend but looking to be very cautious and keep aware of my breathing and heart rate.

Applegirl26

I'm thinking of not heading out with any pacers and just running my own race.
Any advice?

Eoineo

Applegirl26 wrote: »

I'm thinking of not heading out with any pacers and just running my own race.
Any advice?

I'm kind of expert in this as I'm consistently too slow for pacers at any time. You do need to be very comfortable at your MP so that you can judge whether or not you're heading too fast out of the traps or not pushing yourself hard enough at other stages. Music helps but you might find a metronome is good at that. There are so many people there you'll probably find yourself couple of other runners at your pace and use this to motivate yourself onwards.