DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

PenguinEggs

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Would anyone like to share their mantras for when the going gets tough in the race? I'm always intrigued by what gets people through when they hit a tough spot.

This extract from "The Enemy Within" by Rush have gotten me through many a tough run and no doubt I will be calling on them again on Sunday.

Every breath a static charge
A tongue that tastes like tin
Steely-eyed outside to hide the enemy within
To you, is it movement or is it action?
Is it contact or just reaction?
And you, revolution or just resistance?
Is it living, or just existence?
Yeah, you, it takes a little more persistence
To get up and go the distance

I'm not giving in to security under pressure
I'm not missing out on the promise of adventure
I'm not giving up on implausible dreams
Experience to extremes

Running the marathon was an "implausible dream" for me but now I going to do it. But implausible <> impossible

coogy

Ok, I know I have already decided on my goal time but out of sheer curiosity, I entered my 10 mile and half marathon times into the McMillan calculator.

It's giving me an estimated marathon time of between 30 mins and 20 minutes faster respectively.

I know that these can be taken with a pinch of salt but is there a chance I am being too conservative in my marathon goal?

Even with a predicted 3:45 finish, I still have concerns about going out too fast, even though I know that what I need to do to achieve that is definitely within my capabilities. Would hate to cross the finish line knowing I could have given more!!

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

Ok, I know I have already decided on my goal time but out of sheer curiosity, I entered my 10 mile and half marathon times into the McMillan calculator.

It's giving me an estimated marathon time of between 30 mins and 20 minutes faster respectively.

I know that these can be taken with a pinch of salt but is there a chance I am being too conservative in my marathon goal?

Even with a predicted 3:45 finish, I still have concerns about going out too fast, even though I know that what I need to do to achieve that is definitely within my capabilities. Would hate to cross the finish line knowing I could have given more!!

This is a topic that has been coming up again and again. Ultimately everyone can run their own race. All the advice Novices will get from experienced runners is aimed towards getting around and enjoying the day as much as possible. If someone wants to run more aggressively that is entirely their choice.

That being said I think your target does err on the conservative side. Given a choice between finishing knowing that you could have given more and finishing with a painful 2 mile walk.....I know which I'd choose.

eyrie

skyblue46 wrote: »

This is a topic that has been coming up again and again. Ultimately everyone can run their own race. All the advice Novices will get from experienced runners is aimed towards getting around and enjoying the day as much as possible. If someone wants to run more aggressively that is entirely their choice.

That being said I think your target does err on the conservative side. Given a choice between finishing knowing that you could have given more and finishing with a painful 2 mile walk.....I know which I'd choose.

Skyblue can you share/remind me what your conclusion was about the 10k time to target in relation to your finish time? I remember you saying you reckoned the people who met their targets in the last year or two were well controlled over the first 10k, but was there a particular % of finish time or something? I'm just wondering what to roughly aim for to make sure I don't hit it too quickly.

Mr. Guappa

eyrie wrote: »

Skyblue can you share/remind me what your conclusion was about the 10k time to target in relation to your finish time? I remember you saying you reckoned the people who met their targets in the last year or two were well controlled over the first 10k, but was there a particular % of finish time or something? I'm just wondering what to roughly aim for to make sure I don't hit it too quickly.

Don't go through 7 miles faster than 67 minutes was my takeaway from last week. That was for a 4 hour target time.

skyblue46

eyrie wrote: »

Skyblue can you share/remind me what your conclusion was about the 10k time to target in relation to your finish time? I remember you saying you reckoned the people who met their targets in the last year or two were well controlled over the first 10k, but was there a particular % of finish time or something? I'm just wondering what to roughly aim for to make sure I don't hit it too quickly.

I was running to a 3:52 pace band. My splits were 56:40 at 10k (9:09 per mile or 4 hour pace). 8:51 per mile would have been even pace. I was 1:57:10 at half distance which was still 1:10 behind even pace. 2:44:39 at 30k (this meant I was back up to even pace target) and finished in 3:47:20 by doing the last 12.2k as fast as I could :pac:

imknackered

skyblue46 wrote: »

I was running to a 3:52 pace band. My splits were 56:40 at 10k (9:09 per mile or 4 hour pace). 8:51 per mile would have been even pace. I was 1:57:10 at half distance which was still 1:10 behind even pace. 2:44:39 at 30k (this meant I was back up to even pace target) and finished in 3:47:20 by doing the last 12.2k as fast as I could :pac:

That sounds like one of the best paced marathon's i've read yet, well done skyblue46.

To all the novices, a strategy like this (adapted for your own race times) would be highly advisable to running a good race and being able to enjoy it too

OOnegative

skyblue46 wrote: »

I was running to a 3:52 pace band. My splits were 56:40 at 10k (9:09 per mile or 4 hour pace). 8:51 per mile would have been even pace. I was 1:57:10 at half distance which was still 1:10 behind even pace. 2:44:39 at 30k (this meant I was back up to even pace target) and finished in 3:47:20 by doing the last 12.2k as fast as I could :pac:

Bit like this year when you’ll finish in 3.14.20.

skyblue46

imknackered wrote: »

That sounds like one of the best paced marathon's i've read yet, well done skyblue46.

To all the novices, a strategy like this (adapted for your own race times) would be highly advisable to running a good race and being able to enjoy it too

Thanks a million. I might add that there were absolutely no feelings of regret about possibly having left a bit behind as such a relatively fast finish might indicate. Also it's only fair to point out that I wasn't the only one to run this strategy. The active group of thread posters pretty much all carried out this plan to a T. That's why you see ariana, Kellygirl, Lazare etc be so strong in their convictions that it's the right way to do it.

As an aside....no way would I have done it using a pacer.

aloooof

skyblue46 wrote: »

I was running to a 3:52 pace band. My splits were 56:40 at 10k (9:09 per mile or 4 hour pace). 8:51 per mile would have been even pace. I was 1:57:10 at half distance which was still 1:10 behind even pace. 2:44:39 at 30k (this meant I was back up to even pace target) and finished in 3:47:20 by doing the last 12.2k as fast as I could :pac:

So by my reckoning, at the various markers were roughly:

10k: 1:52 behind even pace
Half: 1:10 behind
30k: even pace
Finish: 4:40 ahead

That's really impressive. If I could manage to pull anything like that out of the bag on the day I'd be delighted!

skyblue46

OOnegative wrote: »

Bit like this year when you’ll finish in 3.14.20.

That'd need a 1:32 second half....not happening!! :pac:

ariana`

skyblue46 wrote: »

I was running to a 3:52 pace band. My splits were 56:40 at 10k (9:09 per mile or 4 hour pace). 8:51 per mile would have been even pace. I was 1:57:10 at half distance which was still 1:10 behind even pace. 2:44:39 at 30k (this meant I was back up to even pace target) and finished in 3:47:20 by doing the last 12.2k as fast as I could :pac:

My times were much slower than S and not as relevant to some of you but out of interest I just checked my splits.

10K: MP + 18 seconds/mile
Half: MP + 1 second/mile
30k: MP - 20 seconds/mile
Full: MP - 23 seconds/mile

I ran a negative split circa 7 minutes which like Skyblue was probably too much but likewise i have no regrets, it was a super feeling to be able pick up speed at the end and most importantly i didn't meet the wall :pac:

Kellygirl

skyblue46 wrote: »

Thanks a million. I might add that there were absolutely no feelings of regret about possibly having left a bit behind as such a relatively fast finish might indicate. Also it's only fair to point out that I wasn't the only one to run this strategy. The active group of thread posters pretty much all carried out this plan to a T. That's why you see ariana, Kellygirl, Lazare etc be so strong in their convictions that it's the right way to do it.

As an aside....no way would I have done it using a pacer.

Yep - 100% in agreement. I’ll be doing the same thing on sunday again all going well. Every one of us finished strong and elated. I moved up over 4100 places (or passed out that many people) between the 10km mark and the finish line by just conserving energy at the start, allowing everybody pass me by and saying ‘trust the plan’ to myself and slowly picking it up after that. The plan works - just stick to it!!

skyblue46

aloooof wrote: »

So by my reckoning, at the various markers were roughly:

10k: 1:52 behind even pace
Half: 1:10 behind
30k: even pace
Finish: 4:40 ahead

That's really impressive. If I could manage to pull anything like that out of the bag on the day I'd be delighted!

If anything I would suggest something even more conservative as I don't think 1:52 is enough to be behind target pace at Castleknock for a 4 hour novice runner. If would take my splits against even splits for my actual finishing time rather than my target. I would consider it a better model.

10k - 2:50 down
Half - 3:30 down
30k - 3:18 down
Finish - =

That is from following the advice given by our mentors last year and which Raycun has reiterated this year....a very conservative start to at least Castleknock college, slowly move towards MP over the next few miles and then assess how things are at Walkinstown roundabout....and very regularly after that.

ariana`

I think it's worth noting that all this talk of pacing and running the first x miles/km slower than MP is only really worth it's weight if the MP is realistic to start with. If you decide to run the first X miles at MP + 15 seconds/m but your MP is 30 secs/m faster than is realistic then you are unknowingly over-cooking the early part of the marathon.

I know it's not easy to determine a realistic target but most of you have raced a half marathon recently - there is a generic formula that full Marathon time roughly equates to (HM x 2) + 20 mins. This i think is a reasonable starting point for estimating your marathon time. You might also look back on that HM race and try to remember or analyse from the splits how you felt in the last few miles - if there was a big fade then it suggests your endurance might be low and a more conservative target time is recommended.

There are also calculators such as McMillan which will give you a predicted time based on a race time but do please take into account that these tend to be optimistic especially for novice marathon runners.

If you are in doubt please err on the side of conservative. You'll only do your first marathon once - make it a memorable day for all the right reasons

smashiner

Random Marathon tips:

If it is raining bring a black plastic bag with 3 slits for a quick makeshift disposable raincoat
Bring disposable clothes, fleece, hat gloves, leggings etc. if it is cold (it's due to be).
Don't sit down on a cold step before the race as your hamstrings could go tight.
Sip on electrolyte/water drinks before the race.
Go to the bathroom 17 times before the race....:rolleyes:
Get into your wave early (not way too early either).
If you are nervous, only focus on getting the first 3-5K out of the way and you will be fine once you get running.
Break the race into sizable chunks in your mind,5K,10K, Half, 25K,30K etc
Tie your runners properly before you start, as it will be very difficult to stop for the first 2-3K with the volume of people.
Bring a spare plaster or two in case of blisters.
Bring/apply Vaseline to prevent blisters
Physio tip (sub 3 hour guy).....bring Biofreeze in a small sachet for the last 6 miles in case you legs hurt.
Be careful at water stations, trips, loose bottles on the road, never kick a bottle out of your way as you could end up doing the splits!!
Run behind people (draft)when running on an exposed part of the course (e.g. Phoenix Park/Crumlin Road) to save a bit of energy.
Take it handy on that first big hill at Chapelizod under the motorway.
Sip your gels in 2-3 goes to avoid gulping down air and getting a cramp.
If you get a cramp after taking a gel (normally under your right ribs), gently massage it until it passes in 1-2 minutes.
Bring a clothes peg for your towel afterwards to save your blushes
Bring flip flops to air those toes afterwards for 10 minutes
Bring money for the pub afterwards.

If and when the race gets tough, just think of why you are doing the DCM and just focus on the next lamppost or tree on the road and you will eventually run out of lampposts and trees and you will then see '800M To Go'. You will be on the magic blue carpet in no time and a superstar for a day.

Most importantly, don't go into the DCM with dread or fear, it is a super event and you will be one of the main stars on the day. Don't worry too much about your time and don't panic if things unravel a little as your months and months of hard training are in the bank and this will get you home.

Lastly, smile as you hit that blue matting as you will a Marathon Runner!!

Best of Luck Novices, it will be a blast!!

Dealerz2.0

That’s a super post- thank you smashiner

*googles biofreeze*

boydkev

smashiner wrote: »

Random Marathon tips:


Physio tip (sub 3 hour guy).....bring Biofreeze in a small sachet for the last 6 miles in case you legs hurt.

I was told this after doing rotterdam earlier this year, Does anybody know where you can get the small 3ml or 5 ml Sachets in Ireland, Amazon charge WAY too much to deliver.

Ultraman100

Pacer list...all pacers to go at even splits,
3:00 Abhainn,RoadRunner,Dublin runner
3:10 Artifunkin,niall,brian
3:20 Killerz,chris,Fozzy
3:30 Paul,lecheile,MarkoM
3:40 Garman,ollie,paul Reny(forget boards name)
3:50 rolando,Ankers,bobby rex
4:00 super joe,olwyn,hannon,gay byrne
410.oonegative,Peter,Dave
420 jbski,hogansheroes,karina johina
430 alision,charlie Chapman Andrew
440 Annej,Des,raycass,des
450 marie,sharon,pat
459 AnnMC,paulR,Jedward

RayCun

Ultraman100 wrote: »

Pacer list...all pacers to go at even splits,
Dublin runner

is he going to have his gang do yoga before the start?

Comic Book Guy

Bib No.|Username|Target Time|Actual Time
|Mr. Guappa|03:59:59|
|coogy|03:45:00|
|Helenasca|04:40:00|
|roosterman71|03:50:00|
|kittyclaws|04:50:00|
|sann|03:40:00|
|Summerflower|04:29:59|
|Chippyrun|04:30:00|
|Themadhouse|04:29:59|
|Aoifemcc19|04:45:00|
|Chabsey|03:15:00|
|imknackered|03:28:00|
|tbukela|03:38:00|
|Naked Lepper|04:15:00|
|yido1882|03:59:00|
|cullenswood|03:29:59|
|ReeReeG|03:49:30|
|Bucketybuck|03:59:99|
|Pilot1087|04:40:00|
|Strawberry Swan|04:30:00|
|Applegirl26|04:30:00|
|aloooof|04:25:00|
|hedgehoggy|03:43:30|
|Misky|04:45:00|
|Alorra|03:40:00|
|Dealerz2.0|04:15:00|
|Buzwaldo |04:10:00|
|AdrianII |03:59:59|
|Comic Book Guy |03:26:00|

smashiner

boydkev wrote: »

I was told this after doing rotterdam earlier this year, Does anybody know where you can get the small 3ml or 5 ml Sachets in Ireland, Amazon charge WAY too much to deliver.

Hi boydkev,
Maybe just buy a full tube in a chemist and squirt a nice bit into a small plastic bag and stick it into your shorts/race belt (I'm gonna rob some of my missus stash on DCM morning).

You can always sell the Biofreeze in small quantities at McGrattan's afterwards as I am sure that there might be a few aching bodies that will be willing to pay top dollar for such a valuable commodity after the race (law of supply and demand and all that) ...arf arf...;)

It also might be handy to have for the few days after the DCM too.....

Applegirl26

Kellygirl wrote: »

Yep - 100% in agreement. I’ll be doing the same thing on sunday again all going well. Every one of us finished strong and elated. I moved up over 4100 places (or passed out that many people) between the 10km mark and the finish line by just conserving energy at the start, allowing everybody pass me by and saying ‘trust the plan’ to myself and slowly picking it up after that. The plan works - just stick to it!!

If I'm hoping to come in at 4:30, what time do you reckon I should run my first 6 miles in? 1 hour, 10 minutes?

skyblue46

Applegirl26 wrote: »

If I'm hoping to come in at 4:30, what time do you reckon I should run my first 6 miles in? 1 hour, 10 minutes?

About 1:04/05 for 6 miles...about 1:07 at 10km mark. 4:30 pace is 10.17 per mile on average. Going back to ariana's point about realistic MP you should be confident it's reasonably realistic.

Applegirl26

skyblue46 wrote: »

About 1:04/05 for 6 miles...about 1:07 at 10km mark. 4:30 pace is 10.17 per mile on average. Going back to ariana's point about realistic MP you should be confident it's reasonably realistic.

Oh dear, can someone change my estimated time to 4:40? Thank you.
Anyone else feel their head is all over the place?!

skyblue46

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Oh dear, can someone change my estimated time to 4:40? Thank you.
Anyone else feel their head is all over the place?!

Haha...that's probably better. Then make that 6 mile split into 1:09/1:10....

skyblue46

Bib No.|Username|Target Time|Actual Time
|Mr. Guappa|03:59:59|
|coogy|03:45:00|
|Helenasca|04:40:00|
|roosterman71|03:50:00|
|kittyclaws|04:50:00|
|sann|03:40:00|
|Summerflower|04:29:59|
|Chippyrun|04:30:00|
|Themadhouse|04:29:59|
|Aoifemcc19|04:45:00|
|Chabsey|03:15:00|
|imknackered|03:28:00|
|tbukela|03:38:00|
|Naked Lepper|04:15:00|
|yido1882|03:59:00|
|cullenswood|03:29:59|
|ReeReeG|03:49:30|
|Bucketybuck|03:59:99|
|Pilot1087|04:40:00|
|Strawberry Swan|04:30:00|
|Applegirl26|04:40:00|
|aloooof|04:25:00|
|hedgehoggy|03:43:30|
|Misky|04:45:00|
|Alorra|03:40:00|
|Dealerz2.0|04:15:00|
|Buzwaldo |04:10:00|
|AdrianII |03:59:59|
|Comic Book Guy |03:26:00|

aloooof

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Oh dear, can someone change my estimated time to 4:40? Thank you.
Anyone else feel their head is all over the place?!

Yeeeep! I was pretty relaxed and was wondering what all the fuss about "taper madness" was until this week! :pac:

skyblue46

aloooof wrote: »

Yeeeep! I was pretty relaxed and was wondering what all the fuss about "taper madness" was until this week! :pac:

Keep it simple. You have the training done. This is the single most important thing. You have been given lots of good advice about how to run the course and pacing strategies. You will be wearing shoes and clothes which you have tested and will not cause you discomfort. That, pretty much, is all the major boxes ticked.

All the other stuff about carb loading, hydration, biofreeze are as much things to get needlessly stressed about as they are helpful.

Eat, drink and sleep as well as you can this week. Wear your running gear. Dress appropriately for the weather beforehand. Then just get out there and do what you have trained to do.

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

Keep it simple. You have the training done. This is the single most important thing. You have been given lots of good advice about how to run the course and pacing strategies. You will be wearing shoes and clothes which you have tested and will not cause you discomfort. That, pretty much, is all the major boxes ticked.

All the other stuff about carb loading, hydration, biofreeze are as much things to get needlessly stressed about as they are helpful.

Eat, drink and sleep as well as you can this week. Wear your running gear. Dress appropriately for the weather beforehand. Then just get out there and do what you have trained to do.

Yeah, but.............:)