DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

Djoucer

The bio freeze tip is daft.

Of course your legs are going to be sore in the last 6 miles.

Sounds like a marketing gimmick over common sense.

Stopping in the last 6 miles to apply Biofreeze will be more detrimental to your race than simply carrying on.

Aoifemcc19

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Oh dear, can someone change my estimated time to 4:40? Thank you.
Anyone else feel their head is all over the place?!

Don't panic! I've put down 4.45 but would love 4.39 (but not going to beat myself up if I don't reach either time if it goes wrong on the day). I've looked at last years table and I know its out of context as I don't know peoples back story but Ariana's times had her coming in at 4.37 and she did a lovely paced 10k and HM so I'm benchmarking off her times and even coming in a minute or two behind them!

skyblue46

Aoifemcc19 wrote: »

Don't panic! I've put down 4.45 but would love 4.39 (but not going to beat myself up if I don't reach either time if it goes wrong on the day). I've looked at last years table and I know its out of context as I don't know peoples back story but Ariana's times had her coming in at 4.37 and she did a lovely paced 10k and HM so I'm benchmarking off her times and even coming in a minute or two behind them!

For context I should add here that ariana was injured in the lead up. She was well within herself and could probably had done 4:20 had injury not struck beforehand. I wouldn't be banking on matching her finish.

The man in red and black

coogy wrote: »

Ok, I know I have already decided on my goal time but out of sheer curiosity, I entered my 10 mile and half marathon times into the McMillan calculator.

It's giving me an estimated marathon time of between 30 mins and 20 minutes faster respectively.

I know that these can be taken with a pinch of salt but is there a chance I am being too conservative in my marathon goal?

Even with a predicted 3:45 finish, I still have concerns about going out too fast, even though I know that what I need to do to achieve that is definitely within my capabilities. Would hate to cross the finish line knowing I could have given more!!

Kellygirl wrote: »

Yep - 100% in agreement. I’ll be doing the same thing on sunday again all going well. Every one of us finished strong and elated. I moved up over 4100 places (or passed out that many people) between the 10km mark and the finish line by just conserving energy at the start, allowing everybody pass me by and saying ‘trust the plan’ to myself and slowly picking it up after that. The plan works - just stick to it!!

Coogy you are similar to me with my dilemma the last few weeks. I decided last night based on the three mentors advice to start out with 3.50 pacer and see how hard I can go in the second half of the race. It was a big relief as to be honest I have been thinking about 3.40 vs 3.50 pacer on pretty much every run and before bed every night lately stressing out over nothing. I discussed with a friend today who has done several marathons and ultras. He fully agreed with the mentors. Start easy and finish strong.

He gave a few excellent examples which I will share. Now these figures might not be accurate for you but they roughly were for me. Imagine you are out running at 8.20mins/mile and someone someone says go 30 seconds faster. You are now pushing pretty hard and won't maintain it...now imagine instead they said 30 seconds slower...you are now tipping along as if it's another LSR. You can stay going for ages and when needed pick it up.

The difference in pace of a 3.40 pacer and 3.50 pacer is 22 seconds per mile(Unless my maths is wrong!). I was thinking I couldn't afford to lose those 22 seconds per mile for the first half...but he pointed out I start too fast and slow down to 9.30/10.30/walking well then I am dropping 2 minutes + per mile for 6-10 miles at the end and that will cost me far far more. I've decided on 3.50 pacer and it's a weight off of my shoulders. You sound faster than me so you have to decide for yourself, I'm only relaying stories :P But I want to be like Kellygirl and pass out 4100 people from 10k mark, see how much I can push on in second half and not blow up.

Hope that's useful and not just a load of waffle, it seemed similar to my worries:)

Thanks again to all three mentors for the last few days comments on pacing. It has helped so much. Genuinely deeply appreciated

The man in red and black

Bib No.|Username|Target Time|Actual Time
|Mr. Guappa|03:59:59|
|coogy|03:45:00|
|Helenasca|04:40:00|
|roosterman71|03:50:00|
|kittyclaws|04:50:00|
|sann|03:40:00|
|Summerflower|04:29:59|
|Chippyrun|04:30:00|
|Themadhouse|04:29:59|
|Aoifemcc19|04:45:00|
|Chabsey|03:15:00|
|imknackered|03:28:00|
|tbukela|03:38:00|
|Naked Lepper|04:15:00|
|yido1882|03:59:00|
|cullenswood|03:29:59|
|ReeReeG|03:49:30|
|Bucketybuck|03:59:99|
|Pilot1087|04:40:00|
|Strawberry Swan|04:30:00|
|Applegirl26|04:30:00|
|aloooof|04:25:00|
|hedgehoggy|03:43:30|
|Misky|04:45:00|
|Alorra|03:40:00|
|Dealerz2.0|04:15:00|
|Buzwaldo |04:10:00|
|AdrianII |03:59:59|
|Comic Book Guy |03:26:00|
|The man in red and black |03:45:00|

Aoifemcc19

skyblue46 wrote: »

For context I should add here that ariana was injured in the lead up. She was well within herself and could probably had done 4:20 had injury not struck beforehand. I wouldn't be banking on matching her finish.

Bubble burst......:(

4.37 not within my remit anyway so happy to add a few mins on

Rossi7

skyblue46 wrote: »

aloooof wrote: »

Yeeeep! I was pretty relaxed and was wondering what all the fuss about "taper madness" was until this week! :pac:

Keep it simple. You have the training done. This is the single most important thing. You have been given lots of good advice about how to run the course and pacing strategies. You will be wearing shoes and clothes which you have tested and will not cause you discomfort. That, pretty much, is all the major boxes ticked.

All the other stuff about carb loading, hydration, biofreeze are as much things to get needlessly stressed about as they are helpful.

Eat, drink and sleep as well as you can this week. Wear your running gear. Dress appropriately for the weather beforehand. Then just get out there and do what you have trained to do.

Proper Mr Miyagi stuff there S, feel like grabbing a pot of Crown Paints & a paintbrush & wax on & wax off me way around those 26.2 Miles coach

skyblue46

The man in red and black wrote: »

The difference in pace of a 3.40 pacer and 3.50 pacer is 22 seconds per mile(Unless my maths is wrong!). I was thinking I couldn't afford to lose those 22 seconds per mile for the first half...but he pointed out I start too fast and slow down to 9.30/10.30/walking well then I am dropping 2 minutes + per mile for 6-10 miles at the end and that will cost me far far more. I've decided on 3.50 pacer and it's a weight off of my shoulders.

This is a very valid point and one I was debating whether to post or not. I have been a bit concerned at how glibly 10 minutes difference in pace is tossed about. It is actually huge. I was discussing this with Lazare on the run last Sunday and I likened it to the difference it would make to a 5k time....1:12 over 5k...most of us would feel that if we were asked to speed up by that much. You'd have to do that 8 times in DCM. That sort of a pick up in pace can only happen if you are genuinely taking it easy in the first half and,as ariana said, basing paces off an achievable MP.

skyblue46

Rossi7 wrote: »

Proper Mr Miyagi stuff there S, feel like grabbing a pot of Crown Paints & a paintbrush & wax on & wax off me way around those 26.2 Miles coach

Haha...ah stop. Facebook is full of marathon lists...don't forget this, don't forget that, do this, do that and definitely don't even consider the other. Most of it is like most of the tripe on Facebook and you'd need to be seriously lacking in common sense not to work out yourself. :pac:

Rossi7

skyblue46 wrote: »

Rossi7 wrote: »

Proper Mr Miyagi stuff there S, feel like grabbing a pot of Crown Paints & a paintbrush & wax on & wax off me way around those 26.2 Miles coach

Haha...ah stop. Facebook is full of marathon lists...don't forget this, don't forget that, do this, do that and definitely don't even consider the other. Most of it is like most of the tripe on Facebook and you'd need to be seriously lacking in common sense not to work out yourself. :pac:

Yep just get out and run it & take the advice onboard that’s been given to us. One foot in front of the other, how hard can it be wink wink

Helenasca

That's it lads I'm walking it .......Well OK maybe not.

My head is addled from it all. There was me thinking the hardest bit would be to actually run the marathon now with this added conservative pacing negative split craic my heads all over the shop.

Kellygirl

Helenasca wrote: »

That's it lads I'm walking it .......Well OK maybe not.

My head is addled from it all. There was me thinking the hardest bit would be to actually run the marathon now with this added conservative pacing negative split craic my heads all over the shop.

Just words. Go slow at the start. You should feel like you are straining at the leash to go faster - like as if you are running at a pace you could do forever. Do that until you are up at Castleknock and slowly pick up the pace on the downhills then and slow right back down on he uphills. That’s all you need to do.

Helenasca

Kellygirl wrote:

Just words. Go slow at the start. You should feel like you are straining at the leash to go faster - like as if you are running at a pace you could do forever. Do that until you are up at Castleknock and slowly pick up the pace on the downhills then and slow right back down on he uphills. That’s all you need to do.

Thanks Kellygirl. Just panicking.
And my competitive streak is showing (competitive with myself that is, some people call it being stubborn)

I regret not doing more races during training to give me a better idea of fitness and MP.

But nothing can be done about that now. Just gonna give it what I can (slowly at first then faster )

roosterman71

What day should we shave our legs?

skyblue46

roosterman71 wrote: »

What day should we shave our legs?

Well as you need to leave the shaving rash for 2 days before applying your fake tan I'd suggest Thursday as the best day.

Rossi7

skyblue46 wrote: »

roosterman71 wrote: »

What day should we shave our legs?

Well as you need to leave the shaving rash for 2 days before applying your fake tan I'd suggest Thursday as the best day.

I’d be in favour of a spray tan as the only thing you want running on Sunday is yourself

Lazare

roosterman71 wrote: »

What day should we shave our legs?

I actually shaved a bit of my leg the other dày to put KT tape on, if it starts to get itchy I'll have to shave it again.

Applegirl26

Sorry I'm back with another q.

So it looks like it's going to be cold on Sunday morning. I've taken on board the advice about wrapping up in layers while we wait at the start etc. But I'm wondering would I wear a thermal baselayer under my t? I will probably keep my hat and gloves on for the first few miles and then take them off. Just wondering if I need another layer around my body itself? The only thing with wearing a baselayer is that I won't be able to take it off if I get too toasty. But I hate being cold and if I start cold, only my legs warm up, the rest of me doesn't! Aaahh.... Can I go back a few weeks, when all I had to do was run?!

skyblue46

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Sorry I'm back with another q.

So it looks like it's going to be cold on Sunday morning. I've taken on board the advice about wrapping up in layers while we wait at the start etc. But I'm wondering would I wear a thermal baselayer under my t? I will probably keep my hat and gloves on for the first few miles and then take them off. Just wondering if I need another layer around my body itself? The only thing with wearing a baselayer is that I won't be able to take it off if I get too toasty. But I hate being cold and if I start cold, only my legs warm up, the rest of me doesn't! Aaahh.... Can I go back a few weeks, when all I had to do was run?!

I wouldn't go the base layer route at all. I know there's a lot of talk about a cold weekend but the temps being talked about are pretty ideal for distance running. Wear layers that you can take off one by one like peeling an onion.

Rossi7

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Sorry I'm back with another q.

So it looks like it's going to be cold on Sunday morning. I've taken on board the advice about wrapping up in layers while we wait at the start etc. But I'm  wondering would I wear a thermal baselayer under my t? I will probably keep my hat and gloves on for the first few miles  and then take  them off. Just wondering if I need another layer around my body itself? The only thing with wearing a baselayer is that I won't be able to take it off if I get too toasty. But I hate being cold and if I start cold, only my legs warm up, the rest of me doesn't! Aaahh.... Can I go back a few weeks, when all I had to do was run?!

I think you've answered your own question L, you won't be long warming up. I'd rather be cold than overheating and unable to take of the baselayer

Hedgehoggy

Quick question - Think this might be peak maranoia but I've been waking up thirsty in the morning and last night I had a little twitch in my calf - I've been drinking plenty water - 2 1/2 litres for the last few days and I dont think I'm dehydrated - Electrolytes needed?

ariana`

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Sorry I'm back with another q.

So it looks like it's going to be cold on Sunday morning. I've taken on board the advice about wrapping up in layers while we wait at the start etc. But I'm wondering would I wear a thermal baselayer under my t? I will probably keep my hat and gloves on for the first few miles and then take them off. Just wondering if I need another layer around my body itself? The only thing with wearing a baselayer is that I won't be able to take it off if I get too toasty. But I hate being cold and if I start cold, only my legs warm up, the rest of me doesn't! Aaahh.... Can I go back a few weeks, when all I had to do was run?!

I agree with the advice you got already. I think you'd be melting in a thermal base layer! Last year i discarded a pair of gloves at 5m/8km and I will probably do similar this year, once the extremities are warm then i'd say we'll be ok. It'll get warmer as the morning goes on too - i think i saw on the forecast 8 degrees by midday - that doesn't sound too cold

tbukela

This forum has been full of great advice over the last days and weeks in the build up to DCM. It really is a credit to the goodwill of people and their willingness to share their experiences and to help others. It has been a pleasure to follow this thread.

I did Limerick in May this year in 4:14 with a 1:54 first half and a 2:20 2nd half. My half marathon PB at the time was 1:46. 8 out of the last 9 miles were tortorous, strangely the last mile was enjoyable as I had accepted the result at that stage and enjoyed the atmosphere of the crowd. It wasn't the marathon debut that I had envisaged but I still loved the distance and the sense of achievement that came with completing a race of that distance. I am hoping to go sub 3:40 on Sunday, whether I do or don't won't define the training block I have completed and the enjoyment I have taken from it.

My own two cents worth after running a grand total of one marathon previously would be that the importance of managing your early pace cannot be stressed enough. Any race or even training run that I look back on fondly I have always finished strongly. I'd prefer to have that feeling than struggle home. The difference between an aspirational MP and an achievable one is also very important. We'd all love to run as fast as possible but does our training or recent race times support that goal time. I found the most difficult aspect for my first marathon was the mental challenge when things got difficult, it was all too easy for the head to drop and panic to set in. I think being prepared for the inevitable rough patch and having a plan to deal with it will hopefully make it manageable this time around. I'm nervous about Sunday but also looking forward to testing myself. One way or the other I am determined to enjoy it.

It's natural for people to doubt themselves, their preparation, the weather etc this close to the race. It has been such a massive undertaking and commitment for everyone over the last number of months. Trust in the hard work that you've put in and the support that you've gotten from your friends and families. I hope that everyone, whether it's marathon number one or one hundred, enjoys the experience on Sunday. I can't wait to read all the reports next week.

eyrie

Quick question! Having been very lucky with being injury and reasonably niggle-free, my right leg is giving me some pain all of a sudden. Nothing major, but it's unusual and noticeable. I suspect with some serious foam rolling and stretching it'll be ok, but it looks like I could get a physio appointment this afternoon. Would it do more harm than good at this stage, or the opposite? (I know, I probably need to just decide this for myself!)

sann

tbukela wrote: »

This forum has been full of great advice over the last days and weeks in the build up to DCM. It really is a credit to the goodwill of people and their willingness to share their experiences and to help others. It has been a pleasure to follow this thread.

I did Limerick in May this year in 4:14 with a 1:54 first half and a 2:20 2nd half. My half marathon PB at the time was 1:46. 8 out of the last 9 miles were tortorous, strangely the last mile was enjoyable as I had accepted the result at that stage and enjoyed the atmosphere of the crowd. It wasn't the marathon debut that I had envisaged but I still loved the distance and the sense of achievement that came with completing a race of that distance. I am hoping to go sub 3:40 on Sunday, whether I do or don't won't define the training block I have completed and the enjoyment I have taken from it.

My own two cents worth after running a grand total of one marathon previously would be that the importance of managing your early pace cannot be stressed enough. Any race or even training run that I look back on fondly I have always finished strongly. I'd prefer to have that feeling than struggle home. The difference between an aspirational MP and an achievable one is also very important. We'd all love to run as fast as possible but does our training or recent race times support that goal time. I found the most difficult aspect for my first marathon was the mental challenge when things got difficult, it was all too easy for the head to drop and panic to set in. I think being prepared for the inevitable rough patch and having a plan to deal with it will hopefully make it manageable this time around. I'm nervous about Sunday but also looking forward to testing myself. One way or the other I am determined to enjoy it.

It's natural for people to doubt themselves, their preparation, the weather etc this close to the race. It has been such a massive undertaking and commitment for everyone over the last number of months. Trust in the hard work that you've put in and the support that you've gotten from your friends and families. I hope that everyone, whether it's marathon number one or one hundred, enjoys the experience on Sunday. I can't wait to read all the reports next week.

Great stuff.
Hoping for a similar time and i am just pinning down my paces today.
Would your half target be around the 1.52?

Kellygirl

eyrie wrote: »

Quick question! Having been very lucky with being injury and reasonably niggle-free, my right leg is giving me some pain all of a sudden. Nothing major, but it's unusual and noticeable. I suspect with some serious foam rolling and stretching it'll be ok, but it looks like I could get a physio appointment this afternoon. Would it do more harm than good at this stage, or the opposite? (I know, I probably need to just decide this for myself!)

I’d prob take the appointment for peace of mind and the fact you have the marathon on Sunday they shouldn’t go too heavy on you.

Chances are it’s nothing major but just in case prob better to get checked out.

Buzwaldo

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

Quick question - Think this might be peak maranoia but I've been waking up thirsty in the morning and last night I had a little twitch in my calf - I've been drinking plenty water - 2 1/2 litres for the last few days and I dont think I'm dehydrated - Electrolytes needed?

What is your water consumption normally? Not an expert here but have a small bit of relevant knowledge. If you have recently upped your water intake, your body needs to expel this by producing more urine. If kidneys get tuned to up the output, and you stop drinking (eg for 8 hrs sleep),then you may well wake up thirsty.
Saw a documentary where bodybuilders greatly upped their water intake a good few days before weigh in, then water deprivation for last 24 hrs - resulted in a natural dehydration ( and weight loss).
I wonder if upping fluid intake this week may actually contribute to dehydration / increased urine production on the day.
Just my 2 cents.

Naked Lepper

tbukela wrote: »

I did Limerick in May this year in 4:14 with a 1:54 first half and a 2:20 2nd half. My half marathon PB at the time was 1:46. 8 out of the last 9 miles were tortorous, strangely the last mile was enjoyable as I had accepted the result at that stage and enjoyed the atmosphere of the crowd. It wasn't the marathon debut that I had envisaged but I still loved the distance and the sense of achievement that came with completing a race of that distance. I am hoping to go sub 3:40 on Sunday, whether I do or don't won't define the training block I have completed and the enjoyment I have taken from it.

Great post but on question regarding the section of it I've quoted above.

You mentioned that your HM pb was 1.46 and on marathon day you passed the half way mark at 1.54 which is nearly 10 min slower than your PB. Despite this you still struggled at the end having gone out too fast in the first half. this should have set you up for the standard rule of thumb where you multiply your HM pace and add 20 min buffer on to the second half.. (I understand it is not an exact science) but would be interested to know a bit more about how you feel you ran too fast in the first half given that you added 10 mins onto your HM time

I am a little concerned with this rationale based on my own times - I' did the HM in 1.55 last month and had planned on passing the half way mark somewhere between 2.02 and 2.05 on sunday in order to finish around HM pace x2 plus 20 is 4.10 max, ideally sooner if things go well on the day (first marathon etc.)

prob overthinking this a bit but plan A (best case scenario) for me is
7 miles = 67 min
HM 2.05
Finish - somewhere between 4.00 and 4.10/15

Not sure if I should change anything to the above, any general advice and whether these times are realistic/achievable would be appreciated.

aloooof

Naked Lepper wrote: »

I am a little concerned with this rationale based on my own times - I' did the HM in 1.55 last month and had planned on passing the half way mark somewhere between 2.02 and 2.05 on sunday in order to finish around HM pace x2 plus 20 is 4.10 max, ideally sooner if things go well on the day (first marathon etc.)

I could be way off here but taking your HM time and using the HM*2 + 20 mins makes 4:10 sound reasonable.

However, running 4:10 at an even pace would see you pass the half-way point at 2:05. But all the advice here has been to run a negative split as the first half is harder. So you might be better off aiming for half-way at, say, 2:07/2:08, and the second half 2:03/2:02? I think that's the logic anyways.

philyb

Unfortunately I can't do DCM just found out during week, lad I know will take entire are they fairly relaxing on registration as I know last year they opened up so someone could register for you