DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

juke

skyblue46 wrote: »

Welcome juke! I have no doubt you'll handle this challenge brilliantly. Anyone who can put their mind to a discipline like powerlifting for a period of time undoubtedly possesses the fortitude to make a good go of the marathon? How long has it been on your mind? Did you get in long before it sold out?

Being someone who has been totally bitten by the running bug in the 12 months since last years novice thread I hope you get the same enjoyment that I have.

Oh and you'll be one up on me when you complete DCM....I didn't do one before I was 50!! :pac:

Thanks skyblue42. Fortitude - I like that word, stubborn was the one I had been playing with :pac:

Doing a marathon has been a niggle at the back of mind for about 3-4 years. I signed up in February, so maybe today was inevitable !

Strawberry Swan

Didn't get 4 runs in this week but hopefully this coming week. Will add a 3 mile easy run.

Speed session: 2 miles
Easy run: 5 miles
LSR: 11 miles
Gym: strength and conditioning

MickOB94

Just a quick question on the Long Slow Runs (per the Hal Higdon N1 plan). I've read the famous post from the 2016 Mentored Novices Thread a couple of times now, so just looking to confirm my understanding.

I'm happy that the midweek "easy" runs should be 45 to 60 seconds per mile slower than planned marathon pace. Presumably the long slow runs should be even slower than that again? Perhaps in the range of 60 to 90 seconds slower than planned marathon pace?

skyblue46

Yes MickOB that is correct. It's a good starting point. To give you a perspective my MP last year was about 8:40 and my long runs were generally in the 9:40 to 10 minute range.

MickOB94

skyblue46 wrote: »

Yes MickOB that is correct. It's a good starting point. To give you a perspective my MP last year was about 8:40 and my long runs were generally in the 9:40 to 10 minute range.

Perfect, thanks!

Testosterscone

Playing catch up the on the last few days now and there has been a good few points touched on and alot of conflicting information which is probably confusing some so I figured I would give my two cents.

Detraining

Recovery is a very important part of running in general. You can only run as hard as you recover. With this in mind this is why many runners incorporate breaks as part of there overall running year. This goes from Elites right down to your average Joe. The idea behind these breaks is that the fitness levels have plateaued following a block of racing and the break allows them to recover and adapt. You will lose fitness during this time and can have a significant effect on runners:

* Muscle atrophy (shrinkage) after 2-3 weeks
* up to 25 % decrease in endurance
* Vo2 max (can be a performance indicator) decrease of up to 20%
* Flexibility decrease of up to 30%

So why would people want to lose fitness?

Normally 2-3 weeks is the advocated break so fitness lost is minimal as these effects kick in around this time. The gains from recovery mean that the runner starts at a much higher level than there last training block and so they are building from where they were. Its one step back for 2 steps forward.

For Novices here however I would not advocate breaks. You are fresh and at the start of your journeys so consistency is the key. As beginners you will lose fitness faster (unfortunately) meaning consistency should be the key focus this is where you need to be smart, leave the ego at the door in terms of paces and keeping up with the jones, take a day off if you truly feel a dose coming on or a niggle rather than battle through a session just because it's on the plan. One day missed is better than a week or two.

This is why pace management is so important. You could possibly get more out of running a little faster but you could also get a niggle that see's you out for a week meaning you will lose fitness rather and start behind where you were when you get back. Run often and you will improve.

It is a tight rope though. You need to be honest enough with yourself to know when your excuse is out of laziness as well as truthful enough when your body is truly telling you something. We generally tend to veer one side or another (go too easy on ourselves or don't give ourselves a break)

I have seen mega mileage people afraid to push themselves hard enough to improve as well as speed merchants relying on getting away with the hard sessions. Neither work in isolation

Themadhouse

Hi! Ive been running for 18 months now. the last quarter of 2017 saw me struggling with calf injuries and i had to take it easy. All good now. I mainly run 5k races with my dog ( Canicross) and ive 2 half marathons done.


Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
5k: 22;33 feb 2018
10k: 55;50 March 2018
half: 2;03;14 March 2018

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?
No

How much training do you currently do ? run 4/5 times a week averaging 45k, kettlebells most days about 15mins and planking.

What do you want to achieve?
i suppose i am looking at 4hr30. I dont think i have it in me to just run with no time in mind!

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
aiming for 5 days a week, not sure yet as to which plan, it might end up being a mix of both!

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
getting injured close to the date, not finishing, not doing as well as i would hope.

Why are you running this marathon?
I am running it because i run my lsr with a friend and she entered. I figured i will be doing the mileage with her so may as well give it a good lash myself!

skyblue46

Themadhouse wrote: »

Hi! Ive been running for 18 months now. the last quarter of 2017 saw me struggling with calf injuries and i had to take it easy. All good now. I mainly run 5k races with my dog ( Canicross) and ive 2 half marathons done.


Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
5k: 22;33 feb 2018
10k: 55;50 March 2018
half: 2;03;14 March 2018

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?
No

How much training do you currently do ? run 4/5 times a week averaging 45k, kettlebells most days about 15mins and planking.

What do you want to achieve?
i suppose i am looking at 4hr30. I dont think i have it in me to just run with no time in mind!

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
aiming for 5 days a week, not sure yet as to which plan, it might end up being a mix of both!

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
getting injured close to the date, not finishing, not doing as well as i would hope.

Why are you running this marathon?
I am running it because i run my lsr with a friend and she entered. I figured i will be doing the mileage with her so may as well give it a good lash myself!

Hello and welcome. That's a great base you have built up. I think 4.30 is very achievable for you. That's a super 5k time and the long slow runs will help you increase endurance to lower the 10k and half times by quite a distance. Some slower running should also cut down the risk of a recurrence of calf injuries.

What pace do you run your LSR at the moment? What is the breakdown of the 45km week in terms of distances and paces?

Themadhouse

skyblue46 wrote: »

Hello and welcome. That's a great base you have built up. I think 4.30 is very achievable for you. That's a super 5k time and the long slow runs will help you increase endurance to lower the 10k and half times by quite a distance. Some slower running should also cut down the risk of a recurrence of calf injuries.

What pace do you run your LSR at the moment? What is the breakdown of the 45km week in terms of distances and paces?

LSR 6;20/6;30 per km.

1 lsr (20/21k)

2/3 5/6k 5:40 ish per km

1 8-10k 6 ish per km

skyblue46

Themadhouse wrote: »

LSR 6;20/6;30 per km.

1 lsr (20/21k)

2/3 5/6k 5:40 ish per km

1 8-10k 6 ish per km

For marathon training I'd suggest slowing them all down. If you get a chance to read through the thread you can see the benefits which will be garnered from slow runs. At present all your runs are at a faster pace than your hoped for marathon pace. Neither of our plans feature any runs faster than marathon pace. The idea is to build a machine that can run 26.2 miles in October and one which will not break down before then. :-)

Themadhouse

skyblue46 wrote: »

For marathon training I'd suggest slowing them all down. If you get a chance to read through the thread you can see the benefits which will be garnered from slow runs. At present all your runs are at a faster pace than your hoped for marathon pace. Neither of our plans feature any runs faster than marathon pace. The idea is to build a machine that can run 26.2 miles in October and one which will not break down before then. :-)

OK, thanks for that advice. :-) I will have a look through and see what paces i should be doing.

skyblue46

Themadhouse wrote: »

OK, thanks for that advice. :-) I will have a look through and see what paces i should be doing.

Yeah have a read and let us know what you think. You're a tricky one in that your 5k and half race times are out of kilter with each other. Building your endurance whilst carrying up some of your pace will have to be the target.

skyblue46

I'm very interested in following all of your training over the next few months. So far I have only worked out who a few of you are on the Strava group. I'd love if you could PM me your names on Strava so I can complete the picture :-)

coogy

I've heard a lot about Strava but have yet to use it properly after sining up the other week.

It it worthwhile?

OOnegative

coogy wrote: »

I've heard a lot about Strava but have yet to use it properly after sining up the other week.

It it worthwhile?

It’s runnings answer to Tinder or PlentyOfFish!!

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

I've heard a lot about Strava but have yet to sign up.

It it worthwhile?

It's great as a diary of all your runs which you can look back on. I also find it great for keeping me honest. Knowing other people have seen your training and racing is really good.

Themadhouse

skyblue46 wrote: »

Yeah have a read and let us know what you think. You're a tricky one in that your 5k and half race times are out of kilter with each other. Building your endurance whilst carrying up some of your pace will have to be the target.

to be fair my 5k is due to doing canicross with my dog. With that you start off extremely fast for the first 2k and then the dog steadies to a reasonable pace.
I think my last pb on my own was probably early 2017, 24-24:30.

Pup takes all credit for the 22mins. :-D

skyblue46

OOnegative wrote: »

It’s runnings answer to Tinder or PlentyOfFish!!

Haha..that you even know POF is all wrong! :pac::pac:

skyblue46

Themadhouse wrote: »

to be fair my 5k is due to doing canicross with my dog. With that you start off extremely fast for the first 2k and then the dog steadies to a reasonable pace.
I think my last pb on my own was probably early 2017, 24-24:30.

Pup takes all credit for the 22mins. :-D

I need a dog!!! Sub 18 here I come

Themadhouse

skyblue46 wrote: »

I need a dog!!! Sub 18 here I come

Its so much fun. It really pushes you to the limits. Its my speed session. ha1

skyblue46

Themadhouse wrote: »

Its so much fun. It really pushes you to the limits. Its my speed session. ha1

We had a canicross runner on the novices thread last year.

brownbinman

Long week last week with work and stuff, so missed a stretching & foam rolling session. Overall not too bad and feeling good

Monday - Nothing
Tuesday - 5.4km @ 6:27km/hr
Wednesday - Rest
Thursday - 6.44km @ 6:45km/hr & stretching/weights
Friday - Rest
Saturday - 10km @ 7:14km/hr
Sunday - 50km cycle. Rare occurrence and unlikely to happen once DCM plan starts

Think I have the handle on LSR pace as was slower and more enjoyable

Summerflower

Hello everyone, I think its time I bite the bullet and introduce myself. I am new to boards and this is my 1st post so please excuse any mistakes that I may make. I have been running for 4 years now and I have grown to love the longer runs. I completed my 1st half marathon in Sept 2015 and from that moment I knew that someday I would run a marathon.. October 2018 is my someday...

I am a mum to 4 kids ranging in age from a teenager to a preschooler. I have a full time job too so I fit in my 3-4 runs during crazy early mornings or just whenever I get a chance. I am a little old school and keep a diary of my runs and times but I will try to get up to date with strava.. Here are my replies...

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5km - 23:25 (2016), 24:08 (2018)
10km - 48:56 (2016), 53:15 (2018)
10 mile - 1:27:01 (2018)
Half Marathon - 1:53:40 (March 2017), 2:03:07 (May 2018)

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do) - No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

I train 3 - 4 times per week, I have been working on my base as per your advice in this thread and I am now at 20 miles per week. My LSR at the weekend was 11 miles at 10:30 pace. I am part of a club but recently finding it hard to make the sessions, I do plan on getting back to them and I do hope it will help me with training for DCM

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
When I signed up for DCM in December, the dream was to take part, enjoy the journey & finish it. That is still the dream but I would love to finish sub 4:30

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
I plan on following the boards plan and to train 4-5 days per week

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
Before I signed up the biggest fear was could I do it, could I balance work, kids, life, get my runs in and not totally p*** off my other half.... Well after months of thinking about it all, I decided all I can do is my best and I know I will get there.

Why are you running this marathon?
I love running, I love running long runs and I love the feeling after finishing a ten miler or a half marathon so the next logical step was the marathon and I am really looking forward to it.

Looking forward to sharing this journey with you all and learning lots of tips from you all

coogy

Welcome Summerflower!

As a relative newcomer to this thread, I can safely say that you are in good hands here!
I can totally identify with a lot of what you say, in particular when it comes to juggling your day to day routine with trying to squeeze in a marathon training schedule.
The times you posted are very respectable and it seems you have a good base to build on.
I am running similar distances to you at the moment and in my short time here, I have been given lots of great advice on how to improve.
Looking forward to reading about your progress!!!

Dealerz2.0

Just checking in:

Had a really bad lsr on Saturday morning with local running group.

Started at 7am, plan by group was 10 miles, I only wanted to do 8 per my warm up plan to boards plan, but said feck it I’ll do 10 to be social, ended doing 11 and the pace was way too fast and believe it or not the heat was savage. All in all felt exhausted and sore since. Lesson learned is that I need to be a little more selfish from now to October and stick to my plan.

Anyways, alarm set for 6:10am for me “easy” 3 miles!

ariana`

Welcome TheMadhouse. As Skyblue mentioned we had a canicross runner with us last year so you won't be the first! Have you thought about which plan you might follow? And do you still intend on fitting canicross running into the training?

Welcome SummerFlower great to have you on board. You sound like you have your hands full there but isn't running a great way to get some me-time You have great times behind you and a good base, the boards plan is a great choice and very doable.

Dealerz2.0 the pace was probably harder on you than the extra distance to be honest but both together is a bad combination. I hope you kept the 3 miler even easier than normal - recovery pace? It should have helped you if you did.

Dealerz2.0

ariana` wrote: »

Dealerz2.0 the pace was probably harder on you than the extra distance to be honest but both together is a bad combination. I hope you kept the 3 miler even easier than normal - recovery pace? It should have helped you if you did.

Yeah thanks arana ' I sure did and I only did 2.5 as I was in a rush this morning. Should be grand in a few days.

gypsylee

I have not ran in two weeks due to holidays etc. so looking forward to getting out for a slow 10km run tomorrow. Will be consistent with my running from now til October and looking forward to starting the HH plan on the 26th of June.


Baby75 I think I remember from last year's novice thread (I was a big stalker!) that you gave details of an isotonic drink mixture. Can you let me know the quantities please as I would like to try it. Thanks.

Hope everyone's base training is going well.

aloooof

Jumping back into this thread with an update. I completed the Cork Half Marathon on Sunday in 2:00:59! New PB by 3 mins 30, so I'm delighted with that! Was hoping to get sub 2-hours, but it was very hot on the day, it wasn't to be. Thanks to all the mentor's advice leading up to this one! (And KellyGirl, hope the full went ok for you, felt like a tough day out there).

So now with that out of the way, I'm trying to decide fully on a marathon plan. Was originally thinking of doing the HHN2 plan, but I think now I might try the Boards Plan as I think I'd be able for it; I've a decent 5-6 months training under my belt now and I had Pace runs in my Half-Marathon plan as well, which I'd like to keep doing. I also think I'd like to be on the same plan as others on here for moral support when everyone is dreading a weekend 20 miler, say. Any advice welcome.

Dealerz2.0

aloooof wrote: »

Jumping back into this thread with an update. I completed the Cork Half Marathon on Sunday in 2:00:59! New PB by 3 mins 30, so I'm delighted with that! Was hoping to get sub 2-hours, but it was very hot on the day, it wasn't to be. Thanks to all the mentor's advice leading up to this one! (And KellyGirl, hope the full went ok for you, felt like a tough day out there).

So now with that out of the way, I'm trying to decide fully on a marathon plan. Was originally thinking of doing the HHN2 plan, but I think now I might try the Boards Plan as I think I'd be able for it; I've a decent 5-6 months training under my belt now and I had Pace runs in my Half-Marathon plan as well, which I'd like to keep doing. I also think I'd like to be on the same plan as others on here for moral support when everyone is dreading a weekend 20 miler, say. Any advice welcome.

Well done on the half marathon result