DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

Rossi7

Well then give that a go. 4:30 per km, even paced up to at least 8k. If you have something left then push on. It's far enough out from DCM not to do any harm and it will give a good picture of what paces you should be training at.[/quote]

I was going to do 4.40 but seeing as you’ve given me 4.30 I’ll have a crack off that

skyblue46

Rossi7 wrote: »

Well then give that a go. 4:30 per km, even paced up to at least 8k. If you have something left then push on. It's far enough out from DCM not to do any harm and it will give a good picture of what paces you should be training at.

I was going to do 4.40 but seeing as you’ve given me 4.30 I’ll have a crack off that[/QUOTE]

I have become a big believer in even paces. If you want 45 then it's 4:30. If you think 46:30 is more realistic go at 4:40. Be realistic though. No point in dying for the last few Kms.

coogy

Argh, sorry for asking this again but with tomorrow's Boards plan, is it only the hill sprints that should be run at PMP?

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

The advice which I got last year and which I followed was to do them after the pace run. They are 90/95% effort, not MP. After the run and between each sprint allow 2 or 3 minutes for total recovery.

Thanks skyblue., got it now!

Applegirl26

So we are into week 3.
Due to my working days this week I've had to swap Tuesday for Wednesday in the training plan so I headed out this morning for my hill sprints. I had spent the last couple of days fretting over which hill to pick. I even woke up a couple of times during the night worrying about it and at the last minute I changed my mind about what hill to use. On reflection, I wish I had stuck to my guns and used the first steeper hill but anyways..

Speed sessions are totally new for me. I decided to do them in the middle of my PMP run. I feared if I left them until the end, I would run out of steam and I wanted to finish strong. I took about a minute or two rest after each sprint. As I expected the hill seemed longer each time I ran up it and I was glad the plan didn't look for me to do 10!

When I returned to finish my PMP run, I found myself running faster than I needed to, which was a lovely surprise. I remembered the advice here on how to keep the easy stuff easy and the hard stuff hard so I went with it.

I'm delighted now that it went well and I loved trying something new.

aloooof

coogy wrote: »

Argh, sorry for asking this again but with tomorrow's Boards plan, is it only the hill sprints that should be run at PMP?

Was just about to ask similar. Should the other, non-hill sprint bits be at easy pace or PMP? I'm guessing the former but not sure.

Kellygirl

aloooof wrote: »

Was just about to ask similar. Should the other, non-hill sprint bits be at easy pace or PMP? I'm guessing the former but not sure.

We are checking this for sure guys and will get back to you as soon as we can.

imknackered

Hi all,

I've been radio silent on the thread for a while, I aggravated an old knee injury doing the streets of dublin 5k a while back. Spent most of the last month or so doing strengthening work and building the running back in gradually.
The last two weekends i have been able to get an LSR done without any major kickback from my knee (nothing a stretch and a bit of ice didnt fix)

Really happy now to get back on track and more importantly back on plan. Keeping up with the thread has been great for the last while to keep my motivation up. Everyone has started really well, keep it up!!

aloooof

Kellygirl wrote: »

We are checking this for sure guys and will get back to you as soon as we can.

Thanks a million!

Applegirl26

aloooof wrote: »

Was just about to ask similar. Should the other, non-hill sprint bits be at easy pace or PMP? I'm guessing the former but not sure.

I ran it as PMP as it was in the purple shaded section on the plan which is PMP.

skyblue46

Applegirl26 wrote: »

I ran it as PMP as it was in the purple shaded section on the plan which is PMP.

Don't worry, we did it as PMP last year. A question has arisen as the whether that was correct or not. We are checking it out. It won't derail you anyway. ;-)

Aoifemcc19

I get pain under my feet sometimes on my LSR, more in my arch but sometimes on my heel! I roll on a golf ball after and it really sorts it out, yuk feeling on the tendons though!! I also have set myself up to get physio (with a sports therapist who will give me a "good" (painful) massage) once every 3/4 weeks to try and get me to October with my calves still working!! I've also just invested in new shoes but only breaking them in on short runs this week so maybe that will help too!

You guys are all flying it! I'm not quite following the boards plan at the moment, its a bit of a hybrid of 3 plans but doing my LSR on Monday this week was an eye opener!! LSR's straight after a weekend are WAY tougher than the Thursdays I was doing!! Had to swap my runs around due to holidays and having company!! Keep up the good work, hate that Kyber hill but it's perfect for the weeks plans!!

brownbinman

ariana` wrote: »

Another week down, well done everyone.

Here’s what’s ahead for Week 3 of DCM training:

Plan|Monday|Tuesday|Wed|Thurs|Fri|Sat|Sun
NNH1|rest|3m easy|4m easy|3m easy|rest|5m lsr|cross
Boards|rest,cross or 3m rec|3m easy|5m with 5 x hill sprints|4m easy|rest,cross or 3m rec|13m lsr|2m rec


This week introduces the Boards followers to their first set of hill sprints. Do these at least 1 mile into the run and preferably a bit more so you are well warmed up. Have your hill identified in advance, ideally you want it to be pretty steep, think short and sharp.

Question regarding when to do the hill sprints. I always thought they should be done AFTER the run, but if I'm reading it right, they should be done during the run

Am I correct with this?

Helenasca

Dear Rain,

All is forgiven. Please come back for just an hour or so each evening and we would be ever
so grateful.

Kind regards
DCM Novice boards group.

Clibee

I will never complain about running in the cold again!!!
Finding the heat very hard and I’ve just started s&c training too!!! Will stand to us I’m sure !

Mr. Guappa

I was laid low by a tummy bug yesterday and into this morning. Feeling a lot better now, so planning an Easy 5km tomorrow, and all going well the hill sprints on Thursday.

skyblue46

brownbinman wrote: »

Question regarding when to do the hill sprints. I always thought they should be done AFTER the run, but if I'm reading it right, they should be done during the run

Am I correct with this?

I would do my run including a very slow cooldown and then take 2/3 minutes just walking around before doing the hills. Repeat the 2/3 minute walking between sprints and after the last one. Then do a short cooldown jog.

Kellygirl

coogy wrote: »

Argh, sorry for asking this again but with tomorrow's Boards plan, is it only the hill sprints that should be run at PMP?

aloooof wrote: »

Was just about to ask similar. Should the other, non-hill sprint bits be at easy pace or PMP? I'm guessing the former but not sure.

brownbinman wrote: »

Question regarding when to do the hill sprints. I always thought they should be done AFTER the run, but if I'm reading it right, they should be done during the run

Am I correct with this?

Hi guys,

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you.

Please do this run easy, including your hill sprints within the run or at the end. Just make sure you are well warmed up and might depend where the hill comes on your route.

Any pace runs are stated as pace with the warm up and cool down. When you see ‘4m with strides’ or ‘5m with hill sprints’ you can take the majority of the run to be easy.

Hope that clarifies things.

bucketybuck

Can somebody remind me where easy runs come on the sliding scale?

Say my midweek run at MP is 5.40 mins/km, and my LSR is 6.30, then what should the two shorter midweek runs be?

If I run them at a comfortable pace it will be quicker than MP, is that an issue?

Kellygirl

bucketybuck wrote: »

Can somebody remind me where easy runs come on the sliding scale?

Say my midweek run at MP is 5.40 mins/km, and my LSR is 6.30, then what should the two shorter midweek runs be?

If I run them at a comfortable pace it will be quicker than MP, is that an issue?

Easy runs are suppose to be 45-60 seconds slower than MP. Definitely not faster.

skyblue46

bucketybuck wrote: »

Can somebody remind me where easy runs come on the sliding scale?

Say my midweek run at MP is 5.40 mins/km, and my LSR is 6.30, then what should the two shorter midweek runs be?

If I run them at a comfortable pace it will be quicker than MP, is that an issue?

To give you an idea my 10k race pace is about 4 min/km, my half about 4:20. I expect my MP to be about 4:55. I do long runs at about 5:30 and midweek easy runs at 5:45/5:50

With only knowing your 10k time it's very difficult to work out paces for you. My paces are reasonably tightly grouped as I have improved my speed endurance. Your paces should have bigger steps than mine in all probability. However it is to be expected that MP feels easy on short runs as you will be hoping to maintain it for 26.2 miles. Easy runs are effectively recovery runs, putting miles in the legs with as little effort as possible....

bucketybuck

skyblue46 wrote: »

To give you an idea my 10k race pace is about 4 min/km, my half about 4:20. I expect my MP to be about 4:55. I do long runs at about 5:30 and midweek easy runs at 5:45/5:50

With only knowing your 10k time it's very difficult to work out paces for you. My paces are reasonably tightly grouped as I have improved my speed endurance. Your paces should have bigger steps than mine in all probability. However it is to be expected that MP feels easy on short runs as you will be hoping to maintain it for 26.2 miles. Easy runs are effectively recovery runs, putting miles in the legs with as little effort as possible....

I'm surprised to hear that easy runs are slower than the LSR's, I thought the LSR's were the slowest of the slow?

My 5k PB is 22.50, I usually do them in around 25 mins on a normal day.
10k PB is 48.05
Did a half marathon distance recently in 2.01, it was just a LSR though.

I'm aiming for a sub 4hr marathon so was looking at a MP of 5.40. I was happy enough to slow down for the long runs, didn't realise the two short runs were so slow as well. :pac:

Rossi7

Your training to your current fitness not what time your hoping to run the marathon in. As the weeks go on & if your doing races in between you’ll gage your MP & LSR times accordingly

Kellygirl

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm surprised to hear that easy runs are slower than the LSR's, I thought the LSR's were the slowest of the slow?

My 5k PB is 22.50, I usually do them in around 25 mins on a normal day.
10k PB is 48.05
Did a half marathon distance recently in 2.01, it was just a LSR though.

I'm aiming for a sub 4hr marathon so was looking at a MP of 5.40. I was happy enough to slow down for the long runs, didn't realise the two short runs were so slow as well. :pac:

The object of the easy run is to improve your aerobic conditioning by increasing miles but keeping you fresh for your hard runs. They should not tire you out. That’s why they are slower. You’ve probably seen said already to run your easy runs easy and hard runs hard. You can’t run everything hard or fast or you’d be exhausted and setting yourself up for injury.

skyblue46

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm surprised to hear that easy runs are slower than the LSR's, I thought the LSR's were the slowest of the slow?

My 5k PB is 22.50, I usually do them in around 25 mins on a normal day.
10k PB is 48.05
Did a half marathon distance recently in 2.01, it was just a LSR though.

I'm aiming for a sub 4hr marathon so was looking at a MP of 5.40. I was happy enough to slow down for the long runs, didn't realise the two short runs were so slow as well. :pac:

I'm on a different type of plan for now which has long runs only at easy pace whereas midweek runs are very easy to recover from pace type sessions. Your 5k runs should be taking 28/29 minutes to be truly easy and a 10k of 61/62 minutes. An LSR for 13 miles should be 2:10/2:15. Build time on the legs and save energy and wear & tear.

Don't get me wrong, you're far from the worst. The slow down message isn't being heeded by too many...they are slowing down but not by nearly enough. Those that have taken it on board will do really well from it.

Mr. Guappa

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm surprised to hear that easy runs are slower than the LSR's, I thought the LSR's were the slowest of the slow?

My 5k PB is 22.50, I usually do them in around 25 mins on a normal day.
10k PB is 48.05
Did a half marathon distance recently in 2.01, it was just a LSR though.

I'm aiming for a sub 4hr marathon so was looking at a MP of 5.40. I was happy enough to slow down for the long runs, didn't realise the two short runs were so slow as well. :pac:

Same as.
I've been doing pace runs at 5:40/km, Easy runs at about 6.00/km, LSR's at 6:35/km or slower, with recovery in that range too.
So, is that wrong? Should my LSR's be quicker, and my Easy runs slower?

skyblue46

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Same as.
I've been doing pace runs at 5:40/km, Easy runs at about 6.00/km, LSR's at 6:35/km or slower, with recovery in that range too.
So, is that wrong? Should my LSR's be quicker, and my Easy runs slower?

No as I said I am following a different plan. The paces were more to indicate how far from race paces you should be running at. As I said I think someone with race times to back up a 4 hour target should do lsrs at a touch over 6:15km/ 10 mile. Easy runs should be very similar, maybe 10 secs a km faster.

Dealerz2.0

My legs are on fire after that 5 miles plus hill sprints, just saying!

gypsylee

Dealerz2.0 wrote: »

My legs are on fire after that 5 miles plus hill sprints, just saying!

Well done. It will be worth it.

Strawberry Swan

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm surprised to hear that easy runs are slower than the LSR's, I thought the LSR's were the slowest of the slow?

It is a good question to ask how easy an easy run should be. With our plans the LSR is the slowest and then the easy runs a little faster, as Skyblue said. However, an easy run may need to become a recovery run depending on factors such as how you are feeling, previous/next training session, upcoming race, etc. I found useful the graphic at the end of this article detailing what factors to take into consideration when judging how easy to go. Ignore the grey 'progress to moderate' box

https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20835578/the-easy-day-pace/