DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

juke

skyblue46 wrote: »

Race is but a word and it's not a race for more than a handful at the front. For the thousands of others it is a mix of proving to themselves that they can complete the distance, that they can PB, that they can beat the person from down the road or in your case that you can do it without aggravating your injury.

And show myself if I have the discipline to cop on, to pull up/slow down if I need to.

skyblue46

juke wrote: »

And show myself if I have the discipline to cop on, to pull up/slow down if I need to.

A very useful thing to learn because the first 20 miles of DCM is all about slowing down!

eyrie

juke wrote: »

You are asking the hard questions, eyrie.
Why:

1. Because I've paid for it;
   
2. Because if I don't, in my head I'll feel like DCM '18 is even more out of reach

Argh, I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this! When you put it like that it seems such a shame to miss it, but the last thing you want is to do anything that threatens the marathon even further. So it's in your hands I think - head out for it but be sensible? Let your shoulder be the boss of the day!! And I'll stop being a naysayer now, I swear!

juke

eyrie wrote: »

Argh, I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this! When you put it like that it seems such a shame to miss it, but the last thing you want is to do anything that threatens the marathon even further. So it's in your hands I think - head out for it but be sensible? Let your shoulder be the boss of the day!! And I'll stop being a naysayer now, I swear!

You asked just what I need to make me think hard, another reason this thread is great!

**Timbuk2**

Last run before South Dublin 10k done.

Enjoying the weather this week. Without the heat, it's the first time the easy runs have felt easy!!

Huzzah!

whiskey_sour wrote: »

Thanks Kelly girl, no I've never had heartburn before and ate very normally yesterday so not sure if I picked up a bug or something while I was away. I'll chance running later and turn back if its bothering me again. I was up half the night with it last night.

I swear by eating an apple when I've heartburn. There's no scientific evidence to back this up, it just works for me.

ariana`

Any decision made Juke? It's a tough one for sure. Given that you got the Physio's go-ahead then I'd say why not BUT treat it as a training run - run comfortable, enjoy the atmosphere and the buzz of the race, learn/practice how to pace yourself (in a crowd of crazies who think they're greyhounds at the start - we've all done this :P ), practice even, controlled pacing. Listen to you body and if it's not going to plan, DNF. You can still benefit a lot from running it this way and if it ends up being a DNF well at least you tried and you can go back to Physio with more information, if you don't try you'll be sitting at home wondering if you could have done it!

How is everyone else feeling about the 10k - any nerves? Have you all a pacing strategy in mind - please try to control the greyhound urges mentioned previously if you can!!

Have you thought about fueling for Sunday morning - it's a good opportunity to try to eat the same breakfast you think you will eat on the morning of the marathon and see how it works for you.

It looks like weather conditions will be good - around 15 degrees i believe, after all the recent warm weather training this should be no problem for you guys you are well prepared

Huzzah!

juke wrote: »

Conflicting views, I like it Thanks both.

Why:

1. Because I've paid for it;
2. Because if I don't, in my head I'll feel like DCM '18 is even more out of reach

Why not:

1. When i run from home, if I feel uncomfortable, I can double back, take a short cut home - not so easy on the middle of a 10k with roads closed
2. I may get caught up in the buzz, and push too hard, even subconsciously.

Argh, decisions.

skyblue46 wrote: »

Race is but a word and it's not a race for more than a handful at the front. For the thousands of others it is a mix of proving to themselves that they can complete the distance, that they can PB, that they can beat the person from down the road or in your case that you can do it without aggravating your injury.

I'm not supposed to race in my plan, so I try not to. I'm a huge fan of running races as training runs. It's enjoyable to go to events and get to run with others. It's handy to be supplied with water, etc. It's great way to practice pacing. My only concern in your case is that you might get jostled, which could aggravate your shoulder more.

Applegirl26

ariana` wrote: »

Any decision made Juke? It's a tough one for sure. Given that you got the Physio's go-ahead then I'd say why not BUT treat it as a training run - run comfortable, enjoy the atmosphere and the buzz of the race, learn/practice how to pace yourself (in a crowd of crazies who think they're greyhounds at the start - we've all done this :P ), practice even, controlled pacing. Listen to you body and if it's not going to plan, DNF. You can still benefit a lot from running it this way and if it ends up being a DNF well at least you tried and you can go back to Physio with more information, if you don't try you'll be sitting at home wondering if you could have done it!

How is everyone else feeling about the 10k - any nerves? Have you all a pacing strategy in mind - please try to control the greyhound urges mentioned previously if you can!!

Have you thought about fueling for Sunday morning - it's a good opportunity to try to eat the same breakfast you think you will eat on the morning of the marathon and see how it works for you.

It looks like weather conditions will be good - around 15 degrees i believe, after all the recent warm weather training this should be no problem for you guys you are well prepared

I'm looking forward to the 10k. After the lsr last weekend it will seem like a rest, almost.

I love love love the race series. My plan is to start out conservatively and increase up as I go, while keeping something in the tank for the final km. I'm nervous of running too fast and getting injured. If I find that I'm not going to be running any PB's on Sunday I will pull back and treat it as a training run. I'm not going to jeopardise DCM for a 10k.

I'll get up early on Sunday to force down a slice of toast with peanut butter, my pre race staple.

The weather doesn't bother me. After the snow and then the heatwave I think I could run in anything.

Good luck to everyone running the 10k! 😊

Rossi7

Applegirl26 wrote: »

ariana` wrote: »

Any decision made Juke? It's a tough one for sure. Given that you got the Physio's go-ahead then I'd say why not BUT treat it as a training run - run comfortable, enjoy the atmosphere and the buzz of the race, learn/practice how to pace yourself (in a crowd of crazies who think they're greyhounds at the start - we've all done this :P ), practice even, controlled pacing. Listen to you body and if it's not going to plan, DNF. You can still benefit a lot from running it this way and if it ends up being a DNF well at least you tried and you can go back to Physio with more information, if you don't try you'll be sitting at home wondering if you could have done it!  

How is everyone else feeling about the 10k - any nerves? Have you all a pacing strategy in mind - please try to control the greyhound urges mentioned previously if you can!!

Have you thought about fueling for Sunday morning - it's a good opportunity to try to eat the same breakfast you think you will eat on the morning of the marathon and see how it works for you.

It looks like weather conditions will be good - around 15 degrees i believe, after all the recent warm weather training this should be no problem for you guys you are well prepared

I'm looking forward to the 10k. After the lsr last weekend it will seem like a rest, almost.

I love love love the race series. My plan is to start out conservatively and increase up as I go, while keeping something in the tank for the final km. I'm nervous of running too fast and getting injured. If I find that I'm not going to be running any PB's on Sunday I will pull back and treat it as a training run. I'm not going to jeopardise DCM for a 10k.

I'll get up early on Sunday to force down a slice of toast with peanut butter, my pre race staple.

The weather doesn't bother me. After the snow and then the heatwave I think I could look run in anything.

Good luck to everyone running the 10k! 😊

I think you should race it, might give you a better time to work off on your trainng run's. Plenty of time to recover for DCM, think of racing as a little treat from all the training ;)

Applegirl26

Rossi7 wrote: »

I think you should race it, might give you a better time to work off on your trainng run's. Plenty of time to recover for DCM, think of racing as a little treat from all the training ;)

Thanks, I'd love to bring my 10k time down...
Watch this space!! 😂

Rossi7

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Rossi7 wrote: »

I think you should race it, might give you a better time to work off on your trainng run's. Plenty of time to recover for DCM, think of racing as a little treat from all the training ;)

Thanks, I'd love to bring my 10k time down...
Watch this space!! 😂

I'll be giving it a good rattle myself, best of luck. Hopefully the weather will be like today

aloooof

Rossi7 wrote: »

I'll be giving it a good rattle myself, best of luck. Hopefully the weather will be like today

It looks like it'll still be warm, but nothing we're not used to at this stage. Looking forward to giving it a right go, now. Last chance we'll have to do 10k pace for awhile, may as well enjoy it (if that's the right word).

Best of luck anyone who's doing it!

Baby75

juke wrote: »

Looking for some opinions - I probably know the real answer in my heart but interested in others views.

My shoulder/back is still a problem. BUT I've had an MRI & physio has given me exercises and full permission to run so long as I don't aggravate any symptoms. I'm c. 2 weeks behind schedule, but not freaking out yet. Still clocking away k's at an easy pace, at the moment up to an hour every other day - and they've been fine. I'm a slow runner.

I've entered the race series. The SD 10k is on Sunday. It's not far from me. I have my race number. It's pretty. I have fancy new magnets to use instead of safety pins

Is there any point in doing the 10k at the weekend, even as a training run?
If I do and it feels good for the first 5k, I could up the tempo.

I am likely to face strong opposition from my OH - buy he doesn't really get this running lark at all anyway (I know he's reading my log, but I'm not sure he's stalking me here yet, I guess I'll find out soon :eek:)

I am running it as a training run, with the go-ahead from my coach and Physio but as a training run as well! but the way I see it, I will get to run with good company! meet up with some of last years DCM Novices and maybe some of you guys get my nice new t-shirt So if you ask me I say yes go for it!

juke wrote: »

Conflicting views, I like it Thanks both.



See, this is what I really want to do. I suppose in the course of a 'race' I might be less inclined to pay attention to warning signs.



You are asking the hard questions, eyrie.
Why:

1. Because I've paid for it;
2. Because if I don't, in my head I'll feel like DCM '18 is even more out of reach

Why not:

1. When i run from home, if I feel uncomfortable, I can double back, take a short cut home - not so easy on the middle of a 10k with roads closed
2. I may get caught up in the buzz, and push too hard, even subconsciously.

As to magnets, I need protection for Amazon's recommendations https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00V5LPFXK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

On your last two points, Clondalkin is not that big and if the worst came to it and you needed to pull up, use your phone and google map the quickest way to the finish ( let someone know if you pull up though) or walk to a marshal and I would say they will get you back to the start/finish

If your running by feel and keep it conversational you should be good, But I was worried about that as well. So I am going to set my watch to beep at me if I go over a certain pace and hoping I can find a group at my pace to run with

I think it is going to be warm so wont to be to hard to slow down

juke

Applegirl26 wrote: »

I'm not going to jeopardise DCM for a 10k.

Baby75 wrote: »

I am running it as a training run, with the go-ahead from my coach and Physio but as a training run as well! but the way I see it, I will get to run with good company! meet up with some of last years DCM Novices and maybe some of you guys get my nice new t-shirt So if you ask me I say yes go for it!

Huzzah! wrote: »

Argh, decisions.
My only concern in your case is that you might get jostled, which could aggravate your shoulder more.

And more views, and all good points. I love it. Thanks

I'm still on the fence. I really want to do it. My heart tells me not to.

Unlike my running mentor who was unequivocal in his view: ABSOLUTELY NOT :pac: He mentioned the jostling (disregarding my 'but I'd be starting at the back') but concentrated more on the stubbornness of me wanting to finish, and thus ignoring any warning signs. And, to be fair, we've worked together for 12 years, so he knows my character.

I'll make a final call in the morning. I suppose worst case, I could be an this years inaugural 'flapjack' bringer if there was numbers and interest in a novices meet up?
(caveat, I have never baked a flapjack :eek:)

OOnegative

juke wrote: »

And more views, and all good points. I love it. Thanks

I'm still on the fence. I really want to do it. My heart tells me not to.

Unlike my running mentor who was unequivocal in his view: ABSOLUTELY NOT :pac: He mentioned the jostling (disregarding my 'but I'd be starting at the back') but concentrated more on the stubbornness of me wanting to finish, and thus ignoring any warning signs. And, to be fair, we've worked together for 12 years, so he knows my character.

I'll make a final call in the morning. I suppose worst case, I could be an this years inaugural 'flapjack' bringer if there was numbers and interest in a novices meet up?
(caveat, I have never baked a flapjack :eek:)

I think your an idiot if you do it and I mean that in the nicest way. Possibly jeopardised your big goal for the year for a training run 10k, come on really? If your running mentor says no that would be enough for me. You don’t know me from jack and you can tell me to shove it but I think it’s a bad idea. Mind you i’m the man who nearly passed out at a pedestrian crossing recently so what do I know.

Kellygirl

juke wrote: »

And more views, and all good points. I love it. Thanks

I'm still on the fence. I really want to do it. My heart tells me not to.

Unlike my running mentor who was unequivocal in his view: ABSOLUTELY NOT :pac: He mentioned the jostling (disregarding my 'but I'd be starting at the back') but concentrated more on the stubbornness of me wanting to finish, and thus ignoring any warning signs. And, to be fair, we've worked together for 12 years, so he knows my character.

I'll make a final call in the morning. I suppose worst case, I could be an this years inaugural 'flapjack' bringer if there was numbers and interest in a novices meet up?
(caveat, I have never baked a flapjack :eek:)

I do think you know what is at stake so you are bound to have the sense not to take off and if it was me I’d nearly want to prove to people that I could do what I said I was going to do.

BTW, Used somebody bring flapjacks last year???

juke

OOnegative wrote: »

I think your an idiot if you do it and I mean that in the nicest way. Possibly jeopardised your big goal for the year for a training run 10k, come on really? If your running mentor says no that would be enough for me. You don’t know me from jack and you can tell me to shove it but I think it’s a bad idea.

You know what, you can go and shove it :mad:

No seriously :pac:, I value your comment, and those you make on my log. You have an impressive background and are no stranger to injury - so your opinion means a lot! Just stop running when you are dizzy, ok

Hobbyjogger

The man in red and black wrote: »

Question: Could anyone recommend trails or grass routes in South Kilkenny? I'm trying to stick to roughly 2/3 of my training on grass/trails and the other 1/3 on the roads. Have been running in Mount Juliet but it is seriously hilly and I'm reading too much hill training is bad for your calves/achilles.

Have you tried the linear walk from Bennettsbridge to Kilkenny? Roughly 10k one way, so a good one especially for long runs.. reasonably flat too

P.s. haven't posted in awhile, I'm part of the bunch looking forward to Sunday's 10k, hoping for a PB and going to try out Garmin's virtual pacer, as I'm in between normal pacer times.. assuming there's even pacers?

juke

Kellygirl wrote: »

I do think you know what is at stake so you are bound to have the sense not to take off and if it was me I’d nearly want to prove to people that I could do what I said I was going to do.

BTW, Used somebody bring flapjacks last year???

No - but they did during the previous 2 years....long time lurker of these threads!

eyrie

juke wrote: »

No - but they did during the previous 2 years....long time lurker of these threads!

I strongly support there being flapjacks this year! Although I won't be at the 10k...

Kellygirl

Recipe for the baker - whoever they may be ;-) My kids love these!

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2011/mar/10/how-to-cook-perfect-flapjacks?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_WhatsApp

The man in red and black

Hobbyjogger wrote: »

Have you tried the linear walk from Bennettsbridge to Kilkenny? Roughly 10k one way, so a good one especially for long runs.. reasonably flat too

Thanks a million Hobbyjogger. Exactly the type of thing I was looking for! Where does that start in Bennetsbridge? The Pottery side of the river or the Graveyard side?

OOnegative wrote: »

If your 10k is 48min 15secs your running those runs way to fast, your easy runs should be no quicker than 8.45min/mile and long run pace should be about 9min/miles or bit slower. You don’t slow down you will get injured.

Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated.

Edit: Checked the results online, actually ran 47:24 for the 10k so 7:40/mile roughly.
The 10k was 20th May so I had 6 weeks more training done before starting marathon training 2 weeks ago so presumably fitter. But still I believe you I am going to fast. Will have to slow down. I am new to this running lark and was just making up my own training until the marathon program started.
How much can you pick up the pace come races? Like if consistently training at 9mins/mile what can you expect to run in a race? I have heard its about the miles covered not the speed you train at so I presume it's true?

Hobbyjogger

The man in red and black wrote: »

Thanks a million Hobbyjogger. Exactly the type of thing I was looking for! Where does that start in Bennetsbridge? The Pottery side of the river or the Graveyard

I'm not too familiar with bennettsbridge but I think it's the graveyard side? The side with the pub! You go down into a field opposite the pub on the corner (think there's picnic benches down there) and kind of under the bridge.. there's a fence along the right and you follow that. I hope that helps!

skyblue46

The man in red and black wrote: »

Thanks a million Hobbyjogger. Exactly the type of thing I was looking for! Where does that start in Bennetsbridge? The Pottery side of the river or the Graveyard side?



Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated.

The 10k was 20th May so I had 6 weeks more training done before starting marathon training 2 weeks ago so presumably fitter. But still I believe you I am going to fast. Will have to slow down. I am new to this running lark and was just making up my own training until the marathon program started.
How much can you pick up the pace come races? Like if consistently training at 9mins/mile what can you expect to run in a race? I have heard its about the miles covered not the speed you train at so I presume it's true?

You have it back to front. You set your training paces based on race times because that assumes an all out effort. You can't predict a race time based on training paces without knowing how close to your limits you are training at. 9 mins per mile is too fast for a 48 minute 10k runner. It's not just about miles covered either, it's how the distance, pace, number of hard runs, recovery etc work together. Lots of slow miles...good. Lots of fast miles... Not so good.

roosterman71

skyblue46 wrote: »

Lots of slow miles...good. Lots of fast miles... Not so good.

Can you explain this more? A mate of mine is training for Dublin. I'm sticking to a HH/Boards hybrid program, but this lad is out and goes balls out everytime. Shortest run would be 10k and be doing it in 43/44mins. And he does a long run every couple of weeks. Last night done 25k in 2 hours. His fastest half was a few months ago at 1.40, same time as myself.

Swashbuckler

roosterman71 wrote:

Can you explain this more? A mate of mine is training for Dublin. I'm sticking to a HH/Boards hybrid program, but this lad is out and goes balls out everytime. Shortest run would be 10k and be doing it in 43/44mins. And he does a long run every couple of weeks. Last night done 25k in 2 hours. His fastest half was a few months ago at 1.40, same time as myself.

He'll either find out the hard way at mile 22 in Dublin or he'll be one of those lucky bluffers! Either way that style of training will catch up with him. He'll either end up injured or see a big saturation in improvement over time.

The man in red and black

Hobbyjogger wrote: »

I'm not too familiar with bennettsbridge but I think it's the graveyard side? The side with the pub! You go down into a field opposite the pub on the corner (think there's picnic benches down there) and kind of under the bridge.. there's a fence along the right and you follow that. I hope that helps!

That's great thanks. Will have to try it out this weekend!

skyblue46 wrote: »

You have it back to front. You set your training paces based on race times because that assumes an all out effort. You can't predict a race time based on training paces without knowing how close to your limits you are training at. 9 mins per mile is too fast for a 48 minute 10k runner. It's not just about miles covered either, it's how the distance, pace, number of hard runs, recovery etc work together. Lots of slow miles...good. Lots of fast miles... Not so good.

That's very helpful thanks alot. Will slow down the training stick to the program and then the next time a run is on the program I can judge timing from that? Or am I still wrong and shouldn't be going 100% in any races between now and the marathon? Sorry for all the questions these are probably such basic concepts!

skyblue46

roosterman71 wrote: »

Can you explain this more? A mate of mine is training for Dublin. I'm sticking to a HH/Boards hybrid program, but this lad is out and goes balls out everytime. Shortest run would be 10k and be doing it in 43/44mins. And he does a long run every couple of weeks. Last night done 25k in 2 hours. His fastest half was a few months ago at 1.40, same time as myself.

Sweet divine Jesus! He is mad. I've done 1:34 and hope for 1:30 next and i rarely run 10k in training faster than 53 minutes. Slow runs, particularly over 2 hours enable the body to make the adaptations to run long. Read back through the thread and there are some very detailed explanations as to why. Your friend is as you say going balls out on every run which increases burnout and injury risk. Worse is that he is not enabling his body to prepare for a marathon.

Swashbuckler

The man in red and black wrote:

That's very helpful thanks alot. Will slow down the training stick to the program and then the next time a run is on the program I can judge timing from that? Or am I still wrong and shouldn't be going 100% in any races between now and the marathon? Sorry for all the questions these are probably such basic concepts!

Don't apologize. It's what the thread is for! I'd imagine the advice for 10k is absolutely race it. And judge paces from that.