DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

Helenasca

I'm back with a bang. Achilles tendon seems to have mended nicely. Still feel the need for a bit of strapping whilst running but all good. Even managed my 10k on Sunday in place of the finglas run. Watched a video of it, looked like a really nice route. I've our tag rugby final on fri evening and then it's 100% focus on this running craic. Next step is to start trying out the energy stuff gels etc and see how they fair out, trial and error I suppose to see what suits.

juke

Great reading all the race reports on what seemed like a very humid day. Great to read, if a bit jealous :P

Well done all, especially you guys who struggled. All miles to build on.

Shoulder is ok, but I feel like it's 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Finding the additional 1.5-2 hours additional commute challenging, both with stamina and spare time. 2nd opinion tomorrow, so fingers crossed.

Strawberry Swan

Finished my week training today as I fell a bit behind with my schedule. The runs are going well but what I'm finding the toughest is being organised. It's not my strongest point and I'm a bit of a Phoebe tbh Keep forgetting gear to bring into work or not having food bought/ready etc. Don't have kids so no excuse.

On the running front I am up to weekly total of 30 miles which is surprising this early. For my previous marathon years ago 33 was my max mileage. Knees are a bit sore now and then but nothing serious. Think I may have to buy new runners. Got a 14.5m lsr in on Sat but took 4 hours due to taking pics and calling in to feed a cat. Perhaps just a tad too slow :rolleyes:

Huzzah!

juke wrote: »

Great reading all the race reports on what seemed like a very humid day. Great to read, if a bit jealous :P

Well done all, especially you guys who struggled. All miles to build on.

Shoulder is ok, but I feel like it's 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Finding the additional 1.5-2 hours additional commute challenging, both with stamina and spare time. 2nd opinion tomorrow, so fingers crossed.

Did you try the runmute after? How'd it go?

smashiner

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I have a stag (2-nighter) coming up at the weekend
I'm really enjoying the training. When I'm not running I'm thinking about running! If someone asks me to do something, go somewhere or if I've an event coming up my first thought is how will that impact my training schedule. I may need to work on my running/life balance!!

Ha ha, you have officially caught the DCM Running bug .......soon all Novices will be in conversations with family and friends and scanning them for the words 'running' or 'marathon' and will immediately get a glazed over look and switch off if these words are not present.

This running madness will last at least up until December 31st of this year.

Enjoy the stag with the lads.....I suggest that you only drink electrolytes and water on the weekend and then home to bed at 8:30pm each night....the lads will have to understand......after all you are training for the 'Marathon' ....:D

cullenswood

I was chatting to the wife last week and mentioned that there are only 100 days left to the marathon. The look on my wife's face said it all....100 more bloody days of this obsession....

aloooof

smashiner wrote: »

Ha ha, you have officially caught the DCM Running bug .......soon all Novices will be in conversations with family and friends and scanning them for the words 'running' or 'marathon' and will immediately get a glazed over look and switch off if these words are not present.

I've had this but in reverse. Family and friends are the ones getting a glazed over look and switching off when I start talking about running! :pac:

eyrie

aloooof wrote: »

I've had this but in reverse. Family and friends are the ones getting a glazed over look and switching off when I start talking about running! :pac:

Yes, this!! Well only my poor boyfriend actually, I've kept it quiet around everyone else so far. Which means he gets stuck with listening (or not listening, let's be honest :P) to ALL of it. And he gets the dubious honour of driving me to races and having to stand around and then cheer like a mad yoke. Heh, I'll owe him the medal if I make it to the finish line I reckon.

Huzzah!

eyrie wrote: »

Yes, this!! Well only my poor boyfriend actually, I've kept it quiet around everyone else so far. Which means he gets stuck with listening (or not listening, let's be honest :P) to ALL of it. And he gets the dubious honour of driving me to races and having to stand around and then cheer like a mad yoke. Heh, I'll owe him the medal if I make it to the finish line I reckon.

My O/H is a runner. He's following the same training plan as I am for the same marathon and I even manage to bore him senseless with my running chat

coogy

Question for my fellow novices!!!

Have any of you been taken by surprise by just how enthusiastic you have become about running since you first made the decision to run the marathon?

I'll be honest, I can remember back in November, arriving home with my new running shoes and staring at the box thinking "do I really want to do this?"

Even my first few weeks of running were plagued with indecision about how far I wanted to take this and on a couple of occasions, was only short of sending a 'can you come get me' text to my wife at home, after only 3k of a 5k run.

Now, I find it impossible to go a day without thinking about running in some way, shape or form and on rest days, I am restless

I get more than just enjoyment out if it, I would say that I benefit from it more than any other form of activity I've ever done and I've been pretty active over the years with various sports.

Can't quite put my finger on it but I am LOVING this!

Hedgehoggy

coogy wrote: »

Question for my fellow novices!!!

Have any of you been taken by surprise by just how enthusiastic you have become about running since you first made the decision to run the marathon?

I'll be honest, I can remember back in November, arriving home with my new running shoes and staring at the box thinking "do I really want to do this?"

Even my first few weeks of running were plagued with indecision about how far I wanted to take this and on a couple of occasions, was only short of sending a 'can you come get me' text to my wife at home, after only 3k of a 5k run.

Now, I find it impossible to go a day without thinking about running in some way, shape or form and on rest days, I am restless

I get more than just enjoyment out if it, I would say that I benefit from it more than any other form of activity I've ever done and I've been pretty active over the years with various sports.

Can't quite put my finger on it but I am LOVING this!

+1



Really enjoying it. Last week I had to go to London for work and I kept all my runs going even though I was knackered.Would previously have used circumstances like that to allow myself off the hook for that week and probably the next week too - running doesnt seem like something I should do anymore, its something I enjoy!!

yido1882

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

coogy wrote: »

Question for my fellow novices!!!

Have any of you been taken by surprise by just how enthusiastic you have become about running since you first made the decision to run the marathon?

I'll be honest, I can remember back in November, arriving home with my new running shoes and staring at the box thinking "do I really want to do this?"  

Even my first few weeks of running were plagued with indecision about how far I wanted to take this and on a couple of occasions, was only short of sending a 'can you come get me' text to my wife at home, after only 3k of a 5k run.

Now, I find it impossible to go a day without thinking about running in some way, shape or form and on rest days, I am restless

I get more than just enjoyment out if it, I would say that I benefit from it more than any other form of activity I've ever done and I've been pretty active over the years with various sports.

Can't quite put my finger on it but I am LOVING this!

+1



Really enjoying it. Last week I had to go to London for work and I kept all my runs going even though I was knackered.Would previously have used circumstances like that to allow myself off the hook for that week and probably the next week too - running doesnt seem like something I should do anymore, its something I enjoy!!

I would have been the same in the past, I'd be a bit tired or sore and you'd skip going for a run. I've never followed a plan before until training for this DCM and I think that's helped a lot that it's set out for you what you need to do between now and October to be ready. 
I do all my runs myself which suits me but this thread helps a lot to stay motivated and know there's others having good and bad days too!

chabsey

chabsey wrote: »

Thanks, I agree I need to slow down / lower the intensity. I'm thinking (hoping) now that this ankle issue which I've been obsessing about today is more to do with tight muscles than an actual injury. Ibuprofen doesn't do much...so maybe rolling or trigger points might work it out.

Well, after resting it for 48 hours I had my intervals this morning and the ankle is still an issue. Have a physio appointment this Friday anyway so I'm off my feet until then.

Rossi7

chabsey wrote: »

chabsey wrote: »

Thanks, I agree I need to slow down / lower the intensity. I'm thinking (hoping) now that this ankle issue which I've been obsessing about today is more to do with tight muscles than an actual injury. Ibuprofen doesn't do much...so maybe rolling or trigger points might work it out.

Well, after resting it for 48 hours I had my intervals this morning and the ankle is still an issue. Have a physio appointment this Friday anyway so I'm off my feet until then.

I think your learning the hard way regarding keeping the easy pace easy, doing intervals this morning with a dodgey ankle wasn't the greatest of ideas. Not having a go, I was like that myself at the start hammering away each run and strained my calf 3 times in about 6 months. We'd similar times on Sunday, just looking at your Strava and not one of your runs have averaged 6min k's. Just to give you a bit of context, I averaged 4.30 per k on Sunday my run yesterday was 6.17. 
It's not just you, were all at it. I wince when I see some of the "easy run" paces, we are only fooling ourselves for the sake of Strava. As the LSR's increases, we'll all end up on the physio table if we don't make the easy runs easy.

chabsey

Rossi7 wrote: »

I think your learning the hard way regarding keeping the easy pace easy, doing intervals this morning with a dodgey ankle wasn't the greatest of ideas. Not having a go, I was like that myself at the start hammering away each run and strained my calf 3 times in about 6 months. We'd similar times on Sunday, just looking at your Strava and not one of your runs have averaged 6min k's. Just to give you a bit of context, I averaged 4.30 per k on Sunday my run yesterday was 6.17. 
It's not just you, were all at it. I wince when I see some of the "easy run" paces, we are only fooling ourselves for the sake of Strava. As the LSR's increases, we'll all end up on the physio table if we don't make the easy runs easy.

Fair enough, my currently injured status serves as proof of your point. What I'll say in my defense is that I'm following the Hanson's plan and the paces etc that I've been hitting are based on the calculations of my planned finishing time. So, running events aside, I have actually been pretty close to their paces.

Intervals this morning wouldn't have been my choice but the layout of the plan is specific enough that if I was to skip it after taking the Monday off I would have messed the week up considerably.

Obviously messing my ankle up is a worse outcome than messing the plan up but I didn't go into the run this morning knowing my ankle was going to be a problem, it had faded quite a bit and I wasn't sure if the final sprint on Sunday or just general usage had caused the problem.

In any case I'm off it now and not feeling wonderful, this is the first injury that feels like it might be a proper one and not just a byproduct of tightness elsewhere. Very annoying.

whiskey_sour

Sheep1978 wrote: »

what about incorporating the 10k into your LSR. Rather than race the 10k, use it as part of your run and for experience purposes etc.?

; ariana`;107591336
Oh sugar, that's crap. You may get conflicting advice but if it was me i think i'd do as you suggest              and ditch the 10k and try to get the 15m done, the long runs being the priority for marathon training and especially as it seems you may need some extra practice to get the stomach issues resolved. Best of luck whatever you decide, let us know how the week goes.


Thanks for the advice ariana and Sheep1978, I think I'll just do a normal LSR this week and forget about the race. Am disappointed as really wanted to see if the training is paying off but sure needs must! And I hadn't actually signed up yet so won't lose my registration money or anything.
I ran this morning for the first time since the LSR and my stomach was fine so definitely think it was just a bad week. I've always had stomach issues in general but usually it's very manageable, I just get flare ups from time to time. I've found a half marathon near me that's the same day as the Rock n Roll which a lot of people here seem to be doing so that might fit in well with the plan and isn't too far away....the only thing about it is I feel like if that's my last race before the actual marathon there's quite a big gap? Is who's doing the RnR instead of the Dublin half thinking of doing a 10k or something in between just to see where they're at?

Rossi7

chabsey wrote: »

Rossi7 wrote: »

I think your learning the hard way regarding keeping the easy pace easy, doing intervals this morning with a dodgey ankle wasn't the greatest of ideas. Not having a go, I was like that myself at the start hammering away each run and strained my calf 3 times in about 6 months. We'd similar times on Sunday, just looking at your Strava and not one of your runs have averaged 6min k's. Just to give you a bit of context, I averaged 4.30 per k on Sunday my run yesterday was 6.17. 
It's not just you, were all at it. I wince when I see some of the "easy run" paces, we are only fooling ourselves for the sake of Strava. As the LSR's increases, we'll all end up on the physio table if we don't make the easy runs easy.

Fair enough, my currently injured status serves as proof of your point. What I'll say in my defense is that I'm following the Hanson's plan and the paces etc that I've been hitting are based on the calculations of my planned finishing time. So, running events aside, I have actually been pretty close to their paces.

Intervals this morning wouldn't have been my choice but the layout of the plan is specific enough that if I was to skip it after taking the Monday off I would have messed the week up considerably.

Obviously messing my ankle up is a worse outcome than messing the plan up but I didn't go into the run this morning knowing my ankle was going to be a problem, it had faded quite a bit and I wasn't sure if the final sprint on Sunday or just general usage had caused the problem.

In any case I'm off it now and not feeling wonderful, this is the first injury that feels like it might be a proper one and not just a byproduct of tightness elsewhere. Very annoying.

What are you basing your planned finishing time off ?

skyblue46

Rossi7 wrote: »

What are you basing your planned finishing time off ?

I love the way you're thinking. I'm glad you're noticing the things I am on Strava and I can now leave the group to self police itself. :pac:

The recent MP runs and 10k races were hugely informative. The number of so called easy runs being done at paces within a minute of race pace and at or close to PMP was a bit of an eye opener.

Murph_D

Well it is a marathon improvers thread. For most of us, the biggest improvements come in the first few marathons, based simply on increased base mileage and the resulting endurance.

Assuming we train sensibly of course. Not sure about chabsey’s history and whether paces are appropriate or not, but Hanson plan itself (like any other I’ve seen) is very specific on this. You train based on results, not aspirations.

It’s such a simple principle, but one so often ignored.

bucketybuck

Speaking of results and not goals, and since the first race of the series is now done could I ask again about what paces I should be hitting?

My 10k from Sunday was a PB of 46.30, average pace of 4.38 and going by the McMillan calculator this could translate to a marathon pace of 5.11 and a time of 3.40.

My goal time was 4hrs, a pace of 5.39.

Based on my latest race should I be revising that goal time and increasing the paces accordingly?

skyblue46

bucketybuck wrote: »

Speaking of results and not goals, and since the first race of the series is now done could I ask again about what paces I should be hitting?

My 10k from Sunday was a PB of 46.30, average pace of 4.38 and going by the McMillan calculator this could translate to a marathon pace of 5.11 and a time of 3.40.

My goal time was 4hrs, a pace of 5.39.

Based on my latest race should I be revising that goal time and increasing the paces accordingly?

Marathon predictions from any site, not just Mc Millan, are a bit optimistic at best. They also assume that you are equally as well trained, something which takes a few training blocks to achieve normally. I'd stay thinking 3:50-4:00 hours if I was you and maybe do MP miles at 5:30 per km

beakerjoe

Hi guys, signed up to the Novice thread last year and feel like its time to do it again.

This is my 3rd DCM and while I feel like I know some things, I still feel like a novice.

My prevoius times was 3.42 in 2012 and 4.20 last year.

Back running about 7 weeks now and its tough but Im slowly getting fitter. Did the 10k in SD at the weekend in 49 mins, which was 1 minute better than I expected so thats a plus.

But Im proof you dont have to go nuts training to succeed. Last year I began in late July and slowly got myself in Marathon shape week by week. Ive been lucky to never be injured in the run up to my 2 marathons and I think thats down to stopping when things start to get sore rather than power through. I felt the rest was key.

Last year I did short runs in mid week, 2 to 3 times a week of about 10k max and my LSRs at the weekend hail rain or shine. The most I did in training was 17 miles a month before the big day.

My advice, while it seems daunting, its all about taking it run by run. Setbacks will happen but stay strong and be smart rather than tough.

Good luck to all. Its a great feeling of accomplishment on the day.

chabsey

Murph_D wrote: »

Well it is a marathon improvers thread. For most of us, the biggest improvements come in the first few marathons, based simply on increased base mileage and the resulting endurance.

Assuming we train sensibly of course. Not sure about chabsey’s history and whether paces are appropriate or not, but Hanson plan itself (like any other I’ve seen) is very specific on this. You train based on results, not aspirations.

It’s such a simple principle, but one so often ignored.

Not sure I fully understand the idea behind training based on results vs aspirations.

So for example my previous and only other marathon came in at 3:38 and I got this with relatively little effort (in comparison to now I mean). From reviewing my training logs I was doing *maybe* three runs a week although this varied (downwards), no warm ups, no stretching, taking weeks off at a time - basically a shambles where any kind of plan was concerned. My legs hurt sometimes but in hindsight this was from lack of stretching. If I'm being 100% honest the run itself was not difficult and I felt I could have continued for another few KM without a problem. I'm not saying this to boast or show off but to highlight how I decided on my current plan.

Now my 5K and 10K and HM times have remained pretty much the same as they were when I last ran the marathon, I've never tried to improve them, just ran them as I found them and generally got PBs during events. With that in mind I thought it should be possible to knock 20 mins or so off my previous marathon time if I put the effort in.

I don't think that's unreasonable if a proper plan is put in place. However, if I enter my current 5 or 10K times into a finishing time calculator I get an estimated marathon finishing time of 3:31. I don't see that as realistic or frankly worth the effort I'm putting in now.

Again I'm not trying to be awkward or blasé about this and perhaps I've misunderstood the idea behind training based on results vs aspirations but I don't think I was being stupidly optimistic with my times.

On the other hand, who's injured now

**Timbuk2**

Last year I was training for the Dublin Half (my first).

Unfortunately I didn't accept the easy runs should be easy and LRs should have been LSRs! Ended up injured and couldn't run it which was heartbreaking.

I'm convinced now it was because I was training at crazy paces. I always felt strong, and it never occurred to me to slow down.

With the benefit of hindsight it makes sense - we're all putting our bodies through weekly mileages which are likely higher than we have ever experienced. If we add quick paces to that also, it's essentially two potential sources of overuse injury.

I'm still guilty of going too fast, especially on the 3m runs which seem so manageable! But making a concious effort to slow down - the mileage increases over the next few weeks seem quite terrifying!

skyblue46

yido1882 wrote: »

Hi there,

I'm new to this thread too. I've been reading through it recently and have got loads of great tips.



Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
10km - 44:11 (June 2018)
HM - 1hr 48 mins (March 2018)


Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?
No


How much training do you currently do ?

I'm now ruuning 4 times a week. I cycle 5 times a week(125km in total)



What do you want to achieve?

To complete the marathon, hopefully in a reasonable time!


How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

4/5 days a week. I'm following HH1 plan, I'm on the 8th week of the plan now



What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
Getting injured or sick before the marathon


Why are you running this marathon?
I wanted to try keep healthy and needed something to aim for to stay on track


The thing I'm struggling most with at the moment is what pace I'm supposed to be running at....

Sorry I missed this one. Just had a look at Strava and you won't be surprised to hear what I say....the pace you are supposed to be running at is significantly slower than you presently do I know I'm sounding like a broken record but it's for one simple reason....there is a right and wrong way to train. Someone can train the wrong way and still complete a marathon. On the other hand someone can train the right way which improves endurance, makes runs more enjoyable and reduces injury risk. You'll also run a better race than if you train badly. This is for everyone, not directed at you personally! :pac:

yido1882

skyblue46 wrote: »

Sorry I missed this one. Just had a look at Strava and you won't be surprised to hear what I say....the pace you are supposed to be running at is significantly slower than you presently do I know I'm sounding like a broken record but it's for one simple reason....there is a right and wrong way to train. Someone can train the wrong way and still complete a marathon. On the other hand someone can train the right way which improves endurance, makes runs more enjoyable and reduces injury risk. You'll also run a better race than if you train badly. This is for everyone, not directed at you personally! :pac:

I appreciate the advice thanks, that's why I'm here! I have started to slow the long runs down but I need to improve on that alright

The man in red and black

Want to say thanks to Skyblue46 for telling me to slow down! Was starting to tighten up last week(likely from combination of running 6 days a week far too fast and also doing this on hilly routes) and the advice to cop on and slow down came just in time. Went for 12mile LSR this evening after work after 8 miles yesterday morning. Really concentrated on slowing down and did about 9mins/mile yesterday for 8 and 9.25/mile this evening for the 12miles. A week ago before getting that advice I would have absolutely dogged myself through these runs at least 45-60seconds/mile faster and would likely be seriously injured tomorrow. Thanks again!

skyblue46

The man in red and black wrote: »

Want to say thanks to Skyblue46 for telling me to slow down! Was starting to tighten up last week(likely from combination of running 6 days a week far too fast and also doing this on hilly routes) and the advice to cop on and slow down came just in time. Went for 12mile LSR this evening after work after 8 miles yesterday morning. Really concentrated on slowing down and did about 9mins/mile yesterday for 8 and 9.25/mile this evening for the 12miles. A week ago before getting that advice I would have absolutely dogged myself through these runs at least 45-60seconds/mile faster and would likely be seriously injured tomorrow. Thanks again!

Hmmm...are you ready for the kicker? That's still not quite slow enough :pac: It still puts you doing most runs at in or about what I would consider a probable MP based on a 48 minute 10k. Where has the 3:20 dream time come from?

roosterman71

There's a lot of talk here about distances, pace, following set plans, etc. But very little about nutrition. As we up the mileage, we're going to burn more and more fuel. How do we go about replacing that in the best possible way?

I ask as over the first 4 weeks of the plan, I've only had 5 days where I did no activity at all. And since my 21k on Sunday, I'm feeling a bit drained. Now I know I've other things outside of running that are putting pressure and strain on, but if we just take the running, how should we fuel, and re-fuel for our training (not talking about during the run themselves)

skyblue46

roosterman71 wrote: »

There's a lot of talk here about distances, pace, following set plans, etc. But very little about nutrition. As we up the mileage, we're going to burn more and more fuel. How do we go about replacing that in the best possible way?

I ask as over the first 4 weeks of the plan, I've only had 5 days where I did no activity at all. And since my 21k on Sunday, I'm feeling a bit drained. Now I know I've other things outside of running that are putting pressure and strain on, but if we just take the running, how should we fuel, and re-fuel for our training (not talking about during the run themselves)

The 2 are linked. Again this is not aimed at you but for general consumption. Easy runs done properly won't use as many calories as ones done too fast. Pre run I never change my day to day routine and make sure to leave an hour between eating and running as a minimum. Before a long run have a banana or two, or porridge, or bagels with banana and peanut butter. After a run I always have some chocolate milk within 20 minutes. It's perfect for what the body needs. Within 2 hours have a meal with a high lean protein content...fish, chicken or turkey are my staples.