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DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread
Comments
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Not sure I fully understand the idea behind training based on results vs aspirations.
So for example my previous and only other marathon came in at 3:38 and I got this with relatively little effort (in comparison to now I mean). From reviewing my training logs I was doing *maybe* three runs a week although this varied (downwards), no warm ups, no stretching, taking weeks off at a time - basically a shambles where any kind of plan was concerned. My legs hurt sometimes but in hindsight this was from lack of stretching. If I'm being 100% honest the run itself was not difficult and I felt I could have continued for another few KM without a problem. I'm not saying this to boast or show off but to highlight how I decided on my current plan.
Now my 5K and 10K and HM times have remained pretty much the same as they were when I last ran the marathon, I've never tried to improve them, just ran them as I found them and generally got PBs during events. With that in mind I thought it should be possible to knock 20 mins or so off my previous marathon time if I put the effort in.
I don't think that's unreasonable if a proper plan is put in place. However, if I enter my current 5 or 10K times into a finishing time calculator I get an estimated marathon finishing time of 3:31. I don't see that as realistic or frankly worth the effort I'm putting in now.
Again I'm not trying to be awkward or blasé about this and perhaps I've misunderstood the idea behind training based on results vs aspirations but I don't think I was being stupidly optimistic with my times.
On the other hand, who's injured now
Apologies - I thought I was posting in a different thread (Marathon Improvers). But the principle still holds. There might be some merit to your thinking, but if your approach hasn’t led to improvements at shorter distances, perhaps that’s a red flag? The fact that you are nursing an injury is another. I got my first injury myself while training for the second marathon. Just didn’t have the required resilience for what I was trying to do.
If you cantered to a 3:38 first time out on little training you indeed would seem to have promise. But you won’t get there by flogging yourself. If you’re a 3:20 marathon runner you would likely be knocking out sub-21 5k and 43-min 10k without thinking about it. It’s very rare for a runner (at our level at least) to be relatively faster at the marathon distance. It’s possible of course that your shorter times are very soft if you haven’t raced in a long time. In which case, test yourself before settling on a MP.
Best of luck with it, and hope the injury clears up.0 -
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Morning all
Some have been professing their love for running recently
I have to admit I am not quite there yet, it is more love/hate currently
I am enjoying most of the training, especially having a plan and routine
I will quite happily plod around all the time doing long slow runs but I am afraid of the pace stuff
This is mainly because I am older and more out of shape than most but I can see my fitness improving and my weight dropping with the distance climbing so that is encouraging
But at some stage I am going to have to try and push the pace so I can get round in a decent time although it is comforting knowing I can plod my way through it if necessary
Fear of injury is probably what is holding me back the most but I will have to get over that
I do enjoy running at pace, when I was a kid I was quick, I guess my concern is heading out at pace and not being able to finish the chosen distance at that pace, I have probably never been fit enough to push myself properly
In saying all that, this morning's run went fine
TLDR
A NyOmnishambles ramble
Getting old and slow0 -
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NyOmnishambles wrote: »Morning all
Some have been professing their love for running recently
I have to admit I am not quite there yet, it is more love/hate currently
I am enjoying most of the training, especially having a plan and routine
I will quite happily plod around all the time doing long slow runs but I am afraid of the pace stuff
This is mainly because I am older and more out of shape than most but I can see my fitness improving and my weight dropping with the distance climbing so that is encouraging
But at some stage I am going to have to try and push the pace so I can get round in a decent time although it is comforting knowing I can plod my way through it if necessary
Fear of injury is probably what is holding me back the most but I will have to get over that
I do enjoy running at pace, when I was a kid I was quick, I guess my concern is heading out at pace and not being able to finish the chosen distance at that pace, I have probably never been fit enough to push myself properly
In saying all that, this morning's run went fine
TLDR
A NyOmnishambles ramble
Getting old and slow
Just wanted to respond to say you're not the only one who feels like this! I am enjoying the running a lot but mostly when it's relaxed and no pressure, whereas when it comes to racing I feel exactly like you do and panic about not being able for it. Stresses me out every time! (Possibly overthinking things...
)
Anyway I have no idea what age you are (nor does it matter, I don't think!) but I'd be very willing to bet you're getting quicker not slower! It certainly sounds like you're already making progress and getting something out of it. If we can learn to trust our bodies a bit more and not worry about not being up to the task we'll be doing great!
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Hope you were able to get back to sleep with a clear mind once you knew what kind run was waiting for you :P
Yes, got back to sleep eventually but my alarm wasn't set and I missed my early morning call!!
Am now faced with navigating my way around Dublin city centre at lunch time for today's run. Thankfully, the Phoenix Park is only a mile from where I work 0 -
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NyOmnishambles wrote: »Morning all
Some have been professing their love for running recently
I have to admit I am not quite there yet, it is more love/hate currently
I am enjoying most of the training, especially having a plan and routine
I will quite happily plod around all the time doing long slow runs but I am afraid of the pace stuff
This is mainly because I am older and more out of shape than most but I can see my fitness improving and my weight dropping with the distance climbing so that is encouraging
But at some stage I am going to have to try and push the pace so I can get round in a decent time although it is comforting knowing I can plod my way through it if necessary
Fear of injury is probably what is holding me back the most but I will have to get over that
I do enjoy running at pace, when I was a kid I was quick, I guess my concern is heading out at pace and not being able to finish the chosen distance at that pace, I have probably never been fit enough to push myself properly
In saying all that, this morning's run went fine
TLDR
A NyOmnishambles ramble
Getting old and slow
Try not to worry too much. If you aren’t enjoying the pace stuff then slow it down a small bit. You could always treat it as intervals in a way and slow to jog for a few minutes before picking up the pace again. Remember you should be training to your current fitness so pace shouldn’t be ‘too’ difficult. Also, you are just running this marathon for yourself and you do it at the time that suits you and at a pace you enjoy.0 -
Yes, got back to sleep eventually but my alarm wasn't set and I missed my early morning call!!
Am now faced with navigating my way around Dublin city centre at lunch time for today's run. Thankfully, the Phoenix Park is only a mile from where I work
Out along the river to Ringsend and then out the coast along Sandymount is a good one too without too many traffic lights to stop at, or too many people in the way.0 -
Out along the river to Ringsend and then out the coast along Sandymount is a good one too without too many traffic lights to stop at, or too many people in the way.
Yes, I've done that route a few times alright. Just thinking of the sprints towards the end. PP would be the best place for that! 0 -
I think your learning the hard way regarding keeping the easy pace easy, doing intervals this morning with a dodgey ankle wasn't the greatest of ideas. Not having a go, I was like that myself at the start hammering away each run and strained my calf 3 times in about 6 months. We'd similar times on Sunday, just looking at your Strava and not one of your runs have averaged 6min k's. Just to give you a bit of context, I averaged 4.30 per k on Sunday my run yesterday was 6.17.
It's not just you, were all at it. I wince when I see some of the "easy run" paces, we are only fooling ourselves for the sake of Strava. As the LSR's increases, we'll all end up on the physio table if we don't make the easy runs easy.
Future mentor in the making perhaps
whiskey_sour wrote: »
Thanks for the advice ariana and Sheep1978, I think I'll just do a normal LSR this week and forget about the race. Am disappointed as really wanted to see if the training is paying off but sure needs must! And I hadn't actually signed up yet so won't lose my registration money or anything.
I ran this morning for the first time since the LSR and my stomach was fine so definitely think it was just a bad week. I've always had stomach issues in general but usually it's very manageable, I just get flare ups from time to time. I've found a half marathon near me that's the same day as the Rock n Roll which a lot of people here seem to be doing so that might fit in well with the plan and isn't too far away....the only thing about it is I feel like if that's my last race before the actual marathon there's quite a big gap? Is who's doing the RnR instead of the Dublin half thinking of doing a 10k or something in between just to see where they're at?
I will say i only did 1 race last year in the run up. I did a 10m in August. I attempted a HM in Sept but i had a DNF (sick stomach funnily enough). I don't think races are crucial, there are lots of benefits of course but to be honest from August onward i wouldn't be advising a novice to race less than 10 miles. Your time in a 10k won't really tell you much, if anything it could confuse you :pac: If you do a really fast time you'll be questioning your planned marathon pace and possibly underestimate the the jump from 10k to marathon to your detriment which we wouldn't want to happen!roosterman71 wrote: »There's a lot of talk here about distances, pace, following set plans, etc. But very little about nutrition. As we up the mileage, we're going to burn more and more fuel. How do we go about replacing that in the best possible way?
I ask as over the first 4 weeks of the plan, I've only had 5 days where I did no activity at all. And since my 21k on Sunday, I'm feeling a bit drained. Now I know I've other things outside of running that are putting pressure and strain on, but if we just take the running, how should we fuel, and re-fuel for our training (not talking about during the run themselves)
After hard sessions including long runs i'd recommend something with carbs and protein fairly quickly, my go to is chocolate milk! Followed a while later (after a good stretch and a shower) by a good meal (or snack depending on the time of day) with lots of good quality protein (eggs, chicken, nuts).
Other than that overall you probably need a few extra calories but be careful to make sure they are good quality extra calories - of course we can't be saints all the time and we're all entitled to our guilty pleasures but quite a lot of people gain weight on their first marathon cycle because they over estimate the calorie requirement or they see the training as a license to eat junk :cool:
If you're feeling very drained though for a prolonged period it might be worth getting your bloods checked by your GP but as you mention other life stressors then this is probably not necessary. Take care and listen to you body, if you need a day off then take itIs the Novice plan session today not 6M at PMP with 5 x 100 strides. It's coloured purple in the chart
I know KG answered you already but just to remind everyone that the purple colouring is for the strides! Unless it's says 'pace' in the description it's an easy run! Enjoy 0 -
Argh, ive just woken up with tomorrow's run on my mind!!!
If anyone can answer this I'd be very grateful indeed....
Tomorrow's 6 mile run, yeah? I assume that those 6 miles should be done at PMP?
Back to bed........Easy with strides.Question asked at quarter to two in the morning, question answered three minutes later....now that's a supportive thread!I'll be at work from 7pm to 7am so any weirdos messaging in the middle of the night posts might well be responded to.
Just for the record, I was not expecting an immediate response! Just offloading some questions that I knew I would have forgotten about by the morning!!Ha ha Coogy, it’s ok. I was awake until at least 3:30 to the detriment of my 6am run!Hope you were able to get back to sleep with a clear mind once you knew what kind run was waiting for you :P Definitely no curfew for posting in the Novices thread this year....good to know :pac: 0 -
Wubble Wubble wrote: » Definitely no curfew for posting in the Novices thread this year....good to know :pac:
Ooooops caught out :pac:0 -
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Haven't done it yet, but plan to do them at the end
There are strides again this week for the Boards group. We discussed these previously but just to recap we recommend you do these near the end of your run on a flat section of road. They are about 100m or 20 seconds, accelerate for the first 1/3 to about 80% effort for the middle 1/3 and then decelerate back down. You want full recovery between strides, you should NOT feel wrecked finishing these, that is not the goal! Concentrate on keeping keeping good form - relax the shoulders!
Ok thanks, I didn't know whether I should be timing them too or just stop my watch at the end of the 6 miles.......... 0 -
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