DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

Kellygirl

whiskey_sour wrote: »

Hi Kellygirl and skyblue46, thanks for the advice! My worry about the boards plan is that the long runs increase very quickly for me! I haven't gone longer than 10k in over a year and I'm worried if I take on too much too soon that I'll get injured. I guess I still have a few weeks before I decide which to go with so can see how training goes until then....

I was wondering if it was that part alright. I think increase the distance in one run a week over the next while and let’s see how you are going then. You are right to be cautious.

Strawberry Swan

Hey guys, I would like to join ye on this journey, although I'm not a novice. Hope that's ok? I did one marathon before, DCM in 2010. It was great but I was a lot fitter and thinner back then! Will do my best to reverse those changes this year. For the past 8 years I've been trying to get back into running but never managing it for any length of time but I'm more settled now and healthy and ready to commit. I've managed to run consistently since January and built up my mileage gradually. I supported DCM last year and was so jealous of all the red faces going by I thought "I want to be one of them next year"

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Yes, but many years ago. Most of my pb's are out of date.

DCM 2010 in 4.15. It was very enjoyable and a memory I cherish.
Terenure 5 mile (today) - 45.44
3k - 15.22


Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No


How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I run 3 days per week, no more then 15 miles per week. One speed session, one steady run and one long run, 10 miles as of Friday. Cycle commute to work 3 days pw, only 3 miles each way. And 1 strength and conditioning gym class a week. Plan to do one more at home myself.


What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I guess anything under 4.30 would be good. I would love to beat my previous time but know that I probably don't have the mileage in me as I'm only getting back to running consistently this year.


How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
I hope to train 4 or maybe even 5 days a week. Not sure yet what plan to follow. I did Hal Higdon plan before which worked well

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
Getting injured again. I got Patellar tendinitis last year and had to stop running completely for 3 months.


Why are you running this marathon?
I love running long distance and this is a great goal to aim for. Give myself a challenge and something to work towards. I think it'll help me achieve smaller goals I have.

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

Just completed my first 10 mile run.
Great feeling!!!
Really feels like this is another milestone in the build up to the actual training schedule. Bring it on!!

Well done! Now a question from the sensible pace department.....how slow did you go?

ariana`

Wow great activity over the weekend while i was MIA :pac: Welcome Redzer27, whiskey_sour, MrsHappyfeet and Strawberry Swan! I hope i haven't missed anyone - apologies if i have

Redzer have you thought about which plan you will follow? I think the HH will suit you. Don't worry about giving up. This group is fantastic for accountability. Knowing i had to report to this group really got me through a few tough runs last year. When i wanted to quit i'd be thinking how can i justify it to everyone on boards... and well then it became easier to finish the tough run than come up with a good reason

Whiskysour, you are right the atmosphere is Dublin is amazing, it really will get you through, it's phenomenal. There is nothing in the world like it. Don't worry about injury, you are doing all the right things by doing some yoga/pilates. Keep a check on the pace of all your runs and keep the increases in mileage small and everything should be ok.

MrsHappyfeet, well done on taking the plunge. I'm a mum to 3 kids also so i know how busy that can be but it's also important to make some time for ourselves right Now would be a good time to introduce the 4th running day so you get used it before the plan starts, don't increase the distance of your other runs until you've done the 4 runs for a couple of weeks and keep the 4th run short - no more than 5k initially.

Strawberry swan 4:15 was a great time and that experience will stand to you even though it is a few years ago. You seem to be well on top of the training already too, a 10 mile long run is a great starting point and i love the mention of s&C as well

whiskey_sour wrote: »

Hi Kellygirl and skyblue46, thanks for the advice! My worry about the boards plan is that the long runs increase very quickly for me! I haven't gone longer than 10k in over a year and I'm worried if I take on too much too soon that I'll get injured. I guess I still have a few weeks before I decide which to go with so can see how training goes until then....

I think this is a good approach. Also you could start the Boards plan and if you're finding it too tough you could switch after a few weeks.

coogy wrote: »

Just completed my first 10 mile run.
Great feeling!!!
Really feels like this is another milestone in the build up to the actual training schedule. Bring it on!!

Wohoo well done! I hope you kept it easssssssy

Rossi7

Rossi they are good numbers you have there to indicate a Sub 4 is more than achievable. It'll be interesting to see how you go in Tallaght and Terenure to get a good picture of where you're at right now. The 5k time indicates lots of improvement is likely on your 5 mile and 10k times. Enjoy the races and even more so this thread!

Just to give you skyblue46 an update on my Tallaght and Terenure adventures over the last two weeks, knocked off 6 secs and 3.26 off both pb's. Disappointed with yesterdays 5 miler as I went off too conservative with the 40 pacers and should of really bit the bullet with the 35's. Lesson learned for the next one.
Will concentrate on those four sessions per week you advised me on and that will bring me up to the start of the marathon block. Might get try get a 10k race in before hand

skyblue46

Rossi7 wrote: »

Rossi they are good numbers you have there to indicate a Sub 4 is more than achievable. It'll be interesting to see how you go in Tallaght and Terenure to get a good picture of where you're at right now. The 5k time indicates lots of improvement is likely on your 5 mile and 10k times. Enjoy the races and even more so this thread!

Just to give you skyblue46 an update on my Tallaght and Terenure adventures over the last two weeks, knocked off 6 secs and 3.26 off both pb's. Disappointed with yesterdays 5 miler as I went off too conservative with the 40 pacers and should of really bit the bullet with the 35's. Lesson learned for the next one.
Will concentrate on those four sessions per week you advised me on and that will bring me up to the start of the marathon block. Might get try get a 10k race in before hand

Lesson learned! Yeah I saw both on Strava. The 5 mile surprised me alright as the 5k time suggests a 5 mile of 35:40-36:00 minutes. I'd be giving the pacers a miss as it helps you learn to regulate your own pace. For a 10k you should look at doing 4:30 per Km in a race and see how it goes.

That being said, never turn down a PB. It's a reward for the training and hard work you've put in.

Hobbyjogger

Just wanted to check in as it's been awhile, and to report that I too have tried the slowing down on easy runs from the advice here and can recommend it! I'm always worried about "losing speed" but I was 10 seconds off of a PB on a much hillier course in a 5k race this week after slowing down in training so thanks for the advice!

Also, looking forward to the medal reveal - I see Constance Markievicz is going to be the face of it this year #girlpower :-P

ariana`

Hobbyjogger wrote: »

Just wanted to check in as it's been awhile, and to report that I too have tried the slowing down on easy runs from the advice here and can recommend it! I'm always worried about "losing speed" but I was 10 seconds off of a PB on a much hillier course in a 5k race this week after slowing down in training so thanks for the advice!

Also, looking forward to the medal reveal - I see Constance Markievicz is going to be the face of it this year #girlpower :-P

Brilliant - thanks for the update and I'm delighted you are seeing the benefits of slowing down, this will really stand to you especially as the mileage increases and the cumulative fatigue sets in.

I'm dying to see the medal too

imknackered

I stupidly played football last wednesday for the first time in years, legs were shot for days afterwards and had to skip a training run. I was still feeling the effects at the Terenure 5mile yesterday. Ran a PB time but if i had been 100% i reckon it could have been better.

Tough day for it in Terenure for anyone else who did it, very warm day with a headwind on the slight uphill sections.

Have the streets of dublin 5k this weekend so my training will be an 6x800 interval session, 14k LSR midweek and then the race on sunday

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

Well done! Now a question from the sensible pace department.....how slow did you go?

Well, average pace was 7:37. I honestly tried to do a slower pace than my previous 8 mile run last week and I genuinely thought I was.
I think its going to take me a few more runs to become used to a slower pace.

coogy

ariana` wrote: »

Wow great activity over the weekend while i was MIA :pac: Welcome Redzer27, whiskey_sour, MrsHappyfeet and Strawberry Swan! I hope i haven't missed anyone - apologies if i have

Redzer have you thought about which plan you will follow? I think the HH will suit you. Don't worry about giving up. This group is fantastic for accountability. Knowing i had to report to this group really got me through a few tough runs last year. When i wanted to quit i'd be thinking how can i justify it to everyone on boards... and well then it became easier to finish the tough run than come up with a good reason

Whiskysour, you are right the atmosphere is Dublin is amazing, it really will get you through, it's phenomenal. There is nothing in the world like it. Don't worry about injury, you are doing all the right things by doing some yoga/pilates. Keep a check on the pace of all your runs and keep the increases in mileage small and everything should be ok.

MrsHappyfeet, well done on taking the plunge. I'm a mum to 3 kids also so i know how busy that can be but it's also important to make some time for ourselves right Now would be a good time to introduce the 4th running day so you get used it before the plan starts, don't increase the distance of your other runs until you've done the 4 runs for a couple of weeks and keep the 4th run short - no more than 5k initially.

Strawberry swan 4:15 was a great time and that experience will stand to you even though it is a few years ago. You seem to be well on top of the training already too, a 10 mile long run is a great starting point and i love the mention of s&C as well



I think this is a good approach. Also you could start the Boards plan and if you're finding it too tough you could switch after a few weeks.



Wohoo well done! I hope you kept it easssssssy

Trying my best!!ðŸ˜

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

Well, average pace was 7:37. I honestly tried to do a slower pace than my previous 8 mile run last week and I genuinely thought I was.
I think its going to take me a few more runs to become used to a slower pace.

Dare I ask what time you think you could run a 10 mile race? :eek:

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

Dare I ask what time you think you could run a 10 mile race? :eek:

I couldnt tell you but the more I run, the more realistic my sub 4 goal is becoming.
Feeling really confident of getting a good time but not getting carried away though.

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

I couldnt tell you but the more I run, the more realistic my sub 4 goal is becoming.
Feeling really confident of getting a good time but not getting carried away though.

IF you start training sensibly you will not be concerned with 4 hours but will have loftier targets. However you really have to get a grip on easy running. Lads who run 62 min 10 mile races, low 1:20 HM or 3 hr approx marathons rarely run below 8 minute miles for easy runs.

Swashbuckler

coogy wrote:

Well, average pace was 7:37. I honestly tried to do a slower pace than my previous 8 mile run last week and I genuinely thought I was. I think its going to take me a few more runs to become used to a slower pace.

I feel the need to give you some advice. Slow it way way down. My easy and long runs are never any quicker than 8 minutes per mile pace. It's a common enough mistake to make. Slow riggggght down!

Redzer27

Thanks Ariana I’ve done a few 10k I am going to follow the Hh program and have booked 3 more 10ks I’m booked for a 10 mile and a half so the intentions are all positive

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

IF you start training sensibly you will not be concerned with 4 hours but will have loftier targets. However you really have to get a grip on easy running. Lads who run 62 min 10 mile races, low 1:20 HM or 3 hr approx marathons rarely run below 8 minute miles for easy runs.

Thanks skyblue46. The penny is definitely beginning to drop.......
Will continue to post updates!

Safiri

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I feel the need to give you some advice. Slow it way way down. My easy and long runs are never any quicker than 8 minutes per mile pace. It's a common enough mistake to make. Slow riggggght down!

+1 to all the above. Swashbuckler has a 1:21 half marathon best and those are the paces he runs for easy. I ran 1:25 for the half last year and would rarely crack 8:20 pace on an easy run, the vast majority were in the 8:30-8:45 range. There's an old adage from coaches about the easy run that says you should be embarrassed to be seen running at easy pace.

I can say one thing though coogy, I see some potential in you to go much faster than your 4 hour target come raceday. But that comes with a caveat, that caveat is getting the basics down and running within yourself in training. You do that and who knows how fast you will be in 5 months time.

Lazare

Last year (and I'm sure every year) in the beginning of the thread and up to plans starting it was drummed into us the vital importance of easy running and slowing down.

It took a bit for it to sink in with me, and others.

It sounds counterproductive. It's far from it.

One reason is injury avoidance but the most important reason by far is the development of a strong aerobic engine.

The marathon is a hugely rewarding race, you will be swimming with endorphins for weeks afterwards, but it is a tough endurance event. You endure it by developing strong lungs that flood blood with oxygen and a strong heart muscle to efficiently pump that to your legs.

Running slow and easy (aerobic exercise) works this system and strengthens it. You slow things right down so you can withstand more time running and working it and minimal time recovering.

When you cross the threshold into anaerobic excersise you are no longer building that engine. That's fine for a weekly session, or if you were training for the mile. If you want to run 26.2 however you need to run slow and easy. Almost all of the time.

I followed the boards plan last year and from the time it started in late June until almost December other than strides and a handful of hill sprints I never once ran faster than marathon pace. Even that took up approx 10% of running. Everything else was slow and easy.

You've got to trust this.

If you think you're running slow enough, slow down.

coogy

Lazare wrote: »

Last year (and I'm sure every year) in the beginning of the thread and up to plans starting it was drummed into us the vital importance of easy running and slowing down.

It took a bit for it to sink in with me, and others.

It sounds counterproductive. It's far from it.

One reason is injury avoidance but the most important reason by far is the development of a strong aerobic engine.

The marathon is a hugely rewarding race, you will be swimming with endorphins for weeks afterwards, but it is a tough endurance event. You endure it by developing strong lungs that flood blood with oxygen and a strong heart muscle to efficiently pump that to your legs.

Running slow and easy (aerobic exercise) works this system and strengthens it. You slow things right down so you can withstand more time running and working it and minimal time recovering.

When you cross the threshold into anaerobic excersise you are no longer building that engine. That's fine for a weekly session, or if you were training for the mile. If you want to run 26.2 however you need to run slow and easy. Almost all of the time.

I followed the boards plan last year and from the time it started in late June until almost December other than strides and a handful of hill sprints I never once ran faster than marathon pace. Even that took up approx 10% of running. Everything else was slow and easy.

You've got to trust this.

If you think you're running slow enough, slow down.

Thank you all so much for this advice! It all makes so much sense.
I think it might be easier for me to start off at a slower pace for the shorter distances and work my way up bit by bit for the longer runs.
Onwards and upwards! ðŸ˜

Swashbuckler

coogy wrote:

Thank you all so much for this advice! It all makes so much sense. I think it might be easier for me to start off at a slower pace for the shorter distances and work my way up bit by bit for the longer runs. Onwards and upwards! ðŸ˜

It's the single best piece of advice I've seen on the DCM Novices threads and also the most counter intuitive. Run slower to run faster. Weird isn't it. Haha. Good luck with the training.

ariana`

Its great to see so many knowledgeable and experienced runners weighing in here with the same message which applies to ALL novices (apologies coogy if you feel we're ganging up on you :P). This really really can't be said enough but slow is the best way to get fast, you will reap the rewards if you stick with it, additionally you will massively increase your chances of reaching the start (and finish ) line of your first marathon (whoop whoop) injury free and ready for the challenge ahead.

Redzer27 wrote: »

Thanks Ariana I’ve done a few 10k I am going to follow the Hh program and have booked 3 more 10ks I’m booked for a 10 mile and a half so the intentions are all positive

Wow exciting times ahead! Not wanting to put a damper on your enthusiasm but races are a big effort and i wouldn't recommend doing too many close together - depending on how they fall you may be best to treat some of them as training runs?

My last note for today is for everyone - don't be afraid to start weighing in on each other's posts! The novices are the heart and soul of this group, the rest of us are just along for the ride (trying to relive a bit of our amazing time as novices :P). You are all runners, don't be afraid to advice each other or give each a slap on the back or a kick in the .... if you think it's required

ahnoyouregrand

I am another one who is struggling with running slow. I just find that I have just one gear (slow!). However, my PMP will be around 10.10 meaning i should be running my lsr at 11.10? I tried this last week for my 10 mile lsr but by the end was running way too fast and finished up doing 10 miles @ 9.34. I am petrified of getting injured so I realise how important it is for me to slow down...

Baby75

ahnoyouregrand wrote: »

I am another one who is struggling with running slow. I just find that I have just one gear (slow!). However, my PMP will be around 10.10 meaning i should be running my lsr at 11.10? I tried this last week for my 10 mile lsr but by the end was running way too fast and finished up doing 10 miles @ 9.34. I am petrified of getting injured so I realise how important it is for me to slow down...

keep at it, you will master it and once you do you will enjoy it and reap the many benefits we all struggled when we first started last year. It was a common discussion in the early days

skyblue46

ahnoyouregrand wrote: »

I am another one who is struggling with running slow. I just find that I have just one gear (slow!). However, my PMP will be around 10.10 meaning i should be running my lsr at 11.10? I tried this last week for my 10 mile lsr but by the end was running way too fast and finished up doing 10 miles @ 9.34. I am petrified of getting injured so I realise how important it is for me to slow down...

The injury thing is a secondary point. As Lazare explained earlier it's all about training the body to do what will be asked of it ie. To run for 3/4/5/6 hours. Training it to run for 1 or 2 hours at a fast pace won't help doing the full distance. In all sports training is specific to your target. Running is no different. 100 metre training is different to mile training, which is different to 5k etc. The marathon requires lots and lots and lots of slow stuff.

ChippyRun

Lazare wrote: »

Last year (and I'm sure every year) in the beginning of the thread and up to plans starting it was drummed into us the vital importance of easy running and slowing down.

It took a bit for it to sink in with me, and others.

It sounds counterproductive. It's far from it.

One reason is injury avoidance but the most important reason by far is the development of a strong aerobic engine.

The marathon is a hugely rewarding race, you will be swimming with endorphins for weeks afterwards, but it is a tough endurance event. You endure it by developing strong lungs that flood blood with oxygen and a strong heart muscle to efficiently pump that to your legs.

Running slow and easy (aerobic exercise) works this system and strengthens it. You slow things right down so you can withstand more time running and working it and minimal time recovering.

When you cross the threshold into anaerobic excersise you are no longer building that engine. That's fine for a weekly session, or if you were training for the mile. If you want to run 26.2 however you need to run slow and easy. Almost all of the time.

I followed the boards plan last year and from the time it started in late June until almost December other than strides and a handful of hill sprints I never once ran faster than marathon pace. Even that took up approx 10% of running. Everything else was slow and easy.

You've got to trust this.

If you think you're running slow enough, slow down.

Thanks for this great advice. Personally I am taking to the slow running like a duck to water.! Not that I was particularly fast in the first place. But having had a few injuries (Knee, shin splints) over the last couple of years I can already feel the benefits of slowing it right down. With the slower pace the training plan now seem more do-able, thanks again.

Griff75

Going to bite the bullet and sign up for this too! Time is an issue for me as I’m self employed with a young family so apologies in advance if I don’t update much!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Have done two marathons in 2012 and 2013. PB is 4.05 but more recent race times are
Raheny 5 mile 2018 37.24
10 mile 2017 1.22
10k 2017 47.28

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I run 3 days a week at the moment and strength train at lunchtime around 4 times a week. Longest run since last year is 12k but plan to increase that slowly.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Will aim for sub 4 but enjoying the day is a priority too.

How many days a week can you train?
4-5 although 2 of those would need to be on a treadmill at lunchtime so time is limited.

And what plan do you intend to follow?
Willing to be guided on this. Have done HH in the past.

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
Injury or a bad day on the day itself

Why are you running this marathon?
I will be asking myself that question from now until the finish line!

Joeseph Balls

I slow my run down, then look at my pace and I'm back at 5/10k pace without realising.
Just takes time to change the pace I suppose?
Trying to be more conscious of it

Kellygirl

If you are listening to music and having trouble slowing down maybe get rid of the music so you can concentrate on the slow pace.

Remember on Marathon day you will have to pace yourself so it’s good to learn from the outset how to set out and stick at certain paces. You will be running at a pace that feels slow and you will have to stick at that for a good while to conserve energy for the end. Be good to get used to it now.

Rossi7

Hi guys, I'm planning on doing my LSR tonight and I was wondering having done all my training so far in k's would I be best to change over my garmin to miles now and get use to pacing myself in miles rather than k's
Also skyblue46, what pace should I look to do my LSR tonight per k, sorry to ask you but I know you've seen my training on Strava. Looking to do 16k very slow