DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

skyblue46

bucketybuck wrote: »

Unless I am missing something, isn't a 4 hr marathon pace 5.30 min/km?

Close enough...but he did say he had changed his target to 5 min/km which would be about 3:33 target time.

happyfriday74

Applegirl26 wrote: »

Good luck! You'll be fine. Let us know how you got on ðŸ‘

Actually had a good one. Left at ten and rain was dropping off. Went to dun laughaire and pegged it along coast all the way to greystones to the in laws for Sunday dinner and wifey had a spare change of cloths waiting for me.

Sore but enjoying a post run recovery drink in the form of an ice cold bottle of tiger. Forgot my bandaids though and left nipple was pumping blood from chaff and got a few concerned looks from passers bye from all the blood on my my running top.

Still feel chuffed though!

Applegirl26

happyfriday74 wrote: »

Actually had a good one. Left at ten and rain was dropping off. Went to dun laughaire and pegged it along coast all the way to greystones to the in laws for Sunday dinner and wifey had a spare change of cloths waiting for me.

Sore but enjoying a post run recovery drink in the form of an ice cold bottle of tiger. Forgot my bandaids though and left nipple was pumping blood from chaff and got a few concerned looks from passers bye from all the blood on my my running top.

Still feel chuffed though!

Well done!!!! "pegged it" Ha,ha
Enjoy the beers, sounds like you earned them ðŸ‘

coogy

Hey folks, hoping someone can advise me on a training related issue?

Apart from week 1 of the schedule, I have not done any running on Mondays or Tuesdays and have used them as rest days (although I do still cycle commute to work).

Do you think it would be wise at this stage to keep things as they are? I was considering introducing a 3 mile easy run on one of those days but I'm worried about 'upsetting the applecart', if you like. I'm wondering has the decision to run five days rather than six benefitted me up to now and if I should just leave things as they stand?

Any thoughts?

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

Hey folks, hoping someone can advise me on a training related issue?

Apart from week 1 of the schedule, I have not done any running on Mondays or Tuesdays and have used them as rest days (although I do still cycle commute to work).

Do you think it would be wise at this stage to keep things as they are? I was considering introducing a 3 mile easy run on one of those days but I'm worried about 'upsetting the applecart', if you like. I'm wondering has the decision to run five days rather than six benefitted me up to now and if I should just leave things as they stand?

Any thoughts?

The rule to follow when upping training is to do it gradually. If you have been running for 5 days a week for a decent period of time there should be no problem in increasing it to 6. Just make sure that it is a short run at a VERY easy pace initially which is what you seem to have in mind.

As for whether it benefits you or not in the short term...you'd have to suck it and see. If you feel after trying it that it puts you under pressure physically, in a work sense or in a home life balance situation then just knock it back to 5.

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

The rule to follow when upping training is to do it gradually. If you have been running for 5 days a week for a decent period of time there should be no problem in increasing it to 6. Just make sure that it is a short run at a VERY easy pace initially which is what you seem to have in mind.

As for whether it benefits you or not in the short term...you'd have to suck it and see. If you feel after trying it that it puts you under pressure physically, in a work sense or in a home life balance situation then just knock it back to 5.

Thanks ariana, yeah I figured as much. Shouldn't be too much of a problem fitting in another short easy run ("Eh, just popping out for some milk!!")

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

Thanks ariana, yeah I figured as much. Shouldn't be too much of a problem fitting in another short easy run ("Eh, just popping out for some milk!!")

Ariana??? I know it was strange for me to even consider home life but was it that strange??? Hahahaha

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

Ariana??? I know it was strange for me to even consider home life but was it that strange??? Hahahaha

Haha, sorry S!!!.....:roll eyes:

It's all this running, see....

ariana`

Coogy solid advice from Skyblue as always. I'm in a similar position myself, I've been running 5 days for most of this year and more recently moving towards 6 days. What seems to work for me for now is an 11 day fortnight so alternating a 6 day with 5 day week, just putting it out there as an approach to build up to 6 days more gradually.

skyblue46 wrote: »

Ariana??? I know it was strange for me to even consider home life but was it that strange??? Hahahaha

LOL, we're uncovering hidden depths to you all the time S

aloooof

racersedge wrote: »

When I compare that to what I did in Mullingar back in March, that is an improvement of eight minutes.

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

My only previous HM was a disaster at the start of July, blew up on a roasting hot afternoon and walked home in 2:09.

Crossed the line in 1 hour 54 mins, which I was delighted with.

Some unbelievably good PB's being set there, in relatively short spaces of time!

aloooof

Hoping for some advice myself as well, if anyone has any input it'd be much appreciated.

I've recently moved house so that my run into work is now mostly downhill, so obviously the run home from work is mostly uphill. As well as this, the route is around 4.4 miles.

For the 4m Easy runs / 4m with 5x strides, would it be ok to run the 4.4m instead? I'm also considering alternating runs home / runs to work to try balance out the effort with the hills, but any suggestions on that very welcome!

Kellygirl

aloooof wrote: »

Hoping for some advice myself as well, if anyone has any input it'd be much appreciated.

I've recently moved house so that my run into work is now mostly downhill, so obviously the run home from work is mostly uphill. As well as this, the route is around 4.4 miles.

For the 4m Easy runs / 4m with 5x strides, would it be ok to run the 4.4m instead? I'm also considering alternating runs home / runs to work to try balance out the effort with the hills, but any suggestions on that very welcome!

Do you mean 4.4 miles with strides?

Just watch the hills depending on how steep they are. Running downhill can feel like a relief at the time but can do more damage than running uphill so think about your technique there. You don’t want to be running so fast that you are pounding but you don’t want to be putting the breaks on all the time either. I think just introduce the route slowly for yourself assuming it is fairly steep and think about what days you do it. All uphill the day before a long run might be fairly tiring for example.

Mr. Guappa

aloooof wrote: »

Hoping for some advice myself as well, if anyone has any input it'd be much appreciated.

I've recently moved house so that my run into work is now mostly downhill, so obviously the run home from work is mostly uphill. As well as this, the route is around 4.4 miles.

For the 4m Easy runs / 4m with 5x strides, would it be ok to run the 4.4m instead? I'm also considering alternating runs home / runs to work to try balance out the effort with the hills, but any suggestions on that very welcome!

A brisk walk for a couple of hundred metres to start and finish would leave you with 4 miles to run. I generally walk a little at the start and end of my runs, helps to loosen me out I find.

aloooof

Kellygirl wrote: »

Do you mean 4.4 miles with strides?

Just watch the hills depending on how steep they are. Running downhill can feel like a relief at the time but can do more damage than running uphill so think about your technique there. You don’t want to be running so fast that you are pounding but you don’t want to be putting the breaks on all the time either. I think just introduce the route slowly for yourself assuming it is fairly steep and think about what days you do it. All uphill the day before a long run might be fairly tiring for example.

Ya, for both the 4m Easy runs and 4M with strides, I was thinking of replacing them with 4.4m, as that gets me door to door. Thanks for the tips with the hills! Didn't realise downhill could be that bad as well, so will keep the technique in mind for these sections.

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

A brisk walk for a couple of hundred metres to start and finish would leave you with 4 miles to run. I generally walk a little at the start and end of my runs, helps to loosen me out I find.

Thanks, I think I'll go with this. The new route has much more stop/starting towards the end of it with traffic lights as well, so I could just talk that section to save the hassle of it.

Kellygirl

aloooof wrote: »

Ya, for both the 4m Easy runs and 4M with strides, I was thinking of replacing them with 4.4m, as that gets me door to door. Thanks for the tips with the hills! Didn't realise downhill could be that bad as well, so will keep the technique in mind for these sections.



Thanks, I think I'll go with this. The new route has much more stop/starting towards the end of it with traffic lights as well, so I could just talk that section to save the hassle of it.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the extra .4 of a mile.

Yes, downhills can do damage if you aren’t careful. I was more sore after the half in Killarney recently which had 3 miles of steep downhill than the full in Cork.

skyblue46

Kellygirl wrote: »

Do you mean 4.4 miles with strides?

Just watch the hills depending on how steep they are. Running downhill can feel like a relief at the time but can do more damage than running uphill so think about your technique there. You don’t want to be running so fast that you are pounding but you don’t want to be putting the breaks on all the time either. I think just introduce the route slowly for yourself assuming it is fairly steep and think about what days you do it. All uphill the day before a long run might be fairly tiring for example.

As Kellygirl said don't worry about an extra half mile each way. It won't hurt.

Knowing the roads you now run very well rest assured they are not the type of hills to wreck the quads running down them. It's a gradual incline/descent all the way. There are quite a few boardsies run that area very regularly.

coogy

ariana` wrote: »

Coogy solid advice from Skyblue as always. I'm in a similar position myself, I've been running 5 days for most of this year and more recently moving towards 6 days. What seems to work for me for now is an 11 day fortnight so alternating a 6 day with 5 day week, just putting it out there as an approach to build up to 6 days more gradually.

Thanks Ariana (it IS ariana, isn't it?) :P

I think that's a good idea. Five days a week has been very manageable up to now and I know an extra day every other week won't be too strenuous. Feels about the right time too.

aloooof

Kellygirl wrote: »

I wouldn’t worry too much about the extra .4 of a mile.

Yes, downhills can do damage if you aren’t careful. I was more sore after the half in Killarney recently which had 3 miles of steep downhill than the full in Cork.

skyblue46 wrote: »

As Kellygirl said don't worry about an extra half mile each way. It won't hurt.

Knowing the roads you now run very well rest assured they are not the type of hills to wreck the quads running down them. It's a gradual incline/descent all the way. There are quite a few boardsies run that area very regularly.

Great stuff so, cheers both!

Baby75

braynewbie wrote: »

Hi Baby, can I ask what heel drop were you told to get for the Achilles issue? I have Achilles troubles too.......thanks

anything above 10mm my current runners are a 12mm come over to my log for more info and chats about it! I am suffering nearly 6 months I do well and then get a setback and now I am out of DCM I will be there as cheer squad:) but if you go a shop like Run logic or similar and explain to them they will advise on runners.
I was wearing Hoka One One which I loved which are 5mm luckily I had a heel lift in them but it still caught up with me.

smashiner wrote: »

Lots and lots of stretching and foam rollering on the calves and glutes was the only thing that helped me with my Achilles strain (almost gone now thank God). Tennis ball on the arches/soles of the feet was recommended by the Mentors and this has helped me too.

I am the worlds worst stretcher, I laughed at a running quote I read the other day that said 'You know that you are a runner when you can run up hills but you can't touch your toes'..... that is so me, my physio does be shocked at how knotted up I get myself sometimes

Off to see him tomorrow afternoon for my 3 monthly NCT to get all ironed out for my LSR at the weekend! The joys of long distance running....

Yep, my calfs got very tight with it, keeping them nice and lose really helps I swear by my little ball to roll out my feet! but you have to do it everyday feet upwards and regular workovers with a physio to keep it all good did your physio give you any rehab exercises to do for it!

The man in red and black

Missed a run at the weekend. Knew I was going to be busy all weekend so pushed my rest day to Sunday to go to the Pope. Planned on going out for dinner Friday night with the family and having 4-5 pints for my 30th then get up in the morning to run 7 miles and finish with a park run to make it as close to a 10mile race as I could get this weekend. Finished dinner, family suggested one drink at the bar...walked in and all the old gang from college there and lads from home to surprise me...a heap of pints + jaegar followed and with people staying around the next day couldn't get away for 2 hours to get the run done.

Disappointed to miss the run but had a great weekend and it couldn't be helped. Got back on the horse today with 6 miles and back on the plan now. Only the second one I've missed in 7 weeks of 6 days a week. (The last one being a 6 miler).

Have some 20mile runs coming up in September and October that fall the same weekend as a stag and a wedding but nothing else to do only suck them up and get them done. Lucozade sport IV :P

Helenasca

I've put my most recent race times into the mc millan calculator. And I thought I was running at MP but with the race goal calculator it gives my 10k time at 6.05/km but then pushes my marathon time out to 6.46/km. I'm a bit confused. Is that just what it reckons you'll be doing on yer own it obviously doesn't take into account running with a pacer. It's knocked my marathon time back by 16/17 minutes.

Also does yer body just get used to running a slower pace?? I've done better 10k times in the past and my half last year was a better time then this year. But I just don't feel like I have that in me.

skyblue46

Helenasca wrote: »

I've put my most recent race times into the mc millan calculator. And I thought I was running at MP but with the race goal calculator it gives my 10k time at 6.05/km but then pushes my marathon time out to 6.46/km. I'm a bit confused. Is that just what it reckons you'll be doing on yer own it obviously doesn't take into account running with a pacer. It's knocked my marathon time back by 16/17 minutes.

Give me some details and we'll try to explain what might be going on. What was your 10k race time. Was it everything you could give it ? What marathon time are you hoping for and what did McMillan predict for you based on the 10k race?

skyblue46

Helenasca wrote: »

I've put my most recent race times into the mc millan calculator. And I thought I was running at MP but with the race goal calculator it gives my 10k time at 6.05/km but then pushes my marathon time out to 6.46/km. I'm a bit confused. Is that just what it reckons you'll be doing on yer own it obviously doesn't take into account running with a pacer. It's knocked my marathon time back by 16/17 minutes.

Also does yer body just get used to running a slower pace?? I've done better 10k times in the past and my half last year was a better time then this year. But I just don't feel like I have that in me.

To answer the edit! You are training for a marathon which leaves the body fatigued and dulls speed somewhat. You won't see the best results of your training until after a taper. It's not a case of the body settling at lower paces, maybe it's the mind.

Helenasca

So my 10km was 1 hr 1 min which is 6.05/km but the further the distance the mc millan calculator makes my /km time slower so brings my marathon pace to 6.46/km which is a 4hr 46 marathon time. Or if I put in my 16k time from last nite which was 6.26/km (which is closer to my expected PMP) it gives me a marathon pace of 6.51/km and a marathon time of 4 hrs 48.

Both 10k time and 16k were full throttle but as I said 16k time would be more PMP. I was aiming for a 4.5 hr marathon.

TIA

skyblue46

Ah ok. The race time predictor takes into account a fall off in pace the longer the distance. This is something that happens us all, even the best in the world. The predicted times for marathon distance are normally the most difficult to achieve. To me they look like a pretty reasonable guesstimate. You say that you had faster race times in the past. I take it that it was those times that led to the target of a 4:30 marathon?

Helenasca

skyblue46 wrote:

Ah ok. The race time predictor takes into account a fall off in pace the longer the distance. This is something that happens us all, even the best in the world. The predicted times for marathon distance are normally the most difficult to achieve. To me they look like a pretty reasonable guesstimate. You say that you had faster race times in the past. I take it that it was those times that led to the target of a 4:30 marathon?

My half marathon time last year was 2 hrs 6 mins. 10k would be 55 mins. And 5k about 27 mins.

skyblue46

Those times would make 4:30 a reasonable target alright. So the big question is why the drop off in your 10k time. Any ideas? Do you feel more tired in general. Are you training more or less than you were last year?

Helenasca

skyblue46 wrote:

Those times would make 4:30 a reasonable target alright. So the big question is why the drop off in your 10k time. Any ideas? Do you feel more tired in general. Are you training more or less than you were last year?

Well definitely running more than last year, I would have had two short runs 6 km ish and a lsr with max distance reached of 21km. And that would have only been May to mid Jul last Yr compared to May to now and beyond this year. I just don't feel like I have more in my legs if that makes sense.

OOnegative

Helenasca wrote: »

So my 10km was 1 hr 1 min which is 6.05/km but the further the distance the mc millan calculator makes my /km time slower so brings my marathon pace to 6.46/km which is a 4hr 46 marathon time. Or if I put in my 16k time from last nite which was 6.26/km (which is closer to my expected PMP) it gives me a marathon pace of 6.51/km and a marathon time of 4 hrs 48.

Both 10k time and 16k were full throttle but as I said 16k time would be more PMP. I was aiming for a 4.5 hr marathon.

TIA

I would add that if you are full throttle at 6.26km for 16k its not your PMP as you wouldn’t be able to sustain that for another 26km in the marathon.

Edit: i’m defining full throttle as you had nothing left by runs end.

skyblue46

Helenasca wrote: »

Well definitely running more than last year, I would have had two short runs 6 km ish and a lsr with max distance reached of 21km. And that would have only been May to mid Jul last Yr compared to May to now and beyond this year. I just don't feel like I have more in my legs if that makes sense.

It makes total sense. Firstly am I right in thinking that your 16k was a solo training run? I'd tend to only use race times in a predictor as we tend to be able to extract more from ourselves in a race than we will on the hardest session we put ourselves through.

The feeling of not having more in the legs could be easily explained too. Having a look through your Strava indicates that with the exception of your long runs you do all your runs faster than PMP and many of them at about (or slightly faster than) your HMP. To me this is something that would leave you with dead legs. The PMP runs are meant to be your fastest runs, all the rest should be easy.