DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

Helenasca

skyblue46 wrote:

It makes total sense. Firstly am I right in thinking that your 16k was a solo training run? I'd tend to only use race times in a predictor as we tend to be able to extract more from ourselves in a race than we will on the hardest session we put ourselves through.

skyblue46 wrote:

The feeling of not having more in the legs could be easily explained too. Having a look through your Strava indicates that with the exception of your long runs you do all your runs faster than PMP and many of them at about (or slightly faster than) your HMP. To me this is something that would leave you with dead legs. The PMP runs are meant to be your fastest runs, all the rest should be easy.

Yes the 16k was a solo run. And prob yes I'd push myself that little bit more in a race.

OK, so I've to really slow down my easy runs. I'll def give that ago over the next couple of runs and see how I fair out. I was feeling so disheartened. I know it's my first marathon and I shouldn't be putting pressure on myself but that's just me and I tend to push myself and as friends have said in stubborn enough for it. Lol.

Thank you so much for answering my queries skyblue.

skyblue46

Helenasca wrote: »

Yes the 16k was a solo run. And prob yes I'd push myself that little bit more in a race.

OK, so I've to really slow down my easy runs. I'll def give that ago over the next couple of runs and see how I fair out. I was feeling so disheartened. I know it's my first marathon and I shouldn't be putting pressure on myself but that's just me and I tend to push myself and as friends have said in stubborn enough for it. Lol.

Thank you so much for answering my queries skyblue.

Don't be disheartened. As was said before on here the big thing is to get around safely. Let times look after themselves and plan them closer to the day itself. Remember to train to current fitness. Get your easy pace based on your 10k race, put it in the training paces calculator and go with that. The PMP runs will be tough, the long run tough because of the distances ...make every other run a sweat free zone, a nice gentle meander through Galway...

healy1835

I know a good few on here ran the South Dublin 10k in the Race Series, what sort of fit are this years t shirts?

gypsylee

healy1835 wrote: »

I know a good few on here ran the South Dublin 10k in the Race Series, what sort of fit are this years t shirts?

I am a women's size 12-14 and I usually get a medium which is slightly baggy. The 10k one was a medium and fits perfectly (not baggy) so slightly smaller sizing than usual I would say.

smeal

skyblue46 wrote: »

It makes total sense. Firstly am I right in thinking that your 16k was a solo training run? I'd tend to only use race times in a predictor as we tend to be able to extract more from ourselves in a race than we will on the hardest session we put ourselves through.

The feeling of not having more in the legs could be easily explained too. Having a look through your Strava indicates that with the exception of your long runs you do all your runs faster than PMP and many of them at about (or slightly faster than) your HMP. To me this is something that would leave you with dead legs. The PMP runs are meant to be your fastest runs, all the rest should be easy.

This!

I think my PB 10k race is 54 something. Last night I trained with one of the faster people in my group. For him it was a recovery run but for me I wanted to try and really push myself as I was feeling good.

It was hilly and we were sitting in and around the 8.50-9.20 minute miles (I don't actually own a watch but occasionally he would let me know what his Garmin was saying). One of the miles was around the 10minutes becasue there was a Mount Everest look a like to conquer. Anyways I was happy with my steady pace and felt I was definitely going to come in faster than any of my races.... 56.09!!!! :mad:

Woke up this morning with a tickly throat and a headache so throwing the Lemsips into me. Was planning a gym session this evening but I think I will listen to my body and have a rest today.

Also I got to 14 miles in my LSR on Saturday in a time of 2.20. My new orthotic in soles blistered the hell out of my foot so I ripped them out at mile 8. Tried a gel properly for the first time also and it did give me the boost I needed at mile 9.. Glad I'm over the 14 mile hurdle. Planning 16 this weekend and then mini-taper the weekend after for the Roscommon Half

Happy running folks!

brownbinman

Got first run in few weeks done at weekend, 10m before pope came so Royal Canal was empty. Felt really good up until the 9m mark when was really tough!

Doing the Frank Duffy 10m this weekend so aiming for 12m in total.

Question is, I think I'll be ok but would adding 2m a weekend be madness?

Personally I think I'll live with it. I think I'll get to the 20m mark before the DCM and hope for the best on the day

ariana`

brownbinman wrote: »

Got first run in few weeks done at weekend, 10m before pope came so Royal Canal was empty. Felt really good up until the 9m mark when was really tough!

Doing the Frank Duffy 10m this weekend so aiming for 12m in total.

Question is, I think I'll be ok but would adding 2m a weekend be madness?

Personally I think I'll live with it. I think I'll get to the 20m mark before the DCM and hope for the best on the day

I wouldn't worry about finding the last mile of the 10m tough - quite often the last mile is tough whatever distance you do, you finished it which is great

Are you planning on doing the Race Series HM? If not, I suggest you follow the HHN1 Plan for the remaining weeks with the exception of slotting in 14m on Week 11 (instead of the Planned 16m), and 16m on Week 13 (instead of the race series HM).

If you plan to line up the race series half then i suggest you treat it as a long run and tag on enough at either end to bring it to 16m.

This will allow for some step back weeks as well as increasing the mileage to the desired 20m.

brownbinman

ariana` wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about finding the last mile of the 10m tough - quite often the last mile is tough whatever distance you do, you finished it which is great

Are you planning on doing the Race Series HM? If not, I suggest you follow the HHN1 Plan for the remaining weeks with the exception of slotting in 14m on Week 11 (instead of the Planned 16m), and 16m on Week 13 (instead of the race series HM).

If you plan to line up the race series half then i suggest you treat it as a long run and tag on enough at either end to bring it to 16m.

This will allow for some step back weeks as well as increasing the mileage to the desired 20m.

Thanks Ariana, just bit worried jumping from 10m to 16m with nearly 3 weeks off. Was going to treat the FD 10m as a long run and take it handy, with mile extra either side

ariana`

Now that you guys have passed the half-way mark I just want to post a quick reminder of some of the basics of this marathon training malarkey!

- Trust the plan, stick with the plan! These plans have got countless people around over the past 10 years and there's no reason to believe either one of them won't get YOU around too!
- Trust the paces! Quite often novices start to panic and suddenly think they're not doing enough or running too slow BUT the plans work, the paces work - we want you to succeed almost as much as you want yourself to succeed so we wouldn't lead you stray i promise
- The long runs are really truly long now, this means each long run is a monster session! Prepare and recover from them by eating well (a good balance of carbs/protein/fats - junk food does not an athlete make!), drink plenty of fluids, sleep well (yes, i know a lot of you/us have small kids but is it really the small kids that have us up until midnight or is it Netflix/Facebook/Strava :P), warm up/cool down appropriately from your runs.
- Minimise injury risk - now is not a good time to try out figure staking or sky diving if it's not something you've been doing all along :eek:
- Back to school is looming for a lot of you parents - this usually brings an onslaught of colds in my house - now might be a good time to invest in a multivitamin or vitamin C supplement to boost the ole immune system.
- The evenings are getting darker, get yourselves plenty of hi-vis gear and stay safe first and foremost.
- The mornings and evenings are getting cooler too! You may not need much in the way of warmer running gear (personally i find a pair of gloves and a buff is all i add in the Winter months) but make sure you have warm clothes at hand to put on after your run if you're not getting straight into a hot shower.
- There will be tough runs. You've done over 9 hard weeks now, the end isn't quite in sight yet, these are the really really tough weeks, put the head down and knuckle through these next 3-4 weeks and before you know it you'll be on the count down to taper time! It will be worth it

gypsylee

Some good tips there ariana. Will be taking heed of them.

pilot1087

Thanks Ariana,

Does anyone have any recommendations in terms of introducing energy gels/anything to take during runs to keep the energy levels up. I tend not to take anything on board for runs less then 10 miles but I'm feeling I should start getting used to some sort of in race fuelling now.

Huzzah!

ariana` wrote: »

- There will be tough runs. You've done over 9 hard weeks now, the end isn't quite in sight yet, these are the really really tough weeks, put the head down and knuckle through these next 3-4 weeks and before you know it you'll be on the count down to taper time! It will be worth it

This 1,000 times. I was delighted when I passed through the halfway mark in the plan and then, bang, once week 10 or 11 came around, I lost all motivation. It just seemed liked I'd been training for the marathon forever and I still had forever to go. But it flies by!

Rossi7

Just catching up on the last two weeks I've missed being on holidays, some great effort being put in with the LSR's and races. Didn't get in any runs while I was away so looking forward to getting the head down for the next 9 weeks or so.

Quick question for the lads, would I be better off taking the Frank Duffy as a training run seeing as I've missed two weeks or just give it a good rattle and see how I go ?

Sheep1978

pilot1087 wrote: »

Thanks Ariana,

Does anyone have any recommendations in terms of introducing energy gels/anything to take during runs to keep the energy levels up. I tend not to take anything on board for runs less then 10 miles but I'm feeling I should start getting used to some sort of in race fuelling now.

you should definitely use your long runs for trying this kind of thing out. Whther its gels, jelly, powders etc all depends on the individual and what they can stomach or what works for them. But do not wait until raceday to try something for the first time.

happyfriday74

pilot1087 wrote: »

Thanks Ariana,

Does anyone have any recommendations in terms of introducing energy gels/anything to take during runs to keep the energy levels up. I tend not to take anything on board for runs less then 10 miles but I'm feeling I should start getting used to some sort of in race fuelling now.

I started taking gels on my ten miles runs. Pop one at 5 miles. Once i get to 12 and above I'd take them at 6 or 7 miles and another 5 miles from the end. I also pack a snickers or picnic bar if I'm doing 16 miles or above

In terms of flavour I got as boring flavour as possible, orange or bananas but grabbed a few weird ones for the craic. One of the weird ones, cola, ended up being so lovely I ended up using that from then on.

Definitely get used to them. The urban legends about them making you need to go to the loo are actually true..never happened to me but has happened to others! So long as you get used to them in training you'll be fine

coogy

Sheep1978 wrote: »

you should definitely use your long runs for trying this kind of thing out. Whther its gels, jelly, powders etc all depends on the individual and what they can stomach or what works for them. But do not wait until raceday to try something for the first time.

Someone earlier recommended honey, mashed strawberries and sea salt mixed together as an alternative to gels..........might be worth a try, provided you can find something suitable to store them in!

skyblue46

Rossi7 wrote: »

Just catching up on the last two weeks I've missed being on holidays, some great effort being put in with the LSR's and races. Didn't get in any runs while I was away so looking forward to getting the head down for the next 9 weeks or so.

Quick question for the lads, would I be better off taking the Frank Duffy as a training run seeing as I've missed two weeks or just give it a good rattle and see how I go ?

I wouldn't really recommend racing it coming off a 2 week break. I'd be looking at getting back on the horse and getting a decent long run in.

coogy

Last Saturday, during mile 13 of my 18 mile run, I was going through St Catherine's Park along a steep enough incline in a wooded section of the demesne.
Two runners were coming towards me from the opposite direction and just as we passed each other, one of them said (acknowledging me) "there's a man running within himself!"

Not sure what that means but I'll take it as a compliment!

Singer

happyfriday74 wrote: »

I started taking gels on my ten miles runs. Pop one at 5 miles. Once i get to 12 and above I'd take them at 6 or 7 miles and another 5 miles from the end. I also pack a snickers or picnic bar if I'm doing 16 miles or above

coogy wrote: »

Someone earlier recommended honey, mashed strawberries and sea salt mixed together as an alternative to gels..........might be worth a try, provided you can find something suitable to store them in!

The repeated advice around trying different things out and seeing what works for you is good - at this stage everybody should be trying out some race fuel, and if possible trying them out in actual race scenarios, as it's different necking a gooey gel on a nice relaxing 18 mile LSR compared to when you're really pushing yourself. The 10 Mile, HM and 3/4 marathon events coming up in the Dublin area are great for this.

I would recommend trying out the most simple and efficient options. There will be Lucozade and Hi-Five gels on the DCM course, so see if you can glug them down so you can take advantage of them. While you don't want to entirely depend on what's being handed out (especially if you're spending a lot of time on your feet), the majority of runners could get most of their necessary fuel from what's being handed out on the course.

Chocolate bars and other generic sweets are not optimal for the task at hand, which is to fuel the body without putting you off your running. This means getting various easily digestible sugars into the body at the highest concentrate levels that your stomach can handle. Sweets can provide a yummy distraction while on the course, but your stomach doesn't really need to be processing fat and all that other stuff in a Picnic bar. You could get more quickly digestible energy out of a gel which is quicker and easier to eat, and slightly easier to carry. Setting out to run a marathon with a load of delicious but impractical honey, strawberries and sea salt (sounds like a dessert from a Michelin star restaurant) sounds bulky, risky and a lot of work.

A caveat here is if you will be on your feet for a long time - fuelling strategy for a 5 hour marathon is probably a good bit different from a 3 hour marathon, and you will probably need something more substantial than a few gels and Lucozade. Maybe something portable like granola bars, or something salty like pretzels. Whatever you decide, try them out in advance on your long runs and preferably a race or two. All this said, it can be a nice relief eating some jelly babies being handed out by strangers at mile 23

coogy

Singer wrote: »

Setting out to run a marathon with a load of delicious but impractical honey, strawberries and sea salt (sounds like a dessert from a Michelin star restaurant) sounds bulky, risky and a lot of work.

Yep. I'm definitely sticking to my cliff bloks!

braynewbie

Baby75 wrote: »

anything above 10mm my current runners are a 12mm come over to my log for more info and chats about it! I am suffering nearly 6 months I do well and then get a setback and now I am out of DCM I will be there as cheer squad:) but if you go a shop like Run logic or similar and explain to them they will advise on runners.
!

thanks for the info, what log?

braynewbie

skyblue46 wrote: »

Having a look through your Strava indicates that with the exception of your long runs you do all your runs faster than PMP and many of them at about (or slightly faster than) your HMP. To me this is something that would leave you with dead legs. The PMP runs are meant to be your fastest runs, all the rest should be easy.

stupid question but what is PMP?

Mr. Guappa

braynewbie wrote: »

stupid question but what is PMP?

Planned Marathon Pace

braynewbie

Singer wrote: »

Maybe something portable like granola bars, or something salty like pretzels. Whatever you decide, try them out in advance on your long runs and preferably a race or two. All this said, it can be a nice relief eating some jelly babies being handed out by strangers at mile 23

One of the nicest things I've ever eaten was a marshmallow handed out by a supporter at the Enniscorthy Strawberry 5mile

NyOmnishambles

Morning all

I am away the weekend the 20 miler is planned so I was figuring I would do it this weekend and do the 17 mile midweek and the mid week run the following weekend when I am away

I am unlikely to be able to get the lsr in the weekend I am away so thought this was an achievable way of not missing anything?

Seem reasonable?

skyblue46

NyOmnishambles wrote: »

Morning all

I am away the weekend the 20 miler is planned so I was figuring I would do it this weekend and do the 17 mile midweek and the mid week run the following weekend when I am away

I am unlikely to be able to get the lsr in the weekend I am away so thought this was an achievable way of not missing anything?

Seem reasonable?

I don't think it would be a great idea. Running 37 miles in a 3/4 day window is probably pushing the envelope a bit. I'd be inclined to just chalk it down to real life getting in the way. I'd only consider it if you get the 20 miler done on the Saturday and then leave the 17 until the following Thursday at the earliest. But that's just my humble opinion :pac:

ariana`

NyOmnishambles wrote: »

Morning all

I am away the weekend the 20 miler is planned so I was figuring I would do it this weekend and do the 17 mile midweek and the mid week run the following weekend when I am away

I am unlikely to be able to get the lsr in the weekend I am away so thought this was an achievable way of not missing anything?

Seem reasonable?

skyblue46 wrote: »

I don't think it would be a great idea. Running 37 miles in a 3/4 day window is probably pushing the envelope a bit. I'd be inclined to just chalk it down to real life getting in the way. I'd only consider it if you get the 20 miler done on the Saturday and then leave the 17 until the following Thursday at the earliest. But that's just my humble opinion :pac:

I second this. We have a saying "don't chase (missed) miles" and this is definitely a scenario where this rule applies! Please don't contemplate doing 17m and 20m in the same week. I suggest you do the 20m this week and let the 17m go. If you can do a medium long run next Thursday then by all means do 10-12m but i wouldn't even go to 17m that soon - 20m really is a big ask of you body and you will likely still be recovering and will put yourself at increased risk of injury. But that is also just my humble opinion

Best of luck with the 20 miler - it's a big milestone

NyOmnishambles

Thanks guys

Happy to do shorter distances midweek and the following weekend and appreciate the sensible advice

Looking forward to the 20 miler, only ever did it once before but I am much better prepared for it now

bluestone

bluestone wrote: »

yes, i'm also planning on doing this. it was either this or the blessington half on the same day & prefer the earlier start for ratoath. i assume ratoath should be a bit flatter as well

Can’t run on the Saturday now so doing the Roscommon half marathon the following day. Anyone else doing this?

Looking forward to see where I am really at over this distance. Due to run a 18 mile that day so plan to split the other 5miles between warm up/cool down at lsr pace. Would this be a good idea?

coogy

bluestone wrote: »

Can’t run on the Saturday now so doing the Roscommon half marathon the following day. Anyone else doing this?

Looking forward to see where I am really at over this distance. Due to run a 18 mile that day so plan to split the other 5miles between warm up/cool down at lsr pace. Would this be a good idea?

Yes, I think that's a good idea. I'm running in the Ratoath half marathon which is the weekend of my 20 mile lsr. I'll be making up the mileage either side of the race, (lsr pace) so yeah, I reckon you have the right idea.