DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

ariana`

bluestone wrote: »

Can’t run on the Saturday now so doing the Roscommon half marathon the following day. Anyone else doing this?

Looking forward to see where I am really at over this distance. Due to run a 18 mile that day so plan to split the other 5miles between warm up/cool down at lsr pace. Would this be a good idea?

If you plan to race it all out then you don't need to worry about hitting the 18m as you will already have had a monster session just by racing 13.1. You will probably be doing a short w/u and c/d anyhow and this will suffice for the day.

If you are treating it as an LSR and running it at LSR pace then you should add the miles to make it 18.

Are you planning to do the Race Series HM also? I don't recommend racing 2 HMs all out in such a short period of weeks so if you do plan to do that one then I'd advice you treat one of them as a long run by adding the miles either side of the race and running it at LSR pace.

I hope all that makes sense

whiskey_sour

beakerjoe wrote: »

whiskey_sour wrote: »

Thanks so much kittyclaws, you've made me feel so much better! Thank God for this thread!

Im only at 8 miles now (goal was to be 12 miles by this weekend) and Im not sweating it , so being at 15 miles is a great position to be. Rest up, dont rush it even though you'll be eager to get into the swing of things. Recovery is as important as teh training itself.

You can afford the rest so dont fret too much

Thanks beakerjoe! Sorry I'm only seeing this now...I was staying away from the thread to help with the FOMO!

coogy

ariana` wrote: »

If you plan to race it all out then you don't need to worry about hitting the 18m as you will already have had a monster session just by racing 13.1. You will probably be doing a short w/u and c/d anyhow and this will suffice for the day.

If you are treating it as an LSR and running it at LSR pace then you should add the miles to make it 18.

Are you planning to do the Race Series HM also? I don't recommend racing 2 HMs all out in such a short period of weeks so if you do plan to do that one then I'd advice you treat one of them as a long run by adding the miles either side of the race and running it at LSR pace.

I hope all that makes sense

Ok, maybe I'll just let you guys answer the questions from now on.......;)

I normally do a 2 mile warm up and 2 mile cool down on a race day which will leave me a few miles short of the 20 miles. I'll be giving it socks in Ratoath so do you think this should be ok?

OOnegative

coogy wrote: »

Ok, maybe I'll just let you guys answer the questions from now on.......;)

I normally do a 2 mile warm up and 2 mile cool down on a race day which will leave me a few miles short of the 20 miles. I'll be giving it socks in Ratoath so do you think this should be ok?

If your flat out racing the half a mile w/u and c/d is sufficient. As ariana states 13.1 races is a monster session so no need for much more than a short warm up and cool down. If your treating it as an LSR by all means add more mileage either side to make up the required amount for the day.

ariana`

coogy wrote: »

Ok, maybe I'll just let you guys answer the questions from now on.......;)

I normally do a 2 mile warm up and 2 mile cool down on a race day which will leave me a few miles short of the 20 miles. I'll be giving it socks in Ratoath so do you think this should be ok?

coogy it's great to see you all participating in the conversations and giving advice to each other, that's what this thread is all about. Having the mentors around is just to oversee things and throw in the odd reply where we see fit

OOnegative wrote: »

If your flat out racing the half a mile w/u and c/d is sufficient. As ariana states 13.1 races is a monster session so no need for much more than a short warm up and cool down. If your treating it as an LSR by all means add more mileage either side to make up the required amount for the day.

Perfectly put thanks

coogy

ariana` wrote: »

coogy it's great to see you all participating in the conversations and giving advice to each other, that's what this thread is all about. Having the mentors around is just to oversee things and throw in the odd reply where we see fit

Haha, yeah I totally get that! I would have just gone ahead and ran 7 miles either side of the half marathon without a second thought.
Glad I mentioned it now! :pac:

ariana`

This post provides good detail on the FD10 course for anyone racing at the weekend

brownbinman

Good job you posted this Ariana, I was convinced it was on in Phoenix Park

brownbinman

Follow up question, if one wanted to do another few miles afterwards, where's the best place to do them after FD10

bucketybuck

I'm not doing the FD 10 mile at the weekend, but because its in the plan I'm still only going to do 10 miles as my LSR, am I a dirty cheat?

skyblue46

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm not doing the FD 10 mile at the weekend, but because its in the plan I'm still only going to do 10 miles as my LSR, am I a dirty cheat?

No not at all. You're a Lily livered, yellow bellied coward ;-)

bucketybuck

skyblue46 wrote: »

No not at all. You're a Lily livered, yellow bellied coward ;-)

Quiet you, I've been looking forward to this low mileage week! :pac:

On a more serious note, I know I should be doing something like 26/27km this weekend, but after 30k last week, 32k next week and similar distances in the weeks to come, I'm hoping I won't do much damage by having a big step back week.

I'm going to do the 16km at PMP anyway, which is sorta like race pace...

bluestone

ariana` wrote: »

If you plan to race it all out then you don't need to worry about hitting the 18m as you will already have had a monster session just by racing 13.1. You will probably be doing a short w/u and c/d anyhow and this will suffice for the day.

If you are treating it as an LSR and running it at LSR pace then you should add the miles to make it 18.

Are you planning to do the Race Series HM also? I don't recommend racing 2 HMs all out in such a short period of weeks so if you do plan to do that one then I'd advice you treat one of them as a long run by adding the miles either side of the race and running it at LSR pace.

I hope all that makes sense

Thanks, I will be racing it as a barometer for D Day.
I’m not running the race series. Only doing LSRs from here on other than the Roscommon race

coogy

ariana` wrote: »

Now that you guys have passed the half-way mark I just want to post a quick reminder of some of the basics of this marathon training malarkey!

- Trust the plan, stick with the plan! These plans have got countless people around over the past 10 years and there's no reason to believe either one of them won't get YOU around too!
- Trust the paces! Quite often novices start to panic and suddenly think they're not doing enough or running too slow BUT the plans work, the paces work - we want you to succeed almost as much as you want yourself to succeed so we wouldn't lead you stray i promise
- The long runs are really truly long now, this means each long run is a monster session! Prepare and recover from them by eating well (a good balance of carbs/protein/fats - junk food does not an athlete make!), drink plenty of fluids, sleep well (yes, i know a lot of you/us have small kids but is it really the small kids that have us up until midnight or is it Netflix/Facebook/Strava :P), warm up/cool down appropriately from your runs.
- Minimise injury risk - now is not a good time to try out figure staking or sky diving if it's not something you've been doing all along :eek:
- Back to school is looming for a lot of you parents - this usually brings an onslaught of colds in my house - now might be a good time to invest in a multivitamin or vitamin C supplement to boost the ole immune system.
- The evenings are getting darker, get yourselves plenty of hi-vis gear and stay safe first and foremost.
- The mornings and evenings are getting cooler too! You may not need much in the way of warmer running gear (personally i find a pair of gloves and a buff is all i add in the Winter months) but make sure you have warm clothes at hand to put on after your run if you're not getting straight into a hot shower.
- There will be tough runs. You've done over 9 hard weeks now, the end isn't quite in sight yet, these are the really really tough weeks, put the head down and knuckle through these next 3-4 weeks and before you know it you'll be on the count down to taper time! It will be worth it

I'm only just reading post for the first time.

It's come at a very good time because I have been having some doubts in my head over the last couple of weeks.

As well as things have been going for me and despite the discipline I've shown in getting the runs completed, there's a part of me that's making me think I'm getting it all wrong.
I worry that I'm not getting the right nutrition. I worry that I'm not stretching enough. I know I could definitely get more sleep. I worry that I will start to tire of running solo.
I suppose to sum it up, I worry that I'm simply going through the motions by not putting as much effort into the non-running aspects of training and that by race day, the wheels will have come off completely.
Don't get me wrong, I love to run and I've gotten huge enjoyment out of it up to this point but a lot of it feels like guesswork and that's where the feelings of doubt come in.
Perhaps this is normal for a first-time marathon runner like myself but just wanted to get it out there in case anyone had similar experiences?


Edit: By 'guesswork', I'm not suggesting that I've not been heeding the sound advice I've received on this thread so far! Nor would I ever plough ahead with some aspect of the training without knowing what I was doing first!

Rossi7

We've got another 9 weeks to go, the guys will have us in good shape. I'll have to work on the sleep side of things myself, not sure 7-8 hrs is ideal but such is life. As long as we run to what we are capable of we'll get there

coogy

Rossi7 wrote: »

We've got another 9 weeks to go, the guys will have us in good shape. I'll have to work on the sleep side of things myself, not sure 7-8 hrs is ideal but such is life. As long as we run to what we are capable of we'll get there

True..........true.:)

yido1882

coogy wrote: »

I'm only just reading post for the first time.

It's come at a very good time because I have been having some doubts in my head over the last couple of weeks.

As well as things have been going for me and despite the discipline I've shown in getting the runs completed, there's a part of me that's making me think I'm getting it all wrong.
I worry that I'm not getting the right nutrition. I worry that I'm not stretching enough. I know I could definitely get more sleep. I worry that I will start to tire of running solo.
I suppose to sum it up, I worry that I'm simply going through the motions by not putting as much effort into the non-running aspects of training and that by race day, the wheels will have come off completely.
Don't get me wrong, I love to run and I've gotten huge enjoyment out of it up to this point but a lot of it feels like guesswork and that's where the feelings of doubt come in.
Perhaps this is normal for a first-time marathon runner like myself but just wanted to get it out there in case anyone had similar experiences?


Edit: By 'guesswork', I'm not suggesting that I've not been heeding the sound advice I've received on this thread so far! Nor would I ever plough ahead with some aspect of the training without knowing what I was doing first!

I think we all have doubts along the way. I'm similar on the nutrition side, I could do a lot better but I'm 100 times healthier now than i was 18 months ago.

Cut yourself a bit of slack, I follow you on Strava and you're doing savage mileage every week, running on your holidays etc.
You're doing a great job

ChippyRun

brownbinman wrote: »

Follow up question, if one wanted to do another few miles afterwards, where's the best place to do them after FD10

Malahide/Portmarnock is only a couple of miles from the finish in Swords and there is a lovely run from Malahide along the coast towards Howth. At the end of your run, walk in to the sea at Portmarnock, ice cold but works miracles for tired legs:)

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

I'm only just reading post for the first time.

It's come at a very good time because I have been having some doubts in my head over the last couple of weeks.

As well as things have been going for me and despite the discipline I've shown in getting the runs completed, there's a part of me that's making me think I'm getting it all wrong.
I worry that I'm not getting the right nutrition. I worry that I'm not stretching enough. I know I could definitely get more sleep. I worry that I will start to tire of running solo.
I suppose to sum it up, I worry that I'm simply going through the motions by not putting as much effort into the non-running aspects of training and that by race day, the wheels will have come off completely.
Don't get me wrong, I love to run and I've gotten huge enjoyment out of it up to this point but a lot of it feels like guesswork and that's where the feelings of doubt come in.
Perhaps this is normal for a first-time marathon runner like myself but just wanted to get it out there in case anyone had similar experiences?


Edit: By 'guesswork', I'm not suggesting that I've not been heeding the sound advice I've received on this thread so far! Nor would I ever plough ahead with some aspect of the training without knowing what I was doing first!

I hear you. I was that soldier 12 months ago. I remember posting a question which paraphrased was asking if I was training hard enough, that I had an expectation of being pushed to the limits most training days, of falling in the door in a breathless heap! The replies I got, which of course I have since found to be bang on, all pointed out the purpose of these plans....to train novice runners to complete a gruelling endurance challenge. It's a slowly slowly approach. An overtrained and fatigued body won't have a great chance on the day. You'll have plenty of opportunities in future to fine tune things further.

NyOmnishambles

Evening All

I had day 1 of my Runclemute/Clyrunmute/Muteruncly
Whatever you want to call it, the method suggested earlier in this thread of cycling in/running home, running in the next day and cycling home
Trying this as running with a bag on my back was becoming a nusciance

Today went fecking amazing, the cycle in was a breeze, the legs are a lot stronger from the running than when I last cycled in so that was a good start

I was worried about running home on slightly tired legs as it is uphill but they were fine

Today was the first day that I tried running with a bit pace (still much slower than most as I am a lardy lump) that I have confidence and was comfortable within myself to do it
I was delighted that I was able to push myself a little and maintain the pace, even increasing it as I went on

And then I finished painting the living room

Today was a good day

A NyOmnishambles ramble

skyblue46

Fair play. Be proud of what you are doing. It's an exhilarating feeling when you begin to notice improvements. Keep the good work going.

juke

NyOmnishambles wrote: »

Evening All

I had day 1 of my Runclemute/Clyrunmute/Muteruncly
Whatever you want to call it, the method suggested earlier in this thread of cycling in/running home, running in the next day and cycling home
Trying this as running with a bag on my back was becoming a nusciance

Today went fecking amazing, the cycle in was a breeze, the legs are a lot stronger from the running than when I last cycled in so that was a good start

I was worried about running home on slightly tired legs as it is uphill but they were fine

Today was the first day that I tried running with a bit pace (still much slower than most as I am a lardy lump) that I have confidence and was comfortable within myself to do it
I was delighted that I was able to push myself a little and maintain the pace, even increasing it as I went on

And then I finished painting the living room

Today was a good day

A NyOmnishambles ramble

Well done! The one time I tried runmuting was a disaster, I'm afraid to try it again!

Painting? At this stage in the plan, are there not rules about unnecessary physical activities ðŸ˜

coogy

NyOmnishambles wrote: »

Evening All

I had day 1 of my Runclemute/Clyrunmute/Muteruncly
Whatever you want to call it, the method suggested earlier in this thread of cycling in/running home, running in the next day and cycling home
Trying this as running with a bag on my back was becoming a nusciance

Today went fecking amazing, the cycle in was a breeze, the legs are a lot stronger from the running than when I last cycled in so that was a good start

I was worried about running home on slightly tired legs as it is uphill but they were fine

Today was the first day that I tried running with a bit pace (still much slower than most as I am a lardy lump) that I have confidence and was comfortable within myself to do it
I was delighted that I was able to push myself a little and maintain the pace, even increasing it as I went on

And then I finished painting the living room

Today was a good day

A NyOmnishambles ramble

Nice one! Looks like you have a pretty straightforward route in too!

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

I hear you. I was that soldier 12 months ago. I remember posting a question which paraphrased was asking if I was training hard enough, that I had an expectation of being pushed to the limits most training days, of falling in the door in a breathless heap! The replies I got, which of course I have since found to be bang on, all pointed out the purpose of these plans....to train novice runners to complete a gruelling endurance challenge. It's a slowly slowly approach. An overtrained and fatigued body won't have a great chance on the day. You'll have plenty of opportunities in future to fine tune things further.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.I too had visions of myself being pushed to the limits and beyond but in truth, I've returned home from most runs feeling really positive and energised. True, it's been tough alright but definitely way more manageable than I expected.
Just need to put a little more time into some other elements of the training and it'll all be gravy.

Singer

brownbinman wrote: »

Follow up question, if one wanted to do another few miles afterwards, where's the best place to do them after FD10

Malahide/Portmarnock is only a couple of miles from the finish in Swords and there is a lovely run from Malahide along the coast towards Howth. At the end of your run, walk in to the sea at Portmarnock, ice cold but works miracles for tired legs:)

It's a little over 3 miles from Swords Main St. to Malahide village, and then another 2.5 miles or so to Portmarnock beach after that. It's a lovely run, but not something I'd do (and back!?) after a race. The best place to go is probably the Ward River Valley park (nobody calls it that though) which is where the Rivervalley parkrun takes place - directions available on the parkrun website: http://www.parkrun.ie/rivervalley/

There's even an interesting forest to explore there and plenty of fun hills to do some nice relaxing post-race hill sprints.

coogy

yido1882 wrote: »

I think we all have doubts along the way. I'm similar on the nutrition side, I could do a lot better but I'm 100 times healthier now than i was 18 months ago.

Cut yourself a bit of slack, I follow you on Strava and you're doing savage mileage every week, running on your holidays etc.
You're doing a great job

Thanks for that. I suppose the fact that I'm coming home from each of my runs in one piece and able to clearly communicate with other humans must count for something.........:P

NyOmnishambles

Morning all

I bought new running shoes recently, they are really comfy underfoot and have a bounce so I feel I can push harder without any extra impact on the muscles

However

They are very tight across the bridge of one foot by the end of a run, the part of the foot with the bone sticking out just before the big toe gets quite sore
It isn't friction as there is no blistering

I figured they might stretch a bit with wear but is there anything I can do to help them, have only used them on midweek runs so far

braynewbie

NyOmnishambles wrote: »

Morning all

I bought new running shoes recently, they are really comfy underfoot and have a bounce so I feel I can push harder without any extra impact on the muscles

However

They are very tight across the bridge of one foot by the end of a run, the part of the foot with the bone sticking out just before the big toe gets quite sore
It isn't friction as there is no blistering

I figured they might stretch a bit with wear but is there anything I can do to help them, have only used them on midweek runs so far

I had this problem and was told to stuff them really well with wet paper and let it dry out. It's supposed to stretch them a bit. Maybe worth a try? Which runners did you get?

NyOmnishambles

braynewbie wrote: »

I had this problem and was told to stuff them really well with wet paper and let it dry out. It's supposed to stretch them a bit. Maybe worth a try? Which runners did you get?

I assume it helped yours?
I can give that a go over the weekend so

I got a pair of Hoka Cliftons, very different to the Asics I normally use
They are bouncy and squidgy and the legs feel fresher after using them, though maybe they aren't as good at encouraging proper form

braynewbie

NyOmnishambles wrote: »

I assume it helped yours?
I can give that a go over the weekend so

I got a pair of Hoka Cliftons, very different to the Asics I normally use
They are bouncy and squidgy and the legs feel fresher after using them, though maybe they aren't as good at encouraging proper form

erm no it didn't help me coz mine were very tight but it might help you? my problem ones were asics. You could also try lacing up from the second last holes rather than the last ones, this was another tip given to me. Helped me slightly but not enough