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DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread
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enjoy the run and running slower
That is great you have your plan picked now get it on a paper to stick on the fridge
I think you misunderstood me!!
Did 10km this evening, reducing my time by approx 40 secs/km on average. This only brings me to my PMP but atleast it is the right direction.0 -
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Wow, a lot of talk on training paces in the last 24 hours, it's great to see this place a hive of activity
The Boards plan was designed with the McMillan Calculator. This calculator is highly recognised and should suit any plan that doesn't come with a specific calculator recommended. So if you haven't already done it then get yourself over there and plug in a recent race time. The more recent and the longer the race the better (but if all you have is a 5k that is fine too). You will get your training paces off that. At the beginning you should try to stick to these paces, if you have a running watch set it up to give you an alert when you go too fast.
It's already been noted but you train to your current fitness level and not you aspired fitness level, so the training paces should be based on what you can run today, not what you hope to be able run come next October, you will all be fitter and stronger by then and that is one of the reasons why we suggest doing 1-2 races along the journey so you can potentially adjust your training paces at a later stage.
The reason we emphasis going slow is to build the aerobic engine for the endurance event ahead. Aerobic training produces muscular adaptations that improve oxygen transport to the muscles, reduces the rate of lactate formation, improves the rate of lactate removal and increases energy production and utilization. When you run slowly for prolonged periods, the body learns to break down and utilize fat as an energy source more efficiently. The more fat and less muscle glycogen you utilize, the more efficient you are and the better you will manage longer distances. As an additional benefit running slow will lessen your injury risk which is something i know quite a few of you have mentioned as a concern so if you're in any doubt it's a win-win
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Thanks.
Yeah. Hard to get round the fact I need to slow down even though I want a sub 4 time.
Yeah the training app has me running miles at 8.03 - 8.56 in a build up mode, 9-9.50 in a comfortable run and 10:42 for a jog. Which seems very slow.
Attached is some of my last runs. I think I Definitely need to slow down but don’t know if I can
Thanks for the tips and advise. Hope I can contribute more to this thread as the weeks go by
Well as I'm sure you know that list of runs, while impressively fast, wouldn't offer much in terms of the type of training you need for a marathon. There are a lot of posts already explaining why slow running is a major component in marathon training both in laymans terms and with scientific explanations. Hopefully you will soon move from thinking you definitely need to slow down to actually slowing down!
As regards not knowing if you can slow down....you could stop mid run at a traffic lights, you could slow to a jog if you were approaching a closed railway crossing so surely you can just do it because it's the right thing to do?0 -
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I'm just back from doing a 10km, 1:02:01. I think for the first time I got the hang of running slowly. It took me about 1km to find the rhythm but once I did I felt like I could hold it all day.
6.15min/km (10.04 min/mile) is about as slow as I can go. I tried to stay at 6.30min/km (10.30 min/mile) but I felt like I was going to trip over myself.
I was only paying attention to pace until 7 or 8km but then I started to look at the time. I really had to fight the urge to race myself to beat 60 mins. 0 -
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ahnoyouregrand wrote: »I think you misunderstood me!!
Did 10km this evening, reducing my time by approx 40 secs/km on average. This only brings me to my PMP but atleast it is the right direction.
Did I, you said you were going out and going to try running slower and you did a step in the right direction is right now you have your PMP sorted you just need to work out easy and LSR 0 -
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Well as I'm sure you know that list of runs, while impressively fast, wouldn't offer much in terms of the type of training you need for a marathon. There are a lot of posts already explaining why slow running is a major component in marathon training both in laymans terms and with scientific explanations. Hopefully you will soon move from thinking you definitely need to slow down to actually slowing down!
As regards not knowing if you can slow down....you could stop mid run at a traffic lights, you could slow to a jog if you were approaching a closed railway crossing so surely you can just do it because it's the right thing to do?
Took. Advise on board. Went out slower today. Still need to slow it down. Did 5.2 mile in 40.29 @ 7:44 pace. Still need to slow it down. But I definitely was not as tired as previous runs. Will try and slow it down more on Fri.
Question about heart rate. What is a normal rate my average today was 151 bpm my normal rate is 56-60bpm is the 151 normal or is it high and something to be worried about.0 -
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I've a bit of time to spare so I thought I'd write a bit up on this.
I'll start this off by saying that everyone is obsessed with speed when it comes to running. When people want to improve, all you hear is faster, intervals, tempos, speed endurance and 40 other different things. What most people don't understand is where speed mainly comes from in long distance running. If I asked every single one of you to go out and run a 200m sprint as fast as you can tomorrow morning; it would be at a much faster pace by a grand chasm than your marathon pace; common sense yes? Of course it is, what's this blithering idiot trying to say. For many of you and novice and even intermediate runners, the issue is not that you don't have the speed to run fast but it is that you don't have the endurance to hold a higher percentage of your max speed for a marathon. I'll give you a hypothetical here:
Runner A training for years with a background in high mileage.
1 mile PR: 5 minutes flat pace
Marathon PR: 2:50(6:30 pace)
Runner B who is new to running and training for 9 months
1 Mile PR: 5:20
Marathon PR: 3:15(7:30ish pace)
This are actual real life examples rounded off slightly to make it easier. There's only 20 seconds per mile difference between them for one mile(and runner B was actually faster over 200m) but somehow Runner A is able to run a minute per mile faster over the marathon distance. Why? Because runner B trained like an idiot:pac: and because runner A better endurance. The marathon is a test of endurance, it is the overwelmingly biggest weakness of newer runners. Endurance is speed in the marathon.
And how do you get more endurance? It's by training your aerobic system. For people who don't understand what your aerobic system is; it basically means that your body is supplying enough oxygen to your muscles from your lungs(when you run aerobically; you won't be breathing very heavily and all is going fine and dandy with your body). Then you have the anaerobic system, a lot of you guys will be familiar with this especially those of you that hammer all your runs but also from races because you will start to breath a lot more rapidily, your legs will start to burn a little and the feeling can become a little to very uncomfortable. That is because your muscles are starting to be starved of oxygen, your heart and lungs can't supply it to the muscles quick enough so your body has to try create fuel without oxygen and it can only do this for a short period of time(ever light a match and place it under a glass? It goes out much quicker depending on how oxygen it has). This is a strenous activity for your body to go through as it puts your heart, lungs and muscles under a lot of stress which is not something you want all the time as it takes a long time to recover from. Training is basically about balancing stress with recovery and finding the sweetspot, this is why you don't run hard everyday.
So how do you get faster if you can't/shouldn't push your body into an anaerobic state everyday? You go slower to get faster:pac:. Why you do this is to make your much durable and hardened aerobic system that can take more punishment better and more efficient meaning you can run a faster while your muscles have enough oxygen to feed them and that also has the knock on effect of pushing out how much faster you can run without sufficient oxygen like in a race. I hope I'm being clear enough here the faster you get aerobically the faster you will race. This is the same for even 800m runners. Endurance is that important for running. Here is how much each contributes to a marathon and an 800m race.
Marathon=99% aerobic/1%anaerobic
800m= 65% aerobic/35%anaerobic
Even for someone training for the 800m, it is still a huge priority and easy and aerobic runs will still make up a huge proportion of an 800m runners training for the most part.
Now, why so slow? Because slow easy runs create an aerobic stress. You don't see huge bodybuilders going to the gym and doing 1 rep at their max and walking out do you? No, they do reps and sets most of the time at 70% etc etc. The theory is the same for runners as both are trying to encourage growth without hindering recovery, they're trying to strike that balance and gradually fatigue the muscles over time. So what happens when you run slow and aerobically? You make your heart and lungs more efficient by forming new capillaries in your body and increasing the number of/and closeness of the cells to the oxygen supply so you increase how much oxygen your body can absorb and how much blood your body can transport around your body(this is why your resting heartrate drops as you get fit).
Anaerobic and faster training does this too but the kicker is that the amount of time spent exercising actually outweighs the intensity in importance of creating these changes so a lower intensity is perferable as you can run further and more over not just one day but weeks and months etc because the recovery time is less when you run aerobically and at low intensity. A plateau will come eventually where you just can't get any more efficient but that requires a very high level of training over years to actually reach that point.
Just to tack on a little bit extra on this but there was a guy named Eliud Too who won the Dublin Marathon in 2014; he used to post on strava a couple of years ago and ran 2:14 for the marathon. That's 5:07 per mile or 3:11 per km pace for the marathon and he would log some runs at 10:30 per mile pace or 6:30 per km. If a 2:14 marathon runner can slow down that much and run comfortably, no one here should have any excuses
Safiri brilliant post - thank you. If anyone hasn't read it then read it! And if you have read it then READ IT AGAIN and if you've read it again then read the last paragraph a 3rd time!!!0
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