Abortion ref - am I the only one who doesn't care?

JRant

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

An abortion isn't a fun weekend away

Just as well nobody is suggesting that then.

On a more serious note I believe we will still see a large fraction of people choose to travel to the UK even when the 8th is repealed. Anonymity and superior healthcare standards will be a mean lots will still use their services. I for one have very little faith in the HSE to deliver a product that suits the end users needs.

erica74

limnam wrote: »

I'm not concerned about the referendum at all.

Isn't that the point of this thread?

Lucky you.

How Soon Is Now

Wake me up when it's all over lads!

The Bishop Basher

_Dara_ wrote: »

That’s super. They’re going through an inactive period. But that could change. And you and I and everyone are cognisant of that fact. We allow it.

The problem is _Dara_

No matter what way i swing this i just don't trust them at all. Like not even the smallest smidgen of trust..

We don't even have a government at the moment.. FF and FG are doing the unthinkable and pretending to work together out of a thirst for power. The lefties are looming large and it's only a matter of time before we potentially have a bunch of crazy feminists running the show. Then come the millennials with all their nonsense..

Were doomed politically.

We should be taking power away from our government. Not giving them more.

Ash.J.Williams

JRant wrote: »

Just as well nobody is suggesting that then.

On a more serious note I believe we will still see a large fraction of people choose to travel to the UK even when the 8th is repealed. Anonymity and superior healthcare standards will be a mean lots will still use their services. I for one have very little faith in the HSE to deliver a product that suits the end users needs.

He kinda did

The Bishop Basher

Hitman3000 wrote: »

give a woman full autonomy over their own bodies.

Every time I hear that phrase I want to kill someone..

Not a baby obviously..

Any sjw type will do

JRant

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Since it only women that can get pregnant it is only relevant to a specific set of genitalia. As for trust women it is asking that you give a woman full autonomy over their own bodies. Do you assume every pregnant woman will suddenly want an abortion after legislation has been enacted assuming the 8th is appealed.

You clearly didn't read what I wrote so. Maybe go back and have a proper read of it again, just for the shïts and giggles.

I want all parents to be given the very best maternity healthcare we can provide. Hence the 8th has to go. This is not just an issue that solely effects women either and it is incredibly patronizing to all the men in the women's lives who support them through such a difficult time.

I read an absolutely heartbreaking blog by a father who traveled to the UK with his wife and the baby was diagnosed with a FFA. It really showed how the 8th and lack of proper maternity care here effects a whole raft of people, not just the woman. Maybe if you stop viewing it in such a gynocentric way you would see that this is an intensely complicated issue. "Trusting women" is a nothing argument used by people who can't think of a half decent point to make.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Froshtbit wrote: »

It's kind of a big deal for everybody.

Although I'll vote YES to repeal I really couldn't give a toss which side wins.

I care nothing for the debate, couldn't give a toss whether its up to 12 weeks or double that (or more).

skylight1987

I care and am thinking about it deeply and am still undecided

freshpopcorn

skylight1987 wrote: »

I care and am thinking about it deeply and am still undecided

Why are you undecided?

skylight1987

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Why are you undecided?

because I am pro womens rights because savita halappanavar breaks my heart and makes me angry
because I will not kill so much as an insect in my house so how can I vote to stop a heart beat on this island
do you see my genuine dilemma
do you see why im awake at night
im torn 50 \ 50 and as a result am undecided .

freshpopcorn

skylight1987 wrote: »

because I am pro womens rights because savita halappanavar breaks my heart and makes me angry
because I will not kill so much as an insect in my house so how can I vote to stop a heart beat on this island
do you see my genuine dilemma
do you see why im awake at night
im torn 50 \ 50 and as a result am undecided .

The Savita case is the one thing that confuses me to be honest some say the eighth was the reason she died(Dr Boylan) and others(independent reports) say it wasn't.
It depends on who'd right you value more. The woman's right to choose or the unborn's life or do you see it as a fetus.

splinter65

The posters shenanigans reflects the immaturity of this country.
Some Loveboth posters went up on a bit of road (non residential) near me on Friday evening 6ish . On about every 3rd lamppost on either side of the road so about 16 or so posters.
Saturday lunchtime, all those posters are down and instead of just putting yes posters on the other lampposts (lots left free) the very professionally erected yes posters are were the no ones used to be
Saturday night after midnight and all the yes posters have been turned in a way that no one can see them.
As of today, the posters have been turned back around but not facing the traffic coming either way, so pointless.
I personally would ban all the posters.

Squatter

Johngoose wrote: »

I think it’s a handy smoke screen for Fine Gael, when there are a raft of more pressing issues.

Didn't Enda Kenny promise the Zapper that he'd give her a referendum if she promised to vote for him as Taoiseach and then support his government?

pleas advice

splinter65 wrote: »

I personally would ban all the posters.

mod applications that way ---->

RDM_83 again

SusieBlue wrote: »

.

91% of abortions are carried out in the first trimester, even in countries with extremely liberal laws. Any that occur later are usually for heartbreaking reasons such as FFA or threat to the health of the mother.

.

Going to reuse this old post of mine again in relation to this.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Every single thread on this topic this line gets trotted out, the thing is there is no proof at all that most late term abortions in the UK are for medical reasons and the best indications I have seen is that the most common cause is social reasons.

If there is any substance to the claim please post it as I have posted this response a bunch of times and it's always ignored (and since boards.ie is now a pile of muck on mobile I can't requote myself so have had to type it out again :-/ ).

Here is a link to a bpass survey highlights backing up my point, the figure for serious medical problems is 1/3, and this is by bpas who campaign on a pro-choice outlook.

https://www.bpas.org/media/2027/late-abortion-report-v02.pdf

JRant

splinter65 wrote: »

The posters shenanigans reflects the immaturity of this country.
Some Loveboth posters went up on a bit of road (non residential) near me on Friday evening 6ish . On about every 3rd lamppost on either side of the road so about 16 or so posters.
Saturday lunchtime, all those posters are down and instead of just putting yes posters on the other lampposts (lots left free) the very professionally erected yes posters are were the no ones used to be
Saturday night after midnight and all the yes posters have been turned in a way that no one can see them.
As of today, the posters have been turned back around but not facing the traffic coming either way, so pointless.
I personally would ban all the posters.

Could you blame people for tuning out when both 'camps' are just so hostile to the average punter.

Vote Yes or you're a woman hating monster.

Vote No or you're a baby killing monster.

Nonsense of the highest order.

whisky_galore

Johngoose wrote: »

I think it’s a handy smoke screen for Fine Gael, when there are a raft of more pressing issues. The H.S.E. and housing are surely more important. Is having a referendum on abortion not implying that all other issues are sorted? I mean a return flight to a u.k. city could be sorted for €60. How about people unable to afford to rent or buy houses in the current market? Is that not a bigger issue?

Whatever about the cost ( a lot more than €60) it's a handy way of keeping the population and the media occupied until polling day.

Again....can the HSE be trusted? They probably don't have anyone trained to carry out the procedure.

A Pint of Goo

JRant wrote: »

Could you blame people for tuning out when both 'camps' are just so hostile to the average punter.

Vote Yes or you're a woman hating monster.

Vote No or you're a baby killing monster.

Nonsense of the highest order.

This. I've tuned out because of the tedious moralizers on both sides. 'but but your hypothetical future niece in 20 years!!' Don't care.

I wish the moderates on both sides well.

JRant

A Pint of Goo wrote: »

This. I've tuned out because of the tedious moralizers on both sides. 'but but your hypothetical future niece in 20 years!!' Don't care.

I wish the moderates on both sides well.

I remember coming up to the Brexit election and someone pointed out that people are sick of experts. I laughed this off as a nonsense at first but have slowly come to understand where they may have been going with this. These days everyone is an "expert" and anyone to be that doesn't agree with them is an idiot.

Outlaw Pete

freshpopcorn wrote: »

The Savita case is the one thing that confuses me to be honest some say the eighth was the reason she died(Dr Boylan) and others(independent reports) say it wasn't.
It depends on who'd right you value more. The woman's right to choose or the unborn's life or do you see it as a fetus.

Well, the 8th had nothing to do with Savita's tragic death. Her consultant stressed all along that had she made aware of Savita's vitals and other symptoms such as foul smelling discharge, she would have ordered an abortion sooner without hesitation. Indeed, within an hour of being made aware of these details an abortion was ordered. The 8th dis not in any way hinder Savita's care. Mismanagement and failure of her medical team to communicate adequately is what caused her sad and untimely death.

Trasna1

Toastytoes wrote: »

You have no idea how quickly the result could become important to you. If you have a partner, a sister, a niece, a friend who is or will be of child bearing age in the future, then this could easily land on your doorstep. Do you have any idea how common miscarriage is? Do you know how the 8 amendment affects the care of pregnant women in this country whose pregnancies are in difficultly through no fault of their own? It’s not just the people who want to have an abortion. It’s about the health and medical treatment of pregnant women all over the country. It’s not just a crisis pregnancy issue.

It’s a bit rich as a man to say there are more important issues than this such as health. This is a women’s health issue ffs.

Ill informed people like you shouldn’t have a vote on such an important issue.

To think women had to fight for their vote and people like you were handed one for having a penis....

Eh, he is choosing not to vote.

Ave Sodalis

Outlaw Pete wrote:

Well, the 8th had nothing to do with Savita's tragic death. Her consultant stressed all along that had she made aware of Savita's vitals and other symptoms such as foul smelling discharge, she would have ordered an abortion sooner without hesitation. Indeed, within an hour of being made aware of these details an abortion was ordered. The 8th dis not in any way hinder Savita's care. Mismanagement and failure of her medical team to communicate adequately is what caused her sad and untimely death.

I'm going to take it that is another lie from a pro-life leaflet? An independant official report found that the 8th was absolutely at fault and had tied the doctor's hands in Savita's case.

Saying she died of septis is like saying a person who broke their arm when they hit it did so because they hit it, not because of their underlying osteoporosis. It's like saying someone died of an infection, not from aids. It's like saying that someone dropped from exhaustion due to the hard work, not the person giving them to hard work.

Savita would still be alive if the 8th was gone.

AudreyHepburn

I wouldn’t say I’m disinterested, far from it but I am beginning to tune out of all the debates and discussions because I am sick to death of all the fighting and malice from both sides of the campaign.

Surely there are ways of getting your point across, be it yes or no, without resorting to childish fighting and foot stomping?

Johngoose

whisky_galore wrote: »

Whatever about the cost ( a lot more than €60) it's a handy way of keeping the population and the media occupied until polling day.

Again....can the HSE be trusted? They probably don't have anyone trained to carry out the procedure.

In Ireland an abortion won’t be cheap, we don’t do anything health related cheaply. Yes the H.S.E. will more than likely make a balls of it. The government love that the airwaves are full of abortion talk as you are saying. In my opinion having a vote on how to tackle the housing crisis would make a lot more sense. We have the morning after pill already, which I’m sure is a help.

Hannibal_Smith

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Well, the 8th had nothing to do with Savita's tragic death. Her consultant stressed all along that had she made aware of Savita's vitals and other symptoms such as foul smelling discharge, she would have ordered an abortion sooner without hesitation. Indeed, within an hour of being made aware of these details an abortion was ordered. The 8th dis not in any way hinder Savita's care. Mismanagement and failure of her medical team to communicate adequately is what caused her sad and untimely death.

The woman was left for a week miscarrying her child. For a week she knew the heart was giving up and no one would help her. If she had got the abortion she requested would her situation have been detected sooner? Who knows, may be the medics. But her situation is horribly tragic. Why would you leave a woman in that amount of emotional anguish because of the 8th?

Ave Sodalis

Johngoose wrote:

In Ireland an abortion won’t be cheap, we don’t do anything health related cheaply. Yes the H.S.E. will more than likely make a balls of it. The government love that the airwaves are full of abortion talk as you are saying. In my opinion having a vote on how to tackle the housing crisis would make a lot more sense. We have the morning after pill already, which I’m sure is a help.

There's nothing in the constitution that would help with the housing crisis.

Unfortunately, the morning after pill is not particularly effective due to it's limited usage and small window of opportunity. If you have already ovulated, it is useless.

BarleySweets

Johngoose wrote: »

In Ireland an abortion won’t be cheap, we don’t do anything health related cheaply. Yes the H.S.E. will more than likely make a balls of it. The government love that the airwaves are full of abortion talk as you are saying. In my opinion having a vote on how to tackle the housing crisis would make a lot more sense. We have the morning after pill already, which I’m sure is a help.

I know it seems like an irrelevant referendum when it doesn’t affect you personally but this is an important vote. And in reality, this vote will affect far more people than any vote on housing (as important as housing is, this referendum affects 50% of our population from now and forevermore into the future.)

The referendum isn’t about contraception. The morning after pill can’t help women with actual crisis pregnancies. Not to mention the fact that a lot of crisis pregnancies start out as a couple who dearly wanted to have a child, but through no fault of their own, developed some sort of issue that has impacted the pregnancy in some way. It’s about guaranteed maternity care for the women of Ireland.

In the debate threads there’s been a bunch of stories of how the 8th interferes with maternity care. Note also that none of these tales results in “deaths due to the 8th”, yet the 8th actually is the cause:

- pregnant women with cancer find that all info regarding their cancer dries up as doctors withheld info out of fear that the woman might abort in order to treat her cancer. A lot of cancer drugs can’t be given to pregnant women. So if the doctors don’t tell her what’s happening, she can’t choose to fight her cancer. Pregnant women who die from cancer are recorded as just that, their death is not recorded as being caused by the 8th.

- some epileptic women take medicine to prevent seizures. These seizures can be life threatening. This medicine can’t be taken or prescribed during pregnancy. These women are not asked to choose between their medicine and having a baby. They’re forced into the choice: sorry love, you’re going to have to put up with 9 months of a risk of life threatening seizures because you are having a baby. Congrats! As above, pregnant epileptic women who die can die from any number of causes: stroke, a fall caused by a seizure, asphyxiation etc. but none of them are recorded as dying because of the 8th. But the 8th is why they can’t continue their medicine in the first place.

- some women are afflicted with physical abnormalities in their womb which means the location that the baby implants is crucial. If it implants in a regularly shaped section of the womb, all is good and the baby will be fine. But if it implants in one of the irregularly shaped sections of the womb, then it’s not going to make it until birth, a miscarriage is guaranteed. So doctors can tell immediately if the baby will make it or if it will miscarry, but even if they can guarantee a miscarriage is going to happen, due to the 8th, Irish doctors cannot offer the Mum the same options that are available to women from other countries in this situation. The Mum is forced into carrying on with a doomed pregnancy, possibly for months.

These situations are the tip of the iceberg. It’s barbaric. In other countries women in these situations will be advised by their doctors and allowed to choose what risks they want to deal with. In Ireland, women in these situations are often kept in the dark and even if they’re told, they’re forced into living with the risks and all that that entails.

whisky_galore

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

There's nothing in the constitution that would help with the housing crisis.

Ok, so do nothing then. Just wait until it's worth the private sector's while to build.

Ave Sodalis

whisky_galore wrote:

Ok, so do nothing then. Just wait until it's worth the private sector's while to build.

That's not what I said.

Iseedeadpixels

I'll be voting to repeal but I am sick of the ****e I have to see and read about it, people falling out over opinions is ridiculous.

People with repeal tshirts/jumpers and profile pics is just cringey.

Being told I shouldnt be allowed have an opinion on it because I'm male but to make sure I vote yes :rolleyes:

"Its misogynistic no man will tell me what to do with my body" It's not really I've seen more Women on the no side.

It would be nice if they paid this much attention to voting for Government etc but will probably go back to not voting and whinging about TD's.

Ave Sodalis

Iseedeadpixels wrote:

Being told I shouldnt be allowed have an opinion on it because I'm male but to make sure I vote yes

There is a good chance that the person who told you that was pro-life pretending to be pro-choice. They have already been caught doing exactly that

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

BarleySweets

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

I'll be voting to repeal but I am sick of the ****e I have to see and read about it, people falling out over opinions is ridiculous.

People with repeal tshirts/jumpers and profile pics is just cringey.

Being told I shouldnt be allowed have an opinion on it because I'm male but to make sure I vote yes :rolleyes:

"Its misogynistic no man will tell me what to do with my body" It's not really I've seen more Women on the no side.

It would be nice if they paid this much attention to voting for Government etc but will probably go back to not voting and whinging about TD's.

You have to remember it’s an emotive issue. And not everyone expresses themselves tactfully at all times, especially when they’re discussing topics that are close to their heart.

So go easy on anyone calling you misogynistic, they probably don’t want to hurt you. It’s just easier sometimes to be blunt rather than get into the ins and outs of it.

A parallel would be something like if you had a mate that wasn’t Irish telling you all the ways that you are not a “real” Irish person, telling you how Irish people should act and telling you what Irish people should and should not be allowed to do. How much heed would you give them?

whisky_galore

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

There is a good chance that the person who told you that was pro-life pretending to be pro-choice. They have already been caught doing exactly that

Jesus.

Reds under the bed style paranoia here.

Iseedeadpixels

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

There is a good chance that the person who told you that was pro-life pretending to be pro-choice. They have already been caught doing exactly that

This is another thing both sides accusing each other of under handed tactics.....This girl is not pro-choice or a fake etc shes a friend of a friend with all the bells and whistles on her fb profile.

Iseedeadpixels

BarleySweets wrote: »

You have to remember it’s an emotive issue. And not everyone expresses themselves tactfully at all times, especially when they’re discussing topics that are close to their heart.

So go easy on anyone calling you misogynistic, they probably don’t want to hurt you. It’s just easier sometimes to be blunt rather than get into the ins and outs of it.

A parallel would be something like if you had a mate that wasn’t Irish telling you all the ways that you are not a “real” Irish person, telling you how Irish people should act and telling you what Irish people should and should not be allowed to do. How much heed would you give them?

I dont reply I leave it there, I know its a tough issue so I dont post on my page about it as I dont want to fall out with people over their beliefs, would be like falling out with a person because they support a different football club!

Ave Sodalis

whisky_galore wrote: »

Jesus.

Reds under the bed style paranoia here.

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

This is another thing both sides accusing each other of under handed tactics.....This girl is not pro-choice or a fake etc shes a friend of a friend with all the bells and whistles on her fb profile.

Actually, as I said, pro-life have been caught doing this. As in, they have already done this and have been found out. In fact, most of the start of their campaign was under hand tactics like this, which they were then caught doing. It's not tin foil hat stuff. Pretending to be pro-choice and saying men don't have an opinion on this so vote yes is the exact thing they did that was picked up internationally.


I am very sorry someone said that to you. It is not the stance of pro-choice at all.

Iseedeadpixels

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Actually, as I said, pro-life have been caught doing this. As in, they have already done this and have been found out. In fact, most of the start of their campaign was under hand tactics like this, which they were then caught doing. It's not tin foil hat stuff. Pretending to be pro-choice and saying men don't have an opinion on this so vote yes is the exact thing they did that was picked up internationally.


I am very sorry someone said that to you. It is not the stance of pro-choice at all.

You dont need to apologize for a angry randomer I'd vote yes regardless, I voted yes in the marriage ref as well even though it will never effect me much like this one.

whisky_galore

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Actually, as I said, pro-life have been caught doing this. As in, they have already done this and have been found out. In fact, most of the start of their campaign was under hand tactics like this, which they were then caught doing. It's not tin foil hat stuff. Pretending to be pro-choice and saying men don't have an opinion on this so vote yes is the exact thing they did that was picked up internationally.


I am very sorry someone said that to you. It is not the stance of pro-choice at all.

Of course ye would never do that....

Cabaal

Noveight wrote: »

Why start a thread on your lack of interest in something..?

Attention....

I have zero interest in football, its talked about all the time on Facebook, radio, TV and it seems extremely important to people.

Funny thing, I don't start threads about it.


As for this ref, I'll be voting, but for anyone that doesn't that's fine... But expect anyone to listen to you if you can't be arsed to educate yourself and get out and vote.

People died for the right to vote and those that refuse to do so show a lack of respect for such an important right.

Ave Sodalis

whisky_galore wrote: »

Of course ye would never do that....

Please stop. This is the third sarky comment you've made to me. You've been called out on the other two, and yet you continue to do it.

SusieBlue

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Well, the 8th had nothing to do with Savita's tragic death. Her consultant stressed all along that had she made aware of Savita's vitals and other symptoms such as foul smelling discharge, she would have ordered an abortion sooner without hesitation. Indeed, within an hour of being made aware of these details an abortion was ordered. The 8th dis not in any way hinder Savita's care. Mismanagement and failure of her medical team to communicate adequately is what caused her sad and untimely death.

Savita didn't want an abortion, she wanted a baby.
Her sepsis was caused by her miscarriage. Her request for an abortion earlier in the week to speed up the inevitable miscarriage was denied.
If she had been given an abortion when she asked for one, she would never have died, and we would never have heard of her.
Her father and husband both hold they 8th responsible.

Saying the 8th had nothing to do with it is disingenuous at best. I can see why you might not agree that it was totally responsible for her death, which is fair enough.
But saying it had absolutely nothing to do with it is preposterous.

professore

freshpopcorn wrote: »

A guy I was really good friends with in school listened to stuff online and posters and decided to show compassion to woman(mainly his girlfriend) he put a 'Together For Yes' banner on his Facebook profile. It was then he learnt she was pro-life. Poor lad didn't know what to do.

I would say there are more "pro-life" women than men. Another media myth that all women are pro choice.

Graces7

Cabaal wrote: »

Attention....


People died for the right to vote and those that refuse to do so show a lack of respect for such an important right.

May I make a small correction here? For the RIGHT to vote, not to be compelled to do so. That would negate the privilege of voting. Actually far more respectful than feeling dragooned into it

Graces7

SusieBlue wrote: »

Savita didn't want an abortion, she wanted a baby.
Her sepsis was caused by her miscarriage. Her request for an abortion earlier in the week to speed up the inevitable miscarriage was denied.
If she had been given an abortion when she asked for one, she would never have died, and we would never have heard of her.
Her father and husband both hold they 8th responsible.

Saying the 8th had nothing to do with it is disingenuous at best. I can see why you might not agree that it was totally responsible for her death, which is fair enough.
But saying it had absolutely nothing to do with it is preposterous.

Read the inquiry? Medical negligence.

SusieBlue

Graces7 wrote: »

Read the inquiry? Medical negligence.

I have read it.
If she had been given the abortion when she requested it, the situation wouldn't have progressed to the point where the medical negligence occurred.

She knew her baby was dying and couldn't be saved for a whole week. There was no need to prolong the agony. There was no need for the miscarriage to turn into sepsis. If she had been granted her request when she first made it, none of this would have happened, and that can't be argued.

I accept that there was medical negligence at play but the 8th also had a significant hand in her death. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

PhoenixParker

Graces7 wrote: »

Read the inquiry? Medical negligence.

Read the quotes from the guy who ran the medical inquiry where he specifically states the 8th was responsible.

Zubeneschamali

Graces7 wrote: »

Read the inquiry? Medical negligence.

Suppose we had a Constitutional provision, the 99th amendment, that says people can't have antibiotics unless their life is in danger, not just their health.

So you head for A&E and they diagnose a chest infection. You ask whats the treatment, they say antibiotics. Have a seat there and we'll monitor you until your life is in danger, and then treat you. You say "Can I have the treatment now please?" and they say no.

Then, during the night, they screw up, they don't monitor you closely enough and you die. The official report says medical negligence because they screwed up.

But everyone can see that the real cause is the 99th amendment, and that you would not be dead in England or in India where the 99th does not tie doctors hands.

Neyite

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Well, the 8th had nothing to do with Savita's tragic death. Her consultant stressed all along that had she made aware of Savita's vitals and other symptoms such as foul smelling discharge, she would have ordered an abortion sooner without hesitation. Indeed, within an hour of being made aware of these details an abortion was ordered. The 8th dis not in any way hinder Savita's care. Mismanagement and failure of her medical team to communicate adequately is what caused her sad and untimely death.

They didn't change their policies or procedures though because she died in that hospital at the end of October and in early February after that I went to that very same hospital with a miscarriage.

I was firstly told that I had to wait 8 days when I rang them the first day of bleeding because it was policy - as in, by that stage I'd have either miscarried or bleeding stopped.

Then when I did attend that appointment, I was given a urine test. And that was it. No scan. No physical exam whatsoever. Another policy.

When I asked about the miscarriage process and how I would know what was normal and what wasn't, I was told by the doctor "to keep an eye on it" - exact quote. When I asked "keep an eye on what, specifically" I was told if I got a foul odour to come in to them. When I asked would sepsis cause a foul odour she confirmed that yes it would. She also confirmed for me that by the time I'd be smelling it off myself from an internal infection, it'd be a bit too late. Then she shrugged and left the room.

I was not told about what level of pain or bleeding is within a normal range. I was not told how long I would typically bleed for, or what might indicate a complication. I was not told a fcuking thing. I was told they 'don't do testing' when I asked about finding out if this was something chromosomal or genetic. It's "policy".

It's ironic that I got far more information and advice on my miscarriages here on Boards where medical advice is forbidden than I did from my own hospital.

Their skittishness of the vagueness of the 8th forces doctors and midwives to steer clear of anything in pregnancy in the pre-viability stage that may touch on a patient asking for information on abortion or requesting a medically managed miscarriage so they don't offer a sweeping area of pre-natal care that's routine in other countries. They ignore us, or do the barest minimum of checks and hope we go away and hope that nature takes care of it. Most of the time it does, but in Savita's case it did not. And they failed her.

In the UK or the US or Eastern Europe, I would have received very different treatment for active prevention of the subsequent miscarriages I went on to have -it's standard there and very often successful. And I think about that every time I look at my only child or when I see family announce another pregnancy.

So remember all wanted babies - including my four lost due to HSE ante-natal policies based on the 8th, when you are ticking the box to save the 8th on May 25th.