14 yr old girl - what to do

clint_silver

14 yr old girl, very sporty, determined.

All the girls like her on her team but she wont go to social nights.

Very few friends, wont go to discos, wont speak up in class, shakes in fear at speaking in front of them when has assignment. Was always quiet but its getting worse if thats the way of describing it. I see clusters of girls on her team pal together but she excludes herself.

Is this anxiousness? Anxiety? Sat down and chatted with her to see what she sees as problem but get the stock answer "I just dont want to" reply when theres something coming up she might want to go to.

how to address?

shesty

I was that girl.
So with that in mind, I'd say leave her alone.
She's 14.Why on earth are you pressurising her to go to discos etc??It's tough being 14, just kind of emerging into "growing up"....and by that I mean, the makeup, the clothes, the peer pressure, finding your feet with boys, maybe trying to be like everyone else while feeling just.... not like everyone else - and without feeling you are somehow not what your parents want you to be.She may just be a quiet person, and she will get there in her own time, believe me.
As for the speaking up in class, I was also that girl.I used to go in in terror at group assignments, presentations, reading aloud etc.As I went up through school, particularly in senior cycle, I got a bit better, or at least came to the realisation that it only lasted for a few mins and that was it, and I could cope.I also got to a point where although teachers always said I was quiet, it wasn't from fear....it was often more from not really having any questions, or need to speak up constantly.But it came with age.
I know you probably just want her to fit in.and have fun, but maybe ease up.My parents never really pushed me on this stuff, but I used to feel desperately sorry for friends or peers whose parents were constantly at them asking would they not go to this disco, did they like that boy, did they have a boyfriend etc.....always in a crowded room or gathering, creating an unbelievably embarassing situation for the teenager in an effort to.....well, I don't know why they ever did it.Just ease off her, 'I just don't want to' stands for a myriad of reasons that she probably can't articulate or is too embarassed to say to you, she has years ahead of her for this stuff.

clint_silver

shesty wrote: »

I was that girl.
So with that in mind, I'd say leave her alone.
She's 14.Why on earth are you pressurising her to go to discos etc??It's tough being 14, just kind of emerging into "growing up"....and by that I mean, the makeup, the clothes, the peer pressure, finding your feet with boys, maybe trying to be like everyone else while feeling just.... not like everyone else - and without feeling you are somehow not what your parents want you to be.She may just be a quiet person, and she will get there in her own time, believe me.
As for the speaking up in class, I was also that girl.I used to go in in terror at group assignments, presentations, reading aloud etc.As I went up through school, particularly in senior cycle, I got a bit better, or at least came to the realisation that it only lasted for a few mins and that was it, and I could cope.I also got to a point where although teachers always said I was quiet, it wasn't from fear....it was often more from not really having any questions, or need to speak up constantly.But it came with age.
I know you probably just want her to fit in.and have fun, but maybe ease up.My parents never really pushed me on this stuff, but I used to feel desperately sorry for friends or peers whose parents were constantly at them asking would they not go to this disco, did they like that boy, did they have a boyfriend etc.....always in a crowded room or gathering, creating an unbelievably embarassing situation for the teenager in an effort to.....well, I don't know why they ever did it.Just ease off her, 'I just don't want to' stands for a myriad of reasons that she probably can't articulate or is too embarassed to say to you, she has years ahead of her for this stuff.

Theres no pressure,
"do you want to go, all the others are going"
"no"
"ok, any reason why".
"no"
"ok"


Seeing her being anxious at home when she knows she has a school assignment that involves talking to class is something I want to reduce, not so much that I need to see her going to discos. There's no pressure from parents there, maybe we're just noticing it as part of an overall anxiety in her.


Is schools getting them to do that normal? Do they care if child is anxious and doesnt want to do it as opposed to a work ethic (which is a different thing)? Should we be letting them know?

Subtle

Will probably get shot for suggesting this, but is it possible that her anxieties stem from her parenting and perhaps her parents expectations?

Just throwing it in there because I've come across very shy or anxious kids in the past and it's clear when you meet the parents why they are that way. I don't mean bad parenting here but just well-intentioned, albeit misguided stuff.

shesty

clint_silver wrote: »

Theres no pressure,
"do you want to go, all the others are going"
"no"
"ok, any reason why".
"no"
"ok"


Seeing her being anxious at home when she knows she has a school assignment that involves talking to class is something I want to reduce, not so much that I need to see her going to discos. There's no pressure from parents there, maybe we're just noticing it as part of an overall anxiety in her.


Is schools getting them to do that normal? Do they care if child is anxious and doesnt want to do it as opposed to a work ethic (which is a different thing)? Should we be letting them know?

I would imagine the school's response would be that it's part of their education. My work ethic wasn't an issue, but there is nobody out there that doesn't get anxious about speaking out or whatever. You would probably be better to teach her coping skills rather than trying to shield her from things - this is a life skill, no matter what.She probably is already doing this, but teach her ways to manage the nerves....be well prepared, have easy referenced notes or slides, let her practice with you, and know that it's ok not to have all the answers on the spot, but to say "I can check that and let you know".She is still young though - age helps. At some point you have to stand back and let her learn to cope, with your help, rather than trying to make it all go away.

Yourmama

clint_silver wrote:

how to address?

Don't. I was like this and I can see my daughter, now 5, will be the same. 30% of population is considered to be introvert and that's natural.

clint_silver

Subtle wrote: »

Will probably get shot for suggesting this, but is it possible that her anxieties stem from her parenting and perhaps her parents expectations?

Just throwing it in there because I've come across very shy or anxious kids in the past and it's clear when you meet the parents why they are that way. I don't mean bad parenting here but just well-intentioned, albeit misguided stuff.

couldnt be us, we're perfect parents :D

nah, you can say whatever you want, I mean it could be us, who knows?

How do you identify root cause though? Do you leave her alone and hope she comes through the anxiety? Will the anxiety get worse, would it help if she spoke to someone else, would I be being pushy if I insisted she did if she didnt want to (probably)? Im sure its no fun for her to be shaking with fear the days and nights before speaking to a class.

Im kind of asking "is that ok to be like that or is there any simple tricks to get her over that"

just had a read of
https://www.heysigmund.com/anxiety-in-teens/

All posts are welcome, dont be afraid to say anything, I wont shoot anyone down.

clint_silver

Yourmama wrote: »

Don't. I was like this and I can see my daughter, now 5, will be the same. 30% of population is considered to be introvert and that's natural.

but if 30% are introvert, I wouldnt disagree with that, I was myself, and theyre at home shaking with fear about speaking in class, is giving them an assignment to speak in class really the way to get them over it? (maybe it is, I dunno)

shesty

But see the aim isn't really to get them over the anxiety, it's more to give them the experience to learn how to cope.
In all honesty, I was the same, as were all members of my family.But my parents helped us by trying to give us ways to cope, and trying to give us the confidence to know we could get through it, no matter how nervous we were.Seriously, that will stand to her far more than going in and asking the teacher to stop giving the assignments because they are scaring her.I am sure most other kids in the class are in the same state,but all deal with it differently.
Talk to the teacher maybe, and ask them is there anything you can do to help her out, but don't take the approach of trying to shield her from it.And honestly, age helps!

K_P

I was definitely the same at that age. Public speaking and presenting an assignment in class was definitely not a thing in my school. I went to college along with every other school leaver sitting mute in classes, terrified to ask a question, give an opinion, petrified I would be noticed. It took me a long time to get over that fear, well into my career and I wish now that I had just gotten over my own insecurities earlier.

Public speaking is a part of life for many people and if schools are instilling this into people and getting them used to it, that can only be a good thing. I totally understand that you hate seeing your daughter afraid of something. But it's not something that's going to harm her and running away from it isn't going to help her in any way. I would see that as part of her education, giving her life skills beyond regurgitating French verbs or an Irish essay learned off by heart on "na drugai"

sbsquarepants

Does she seem bothered by it or are you bothered on her behalf?

Personally speaking, I'm not anxious in any way, I have no trouble talking to people or being sociable - but I very much dislike large groups, always have,
I'd be far happier either on my own or in the company of 1 or 2 others than be one of 20. I'm often asked to go off to see matches or the likes - "will be deadly craic there's 35 of us going" I just make my excuses and politely decline - truth is I can't think of anything I'd less rather do with my weekend or my hard earned cash.

It's quite possible your daughter isn't doing these things because she just genuinely doesn't want to, rather than she'd love to but somehow can't. People are different and she's only just discovering who she is. I'd leave her be - make sure she knows she can come to you if she has a problem and then just give her the space to become who she should become.

Teyla Emmagan

I wouldn't worry. Not yet anyway. She sounds fine. Everyone (virtually) is afraid of standing up in front of a group at that age. She will start going out when she wants to, or she won't, which is also fine. As long as she seems happy I wouldn't be concerned. We are not all sociable.

What sport is she involved in? Is there a summer course or something in it you could send her on to encourage her? Good for the self esteem. Great that she is involved in and happy to participate in something anyway, that's half the battle.

clint_silver

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Does she seem bothered by it or are you bothered on her behalf?

Good question. Shes always been like this, a nail biter, other symptoms that would indicate anxiety but we leave her alone to develop. She'll find her own way kind of thing as suggested here.

The school assignment thing has probably pushed me over the edge of thinking "should I be doing something here".

Im no expert but it would seem to be that we should have gotten past the "oh just do it and youll be fine" way of teaching. Shes had a couple of these before and its been the same but this one is now worse so now not only is the anxiety not getting better but now its making her way more unhappy than usual.

As an aside, why does the teacher get to say "youre DOING the assignment" and is a good teacher but if I said "youre GOING to the disco" Id be a bad parent, and I would be too. Id be of opinion its not good. There must be a better way.

sbsquarepants

It's a god awful age 14. I'd imagine probably even harder these days than in my time. Does she seem happy in general?

I thinks that's kind of the red light, you need to be watching for.

Someone liking being on their own, or being introverted is not necessarily a problem provided it isn't causing them one. I'm sure we've all heard far too many times about someone being depressed or even committing suicide and thinking "they always seemed so outgoing" as if extroverted automatically means happy, and by that logic introverted must mean unhappy.

Fear of public speaking is fairly common and there are proven methods for overcoming it if it gets to be a problem - but for now I'd be inclined to just let it play out, she may grow out of it, she's still a child really.

I know this much - she's going to develop her own way regardless at the end of anything you do, and one thing that's practically guaranteed to cause anxiety is pressure (however gentle and obviously well intentioned) from yourselves on her to be something she is not.

We have a very similar issue with a much younger girl and it has my missus quite worried (she's a lot more outgoing than me, but a worrier by nature) I'm inclined to just sit back and see does she grow out of it, and if she does she does and if she doesn't she doesn't (I'm reasonably introverted, but worry is an alien concept to me) What I'm trying to get at is we just are the way we are - the issue (with our own kid) is the same for both of us, but how we perceive it is chalk and cheese.

You could be looking at her life and thinking "if that was me I'd......" and that is completely irrelevant to how she sees it herself.

wildwillow

Speaking and making presentations in class is now a part of Junior cert English and some other subjects, so she will have to get used to it. Tell her to be well prepared and have good notes if they are allowed. Also tell her that most of the class suffers from the same anxiety and are too bothered with their own fears to be interested in hers.
I too was that person and grew out of it. I teach now and public speaking is not a problem. Practice is the only route to get used to it. But I am still anxious at social occasions and will shy away from some functions where I feel uncomfortable.
Maybe get her to rehearse with you or even encourage her to give the presentation to the dog or cat......anything to get used to the sound of her own voice and be comfortable with it.
She will gain self confidence from her sporting activity and will go to discos when she is ready.

shesty

It doesn't mean she's a good teacher, it just means it's part of the course.
I guess what I am thinking of are stories (and there are many in recent years) I have heard of college students whose parents are in interceding on their behalf because they failed an exam or were late with an assignment, or didn't like the subject or something, and the parent comes in to see can the college do something like pass them or move them or make allowances for them. I remember myself at that age, and as a fairly introverted person myself, I hated it.But....it was just life, like so many things are.And I remember at least one family member who used to be worse than me.I do understand what you are saying about the anxiety but teaching coping skills is better than taking away the problem.I mean, if she was 24 or something saying this, people wold be advising her to try to toastmasters or soemthing to practice it.She is still young but at some point she does have to face things that she doesn't enjoy.That's the point of any education, to stretch you so you learn.She will have to do orals etc for Leaving I presume, so it's coming her way no matter what, and you can't make them go away.

I really don't mean to be rude,and I'm not saying just ignore it -not by any means.I'd actually suggest you would be better to see if you can find a way to teach her a few skills to cope with the anxiety, because they are skills she will need for life.

Subtle

Catching up here a bit... There's been a lot of talk about anxiety. I would have expected the teacher of the class that she must make a presentation in to have addressed the topic of associated anxiety/fear etc. Surely that should be the real point of the exercise?

Anyway, if I were in the OPs situation, I'd rightfully or wrongfully be trying subtly to suss what's behind the anxiety and easing those fears / boosting their confidence like you would if dealing with an adult in the same situation.

RacoonQueen

Yourmama wrote: »

Don't. I was like this and I can see my daughter, now 5, will be the same. 30% of population is considered to be introvert and that's natural.

Was just going to say she sounds introverted. I was friendly with everyone when I was that age but had no real 'friends' I'd be meeting up with outside school etc..
Honestly wouldn't worry about her once she is interacting normally with them in school/activity situations - I never wanted to be out and about either. She's getting plenty of social output if doing sports etc

The anxiousness over presenting in class also sounds like a very introverted behaviour. I work in tech and a lot of us would be introverted and even in our 30s/40s we still wouldn't be into doing any of that. Wouldn't be anxious so much for a topic I was confident on I just don't have what I call the 'bullsh*tting gene' which extroverted people have which is vital for giving presentations

RacoonQueen

clint_silver wrote: »

but if 30% are introvert, I wouldnt disagree with that, I was myself, and theyre at home shaking with fear about speaking in class, is giving them an assignment to speak in class really the way to get them over it? (maybe it is, I dunno)

You were introverted? My mum still tells me stuff like this. Either you are or you aren't I don't think you can 'get rid' of it.

For what it is worth, I don't think making a kid who is introverted give a presentation in class is worthwhile. I have had to explain this to my manager in work, on more than on occasion. That my unwillingness to 'present' at company presentations is not something that will go away with 'practice' as he suggests. It is very much also a female trait from those I've talked to in work. We do presentations every week in work, with a different department doing it each week on the work they are doing. I think women have done this presentations 3 times in about 3 years of doing this. All have similar feelings towards it as I.
I would get anxious if my manager tried to force me to do it.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

clint_silver wrote: »

Good question. Shes always been like this, a nail biter, other symptoms that would indicate anxiety but we leave her alone to develop. She'll find her own way kind of thing as suggested here.

The school assignment thing has probably pushed me over the edge of thinking "should I be doing something here".

Im no expert but it would seem to be that we should have gotten past the "oh just do it and youll be fine" way of teaching. Shes had a couple of these before and its been the same but this one is now worse so now not only is the anxiety not getting better but now its making her way more unhappy than usual.

As an aside, why does the teacher get to say "youre DOING the assignment" and is a good teacher but if I said "youre GOING to the disco" Id be a bad parent, and I would be too. Id be of opinion its not good. There must be a better way.

Unfortunately this is the new junior cycle. Every subject will have CBAs , next year in 3rd year she will have even more. Second year ones don't really count, 3rd year ones do, so anxiety may increase.

Being introverted I wouldn't worry about. Being overly anxious or not able to manage stress , I would.

In SPHE they should learn about managing stress/ anxiety , however in my opinion it is something they need to learn at home.

Are you in dublin?
I saw a parenting talk advertised that deals with raising children who are very anxious.

GreeBo

I'm in my 40's and still crap myself when public speaking, my wife is the same age and does it all day everyday to anyone from Ministers to highflying CEOs without batting an eyelid.

The more she does it the easier it will be, but if she doesnt like it thats ok too.

You dont want to be forcing her to go out of her way to do things she doesnt want or have to do., but dont let her away with not doing school assignments that involve these things either!

The fact that she is sports and partinging in said sports (and popular!) leads me to think that you have nothing to worry about tbh.

RebelButtMunch

Have you looked into speaking with the school counselor? Or even a child psychologist? Perhaps cognitive behavioural therapy?

She may need some skills in her thought process and thinking about things. Sometimes these thing don't come naturally to everyone.

Sleeper12

RebelButtMunch wrote:

Have you looked into speaking with the school counselor? Or even a child psychologist? Perhaps cognitive behavioural therapy?

Autism is a possibility too. Schools don't always catch it. My son was in college and developed a stammer from the stress. It was only then that he was diagnosed with autism

ace_irl

One thing that really helped me when I was her age was acting classes (done for fun). They were extremely helpful with public speaking and really made me feel a lot more confident in front of people.

They were also great fun and with all the pressure put on young people these days it's great to have something that's purely about expressing yourself for the fun of it.

mirrorwall14

ace_irl wrote: »

One thing that really helped me when I was her age was acting classes (done for fun). They were extremely helpful with public speaking and really made me feel a lot more confident in front of people.

They were also great fun and with all the pressure put on young people these days it's great to have something that's purely about expressing yourself for the fun of it.

I would second the drama if she shows any interest at all. I was an exceptionally shy teenager but on stage got to be someone else. I got the lead in the school show in TY and it was the making of me.

I'm still introverted, make friends slowly and I do not like public speaking unless I know exactly what I'm talking about but I learnt to hide it. So well that a lot of the time people don't even realise unless they get to know me well. It also showed me I could be a teacher, that you can present well and teach without necessarily being outgoing.

These are skills that are super important for life and I would really encourage you (and her) to work on developing them. I spend a lot of time in Music working on the confidence of students. Literally starting with students saying their name out loud and confidently, and showing them that you can be outwardly confident even when very nervous. I don't succeed with every student but I do my damndest to send them out with the ability to present

The Wordress

I was that girl too. I always felt like the black sheep and that I was a square peg in a round hole. I still do but I'm a lot more confident now. I wouldn't say I'm an introvert but maybe an ambivert.

I don't think I spoke much through secondary school at all. I think the school just wanted to teach the curriculum and not the child. I was belittled by a few teachers because of it too.

I yearned for that positivity in my life. That person who was going to champion me.

I also never felt that I got on with girls much either which didn't help. I detest bitchiness and cliques and I never felt or wanted to be a part of them. I still don't.

I don't have any real advice but even if your child is anxious, make sure you champion her and champion her confidence.

Let her be who she is without feeling bad about herself or making her feel bad that she might not be Miss Popularity (not saying you are).

If you're close to Jisgaw, they do workshops, counselling sessions etc for teens with anxiety.

I went to a course recently and a massive teenage survey was done and 29% said that they didn't have 'One Good Adult' in their life, which is very sad.

Make sure you are that person who she turns to and can always trust.

Make sure too that there aren't other issues going on at school or on social media for her etc.

shesty

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I'm still introverted, make friends slowly and I do not like public speaking unless I know exactly what I'm talking about but I learnt to hide it. So well that a lot of the time people don't even realise unless they get to know me well. It also showed me I could be a teacher, that you can present well and teach without necessarily being outgoing

This is me.It became a large part of one of my jobs and have had to do it on and off ever since.I don't enjoy it, but I hide it.So much so that it actually stands to me when chairing meetings (something I don't enjoy at all), and in interviews, strangely enough.
Actually now you mention it mirrorwall, I play the piano and violin myself.I don't play publicly but I have definitely found over the years that playing one on one for a teacher in lessons, and odd examiners really helps develop an ability to cope with those kind of "performance" situations.It doesn't take the nerves away but it helps you learn techniques to fake it!! :-)

mirrorwall14

shesty wrote: »

This is me.It became a large part of one of my jobs and have had to do it on and off ever since.I don't enjoy it, but I hide it.So much so that it actually stands to me when chairing meetings (something I don't enjoy at all), and in interviews, strangely enough.
Actually now you mention it mirrorwall, I play the piano and violin myself.I don't play publicly but I have definitely found over the years that playing one on one for a teacher in lessons, and odd examiners really helps develop an ability to cope with those kind of "performance" situations.It doesn't take the nerves away but it helps you learn techniques to fake it!! :-)

Exactly. And yeah I do very well in interviews and meetings too. Its super funny, I could be freaking out about where to sit at a social event but I'll happily have a row at a meeting over something that I believe in.

Music was really good for that though as I explain to my students annually, I still have a tendency to "hide" behind the piano when organising events because I'm "safe" there in my own bubble. I always describe how weirded out I am to e centre of attention without that barrier

happywithlife

New junior cycle has introduced CBA's some of which require presentations to be made in front of peers - you can make teacher aware of her anxiety but chances are they are already aware. Can't not do them I'm afraid - on a side note as a teacher I think there's a whole cohert of parents in for a shock over the new few years as reality of the new Junior cycle is implemented.
If she's sporty would you encourage to take on coaching roles aimed at teens - she s a little young yet but I'm thinking of the young referee courses run in TY (round here anyway) and helping out at Cúl Camp etc. She probably needs to be at least 16 but down the road it might help improve her confidence and help her push her boundaries but in an area She s comfortable in

corks finest

Leave her be,get her into sports,she can interact on the field,same as my 15 yr old,he chats away on Xbox live,but we're out at sports ,5 days a week, Tae Kwon do,GAA, soccer,or watching same,I felt really bad for my kid , doesent go out on the street,but that's his personality,think if u get her really active she and you will be fine

clint_silver

thanks for all replies, theres an element of everything there.

Introversion is a perfectly normal character trait.
Anxiety is perfectly normal, it helps us cope.
Shes still very young. Has friends but not many, but thats ok. Doesnt go to discos but thats ok.
My biggest concern here is how anxious shes getting over the public speaking bit. As mentioned by many in here, as we age can deal with that internally, Id prefer for her to deal with it with coping mechanisms rather than trying to break through to the other side, which some of us never do.