Holocaust Denial [MOD NOTE POST #1]

Overheal

So, now that we’ve come full circle to the numbers and we discussed those at great length, does anyone have anything else constructive to add or have we finally reached a good point to close this convo and let the thread speak for itself in perpetuity?

martingriff

Banterbus28 wrote: »

Auschwitz-Birkenau
Majdanek
Chelmno

Were three other extermination camps.

Then you have the concentration camps in Germany itself thatbwere liquadated as the Allies drew nearer.

Dachau
Bergen-Belson
Buchenwald
Mauthasen
Ravensbrück
Theresianstadt

Then there's the dozens of satellite camps and laboir camps that served factories...

I am reading a book at the moment on the History of the Krupp company I am on the bit of WW2 and i can only read in short bursts with the level of description that is going on

martingriff

wexie wrote: »

Yet we're all wondering here quite what that 'point' might have been....

I have well reached my capacity for pigeon chess anyways.

I have pulled back from this thread as it was getting no where but have read now the whole thread and I still don't know if he/she only count those who are gassed as they were at the hands of the Nazi's and discounting those who dies of disease and malnutrition as they died of disease and malnutrition

dr.fuzzenstein

If Cheerful Spring went to court over this thread, this is what would happen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_v_Penguin_Books_Ltd

It really is this thread in a nutshell

Also

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2000/jan/26/irving.uk

Accused by the defendants of being "a liar and a falsifier of history", he depends on a 1988 report by a man called Fred Leuchter, who had taken samples from ruins at Auschwitz and concluded that there were never homicidal gas chambers there.

Prof van Pelt described crematorium two at Auschwitz - where he said 500,000 people had died - as the "absolute centre of the atrocity".

Evidence for the killings included blueprints for building works, the buildings themselves, and accounts of camp officials and sonderkommandos - Jewish prisoners who worked in the crematoria.

He said that when he first saw the surviving original blueprints, he saw not just documents but part of "a state sponsored project to kill Jews".

King Mob

I think Cheerful done a great job of demonstrating the levels of dishonesty and ignorance needed to be a full fledged holocaust denier.
He's also shown that the entire thing is not evidence driven, but agenda driven.

It's worth noting that neither he, nor any of the deniers who used the argument have not actually addressed my questions in the op.
But I guarantee and he and they will still use the myth that the death toll at Auschwitz used to be 4 million.

Chrongen

Is there any connection between the reduction in the Auschwitz numbers and the overall numbers?

Cheerful Spring

Chrongen wrote: »

Is there any connection between the reduction in the Auschwitz numbers and the overall numbers?

No the number of 6 million is based on the pre-war and post-war Jewish population in Europe.

The Jewish holocaust people claim only 3.8 million Jews were left in Europe in 1950 out of 9.4 million This stat of 3.8 million Jewish people is not historical it's claim made by a Holocaust researcher.

They also have not accounted for emigration post-war and pre-war and Jewish people in Eastern Europe who escaped. Poland had the highest concentration of Jewish people almost 4 million. Soviet Union documents released proved that Jews in the Soviet Union occupied Poland knew the fate awaiting them so they fled deeper into the Soviet Union to escape.

King Mob

Chrongen wrote: »

Is there any connection between the reduction in the Auschwitz numbers and the overall numbers?

No. Because again, the figure was never included in the total number of deaths.

The 6 million figure relies on a total of around 1 million deaths and has for a very long time.

This answer is clear and obvious if you actually Google it and read a break down of the figures.

The only other reason you would ask this question is if you think it's a good rethoric question that holocaust believers can't answer, and never actually cared about the response.

So which was it?
Didn't bother to Google?
Or racist propaganda speaking point?

dr.fuzzenstein

This thread has been going around in circles. Quite a few times.
I think all anyone needs to do is go back to the start again from here on.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

No the number of 6 million is based on the pre-war and post-war Jewish population in Europe.
.

Another lie. It's been pointed out to you repeatedly that this is not the sole source. You know it isn't.
Yet you have to lie about it.

Banterbus28

Cheerful spring you also realise that it wasn't just jewish people that were murdered?

mayordenis

Why is it that there are major misgivings around the amount of Jewish that died but none over the other reported death figures by country or ethnicity? Seems to be one major factor I suppose.

Igotadose

mayordenis wrote: »

Why is it that there are major misgivings around the amount of Jewish that died but none over the other reported death figures by country or ethnicity? Seems to be one major factor I suppose.

Antisemitism. It's what ties the deniers together.

Banterbus28

Going by the baselessness of the arguments posted I believe it's simple ignorance and the inability to see the counter argument and form an hypotheses based on evidence.

dr.fuzzenstein

It's simply Flat Earther mentality.
The very fact that some people state that the earth is flat and will not be swayed by any amount of evidence says it all.
I said "state" instead of "believe", because nobody, but nobody actually and seriously believes that the earth is flat.
A 5 year old wouldn't believe it. You'd have to have an IQ in single digits to believe it.
It's simple trolling, I will accept no other explanation on the subject.
Some people simply delight in winding other people up and even I invested time into debating with someone who isn't interested in debating, but simply wants to peddle an untenable viewpoint for his own amusement.

Igotadose

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's simply Flat Earther mentality.
The very fact that some people state that the earth is flat and will not be swayed by any amount of evidence says it all.
I said "state" instead of "believe", because nobody, but nobody actually and seriously believes that the earth is flat.
A 5 year old wouldn't believe it. You'd have to have an IQ in single digits to believe it.
It's simple trolling, I will accept no other explanation on the subject.
Some people simply delight in winding other people up and even I invested time into debating with someone who isn't interested in debating, but simply wants to peddle an untenable viewpoint for his own amusement.

With respect, as someone who has debated deniers on many forums for many years, I have to disagree. It's not just winding people up, at least not for the persistent ones. It really is about hating Jews and Judaism. Further, the funding of their *cough* intellectual sources *cough* is traceable to anti-Jewish regimes (think: Middle East), and the like.

The poster in question as I recall thinks 9/11 was a CIA event and it didn't happen.

It really is about rehabilitating Nazism. See what CS concluded? "They were all deported to Russia where they disappeared." "Nazis really didn't do this" etc. etc. Same old refrain, always ends up with the same conclusion - poor persecuted Nazis, this didn't happen.

Nizkor had a nice '66 questions about the Holocaust' that talked about how the numbers killed were reached, but I'm getting warnings about the site being infected via malware. Sigh.

Overheal

I think this is a good place to rest the discussion on the forum for a while. Interested parties can read through the thread; skeptics can remain skeptical but not seeing any good reason to turn this into a 10k post thread a la creationism v evolution which is what it seems like it would amount to for some.