Dee Forbes banging the RTE TV licence drum again 60m uncollected fee *poll not working - pl ignore*

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878025#Comment_121878025

There is a huge difference between an indie film and a soap opera. You'd have to look at C4's Brookside more so for that, also TG4 had already introduced a LGBQ+ central characters to its Ros Na Run long before Fair City.

This idea that broadcast was central to much of this is slightly misplaced or that it is the role of a PSB to do this. You'd imagine that in the US they needed PBS, when they were besotted by largely conservative TV from NCB, CBS and ABC, through out the 60s and 70s. I imagine you'd have to wait until the arrive of FOX (which is slightly ironic).

You also have to remember that Channel Sore wasn't mainstream when it first arrived, this changed with the arrival of EuroTrash!

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121876159#Comment_121876159

….Correct and right….

fuzzy dunlop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121880021#Comment_121880021

The difference between a soap opera and an Indie movie is only a category one. And this wasn't the only such movie that Channel 4 broadcast. It was one of the hallmarks of the channel.As far as movies went it was avant garde but how can you not say it was mainstream? There was a lot of family content that was hugely popular such as countdown and brookside that were instant success stories. The comic strip presents, The tube. These latter examples were entertainment staples for the younger generations in particular the punk and post punk scenes of the 80s. It wasn't exactly the dark web.In fact it was far from it. It was virtually impossible for it not to be mainstream when you only had six channels to choose from (4 in the UK) Documentaries like equinox and secret history would become groundbreaking.While After Dark was revolutionary. Reducing all of this to 'Eurotrash' is a huge disservice. The Word was another show which was hugely influential. Channel 4 revolutionised British and I would say Irish TV too. With regard to Irish TV I would say that Nighthawks in the Shows like 'Don't feed the gondolas' owe their formats to Channel 4 influence.

If I am reading the rest of what you write correctly then I would tend to agree. I don't believe it is broadcasters job to socially engineer a population one way or the other.But I noticed that Irish broadcasters had to semi-hide their 'Gay Kiss' on TG4 which tells its own story. But my basic point is that RTE whatever influence people think it had is incidental. Ireland was infused with popular culture from Britain and the USA for generations. Saying there was "no sex" in Ireland before RTE is like saying there was no cowboy films in Ireland before RTE. It doesn't stack up when you think about it.

fplfan12345

When is the next stage of this ‘investigation’ and what is that expected to be ?

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882120#Comment_121882120

How do you mean semi-hide? AFAIR it was on a beach and was part of an affair. Regardless of the Kiss two of the main characters were in a relationship for a number of years and one was taking care of his nephew.

I am not saying that C4's early years weren't influential but in fairness towards the start of the 1990s they started down the road of mainstreaming the channel. The difference between an Indie-film and a soap is that a soap is popular and largely well known.

I'd argue that "network 2" owes much of its programming to both BBC 2 and Channel 4, and had it been treated correctly may have been that broadcaster. The End, Nighthawks, Don't Feed The Gondolas, Monday Night Drama/comedies. And on. If you look at the cuts to RTÉ2 since 2006 you can see it is largely less than what it was back in 1978 when it started airing.

I always thought RTÉ should have decided that RTÉ2 should have been their independent production channel, with in-house programming on RTÉ ONE. This would have allowed for some competition between 2 different public service broadcasters even if only internally.

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882256#Comment_121882256

Governance reports from the Department. And I think a report from PAC. There are a few reports to come.

Employment at RTÉ is also a big issue, could cost them upwards of 30m at this point.

fuzzy dunlop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882581#Comment_121882581

The fact that they put it on TG4 and not inserted it into a story line on fair city is what I mean by semi-hiding it. Like what the BBC did with the Nolan Show i.e. choosing a relative back water to have a robust 'Trans' debate rather than doing it on BBC1. This is an old trick that politicians use. The Tory government did it in the early days of the peace process to communicate policy intentions to the IRA and Sinn Fein. In general I often thought that TG4 was more progressive, judging by their content. At least it seemed that way to me when I used to watch it. I was essentially forced to watch it because where I lived at the time in 2004 basically only had access to the terrestrial channels and no internet. Hard to believe now but the content was exceptionally good I thought. Plus I thought the content was heavily influenced (perhaps this was a debt of gratitude) by people like Mairtin O Cadhain and Tomas McGiolla probably through the organizations they help establish which eventually would help create and lobby for TG4. I thought the channel did more with less and RTE could learn lessons from it.

I know what an Indie film is and the difference between a soap. My point is that there was content on Channel 4 that pushed the envelope and it was widely watched. The soaps, no matter what or where you watched were more or less done by 8pm and what people watched after that was a lot more diverse.And this is where CH4 capitalized. For example I remember seeing part of a movie called "the fruit machine" back in the 80's and my father quickly changing the channel when he realized the way it was going. This was for my benefit as I was only 13 at time. But when I went into school the next day, the whole class had seen it all or part of it. Art house or not movies like these were widely seen in Ireland. I think RTE knew the writing was on the wall if they didn't compete. So they did.

Incidentally there is a similar debate ongoing in the UK around Channel 4. In essence the question being how channel 4 can do more with less.

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882855#Comment_121882855

RTÉ isn't TG4 and their only association with Ros Na Run was that it was created by 2 RTÉ producers in the early 1990s before the arrival of TnaG. RTÉ had nothing to do with "hiding" the story line, as they weren't involved, at the time RTÉ had two soaps of their own. TV3 had none and lack any real regulation to allow it to compete, perhaps they should have optioned a soap when they began.

My point is that C4 was "hiding" such "progressive" ideas via supporting an indie flick rather than via something like inserting it into a storyline in Brookside (not sure when Brookside tackled the issue, early 1990s?).

fuzzy dunlop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883239#Comment_121883239

So RTE is not TG4! Then why did you bring them up in defense of RTE? You responded to my posts where I was arguing that the role of RTE in liberalizing Ireland is a fallacious idea. The "Gay Kiss" that never happened in Fair City is evidence of an RTE that was basically sclerotic and lagging when it comes to that particular issue. The fact that TG4 did it is Kudos for TG4 while RTE agonized and bottled the so called "Gay Kiss" just shows how ineffective RTE are at this despite alll of the hype.I mean it was really old hat at this stage thanks to C4. And your point about C4 and Brookside is wrong.Apparently they were actually the first TV soap to broach this issue in as far back as 1982.Which would have been available to a huge amount of Irish viewers.They did it again with Anna Friel in the 90s So what is it again that were C4 hiding? They were the ones who commissioned My Beautiful Launderette and many other movies of similar content. The fact that they are Indie (Which is debatable) is irrelevant. The TV guides (Irish) were emblazoned with four and five stars for that particular movie and went on to win awards all over the English speaking world. It is frankly silly to suggest that C4 was doing anything other than trailblazing on this issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Collins_%28Brookside%29

https://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/eastenders/a860766/times-soaps-broke-lgbtq-ground/

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883727#Comment_121883727

Sorry I wasn't aware of the character in Brookside, I unfortunately grew up in 2 TV land.

I am comparing TG4 to RTÉ as it is our other national public service broadcaster who has often been more "progressive" in its storytelling.

I'd argue that one of the reasons that RTÉ axed "Tolka Row" was due to the rural audience. "Tolka Row" would have had to have started to talk about marriage breakdown or infidelity as it went into its second decade on the air, later talking about single mothers and so on, it was easier to think that The Reardon's soft approach was breaking the boundaries. It's not until Glenroe that you have a divorcee in a series!

You have to remember for many in cable areas C4 was beginning to compete with satellite TV after only 5 or so years on the air. C4 was at the time a non-mainstream channel.

Either way this is just academic, while RTÉ may not have been very progressive they were not making much head way in other areas of TV production either.

RoTelly

Someone messaged me about a post in the Tubs thread and I am sure I have posted this story before, the post in the Tubs tread was just to point out how you can use a death to deflect on other issues. I have taken the name of the personality that died out of this post but you can find out who it was yourself.

It is relevant here to show how RTÉ throw money around.

______________

I FoI'd RTÉ a few years back on their executives expenses, they published them back in 2009, so I FoI them twice asking for the same details. I passed this on to the Sunday Time who published them 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rte-news-chiefs-22-500-air-fare-bill-in-four-years-jvbdf78vn

In 2020 the executives board expenses went down to 20K, but within that Jon Williams (MD News) took most of the expenses, but in the FoI RTÉ pointed out that he had been given return flights to NYC. This was agree as part of his pay package, because he is on the board of a NGO called Committee to Protect Journalists, who meet quarterly in NYC, Jon had worked for ABC in NYC before taking up the role in RTÉ.

He attended all of those meetings in person in NYC, during his time in RTÉ, but of course 2020 covid hit meaning these meeting don't go ahead in person but RTÉ had already paid in advance for his trips to NYC and couldn't get a refund for those cancelled trips, however he did go on the first trip of the year to the meeting but he cut the it short to return home for the funeral of a recently deceased colleague and well known personality. (they really wanted to make it clear why he returned.)

Expenses paid to the RTÉ Executive board 2011 to 2020:-

• 2011 - €24,233
• 2012 - €41,687
• 2013 - €58,221
• 2014 - €64,547
• 2015 - €77,666
• 2016 - €62,810
• 2017 - €56,895
• 2018 - €53,912
• 2019 - €59,726
• 2020 - €20,708

These figures don't include the car allowance given to executives at RTÉ, nor the barter account (In 2016 Dee Forbes also got a €50k moving fee, this is not included in this list). They gave me a full breakdown of the expenses (flights, entertainment, taxis etc and the position of the person who claimed the expenses) and the obvious question was why, how and where did the head of news fly to in 2020? The responded said: flights cancelled, no refund and he'd returned home early on the first trip to attend the Funeral, RTÉ paid for this return trip, with no refund for the return trip he should have made.

Jon left RTÉ in 2022, potential using the 2021 exit package!

Cluedo Monopoly

Congrats to Dee!

https://twitter.com/DrHaroldNews/status/1766866270975111430

RoTelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121890621#Comment_121890621

I was sure Jim Jenning would have one that for "I got out just in time"

Baba Yaga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121890621#Comment_121890621

has she been spotted out and about anywhere? its like wheres waldo at this stage!

Rubberchikken

Isn't she British? Maybe she returned to uk.

Possible interview with tubs 😄😄 in her future😁

This woman is never going to answer for her actions.

Rte isn't willing to go to AGS and make a complaint. Big can of worms there.

The gov hasn't the cojones 🙄

Bob Marley Park

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893882#Comment_121893882

because they'd need go after Coveney too.

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864644#Comment_121864644

+1 UK television gave a window to the world that previously didnt exist. RTE lagged way behind it in terms of social progression. Channel 4, even though it didnt appear until the early 80s had much much nore influence on social change than the LLS.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121894074#Comment_121894074

Could, But they didn't! Only 20,000 TV sets in 1959, mostly in Dublin so that influence was minimal. Most people in Ireland didn't get BBC TV not to talk of Channel 4 in the 60s and 70s.

alzer100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893882#Comment_121893882

I think the Rose of Tralee might get upset if Tubridy was meeting an old flame in Co. London.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893882#Comment_121893882

Born in Cork from her Wikipedia bio.

Regards...jmcc

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121894471#Comment_121894471

I disagree. I lived thru the 70s and 80s. Everyone watched British TV. Cable tv was the norm in urban areas. RTE was regarded as amateur hour stuff in comparison to BBC and ITV/Ch4. By the time we got to the early 80s, we had 'satellite channels' via cable including MTV, Sky (when it was still Dutch owned) etc. In fact Ireland had the highest % of viewers with access to these channels than anywhere else in Europe as UK and mainland Europe were still very much reliant on terrestrial TV, whereas cable was the norm in Ireland.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895924#Comment_121895924

When you say urban, are we talking about east coast?

I ask because reception was very patchy inland, we were west of the black stairs mountains and it was mostly static we got, whereas the cousins in Wexford had good reception.

I think the belief that the UK channels were in most homes in the 80s is perhaps a very easy coast centric view.

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895940#Comment_121895940

Reception was irrelevant as terrestrial TV was not the norm. Dublin was cabled from 60s onwards. Originally there were local cable schemes in each part if the city, but they were consolidated into "Cablelink" after a few years. When my household first got it, the cable came from a dish/aerial thing on a local tall building. It was then replaced by "Cablelink". The Cablelink signal came from some sort of dish on the top of one of the Ballymun flats. Houses were cabled.

In smaller towns around the country they had "deflector" schemes. Some sort of dish or large aerial on the top of a mountain and the signal "re-broadcasted" to homes which had a particular type of aerial that was provided by the deflector company.

Im not technical , so the above are laymans descriptions.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895980#Comment_121895980

Thanks for that clarification. We had none of that growing up. Tall aerials was the most common way of receiving signal around me, very few had a good signal. If I remember correctly damp weather meant good reception, good dry weather meant static.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895980#Comment_121895980

Also known as "The pipe". I remember when Sky came on and another channel called Super channel. It went from Cablelink to NTL to Virgin.

RoTelly

From the 1970s (even the 1960s) Dublin was a hodge podge of cable companies providing access to BBC 1, 2, UTV and in some cases also HTV (Channel 4 starts broadcasting in 1982). This hodge podge includes RTÉ's RTÉ Relays. In the 1980s many would merge with their counterparts in Galway and Waterford to make up Cablelink, RTÉ and Rodgers of Canada owned this company initally until Rodgers discovered that the government weren't going to let Cablelink provide Telephony services due to the Telecom Éireann Monopoly. Rodgers would sell to Telecom Éireann and before the IPO of Eircom they would ask to sell their 75% of Cablelink, RTÉ would then be asked to sell their 25% share of Cablelink, earning them 300m from the sale to NTL.

NTL would later merge with Chorus becoming Chorus NTL and later rebrand as UPC and now known as Virgin Media.

Both BBC2 and C4 would have been consider the more "progressive" channels, both ITV and BBC would be regarded as move "conservative" in their output, both being far more popular than either BBC2 or C4.

MMDS and Deflectors all had a role in this in rural areas also.

RTÉ2 would carry many of the UK programmes also, though as I say I was surprised they didn't take EastEnders and Brookside on their arrival in the 1980s.

In other news

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/cash-strapped-rte-spend-15-32355618

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896033#Comment_121896033

1986 or 1987, Sky and Music Box / Childrens Channel. Then the latter was replaced with Super Channel in 1988. MTV came a bit later.

I remember being slightly horrified when visiting a relative's house in Dublin approx 1980 that they didn't have cable TV

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895940#Comment_121895940

It doesn't have to be received all over the country to have an influence, if it was influencing people in Dublin, they were writing in newspapers, writing books etc it was influencing the culture all over the country indirectly. It was indirectly affecting the TV RTE produced also.

Furze99

Oliver Callan this morning joking about RTE floats in parades with buckets of flip flops and Marty Party music.

I was thinking more along the lines of figures like former DG Dee, Tubridy etc. They'd be laughing their heads off hysterically and giving the two fingers to all the public as they cruise along. The latter of course would have rotten fruit and crap to throw at them! What's not to like?

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896140#Comment_121896140

Why are we paying the higher ups in there when they need someone else to tell them how to do their job?