How effective are Threshold and the PRTB?

griffincathal

Hi I was just wondering how effective are Threshold and the PRTB for defending tenants rights? Do they actually do they actually achieve what they are supposed to (mediating, advocating, successfully defending legal disputes) do they actually successfully defend the rights of tenants more often than not or are they just there to make it appear like tenants have backup but in reality don't really get the results?

spaceHopper

They are meant to be neutral and enforce the rules. In practice that is not the case, they will protect tenants from 90% of bad landlords where the LL may comply with a determination but they have very few powers to compel. If I ignore them what can they do they are so under resourced that they will really only go after the very bad / easy to win cases.

From a LL's prospective they are next to useless, if I had a bad tenant they might eventually after six months agree with an eviction order but they don't inforece them so I'd have to go to court as well to get them out.

Still having them there and a clear set of rules is a good start.

ELM327

They are too effective for tenants in the case of bad landlords and not effective at all for landlords in the case of bad tenants

l5auim2pjnt8qx

ELM327 wrote: »

They are too effective for tenants in the case of bad landlords and not effective at all for landlords in the case of bad tenants

I would agree this is most definitetly the case, so one can only wonder why is it that the landlord has to pay the €90 per tenant registration and not the other way around that tenants should or could have to pay the RTB registration of €90.

When the Landlords stop paying the registration fee for the RTB this will leave a hugh black hole in the coffers of the RTB ,and where are they going to look
for the funding for there resources government or tenant.?

griffincathal

ELM327 wrote: »

They are too effective for tenants in the case of bad landlords and not effective at all for landlords in the case of bad tenants

Thats fair. Either way a landlord isn't at risk of ending up homeless. If the tenant loses a dispute they are. I'd love landlords to get an idea of what it is like sleeping on the street in the rain and staying in hostels where people are injecting and smoking heroin in the same room as you which you're forced to inhale. Getting your property robbed constantly. Teach them some much needed compassion and empathy and make them better people.

pc7

griffincathal wrote: »

Thats fair. Either way a landlord isn't at risk of ending up homeless.

Not true there are landlords out there who rented out their home, moved to cheaper rented accommodation (longer commutes) and now said tenants are over holding and they can't get rid. (I know of one such family, I doubt they are alone).
Over holding tenants put landlords at great risk and there isn't an iota of help anywhere for them even following the RTB steps.

l5auim2pjnt8qx

griffincathal wrote: »

Thats fair. Either way a landlord isn't at risk of ending up homeless. If the tenant loses a dispute they are. I'd love landlords to get an idea of what it is like sleeping on the street in the rain and staying in hostels where people are injecting and smoking heroin in the same room as you which you're forced to inhale. Getting your property robbed constantly. Teach them some much needed compassion and empathy and make them better people.[

Majority of Landlords have a mortage to pay on there rental property, if some scummy tenants insist on not paying there rent for a number of months with the agreement of Threshold - who do you think will be in more trouble with the banks? Tenants need to grow up and stop whinging has they probably have it better than other generations in regards to standards of property.

Can't affords to rent where you want then move further out , stop trying to come up with excuses not close enough to Mammy , don;t like the estate , travelling is to far .....Whinge Whinge Whinge.

Eric Cartman

griffincathal wrote: »

Thats fair. Either way a landlord isn't at risk of ending up homeless. If the tenant loses a dispute they are. I'd love landlords to get an idea of what it is like sleeping on the street in the rain and staying in hostels where people are injecting and smoking heroin in the same room as you which you're forced to inhale. Getting your property robbed constantly. Teach them some much needed compassion and empathy and make them better people.

when threshold tell a bum tenant to overhold rent for 6+ months on a landlord who's only other source of income is a pension or taxi driving and they still have to pay a mortgage, you may find that it certainly becomes a risk

amcalester

griffincathal wrote: »

Getting your property robbed constantly.

I'm interested in hearing what you think an over-holding tenant is doing to the landlord other than robbing him/her?

surrender monkey

Thats fair. Either way a landlord isn't at risk of ending up homeless. If the tenant loses a dispute they are. I'd love landlords to get an idea of what it is like sleeping on the street in the rain and staying in hostels where people are injecting and smoking heroin in the same room as you which you're forced to inhale. Getting your property robbed constantly. Teach them some much needed compassion and empathy and make them better people.[/quote]


Not true! I personally know of a landlord who had the misfortune of renting to a couple and their children who refused to pay rent when their rent allowance was cancelled because they were caught working. They didn't pay rent for over a year. They thrashed the apartment and overheld. The landlord had to go all the way to the circuit court as a lay litigant to enforce the determination order as they couldn't afford legal representation. The landlord in this case was a single parent who moved home to look after her elderly parents for a couple of years, far more vulnerable than a pair of lazy dishonest tenants. Just so you are aware a person who owns property is not entitled to any assistance from the state with regards to accomadation, homeless or otherwise regardless of the fact that they cannot live in the property. Those tenants near bankrupted that girl and even had the cheek to request their deposit back. How does that story fit in with your views on landlords? They aren't all rich property magnates some are just normal people trying to get ahead not all tenants are honest either !

4ensic15

griffincathal wrote: »

Hi I was just wondering how effective are Threshold and the PRTB for defending tenants rights? Do they actually do they actually achieve what they are supposed to (mediating, advocating, successfully defending legal disputes) do they actually successfully defend the rights of tenants more often than not or are they just there to make it appear like tenants have backup but in reality don't really get the results?

Threshold is a voluntary body which advises tenants. They help in some cases. The RTB is helpful to some tenants but having a body like it and the legislation it enforces is causing a lot of trouble. Rents are being forced up and up because of the RTB.

griffincathal

surrender monkey wrote: »

Thats fair. Either way a landlord isn't at risk of ending up homeless. If the tenant loses a dispute they are. I'd love landlords to get an idea of what it is like sleeping on the street in the rain and staying in hostels where people are injecting and smoking heroin in the same room as you which you're forced to inhale. Getting your property robbed constantly. Teach them some much needed compassion and empathy and make them better people.

Not true! I personally know of a landlord who had the misfortune of renting to a couple and their children who refused to pay rent when their rent allowance was cancelled because they were caught working. They didn't pay rent for over a year. They thrashed the apartment and overheld. The landlord had to go all the way to the circuit court as a lay litigant to enforce the determination order as they couldn't afford legal representation. The landlord in this case was a single parent who moved home to look after her elderly parents for a couple of years, far more vulnerable than a pair of lazy dishonest tenants. Just so you are aware a person who owns property is not entitled to any assistance from the state with regards to accomadation, homeless or otherwise regardless of the fact that they cannot live in the property. Those tenants near bankrupted that girl and even had the cheek to request their deposit back. How does that story fit in with your views on landlords? They aren't all rich property magnates some are just normal people trying to get ahead not all tenants are honest either ![/quote]

Yeah well that's only one example and its their fault for not weighing up the possible risks of their actions. They put themselves in that position and now THEY'RE whinging. Anyway they still aren't homeless are they?

But I do agree some tenants are just drunken scummy junky losers who essentially deserve to be homeless. Yeah but landlords still hold all the cards.

Everyone would be better off if landlords could simply develop a judge of character instead of being ****ty to everyone. Also they too blind to see that people have jobs and can't move further afield its alright if you're unemployed.

4ensic15

griffincathal wrote: »

Everyone would be better off if landlords could simply develop a judge of character instead of being ****ty to everyone. Also they too blind to see that people have jobs and can't move further afield its alright if you're unemployed.

Everyone would be better off if tenants could simply develop a judge of character instead of renting property from scumbags who charge too much, don't do maintenance and don't return deposits.

pc7

4ensic15 wrote: »

Everyone would be better off if tenants could simply develop a judge of character instead of renting property from scumbags who charge too much, don't do maintenance and don't return deposits.

But tenants have a right to reply and justice and large payouts st tunes when that happens. That’s what the RTB do.

surrender monkey

Griffincathal the tenants and their children ended up homeless because they wouldn't pay their rent. The landlord only made moves to take the house back when they stopped paying as they had living expenses, bills, mortgage, insurance, child care etc to pay. She didn't hold anycards at all in fact that person is down a hefty five figure sum. The tenants drew the whole process out till the very last minute and left the place in a pickle. God love their next landlords.

Blaming it on the person who was wronged is madness !

James 007

I'd hate to say it but if I was ever in that scenario I would of changed the locks and got it rented again. I would of preferred to face the 4 figure sum from the PRTB or courts. I know its not legal, but overholding a house or an apartment to me is illegal too, as is thrashing up a persons property.

GGTrek

4ensic15 wrote: »

griffincathal wrote: »

Hi I was just wondering how effective are Threshold and the PRTB for defending tenants rights? Do they actually do they actually achieve what they are supposed to (mediating, advocating, successfully defending legal disputes) do they actually successfully defend the rights of tenants more often than not or are they just there to make it appear like tenants have backup but in reality don't really get the results?

Threshold is a voluntary body which advises tenants. They help in some cases. The RTB is helpful to some tenants but having a body like it and the legislation it enforces is causing a lot of trouble. Rents are being forced up and up because of the RTB.

The OP is very confused and this is dangerous since Threshold is infiltrating the RTB. The RTB is a statutory body that should be completely impartial like a court of law (unfortunately their adjudicators tend to side with tenants if the landlord does not present a a very strong case).

Threshold is a private I repeat PRIVATE organization dedicated to lobbying the government in order to pursue a socialist anti-land Lord and pro tenant project! The situation at the moment is so fu...g bad that previous Theshold employees and managers are now RTB case officers (and a small bunch of RTB adjudicators were providing legal counselling to Theshold in the past). When you open an RTB dispute now you get an automatic choice of selecting a representative from Threshold. They are mostly responsible for advising Tenants to overhold any type of termination notice. This has become the national sport of tenants in Ireland and a massive cost for landlords which is reflected in a much diminished supply. I had the misfortune of meeting the Threshold representatives a couple of times at dispute hearings and they were totally out of their depth in legal terms (babbling and lying is the right word!) I had to tell one of this Threshold jokers this year to stop lying so blatantly and look at the evidence (he obviously did not read my submission!). In my 6 disputes so far the adjudicator when the situation turns bad for a tenant always tried to propose an agreement. 90% of my problem tenants have been long term tenants because they believed my property had become theirs and could behave as they liked until they got the termination notice to which they reacted with disdain and Threshold advised overholding. Most only perceived when receiving my RTB submission that their tenancy was over and sometimes only when the adjudicator told them to their face that the termination notices were valid and they had to vacate and it would be better for them to reach an agreement. Problem is the massive time I waste with preparing an adjudication and make time for the hearing which is unpaid

griffincathal

GGTrek wrote: »

The OP is very confused and this is dangerous since Threshold is infiltrating the RTB. The RTB is a statutory body that should be completely impartial like a court of law (unfortunately their adjudicators tend to side with tenants if the landlord does not present a a very strong case).

Threshold is a private I repeat PRIVATE organization dedicated to lobbying the government in order to pursue a socialist anti-land Lord and pro tenant project! The situation at the moment is so fu...g bad that previous Theshold employees and managers are now RTB case officers (and a small bunch of RTB adjudicators were providing legal counselling to Theshold in the past). When you open an RTB dispute now you get an automatic choice of selecting a representative from Threshold. They are mostly responsible for advising Tenants to overhold any type of termination notice. This has become the national sport of tenants in Ireland and a massive cost for landlords which is reflected in a much diminished supply. I had the misfortune of meeting the Threshold representatives a couple of times at dispute hearings and they were totally out of their depth in legal terms (babbling and lying is the right word!) I had to tell one of this Threshold jokers this year to stop lying so blatantly and look at the evidence (he obviously did not read my submission!). In my 6 disputes so far the adjudicator when the situation turns bad for a tenant always tried to propose an agreement. 90% of my problem tenants have been long term tenants because they believed my property had become theirs and could behave as they liked until they got the termination notice to which they reacted with disdain and Threshold advised overholding. Most only perceived when receiving my RTB submission that their tenancy was over and sometimes only when the adjudicator told them to their face that the termination notices were valid and they had to vacate and it would be better for them to reach an agreement. Problem is the massive time I waste with preparing an adjudication and make time for the hearing which is unpaid

Sounds like you're so governed by self interest than to be a decent person and use the immense power you have over people's lives for anything which can be considered good. That attitude will be the downfall of our society.

GGTrek

I believe I touched some sensibility of the OP. I am glad I did, this forum is not the Indo!

enricoh

griffincathal wrote: »

Sounds like you're so governed by self interest than to be a decent person and use the immense power you have over people's lives for anything which can be considered good. That attitude will be the downfall of our society.

Here mother theresa why don't you work your arse off to save a few quid and purchase a buy to let. And, you know, just give it to someone for as long as they want. Sod the self interest

GGTrek

enricoh wrote: »

griffincathal wrote: »

Sounds like you're so governed by self interest than to be a decent person and use the immense power you have over people's lives for anything which can be considered good. That attitude will be the downfall of our society.

Here mother theresa  why don't you work your arse off to save a few quid and purchase a buy to let. And, you know, just give it to someone for as long as they want. Sod the self interest

The OP was homeless for a period and has probably got some axe to grind, he/she probably did not get the Politically Correct answer he/she expected. As I said this forum is not an sold out Irish Media outlet following the govvie line and posters should expect a wide diversity of answers and opinions. This is the only reason I am still posting in this forum.

the_syco

James 007 wrote: »

I'd hate to say it but if I was ever in that scenario I would of changed the locks and got it rented again

I'd be site-banned if I said what I'd do :pac: but it seems paying the 5 figure sum may work out cheaper than not getting rent and refitting the house when they're gone.

griffincathal wrote: »

Sounds like you're so governed by self interest than to be a decent person and use the immense power you have over people's lives for anything which can be considered good. That attitude will be the downfall of our society.

The self interest of owning the fcuking house?

It seems you would support the idea of communism.

Graham

Mod Note

Keep it civil please folks.

The_Conductor

Guys- please stop referring to landlords or tenants in derogatory terms.
The forum is for the enjoyment of all- it is not acceptable to use terms such as 'scum', 'scumbags' etc- or to deliberately troll for effect by posting just to rile others.

The is an assumption that posters will be civil towards one another- and if they disagree with one another- refute the post *without attacking the poster*.

4ensic15

the_syco wrote: »

I'd be site-banned if I said what I'd do :pac: but it seems paying the 5 figure sum may work out cheaper than not getting rent and refitting the house when they're gone.


The self interest of owning the fcuking house?

It seems you would support the idea of communism.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/cork-mum-returned-home-school-12464458

Like this guy. What will it cost him?

griffincathal

4ensic15 wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/cork-mum-returned-home-school-12464458

Like this guy. What will it cost him?

If you own it fine. Just have it and do nothing with it. But when you start renting it to others it becomes THEIR homes that what you're getting rent for. You can't just do what you like with the property. Or are you just too selfish to realise that. Your attitude is why Threshold is so important and right. Because unfortunately people like you are all we have to work with for shelter.

Anyway you've answered my question loud and clear. They obviously really piss of you landlords so they must be doing something right.

4ensic15

griffincathal wrote: »

If you own it fine. Just have it and do nothing with it. But when you start renting it to others it becomes THEIR homes that what you're getting rent for. You can't just do what you like with the property. Or are you just too selfish to realise that. Your attitude is why Threshold is so important and right. Because unfortunately people like you are all we have to work with for shelter.

Anyway you've answered my question loud and clear. They obviously really piss of you landlords so they must be doing something right.

Threshold and the RTB had nothing to do with that situation.

Graces7

Eric Cartman wrote: »

when threshold tell a bum tenant to overhold rent for 6+ months on a landlord who's only other source of income is a pension or taxi driving and they still have to pay a mortgage, you may find that it certainly becomes a risk

I have never in all my years renting and getting support and excellent advice from Threshold, been advised to stop paying rent. quite the opposite in fact ..

l5auim2pjnt8qx

GGTrek wrote: »

The OP is very confused and this is dangerous since Threshold is infiltrating the RTB. The RTB is a statutory body that should be completely impartial like a court of law (unfortunately their adjudicators tend to side with tenants if the landlord does not present a a very strong case).

Threshold is a private I repeat PRIVATE organization dedicated to lobbying the government in order to pursue a socialist anti-land Lord and pro tenant project! The situation at the moment is so fu...g bad that previous Theshold employees and managers are now RTB case officers (and a small bunch of RTB adjudicators were providing legal counselling to Theshold in the past). When you open an RTB dispute now you get an automatic choice of selecting a representative from Threshold. They are mostly responsible for advising Tenants to overhold any type of termination notice. This has become the national sport of tenants in Ireland and a massive cost for landlords which is reflected in a much diminished supply. I had the misfortune of meeting the Threshold representatives a couple of times at dispute hearings and they were totally out of their depth in legal terms (babbling and lying is the right word!) I had to tell one of this Threshold jokers this year to stop lying so blatantly and look at the evidence (he obviously did not read my submission!). In my 6 disputes so far the adjudicator when the situation turns bad for a tenant always tried to propose an agreement. 90% of my problem tenants have been long term tenants because they believed my property had become theirs and could behave as they liked until they got the termination notice to which they reacted with disdain and Threshold advised overholding. Most only perceived when receiving my RTB submission that their tenancy was over and sometimes only when the adjudicator told them to their face that the termination notices were valid and they had to vacate and it would be better for them to reach an agreement. Problem is the massive time I waste with preparing an adjudication and make time for the hearing which is unpaid

If this is the case that the RTB are employing ex Threshold staff this is in direct conflict of the very foundation & principles of the RTB as this was meant
to be a platform of equal standing between Landlord & Tenant.

It's probably time for the Irishlandlord association of Ireland http://www.rlai.ie/ to start asking some serious questions, if this organisation is found to be corrupt and if is found to be corrupted a national boycott of the RTB should be called by all Landlords groups.

Is this the biggest quango this states has ever created.

How much money is it generating from Landlords at €90 per tenant ? it must
be 10's of millions ,where is the money going?

How many staff and how much is being paid out to them.

It would be helpful if someone had the figures on how many private rentals
are in the market and possibly how many tenants are registered.

griffincathal

Graces7 wrote: »

I have never in all my years renting and getting support and excellent advice from Threshold, been advised to stop paying rent. quite the opposite in fact ..

True in fact if they bothered to read the threshold website they would see it says it's illegal to withhold rent on the minimum standards page anyway if not others.

Graces7

griffincathal wrote: »

True in fact if they bothered to read the threshold website they would see it says it's illegal to withhold rent on the minimum standards page anyway if not others.

Thanks. I had a nightmare tenancy last time; . Threshold were so helpful and supportive and time and again advised me NOT to use the deposit as the last month's rent. NOT to stop paying rent.