Turning a house into a masionette

Gumbo

James 007 wrote: »

I'm only putting a kitchen in a box room, however the staircase to the attic will also need to be included, so I would think the fire cert will be required, I will check with building control.

Again, it depends on the wording of your planning application and if you are actually sub dividing the unit.

You cannot apply for a fire cert of a single dwelling residential unit so you need to be even more clear with exactly what you are doing.

Cuddlesworth

James 007 wrote: »

Has any person/landlord out there converted a first floor box room into a kitchen. I have put this up in the DIY section of boards but got little responses. The box room is currently a single bedroom and the room is located over the front door of the house.

The plan would be for me to take over the ground floor of the house giving me the front original sitting room as a bedroom, rear room is a family room leading out to the extended dining room and kitchen. I would already have a down stairs shower and toilet.

For the first floor the two large rooms would let out as one twin room and one double room or two twin rooms. The single box would be converted to a kitchen. Electric shower/bath tub/toilet already on the first floor and the attic would be used as a sitting room. Bills will be at a fixed rate.

What I would like to get is comments on how to run the water hot/cold to the box room for the sink, washing machine and also the drain run. Has anyone done this before. The room has a 4" vent on the wall for the cooker extract. Any thoughts welcome.

Seems like you could save yourself a lot of headache by dropping a dining room and use the front room as a second kitchen(downstairs) and the rear room as a bedroom, with the extended dining room and kitchen, being a sitting room and kitchen.

Gives a extra bedroom to rent too.

James 007

kceire wrote: »

Again, it depends on the wording of your planning application and if you are actually sub dividing the unit.

You cannot apply for a fire cert of a single dwelling residential unit so you need to be even more clear with exactly what you are doing.

All I will be doing is putting a kitchen in the box room at first floor level. The front door will be the common entrance for tenants and myself. So in theory, this would not be subdividing the house. In practice the tenants will reside upstairs and I will reside downstairs.

4ensic15

I know a guy who had a house in two flats. He turned it into 8 bedsitters and the neighbours complained to the corporation. He moved in to one bedsitter and argued that it was all one dwelling. The court wouldn't have any of it. It was held that each kitchen counted as one dwelling. He was made to take the whole lot out.

James 007

4ensic15 wrote: »

I know a guy who had a house in two flats. He turned it into 8 bedsitters and the neighbours complained to the corporation. He moved in to one bedsitter and argued that it was all one dwelling. The court wouldn't have any of it. It was held that each kitchen counted as one dwelling. He was made to take the whole lot out.

Thanks for that, as I said I have issue applying for planning permission so I would be doing this in the correct manner. With regards to the fire cert, do you think we need to make an application for this.

4ensic15

James 007 wrote: »

Thanks for that, as I said I have issue applying for planning permission so I would be doing this in the correct manner. With regards to the fire cert, do you think we need to make an application for this.

That generally wouldn't come up until after the planning process had started.

James 007

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Seems like you could save yourself a lot of headache by dropping a dining room and use the front room as a second kitchen(downstairs) and the rear room as a bedroom, with the extended dining room and kitchen, being a sitting room and kitchen.

Gives a extra bedroom to rent too.

I dont think you clearly understand the layout of the house. The rear room is connected to a dining room with a large wall ope (this is on the line of the rear wall to the house) which in turns connects into a kitchen. There would be no window if I closed up this large 2m wide ope.

4ensic15

4ensic15 wrote: »

I know a guy who had a house in two flats. He turned it into 8 bedsitters and the neighbours complained to the corporation. He moved in to one bedsitter and argued that it was all one dwelling. The court wouldn't have any of it. It was held that each kitchen counted as one dwelling. He was made to take the whole lot out.

Bedsits are illegal anyway and bare no resemblance whatsoever to the ops situation. He also doesn't need a fire cert and it's unlikely he needs planning either.

Claw Hammer

Achilles Uptight Thankfulness wrote: »

Bedsits are illegal anyway and bare no resemblance whatsoever to the ops situation. He also doesn't need a fire cert and it's unlikely he needs planning either.

Bedsits are not illegal. Where did you get that from? If he is using an attic he will certainly need a fire cert. The planning laws are clear also.

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Bedsits are not illegal. Where did you get that from? If he is using an attic he will certainly need a fire cert. The planning laws are clear also.

Fire certs don't apply to private residential houses afaik.

Claw Hammer

Achilles Uptight Thankfulness wrote: »

Fire certs don't apply to private residential houses afaik.

That is what you might think. In a 3 storey house there are fire regulations. Likewise with rented accommodation.

Gumbo

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Bedsits are not illegal. Where did you get that from? If he is using an attic he will certainly need a fire cert. The planning laws are clear also.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

That is what you might think. In a 3 storey house there are fire regulations. Likewise with rented accommodation.

He will not need a fire cert you are incorrect in saying he needs a fire cert for the attic use or 3 storey houses. There are fire regulations in one, 2 and 3 plus storey houses do what it’s worth.

My opinion is that planning will not be required in this instance.

James 007

This thread is more relevant to me now, as I now plan to move into my house in June of this year. I am now considering the following options, in order of preference:

1. Take the ground floor for myself, convert first floor single room to kitchen, please read my previous threads for this.

2. Put bedroom kitchenettes into all of the bedrooms (fridge/sink/2 induction hob/oven), I would like to hear other taughts on this one
https://www.google.ie/search?q=bedroom+kitchenette&sxsrf=ACYBGNRF8AcQOd37yDEnGV73kIOrbC7ZlA:1581097989294&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=qWNYuxgAckCamM%253A%252C2MG-Cb6wdvCviM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSKNmeDrX2fZfiNSWZZlPlUCv4k-Q&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi34IaAgcDnAhUvQRUIHaUvCXcQ9QEwC3oECAoQOw#imgrc=rKMoTE942KUSMM

3. Do no conversion and Airbnb for certain days of the year, first floor only all fitted out to suit. I would welcome taughts on this, house is 15-20min walk to the Dublin City Centre

4. Do no conversion and rent out only 2 double rooms, spec the rooms to get max. rent. I would be openingly sharing with 2-3 others.

5. Carry on renting it as is, try & find a decent 1 bed Apt for myself

Any taughts welcome

Samuel T. Cogley

Option 4 IMHO. Plenty of money to be made without the outlay and possibly bodged work. It's completely different sharing when you're the owner as it's your way or the highway.

Gumbo

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Option 4 IMHO. Plenty of money to be made without the outlay and possibly bodged work. It's completely different sharing when you're the owner as it's your way or the highway.

Agree.

Splitting upstairs/downstairs, ignoring the planning and fire regs, the person getting it, in the eyes of the RTB will be living in a self contained unit, therefore he can be construed as a tenant and will be afforded all the rights if a tenant.

quietsailor

Option 4 from me too. If you rent to someone you don't get on with they are licensees and cannot over hold. There isn't rules around renting to licencees but generally the notice period is the rent period - rent paid weekly means a weeks notice. From reading other threads on here make out a set of rules from the start so there is no confusion between ye. I rented digs in college from a widow and she set up a second sitting room so we could have time away from each other which was a nice touch - that could be your converted attic

If you live within an area college students rent in consider renting to
mature students from outside Dublin as they will be most likely going home a few times a semester plus they will most likely leave during summer rather than pay Dublin rents for three months of summer
masters students, particularly foreign ones as they will be in Ireland for a semester or two and will leave again

Another option you could advertise for is Sunday to Friday renting for someone working in Dublin but has family outside Dublin and needs to go home every/most weekends. Again it gives ye some time apart.

One final thing (I promise 😳) revenue considered any portions of bills paid as rental income against the €14,000 your allowed tax free. So don't set the rent as making you the €14,000 and then look for contributions on the bills as you'll be taxed on it all!

James 007

Okay you both have pointed out 3 problems to me:

1. Bodged Job - I am fairly DIY handy & would be reasonably confident that I could do a nice job. Elec/Plumbing I would leave to the professionals

2. RTB Issue - I have rented my house for the last 12 years approx. Not once have I had a RTB issue. The rental market I aim for is foreign students on a 9 month college term. Foreign students are a lot more sensible at 21-25 yrs of age than Irish. Rules will be written up regarding noise/no parties etc. The only problem tenant I had in the past was from Greece, worked for both NASA & the FBI, and used to pour yagermeister on the gas hobbs & nearly set the whole place on fire:D

3. Planning & Fire, this is my only concern really, no doubt the neighbouring house did not get planning either for it at a guess. Extra fire alarms will help & it probably wont be an issue unless an incident does happen.

Anyway thanks for the responses, lots to think about for the next few months.

quietsailor

Option three, the air bnb is not bad either, if you needed a break from people its a lot easier to just stop advertising rather than deal with terminating a licencee agreement. The downside is a lot of work having the house always spotless and having to really really vet your guests as you'll be in the house with them

James 007

quietsailor wrote: »

…………...If you live within an area college students rent in consider renting to mature students from outside Dublin as they will be most likely going home a few times a semester plus they will most likely leave during summer rather than pay Dublin rents for three months of summer masters students, particularly foreign ones as they will be in Ireland for a semester or two and will leave again

Another option you could advertise for is Sunday to Friday renting for someone working in Dublin but has family outside Dublin and needs to go home every/most weekends. Again it gives ye some time apart.
……………………………...

I only see your post now quietsailor. Yes, the Sunday to Friday is another option, but somehow I have a reluctance to rent to Irish students, maybe master students, but not degree orientated. Its something to think about too as an option though

the_syco

James 007 wrote: »

4. Do no conversion and rent out only 2 double rooms, spec the rooms to get max. rent. I would be openingly sharing with 2-3 others.

Make a list of rules that they have to agree to and sign for them to move in. Not a lease. Rent in your bank account by X date, otherwise they GTFO.

Also, you say 2-3. I'd advise 2 singles, with no couples allowed, and no couples allowed long term. 1 or two night a week, but would advise not to allow said nights to be in succession, or you could have be sharing the house with four people on your weekend.

I have lived in a house when the two roommates had their other halves over during the weekend the odd time, and it was cool, but crowded. But they had their own apartments, and wouldn't have them over every weekend. Have lived in another house, where one tenant would bring his gf over every weekend, as she lived with her parents. Can get old real quick.

Defining the rules from the beginning means that there's no animosity caused by you bringing in rules at a later stage; can be annoying if they're otherwise good tenants.

James 007

quietsailor wrote: »

Option three, the air bnb is not bad either, if you needed a break from people its a lot easier to just stop advertising rather than deal with terminating a licencee agreement. The downside is a lot of work having the house always spotless and having to really really vet your guests as you'll be in the house with them

Vetting the tenants is my main concern here, this is why I am reluctant to go the Airbnb route, unless anyone with years of experience could guide us a bit better.

The hard work would be okay, provided I had a good system in place for cleaning etc. Im not afraid of that.

James 007

the_syco wrote: »

Make a list of rules that they have to agree to and sign for them to move in. Not a lease. Rent in your bank account by X date, otherwise they GTFO.

Also, you say 2-3. I'd advise 2 singles, with no couples allowed, and no couples allowed long term. 1 or two night a week, but would advise not to allow said nights to be in succession, or you could have be sharing the house with four people on your weekend.

I have lived in a house when the two roommates had their other halves over during the weekend the odd time, and it was cool, but crowded. But they had their own apartments, and wouldn't have them over every weekend. Have lived in another house, where one tenant would bring his gf over every weekend, as she lived with her parents. Can get old real quick.

Defining the rules from the beginning means that there's no animosity caused by you bringing in rules at a later stage; can be annoying if they're otherwise good tenants.

This is why my preference is to have my own space, the whole ground floor. Yes, I can still put in place rules on a board in the kitchen area for all tenants to abide by but at least there is a level of separation between me and them.

the_syco

James 007 wrote: »

This is why my preference is to have my own space, the whole ground floor. Yes, I can still put in place rules on a board in the kitchen area for all tenants to abide by but at least there is a level of separation between me and them.

I fear that the separation between you and them would give them tenancy rights. It could be seen as a self-contained studio unit by the PTRB, meaning that when you try to kick them out for being an arse; you can't.

James 007

the_syco wrote: »

I fear that the separation between you and them would give them tenancy rights. It could be seen as a self-contained studio unit by the PTRB, meaning that when you try to kick them out for being an arse; you can't.

I'll be honest that is a chance that I would be willing to take, so vetting at the start is crucial. As I said already in post 78, I have had never an issue to date.

TSQ

James 007 wrote: »

Vetting the tenants is my main concern here, this is why I am reluctant to go the Airbnb route, unless anyone with years of experience could guide us a bit better.

The hard work would be okay, provided I had a good system in place for cleaning etc. Im not afraid of that.

You could choose to only take airbnb guests with at least 2 positive reviews from previous stays. Also, if you only take guests for a max of 1 or 2 weeks at least they will be moving on and not making your life miserable indefinitely. A friend does this and it works very well. The only problem she had was with a Couple who thought they could help themselves to everything in her fridge and tried to browbeat her with their demands. But sharing with a couple in your own home is not a good idea anyway.

TSQ

TSQ wrote: »

You could choose to only take airbnb guests with at least 2 positive reviews from previous stays. Also, if you only take guests for a max of 1 or 2 weeks at least they will be moving on and not making your life miserable indefinitely. A friend does this and it works very well. The only problem she had was with a Couple who thought they could help themselves to everything in her fridge and tried to browbeat her with their demands. But sharing with a couple in your own home is not a good idea anyway.

Sorry I can’t just highlight your last line TSQ on phone, but is that really true , not to rent to a couple if you’re a single woman (due to browbeating and demands ?) .
Would this also be something to consider with Airbnb ? (I’m planning on starting soon ). Genuine question .

James 007

TSQ wrote: »

You could choose to only take airbnb guests with at least 2 positive reviews from previous stays. Also, if you only take guests for a max of 1 or 2 weeks at least they will be moving on and not making your life miserable indefinitely. A friend does this and it works very well. The only problem she had was with a Couple who thought they could help themselves to everything in her fridge and tried to browbeat her with their demands. But sharing with a couple in your own home is not a good idea anyway.

Of course I could go with a combination of Option 1 & 3, Airbnb and let the guests have their own kitchen. This way I still get my own privacy & they do too. Both bedrooms would have to be done up to a very high standard.

James 007

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry I can’t just highlight your last line TSQ on phone, but is that really true , not to rent to a couple if you’re a single woman (due to browbeating and demands ?) .
Would this also be something to consider with Airbnb ? (I’m planning on starting soon ). Genuine question .

I would also be interested in those that have Airbnb'ed there homes out and have since tweaked their rules and vetting requirements.

James 007

So if I plan to have the ground floor for myself, I would like to have a set of house rules for the tenants on the first floor. So rather than taking up another persons post I will post them here for anyone to comment.

I'll start the first 10:
1. Heating is set from X to Y at a Temp of Z
2. No hogging the kitchen/dining area as an office, please use your desk/chair in your room for office/laptop periods
3. Peak morning shower time, 8 to 10am, max. usage time X mins
4. Peak evening cooking time, 6 to 9pm, max. usage time Y mins
5. No noise, loud music, parties in the house
6. No over-staying guests allowed in the house
7. No smoking in the house
8. Keep all communal areas clean
9. No hogging the washing machine/dryer, cycles to be taken in turns
10. Head phones to be used in conjunction with laptops at all times

I am open to having a certain flexibility around these, and happy not to ever enforce these, but if there is ever an issue, I would like to have some fall back of what was made visible at the very start.

James 007

Has anyone any other guidelines on preventing tenant confrontational issues, I would like to add to the previous list. I understand these can come across as rules but most likely if someone is making noise, I would only in a nice way mentioned it to them etc.