The mess on the Grand Canal

theyoungchap

I have never in my life witnessed anything like the mess on the Grand Canal after the weekend's fine weather.
The place looked like somewhere where rubbish was pushed into a dump.
What is it about Irish people that we can't seem to take our rubbish home with us, think it is OK to urinate in the canal (where swans, fish, etc make their home).
We must be the scummiest nation of people in Europe. What can we do to change this?
I personally favour :
1. A deposit on bottles, cans, etc.
2. An enforcement of the intoxicating liquor bye law (http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-recreation-culture/intoxicating-liquor-bye-laws)
but above all
3. People taking some responsiblity, bring it home with you.

It is not up to DCC to provide more bins, toilets etc - these people are breakin the law by drinking there in the first place. Let people drink and urinate in their back gardens all they want.

downtheroad

A deposit on bottles, cans, etc.
I was in Cologne recently and the deposit scheme there works fantastically well. I think it was €0.08 on glass bottles and €0.25 on plastic. People were sitting out enjoying beers along the river, and others were approaching them when they were finished with their bottles offering to take them away. Some enterprising folk had wagons or carts attached to their bicycles so they could collect large volumes of bottles. A negligible amount to pay for the deposit, but it offered an incentive for others to collect empty containers to be returned for cash.

heebusjeebus

It's not just Irish people making a mess of the place. Plenty of foreigners there too.
It was a disgrace though. Walking through yesterday morning and there was a smell of stale beer and p1ss. There are a load of bins there now so no excuse to be leaving rubbish on the banks and in the water.
Fair play to the council though as they had the power hose out cleaning the foothpaths around the square in Portobello.

theyoungchap

I've heard about the German system, sounds like it works well.
The rancid smell of stale beer and p1ss, we should probably be glad of today's rain.
I am sure there were plenty of foreigners there too but we shouldn't bring race into it - is it just a cultural thing that we (people living in Ireland) feel we don't have to clean up after ourselves? I have friends in Australia and if you bring it to the beach/park/etc you bring it back. Why don't we have a similar attitude here?
Do we just think litter is "sombody else's problem"?

theyoungchap

downtheroad wrote: »

A deposit on bottles, cans, etc.
I was in Cologne recently and the deposit scheme there works fantastically well. I think it was €0.08 on glass bottles and €0.25 on plastic. People were sitting out enjoying beers along the river, and others were approaching them when they were finished with their bottles offering to take them away. Some enterprising folk had wagons or carts attached to their bicycles so they could collect large volumes of bottles. A negligible amount to pay for the deposit, but it offered an incentive for others to collect empty containers to be returned for cash.

My cousin lives in Germany and says you'd never see a bottle on a street because if somebody threw one there, a homeless fellah would clean it up and get the deposit back.

heebusjeebus

theyoungchap wrote: »

I am sure there were plenty of foreigners there too but we shouldn't bring race into it - is it just a cultural thing that we (people living in Ireland) feel we don't have to clean up after ourselves? I have friends in Australia and if you bring it to the beach/park/etc you bring it back. Why don't we have a similar attitude here?

Well you started it by blaming the Irish exclusively.
I walk past the canal twice a day and I can be sure it's 50/50 Irish and non-irish.

I can understand the issue when the bins were overflowing a few weeks ago, but now with so many new bins there, it's ridiculous.

theyoungchap

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Well you started it by blaming the Irish exclusively.
I walk past the canal twice a day and I can be sure it's 50/50 Irish and non-irish.

I can understand the issue when the bins were overflowing a few weeks ago, but now with so many new bins there, it's ridiculous.

What I meant was, in this country. Monkey see, monkey do. I am sure there are plenty of decent people there who do it because "ah sure, nobody else is cleaning up, why should I bother". They would probably not do it if they were on their own in a park for example.
But fair enough though, incorrect choice of words.

downtheroad

theyoungchap wrote: »

downtheroad wrote: »

A deposit on bottles, cans, etc.
I was in Cologne recently and the deposit scheme there works fantastically well. I think it was €0.08 on glass bottles and €0.25 on plastic. People were sitting out enjoying beers along the river, and others were approaching them when they were finished with their bottles offering to take them away. Some enterprising folk had wagons or carts attached to their bicycles so they could collect large volumes of bottles. A negligible amount to pay for the deposit, but it offered an incentive for others to collect empty containers to be returned for cash.

My cousin lives in Germany and says you'd never see a bottle on a street because if somebody threw one there, a homeless fellah would clean it up and get the deposit back.

Sure we were walking down the equivalent of Grafton St in Cologne one of the days and my mate finished a bottle of water and looked around for a bin to put it in, only to find a person standing behind him with his hand out waiting to take the bottle from him. It's almost impossible to litter over there

heebusjeebus

theyoungchap wrote: »

What I meant was, in this country. Monkey see, monkey do. I am sure there are plenty of decent people there who do it because "ah sure, nobody else is cleaning up, why should I bother". They would probably not do it if they were on their own in a park for example.
But fair enough though, incorrect choice of words.

Would love to see the deposit scheme for bottles & cans introduced though.
Did we ever have it before? I remember as a kid collecting cans but memory is hazy.

theyoungchap

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Would love to see the deposit scheme for bottles & cans introduced though.
Did we ever have it before? I remember as a kid collecting cans but memory is hazy.

There was one in the 1980's I am fairly sure, particularly on glass bottles though I think. It is a no-brainer.

heebusjeebus

Thanks OP.
This thread got me off my ar$e and I've emailed my local TD asking her to implement a deposit and return scheme for cans and glass bottles.

CrankyHaus

theyoungchap wrote: »

There was one in the 1980's I am fairly sure, particularly on glass bottles though I think. It is a no-brainer.

What was the rationale for removing it and what prevents it from being reinstated?
Smells like a vested interest to me.

theyoungchap

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Thanks OP.
This thread got me off my ar$e and I've emailed my local TD asking her to implement a deposit and return scheme for cans and glass bottles.

If everybody did that, it might push it forward. Let us know the response!
I don't know why it was scrapped, probably because some FF supporter ran a bottle factory.....

heebusjeebus

CrankyHaus wrote: »

What was the rationale for removing it and what prevents it from being reinstated?
Smells like a vested interest to me.

This article is from July 2017:
http://www.thejournal.ie/recycling-bottles-cans-3488090-Jul2017/

Two recent independent reports which looked at the feasibility of a deposit and return scheme in Ireland were carried out in 2009 and 2014, with both concluding the cost would outweigh the benefits.

In my email to Catherine Byrne, I mentioned that the benefits would be less "work" for the council bin men, and less waste thrown into the canals & parks.

The second reason is not a monetary benefit but it's certainly an important benefit for those of us living in the area.

.......

This post has been deleted.

theyoungchap

heebusjeebus wrote: »

This article is from July 2017:
http://www.thejournal.ie/recycling-bottles-cans-3488090-Jul2017/



In my email to Catherine Byrne, I mentioned that the benefits would be less "work" for the council bin men, and less waste thrown into the canals & parks.

The second reason is not a monetary benefit but it's certainly an important benefit for those of us living in the area.

Could you ask her for a break down of the set up costs v operating costs? I'd rather spend 120m on that and see tangible benefits than some of the nonsense we spend that sort of money on!

L1011

CrankyHaus wrote: »

What was the rationale for removing it and what prevents it from being reinstated?
Smells like a vested interest to me.

It was removed because drinks manufacturers found that single use (and at that stage completely unrecyclable) plastic bottles or municipally recycled cans were cheaper - for them.

It was run by the drinks manufacturers not enforced by the state. There are very few places that optional systems still work, some beer in the Netherlands is still sold in returnable bottles and in returnable plastic crates, rather than cans and plastic wrapped slabs

catrionanic

I live along the canal and it’s a real problem. And people aren’t just urinating in the canal - they’re urinating in people’s gardens and on the footpaths where young children are playing the following day.

It’s also an antisocial issue because we often find it hard to sleep at night, with all the noise from the people drinking.

Our local councillor is enraged by it and has been trying to meet with the local gardaí but they keep fobbing her off.

Riskymove

L1011 wrote: »

It was removed because drinks manufacturers found that single use (and at that stage completely unrecyclable) plastic bottles or municipally recycled cans were cheaper - for them.

yes basically only alcohol is left in glass bottles and at that only a perentage

it used to be that all milk and soft drink etc were in glass and the scheme was then viable

if a glass and plastic return scheme was introduced it may be viable

TheAnalyst_

Irish people are dirty knackers. Its unfortunately genetic.

kildare lad

as someone who fishes the grand canal, the amount of rubbish that is left on the bank is sickening. A lot, but not all eastern europeans have no respect for wildlife or the environment in this country. In hot weather gangs of them hit the canals, drink, lit fires, poach fish, then leave all their rubbish on the bank. Ive found disposable, bbqs, every item of rubbish is bought in Aldi or lidl. Its all just dump there, when they leave. I always end up bringing a lot of it home because most of the stuff is recyclable. These are grown men as well, in there 30's or 40's that are doing it.

I think irish teenagers are fairly messy as well. A lot of them finish what they're eating and throw it on the ground when there's a bin 20 or 30 metres anyway. If i did that when i was younger my auld lad wouldnt be long giving me a clip on the ear. If they implemented a system that they have in Australia, where they give you 10c for every can thats returned. Id guarantee you'd see less rubbish on the street.

Riskymove

kildare lad wrote: »

. Ive found disposable, bbqs, every item of rubbish is bought in Aldi or lidl. Its all just dump there, when they leave.

This is common, sure just look at all the stuff left behind at festivals - tents, wellies etc even before we get to litter

people can afford to just buy chepa stuff and leave it behind.

Pete_Cavan

I doubt a bottle return scheme would make any difference, particularly around the canals. I can't see the people who refuse to clean up after themselves at present doing so for the sake of a few quid. The problem is a mindset and a lack of respect, a tiny financial incentive is not going to change that. Not littering is easy to do, I can't see the people who engage in it taking on the hassle needed to reclaim a small amount of money. Others may decide to collect items in order to claim the money but shifting the problem to others is not a good solution, particularly if it preserves homelessness or funds addiction. It doesn't address the actual problem (that people think it is OK to litter) and will still leave other forms of litter behind (wrappers, bags, food containers, etc.) which has to be dealt with, not to mention the piss.

joeysoap

20c a bottle, (build it into the minimum pricing) and while some would still litter, there would be enough people collecting the empty’s to make it work.

Same with cans, should have been introduced with the sugar tax.

spurious

Just back from Sweden where the refund is about 10c on a 500ml plastic bottle and 20c on the bigger ones.

What really grinds my gears is when the filth that leave a place in the state Portobello was in say 'oh that's the Corporation's job'. Parenting strikes again.

mattser

spurious wrote: »

Just back from Sweden where the refund is about 10c on a 500ml plastic bottle and 20c on the bigger ones.

What really grinds my gears is when the filth that leave a place in the state Portobello was in say 'oh that's the Corporation's job'. Parenting strikes again.

Nail on head. The sense of entitlement is nauseous.
So many people with pride of place around the country, but the filthy minority really make their mark.

RasTa

Germans drink their local stuff, we drink foreign beer so no incentive to return for a bottle deposit by heniken and carlsberg etc.

Goverment should just stick an extra 10c on cans/bottles refundable upon return

irlirishkev

Myself and herself walked the canal on Sunday, around 3pm.
Obviously the canal bank was heaving with people. Most of whom drinking. Lots settling in for the day with boxes of cans, backpacks of bottles/cans/food etc..

The Gardai were keeping an active presence up and down the canal, both on bikes, and stationed outside the Barge, keeping people from spilling over to the canal bank and drinking at that point.

DCC were already going up and down with road-sweepers, both the engine-brushy kind, and manual-stick kind.

Massive bins up and down the hotspots. Loads of room for rubbish.

"Great" we thought. "Tackling the litter problem. Good on the Gardai and the Council".

Clearly, there's no hope for us. People just couldn't give a sh*t. Scummy people that is. And there seems to be plenty

loyatemu

RasTa wrote: »

Germans drink their local stuff, we drink foreign beer so no incentive to return for a bottle deposit by heniken and carlsberg etc.

Heineken and Carlsberg are brewed and bottled here.

Rechuchote

heebusjeebus wrote: »

This article is from July 2017:
http://www.thejournal.ie/recycling-bottles-cans-3488090-Jul2017/

In my email to Catherine Byrne, I mentioned that the benefits would be less "work" for the council bin men, and less waste thrown into the canals & parks.

The second reason is not a monetary benefit but it's certainly an important benefit for those of us living in the area.

Exactly.

We brought four jam jars to the local cinema as an entry fee - I think the cinema returned them en masse to Fruitfield for payment.

The many countries that have deposit-return schemes for plastic bottles and aluminium cans don't find that the cost outweighs the benefits. That's pure laziness by our politicians.

For all the people leaping to the press where they keep their scourge handy for a quick bit of national self-flagellation, nope, it's not Irish people - it's drunks.

Most of the litter on our street comes from three groups - smokers, who drop their butts and packets and cellophane, fast-food addicts, who drop their nasty plastic-lined cups and plastic lids and polystyrene and cardboard greasefood containers, and drunks, who drop both of the above plus their cans and those plastic yokes that hold slabs of cans together and which are so fatal for fish and wildlife.

Even if the drunks want to lie around in their filth peeing and vomiting, a deposit-return scheme will at least get rid of their plastic bottles and aluminium cans. A big benefit for society.

fatknacker

Can't blame people for widdling on the streets if there are no toilets. People need to pee. There are no toilets. Establishments say theirs are for customers only. What's a person to do. Try being a woman with a full bladder. It's not fun.