The mess on the Grand Canal

hatrickpatrick

Interested Observer wrote: »

What a stupid question. It's hugely disruptive to everyone else who doesn't want to go on the piss in this public space. It basically makes the space unusable to anyone else. Either go on the piss in public or leave Dublin, genius stuff.

Why is that? There isn't anyone hanging around the area with a breathalyzer and demanding that somebody leaves if they're not drinking, FFS. I had friends with me at the weekend and two of them weren't drinking as they had work the next day, which is why we had some non-alcohol beers and bottles of pelligrino with us as well as alcoholic beer. You don't have to go on the piss just because others are.

heebusjeebus

Anyone know where the swans went to?
There has been no sign of them between Charlemont & Harolds Cross since the warm weather a few weeks back.

theyoungchap

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Anyone know where the swans went to?
There has been no sign of them between Charlemont & Harolds Cross since the warm weather a few weeks back.

They probably put them in some water which wasn't 50% urine for their own health.....

hatrickpatrick

I'm seeing mixed things on Instagram as to whether the sesh was able to reconvene this weekend or whether there was any sort of crackdown, photos from the area suggest that there was a crowd but that there was sporadic confiscation of cans - from the (blurred) photos it actually looked more like DCC people in hi-vis than actual Gardai?

Anyone know the current situation and whether it's worth wandering in tomorrow?

Chinasea

The city itself is actually filthy. Parked near Smithfields today. Just shorta seeing rats floating about. Whoever is in charge of cleaning this city should resign.

I sent an email over a year ago to Dublin city Co.co pointing out how filthy the actual bins are. No response, which in itself as an indication of the failure.

showpony1

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Anyone know the current situation and whether it's worth wandering in tomorrow?

wasn't this thread about trying to cut down on the session on the canal lol

hatrickpatrick

showpony1 wrote: »

wasn't this thread about trying to cut down on the session on the canal lol

That's one school of thought

showpony1

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That's one school of thought

would you be of the opinion that cracking down on cans outside the barge is ruining the irish culture?

hatrickpatrick

showpony1 wrote: »

would you be of the opinion that cracking down on cans outside the barge is ruining the irish culture?

Not at all, that'd be some pretentious sh!te right there - I just think it's ruining a really fun thing in a city which should be more friendly towards people chilling out and having a bit of fun outside when we get some decent weather.

I don't see anything wrong with public drinking and I'm not part of the "drinking alcohol to get tipsy is a negative thing", so therefore public drinking doesn't bother me at all, and I think that if a massive number of people want to do it and enjoy it, society should facilitate them doing so in a way which doesn't impinge upon anyone else's enjoyment (so in other words, providing resources for people to do it without having nowhere to go to the feckin' bathroom) rather than saying "either don't do it at all (no craic) or do it in a way in which you're forced to make a mess".

Tl;dr, if a lot of people want to do it, people should be allowed to do it. If it's done properly, it doesn't have to be a negative thing in any way.

EDIT: Full disclosure, it's one of my absolute favourite things to do, and the reason for that is that the fact that it's outdoors and in a "known" area for it means that different social groups coalesce and you end up seeing a sh!tload of people you wouldn't otherwise see regularly. The same can't be achieved in a single pub or house party.

mattser

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not at all, that'd be some pretentious sh!te right there - I just think it's ruining a really fun thing in a city which should be more friendly towards people chilling out and having a bit of fun outside when we get some decent weather.

I don't see anything wrong with public drinking and I'm not part of the "drinking alcohol to get tipsy is a negative thing", so therefore public drinking doesn't bother me at all, and I think that if a massive number of people want to do it and enjoy it, society should facilitate them doing so in a way which doesn't impinge upon anyone else's enjoyment (so in other words, providing resources for people to do it without having nowhere to go to the feckin' bathroom) rather than saying "either don't do it at all (no craic) or do it in a way in which you're forced to make a mess".

Tl;dr, if a lot of people want to do it, people should be allowed to do it. If it's done properly, it doesn't have to be a negative thing in any way.

EDIT: Full disclosure, it's one of my absolute favourite things to do, and the reason for that is that the fact that it's outdoors and in a "known" area for it means that different social groups coalesce and you end up seeing a sh!tload of people you wouldn't otherwise see regularly. The same can't be achieved in a single pub or house party.

That's the problem. It isn't. The shi*load you quite accurately describe, have an enormous sense of entitlement, and blame the local authority for the ensuing debris.
Can't carry a bag of empty cans a few hundred metres, and have to piss in front of the public in broad daylight. Absolutely no shame, and no pride.

hatrickpatrick

mattser wrote: »

That's the problem. It isn't. The shi*load you quite accurately describe, have an enormous sense of entitlement, and blame the local authority for the ensuing debris.
Can't carry a bag of empty cans a few hundred metres, and have to piss in front of the public in broad daylight. Absolutely no shame, and no pride.

And all I'm saying is that as a modern, capital city of a European nation, Dublin shouldn't have this "if you're outdoors, it's because you're travelling from A to B" mentality with regard to providing no public facilities whatsoever.

It's very telling that everyone arguing that providing outdoor, public facilities wouldn't help have completely and entirely ignored my repeated references to Dun Laoghaire, which gets similarly thronged and packed with people "loitering" and drinking outdoors in its public spaces on sunny days, and yet does not have a problem with mass littering or public urination - and which, coincidentally (/s) has at least four sets of currently open public toilets, and is basically lined continuously with bins from the moment you enter the town at the St Michael's Hospital End all the way down as far as Sandycove Beach.

If someone doesn't believe me, I can take photographs of the massive crowd next time there's a spectacularly sunny weekend, and then take photographs of what the place looks like at midnight that night when everyone's gone home? As for the urination, isn't the fact that this has never been publicly complained about or had articles written about it in the paper enough evidence that it doesn't go on?

Seriously, the idea that people would just be assholes anyway for the craic even if an area was properly resourced for non-residential use is ridiculous to begin with, but I have literally provided a direct case study of such an area not being plagued with anti social behaviour, and still people ignore that and insist that "people would just litter anyway". It's absolutely ridiculous at this stage.

downtheroad

I was thinking of this thread last Wednesday as I walked through the Phoenix Park to attend the Ed Sheeran concert. 50,000 tickets sold, and the lack of bins in the park was incredible, which led to numerous cans and bottles being left at already overflowing bins, lamp posts, temporary signs and benches. Can't understand how there wasn't a plan to bring in additional bins for such an event.

theyoungchap

downtheroad wrote: »

I was thinking of this thread last Wednesday as I walked through the Phoenix Park to attend the Ed Sheeran concert. 50,000 tickets sold, and the lack of bins in the park was incredible, which led to numerous cans and bottles being left at already overflowing bins, lamp posts, temporary signs and benches. Can't understand how there wasn't a plan to bring in additional bins for such an event.

This was the point - a deposit on bottles would get rid of a large amount of that rubbish.

Maybe Dun Laoghaire is not comparable hatpatrick because it attracts mainly people who live in the surrounding area rather than people from all over the city who don't have to look at the mess the next day?

Tabnabs

theyoungchap wrote: »

Maybe Dun Laoghaire is not comparable hatpatrick because it attracts mainly people who live in the surrounding area rather than people from all over the city who don't have to look at the mess the next day?

Oh it really does, they arrive by the Dart load and when it gets particularly hot and they get particularly drunk, all sorts of public order issues kick off. I suspect a lot of the litter in this area simply gets thrown into the sea...

downtheroad

theyoungchap wrote: »

downtheroad wrote: »

I was thinking of this thread last Wednesday as I walked through the Phoenix Park to attend the Ed Sheeran concert. 50,000 tickets sold, and the lack of bins in the park was incredible, which led to numerous cans and bottles being left at already overflowing bins, lamp posts, temporary signs and benches. Can't understand how there wasn't a plan to bring in additional bins for such an event.

This was the point - a deposit on bottles would get rid of a large amount of that rubbish.

Maybe Dun Laoghaire is not comparable hatpatrick because it attracts mainly people who live in the surrounding area rather than people from all over the city who don't have to look at the mess the next day?

Oh I agree, a deposit on all plastic, glass and aluminium containers would be fantastic if it were implemented in Ireland. The Royal Canal has the same issue, was running along it last night and there were loads of plastic bags of rubbish hanging from the railings as there are no bins along the canal and no incentive for people to collect or return bottles/cans.

GhostyMcGhost

downtheroad wrote: »

no incentive for people to collect or return bottles/cans.

Desperate we have to incentivise people to bring home rubbish that they brought!

The incentive is the area doesn't look like a kip when you're finished

c68zapdsm5i1ru

There's a real 'nanny state' attitude by some Irish people. If bins aren't provided it's 'not their fault' that they have to leave their rubbish lying around etc. It's 'someone else's' job to clear up and so on.


You see the same attitude in people's general behaviour. 'There's no law that says I can't play loud music in my garden/let my kids play football on the road until midnight/smoke in a full bus shelter on a rainy day.

As a result more and more rules and laws and regulations have to be introduced simply to get people to behave themselves, and then those same people complain about the 'nanny state'.

mattser

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Desperate we have to incentivise people to bring home rubbish that they brought!

The incentive is the area doesn't look like a kip when you're finished

Kenya Aggressive Subway wrote: »

There's a real 'nanny state' attitude by some Irish people. If bins aren't provided it's 'not their fault' that they have to leave their rubbish lying around etc. It's 'someone else's' job to clear up and so on.


You see the same attitude in people's general behaviour. 'There's no law that says I can't play loud music in my garden/let my kids play football on the road until midnight/smoke in a full bus shelter on a rainy day.

As a result more and more rules and laws and regulations have to be introduced simply to get people to behave themselves, and then those same people complain about the 'nanny state'.

Nice to see a few more people stating the bloody obvious.

hatrickpatrick

Tabnabs wrote: »

I suspect a lot of the litter in this area simply gets thrown into the sea...

I really, really doubt it. Believe me, locals of this area would be absolutely up in arms if either the area or the sea around it was full of litter regularly after sunny days.

Obviously I'm wasting my time by pointing this out repeatedly, but for the bajillionth time, Dun Laoghaire CoCo, unlike DCC, has provisioned the area with a huge amount of public bins and public toilets. It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that there is no correlation between this and the lack of litter after days when the area gets crowded with non-resident visitors.

Fann Linn

downtheroad wrote: »

I was thinking of this thread last Wednesday as I walked through the Phoenix Park to attend the Ed Sheeran concert. 50,000 tickets sold, and the lack of bins in the park was incredible, which led to numerous cans and bottles being left at already overflowing bins, lamp posts, temporary signs and benches. Can't understand how there wasn't a plan to bring in additional bins for such an event.

Even when there are bins for comparable numbers, ie Croke Park on quarter final /semi final days, plus plenty of bins everywhere, ie, at every entrance to the seating plus other open spaces, there are plenty of dirty bstards who leave their litter behind.

hatrickpatrick

Fann Linn wrote: »

Even when there are bins for comparable numbers, ie Croke Park on quarter final /semi final days, plus plenty of bins everywhere, ie, at every entrance to the seating plus other open spaces, there are plenty of dirty bstards who leave their litter behind.

Those individuals should be prosecuted and fined, no two ways about it. But I'll give you an analogy of a court case several years ago involving Irish Rail and a fine for travelling without a ticket - Irish Rail argued that no matter the circumstances, travelling without a ticket is not allowed. The passenger argued - with evidence - that his local station is unmanned, that both ticket machines were out of order, and that he had a meeting in work which he couldn't afford to miss.

The judge threw the case out on the grounds that if Irish Rail fail to provide any actual means for somebody to purchase a ticket, and they rely upon public transport for their daily commute, that's their f*ck up and not something the passenger, who didn't actively cause the lack of any ticket-buying facility in his local station, should be penalised for.

I'd argue the same for DCC - pissing or littering in public should be illegal if there's an adequate provision of the facilities needed to dispose of waste - artificial and bodily - in public areas by the body responsible for the maintenance of public areas. If there isn't, it should be turned back upon DCC to actually cater for the city in the way that the public actually chooses to use it.

It works in Dun Laoghaire, there's no reason at all it couldn't work in the city. I can guarantee you that if I was busted pissing in public or not cleaning up after my dog on, say, Newtown Smith Green, the Gardai would deal with me extremely harshly - I've seen this happen to others in the past. But the flip side is that the Newtown Smith area has about ten public bins, as it is a well known and regularly used public dog walking area - and these are emptied incredibly regularly in order to keep up with demand. And I've already spoken several times about the abundance of public toilets we have in the area.

Chinasea

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I really, really doubt it. Believe me, locals of this area would be absolutely up in arms if either the area or the sea around it was full of litter regularly after sunny days.

Obviously I'm wasting my time by pointing this out repeatedly, but for the bajillionth time, Dun Laoghaire CoCo, unlike DCC, has provisioned the area with a huge amount of public bins and public toilets. It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that there is no correlation between this and the lack of litter after days when the area gets crowded with non-resident visitors.

Actually Dun Laoghaire does not have a huge amount of public bins. They have two public toilets. There are no bins in my local parks in Dun Laoghaire and not wanting to detract from your point of view we could certainly do with more all around.

We have several locked up and rotting abandoned council owned toilets that should be refurbished, manned and reopened.

I could send countless pictures too of Seapoint in Monkstown after a sunny day. Postcard from a shameful day in hell springs to mind.

We have a 10 year old girl organising a weekly voluntary litter pick -up in Sandycove. The wonderful child even fundraised for two sea-bins to gobble up our plastic waste from Dun Laoghaire harbour.

I wish we could have a deposit refund system. Our litter problem would be almost solved overnight.

hatrickpatrick

Chinasea wrote: »

Actually Dun Laoghaire does not have a huge amount of public bins. They have two public toilets. There are no bins in my local parks in Dun Laoghaire and not wanting to detract from your point of view we could certainly do with more all around.

We have several locked up and rotting abandoned council owned toilets that should be refurbished, manned and reopened.

I could send countless pictures too of Seapoint in Monkstown after a sunny day. Postcard from a shameful day in hell springs to mind.

We have a 10 year old girl organising a weekly voluntary litter pick -up in Sandycove. The wonderful child even fundraised for two sea-bins to gobble up our plastic waste from Dun Laoghaire harbour.

I wish we could have a deposit refund system. Our litter problem would be almost solved overnight.

I was speaking particularly about the Sandycove / dun laoghaire town area, which has two sets of functional public toilets and plenty of bins around Newtownsmith / Sandycove Beach. I've seen crowds of a similar size to The Barge's crowd on sunny days and never seen either an abundance of litter or any associated media outcry - would you say that this is indeed something which happens and I've just missed it?

Chinasea

I would Just say/reiterate the whole country would benefit if we had a deposit refund system.

Dravokivich

Chinasea wrote: »

I would Just say/reiterate the whole country would benefit if we had a deposit refund system.

Not while you pay for domestic recycling.

retalivity

Has something happened to the barge? The last few sunny evenings there have been very few people there, compared with further up the canal at portobello. Have they been moved on by the guards, or the bar themselves?

Chinasea

Dravokivich wrote: »

Not while you pay for domestic recycling.

And every sq inch of the country is strewn and littered with the hundreds of thousands of plastic bottles and cans.

theyoungchap

retalivity wrote: »

Has something happened to the barge? The last few sunny evenings there have been very few people there, compared with further up the canal at portobello. Have they been moved on by the guards, or the bar themselves?

I think the party might be over....good riddance.

Hurrache

Well this is interesting

https://twitter.com/totallydublin/status/999596815480705024

theyoungchap

Hurrache wrote: »

Well this is interesting

https://twitter.com/totallydublin/status/999596815480705024

And what will happen - the people around there will go home and throw a bag of their domestic rubbish into the bag, bring it back and get a free pint.

Not sure they've thought this one through.....there is a fly tipping problem around there particularly around the corner from the Spar.

Not the solution either.