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Frustrated trying to get an alarm

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13

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    #62
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭kub


    KoolKid wrote:
    I think you have missed the whole point of the debate in favour of trying to sell paid for monitoring.


    Well with your earlier comment about Garda response to intruder alarm activations you are not doing the profession you are in many favours.

    What you said is not true and I hope you actually know that.

    Also you do not get the reality of actually running and owning a business, if you did you would have a better grasp on it you would be singing a different tune completly.


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    #63
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,748 ✭✭✭degsie


    social-media-why-cant-we-all-just-get-along.jpeg


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    #64
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    kub wrote: »
    Well with your earlier comment about Garda response to intruder alarm activations you are not doing the profession you are in many favours.

    No, I'm doing the the customer a favor by being honest as opposed to just trying to sell them ongoing commitments.
    Garda response is at their discretion.I have plenty of Guards as customers who will tell you the same.

    kub wrote: »
    Also you do not get the reality of actually running and owning a business, if you did you would have a better grasp on it you would be singing a different tune completly.

    I do run a company. As for what I own or have shares or interests in, you are not aware of my status there so please refrain from commenting.


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    #65
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭kub


    KoolKid wrote:
    I do run a company. As for what I own or have shares or interests in, you are not aware of my status there so please refrain from commenting.


    Well a look at the CRO website lists the directors of where you work and officially you are not listed there.
    So wish away.


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    #66
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,546 ✭✭✭kub


    KoolKid wrote:
    No, I'm doing the the customer a favor by being honest as opposed to just trying to sell them ongoing commitments. Garda response is at their discretion.I have plenty of Guards as customers who will tell you the same.


    A customer is someone who pays you for your service's.
    Yours must not be much good if you have issues getting Garda response.

    I have plenty of Gardai as customers and do plenty of work for them and they say otherwise to me.

    You do recall their instance that their response was not to be discussed as per the verification criteria agreed in 2005?
    So probably best for you to stop mentioning it and remove your earlier post.


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    #67
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    kub wrote: »
    Well a look at the CRO website lists the directors of where you work and officially you are not listed there.
    So wish away.

    That tells you Im not a director. I am not.
    Again you do not know my interests or status connected to that (or any other company for that matter) So to suggest I don't run it correctly or don't have the same interests because I don't own it is simply wrong.
    kub wrote: »
    A customer is someone who pays you for your service's.
    Yours must not be much good if you have issues getting Garda response.
    Everyone knows Garda response to domestic alarms is not a priority & their own documentation even states a key holder must attend.
    To effectively respond to a verified intruder alarm, the Garda Síochána require
    that a key holder is informed and that they attend in the shortest time possible at
    the premises.
    1.7 Failure of a key holder to attend at a premises following a verified alarm will
    result in the activation being recorded as a false alarm.

    kub wrote: »
    You do recall their instance that their response was not to be discussed as per the verification criteria agreed in 2005?
    So probably best for you to stop mentioning it and remove your earlier post.

    Do you mean this?
    No Alarm Installation Company or Monitoring Centre shall, in or on any of their
    stationery or advertising material, make any reference to An Garda Síochána or
    infer that Garda response will result from all alarm activations.

    Sounds to me thats what you are claiming.

    Anyway this thread has been very informative to the OP that there are many other options available to people who don't want to be tied into payments.
    If you've appeared here just to personally attack me because you disagree then work away. I won't be engaging further here.


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    #68
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Effects wrote: »
    In my own situation I will probably install a HKC alarm, do it myself and not put it on the insurance. I will probably go for the GSM monitoring so if the alarm is triggered I can quickly log in to the cctv remotely to see what's happening.

    Regardless of having it on your insurance, if it is installed and working they will expect you to use it to protect your property.

    www.altor.ie



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    #69
    Conar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Conar


    altor wrote: »
    Regardless of having it on your insurance, if it is installed and working they will expect you to use it to protect your property.

    Are you sure about this?
    I haven't seen anything that would imply this anywhere.


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    #70
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    altor wrote: »
    Regardless of having it on your insurance, if it is installed and working they will expect you to use it to protect your property.

    And if I don't tell them I have an alarm they can't expect me to use it.


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    #71
    DavyD_83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭DavyD_83


    Effects wrote: »
    And if I don't tell them I have an alarm they can't expect me to use it.

    I'm sure most insurance policies have a clause that states something about taking all reasonable precautions to avoid damage/theft, which could be used in cases where you leave a ladder against your wall, window open, alarm off, etc etc.
    No policy will be able to include an exhaustive list of exact scenarios, but I'm sure most could be seen to imply that if you have an alarm you should use it if the insurer wanted to be difficult.


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    #72
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Conar wrote: »
    Are you sure about this?
    I haven't seen anything that would imply this anywhere.
    Effects wrote: »
    And if I don't tell them I have an alarm they can't expect me to use it.

    That is from an assessor.
    It is up to the home or business owner to protect their property.
    If you have a working alarm they also expect it to be used.

    www.altor.ie



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    #73
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    I thought this a strange one myself. So I ran it by assessors we work with and the answer was ABSOLUTELY NOT.
    The reasons:
    You are paying a loading for not having an alarm. The risk and policy cost is based on this element of security not being in place.
    You can not be punished for not using something you are not claiming to have.
    Using due care can not be an argument as the policy will specifically state you do not have an alarm.


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    #74
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Only relaying what I was told by the assessor :)

    Id advise anyone to check with your insurance company re this as we are getting conflicting advise from different assessors.

    www.altor.ie



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    #75
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    altor wrote: »
    That is from an assessor.
    It is up to the home or business owner to protect their property.
    If you have a working alarm they also expect it to be used.

    You're basically saying I'm better off from an insurance point of view if I just don't install an alarm on my home.


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    #76
    DavyD_83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭DavyD_83


    Effects wrote: »
    You're basically saying I'm better off from an insurance point of view if I just don't install an alarm on my home.

    Why not just install, use, and declare your alarm to get the reduction in insurance cost and the added security (let's not get into debating this, Hans Gruber will get past anything) of having an alarm?


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    #77
    hatchman
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭hatchman


    DavyD_83 wrote:
    Why not just install, use, and declare your alarm to get the reduction in insurance cost and the added security (let's not get into debating this, Hans Gruber will get past anything) of having an alarm?


    Will the savings you make on your insurance pay for an alarm install and maintenance fees?


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    #78
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The savings on your home insurance will usually not even cover you for the required annual service. Not to mention the extra outs you are giving your insurance company.


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    #79
    DavyD_83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭DavyD_83


    hatchman wrote: »
    Will the savings you make on your insurance pay for an alarm install and maintenance fees?

    Probably not, but I got impression from all the comments above that the scenario was where people have alarms but don't declare them to insurance. So the cost is already there, no?
    Anyways, seems like op got himself sorted which is cool.
    I'm out :)


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    #80
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Effects wrote: »
    You're basically saying I'm better off from an insurance point of view if I just don't install an alarm on my home.

    For a insurance point of view you would need to ask them that.

    The little discount they do offer is not worth the discount.

    www.altor.ie



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    #81
    pilotsnipes
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭pilotsnipes


    @Conar

    This has been a very informative thread and I've just discovered that I'm walking the exact same path as you at the moment. Thanks for bringing up this issue.

    I'm off to look for a new panel and installer now. Perpetual contracts and fewer features annoy me greatly too.

    Cheers.


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    #82
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    pilotsnipes wrote: »

    I'm off to look for a new panel and installer now. Perpetual contracts and fewer features annoy me greatly too.

    Cheers.

    Good luck with it all. Remember shop around and get plenty of advice.


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    #83
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    If you have an alarm and declare it to insurance, are you covered if you're burgled but don't have the alarm on? Anyway, who pays attention to alarms going off? Are you safer not attending to an alarm?


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    #84
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    At worst you may not be. At best they will use it as a bargaining tool in the event of a claim.


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    #85
    ctlsleh
    Registered Users Posts: 779 ✭✭✭ctlsleh


    If this helps anyone, I renewed my insurance and had an old alarm which we don’t use so I decided to remove it from the policy, I was told the Max I can insure contents for was 102K, so,to have to upgrade my alarm so that I can insure contents for more than that.........anyone bought a new alarm recently?
    I’d like one that i can connect to home automation, Philips hue, phone app, maybe some video cameras etc


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    #86
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    ctlsleh wrote: »
    If this helps anyone, I renewed my insurance and had an old alarm which we don’t use so I decided to remove it from the policy, I was told the Max I can insure contents for was 102K, so,to have to upgrade my alarm so that I can insure contents for more than that.........anyone bought a new alarm recently?

    I'd say get quotes from other companies and also tell this company that you will be getting quotes from other companies and what is the best they can do to keep your business.

    IME if you show them you are serious to move, they will normally be quick to do a deal.

    Best to avoid having the alarm on your insurance. What if you forget to turn it on or it fails? It just gives them an excuse not to pay out.
    ctlsleh wrote: »
    I’d like one that i can connect to home automation, Philips hue, phone app, maybe some video cameras etc

    There are some options, but the modern home automation stuff is still pretty immature in the Irish/UK market at the moment.

    Siemens and GSD have free app control. Comfort Cytech Alarms has more home automation options.

    Then there are the Yale and Honeywell DIY systems you can buy on Amazon. They have apps and with a bit of hacking can be somewhat made to work with SmartThings for some level of home automation.

    In the US market there are a whole bunch of more advanced smart alarm systems coming from the likes of Google Nest, ADT SmartThings, Amazon, etc. though they haven't come to the Irish market yet.


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    #87
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Siemens VAnderbilt have some grat intergration options

    https://www.spcsupportinfo.com/SPCConnectPro/spc-overview-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2/spc-integrations/home-automation-intergration/

    GSD are also working on Alexa Integration.


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    #88
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    KoolKid wrote: »
    GSD are also working on Alexa Integration.

    If they happen to be listening here :D then they should work on IFTTT support first.

    With IFTTT support, it can then easily work with Alexa, Google Assistant, SmartThings, Yonomi, etc.

    From there doing native Alexa support is easy, while having at least something for all other platforms.


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    #89
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    DavyD_83 wrote: »
    Why not just install, use, and declare your alarm to get the reduction in insurance cost and the added securityof having an alarm?

    Insurance company won't give me a reduction if I install the alarm myself, that's why.


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    #90
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Effects wrote: »
    Insurance company won't give me a reduction if I install the alarm myself, that's why.

    Better off not declaring your alarm system at all on your insurance. What if you forget to turn it on or don't use it during the day or it has a failure? It just gives the insurance company an excuse not to pay out or pay out less.

    The reduction is usually very small and not really worth it. Shopping around for other insurance companies or just telling them you will so often gets the same or better reduction IME.


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    #91
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    I agree. The reduction in your home insurance wont even cover the annual service to maintain the standard. Not to mention the massive outs you are giving them.


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