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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Pay and display parking fine

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  • 09-05-2018 4:40pm
    #1
    Simon Templar
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭


    SO, I was in Dun Laoghaire. Paid at the machine with debit card, for 1 hour of parking . Only the machine didn't issue any ticket. The operation went through so I left a message for the warden that I paid but the machine was faulty, somehow. Obviously that wasn't enough. So I got my fine for that. In the meantime the operation from my account disappeared and the money went back into my account without apparently leaving trace. I contacted the bank and gave me the authorization code for that operation for 1,50€, and they said that if an operation is not accepted the money don't leave.
    The very next day I got the fine I applied for appeal, I didn't send my conversation with the bank and the authorization code to prove that I did pay but that wasn't enough as they rejected my appeal today. At this point I am not sure what to do. Should I pay (most people would and they seem to count on that) or do you think I have a case to proceed further. Please anyone who could help as the first 28 days are almost over (they tooke their time of course). They said that a ticket should have been displayed, and I understand that...but I paid and not ticket...
    Tagged:


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    #2
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Even if you paid, even if you can prove you paid the ticket was not displayed, fine is for non-display not non-ticket.
    Pay the fine, learn and move on, life is too short

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



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    #3
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    At the same time you can't display a ticket if one is not issued. From experience i found calling into the council office and insisting on speaking with the person in charge got the issued fixed and the fine waived


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    #4
    tcawley29
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭tcawley29


    You technically never paid for the parking.
    What happened was there was an issue with the machine before the transaction completed but after it was authorized.
    When this happens you have a shadow transaction where the money can either return to you the next day or a few days later.
    You may get away with this is you kick and scream to the county council, however I wouldn't hold out much hope.


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    #5
    Simon Templar
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Simon Templar


    Time wrote: »
    At the same time you can't display a ticket if one is not issued. From experience i found calling into the council office and insisting on speaking with the person in charge got the issued fixed and the fine waived
    That is precisely my point... what was I supposed to learn? It's not the first time that a machine is not working and in this case I did pay.


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    #6
    tcawley29
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭tcawley29


    Simon Templar wrote: »
    That is precisely my point... what was I supposed to learn? It's not the first time that a machine is not working and in this case I did pay.

    If the transaction is not on your account now then now did not pay.

    Perhaps a detailed letter from someone in your bank with the details of the authorization number, merchant id, pos id, date, time and value may help you out with this one here though. This should still be available even though it was a shadow transaction.


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    #7
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,514 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Simon Templar wrote: »
    Time wrote: »
    At the same time you can't display a ticket if one is not issued. From experience i found calling into the council office and insisting on speaking with the person in charge got the issued fixed and the fine waived
    That is precisely my point... what was I supposed to learn? It's not the first time that a machine is not working and in this case I did pay.
    After the first time you should have downloaded the app. You are also lucky you weren’t in the harbour as it would have meant a Clamp.


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    #8
    Simon Templar
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Simon Templar


    tcawley29 wrote: »
    If the transaction is not on your account now then now did not pay.

    Perhaps a detailed letter from someone in your bank with the details of the authorization number, merchant id, pos id, date, time and value may help you out with this one here though. This should still be available even though it was a shadow transaction.

    I did send authorization code and actually the whole copy of the conversation with the bank employee...with details of time and POS and so on... I might just try to call in the council before bow and pay. Sorry for all the typos.
    Unfortunately the bank can't give me any more official paper.


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    #9
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,514 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Simon Templar wrote: »
    tcawley29 wrote: »
    If the transaction is not on your account now then now did not pay.

    Perhaps a detailed letter from someone in your bank with the details of the authorization number, merchant id, pos id, date, time and value may help you out with this one here though. This should still be available even though it was a shadow transaction.

    I did send authorization code and actually the whole copy of the conversation with the bank employee...with details of time and POS and so on... I might just try to call in the council before bow and pay. Sorry for all the typos.
    Unfortunately the bank can't give me any more official paper.

    The requirement is to display a valid ticket. You did not display a valid ticket. If it was broke go to a different machine , pay there and then query the first machine later


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    #10
    Simon Templar
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Simon Templar


    ted1 wrote: »
    The requirement is to display a valid ticket. You did not display a valid ticket. If it was broke go to a different machine , pay there and then query the first machine later

    So the right course of action to a machine that doesn't issue a ticket but 'apparently' take the money is to pay double or use an app. Is that the official procedure? By the way, I did find the warden and asked him and he said that he checked the machine and was working.
    Anyway. I think I found my answer.

    Thanks


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    #11
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,987 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Simon Templar wrote: »
    So the right course of action to a machine that doesn't issue a ticket but 'apparently' take the money is to pay double or use an app. Is that the official procedure? By the way, I did find the warden and asked him and he said that he checked the machine and was working.
    Anyway. I think I found my answer.

    Thanks

    The official procedure is you call the number on the machine and say that the transaction failed, you don't walk off and not put the "Pay and Display" ticket on your dash, even if it went through you still didn't have a ticket so you should have escalated.


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    #12
    Simon Templar
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭Simon Templar


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The official procedure is you call the number on the machine and say that the transaction failed, you don't walk off and not put the "Pay and Display" ticket on your dash, even if it went through you still didn't have a ticket so you should have escalated.

    I would have gladly called a number...(probably the same time it took me to write a message, which was a long shot, I know) there was no number to b called on the machine. I also tried to call the number that shows on the ticket, afterwards, but nobody picks up.
    Anyway, I will try to make my case in the office and see what they say.


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    #13
    tcawley29
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭tcawley29


    Simon Templar wrote: »
    I would have gladly called a number...(probably the same time it took me to write a message, which was a long shot, I know) there was no number to b called on the machine. I also tried to call the number that shows on the ticket, afterwards, but nobody picks up.
    Anyway, I will try to make my case in the office and see what they say.

    The fact that you have it on headed paper from the bank should help. If they don't help out then I'd nearly chance my arm in court. Make sure you get a picture of the machine which displays date and time that there was no number to call on it.


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    #14
    Caliden
    Registered Users Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    ted1 wrote: »
    Simon Templar wrote: »
    tcawley29 wrote: »
    If the transaction is not on your account now then now did not pay.

    Perhaps a detailed letter from someone in your bank with the details of the authorization number, merchant id, pos id, date, time and value may help you out with this one here though. This should still be available even though it was a shadow transaction.

    I did send authorization code and actually the whole copy of the conversation with the bank employee...with details of time and POS and so on... I might just try to call in the council before bow and pay. Sorry for all the typos.
    Unfortunately the bank can't give me any more official paper.

    The requirement is to display a valid ticket. You did not display a valid ticket. If it was broke go to a different machine , pay there and then query the first machine later

    Not sure if you know but most county councils in Dublin also use parkingtag for street parking. I haven't had to display a paper ticket on my car since I started using it 3 years ago.

    You can pay by text also, again no need for the paper ticket displayed on the dash.


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    #15
    mikeecho
    Registered Users Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    OP
    you state in the thread title "pay and display"

    You did attempt to pay, yet failed to display.

    If I were you, and if I could afford the time off in court, I would contest it.
    I've no doubt you'll get off. Providing you have evidence that you made a payment at the relevant time, yet the machine malfunctioned and didn't issue a receipt.

    But.. it'll be a whole day you'll have to take off work.

    Do the math, which is the better financial option.

    The ball is in your court.


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