Rent Prices/Cost of Living off the wall

Franz Von Peppercorn

cournioni wrote: »

You clearly haven’t been looking.

My brother works in tech and he hasn’t had any issues with getting jobs around the country. IT jobs in Dundalk (2), and Galway were offered to him within the past year. Similar pay (and better) to what he got working in Dublin too.

If you’re not willing to be flexible in some way shape or form with regards to “what you’re skilled in” then you’re leaving yourself with very few jobs to choose from, anywhere.

I’m not sure how we moved into skilled workers.

One thing is sure lower paid workers with transferable skulls are better off down the country if they are paying rent in Dublin. Many aren’t though as they stay wit their parents.

I wonder if maybe that is why the situation has not caused as much of a radicalisation as you might think. Lots of renters in Dublin are immigrants or Irish internal migrants. Many don’t vote as well as they young don’t vote.

cournioni

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I’m not sure how we moved into skilled workers.

One thing is sure lower paid workers with transferable skulls are better off down the country if they are paying rent in Dublin. Many aren’t though as they stay wit their parents.

I wonder if maybe that is why the situation has not caused as much of a radicalisation as you might think. Lots of renters in Dublin are immigrants or Irish internal migrants. Many don’t vote as well as they young don’t vote.

There are jobs for skilled and non skilled workers down the country. That is the point a poster made earlier about people living in Dublin and feeling the squeeze of affording a place to live in with their current employment, but also made reference to the fact that the quality of accommodation is better for what you are paying in the countryside.

Obviously, the more skilled you are, the likelier you are to have better pay and easier to afford a place (or a nicer place). But if you want true value for what you pay (compared to what you earn), you are better off in the country side, no question.

Franz Von Peppercorn

cournioni wrote: »

There are jobs for skilled and non skilled workers down the country. That is the point a poster made earlier about people living in Dublin and feeling the squeeze of affording a place to live in with their current employment, but also made reference to the fact that the quality of accommodation is better for what you are paying in the countryside.

Obviously, the more skilled you are, the likelier you are to have better pay and easier to afford a place (or a nicer place). But if you want true value for what you pay (compared to what you earn), you are better off in the country side, no question.

No. You are better off down the country if you were paying rent in Dublin. You didn’t read my point. I think lots of younger low paid workers from Dublin, living and working in Dublin, are not paying rent but living at home with their parents. To these people the affordability to buy is more important than rent prices.

MOH

Gringo180 wrote: »

Average rent prices in Dublin now stands at 2k a month

Average hyperbole in these threads now stands at 600% per poster

cournioni

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

No. You are better off down the country if you were paying rent in Dublin. You didn’t read my point. I think lots of younger low paid workers from Dublin, living and working in Dublin, are not paying rent but living at home with their parents. To these people the affordability to buy is more important than rent prices.

You are better off down the country if you are buying or renting. Better quality of accommodation for what you pay.

If you’re living and working in Dublin and living with your parents but cannot afford to buy, then you either need to upskill to try and get a better job to afford one (if you want to live in Dublin), or move to the countryside where it makes sense to work and afford somewhere where you aren’t paying through the nose for living space that really is not worth it.

Franz Von Peppercorn

MOH wrote: »

Average hyperbole in these threads now stands at 600% per poster

So you think his claim that average rent is 2K is 600% exaggerated?

Samuel T. Cogley

MOH wrote: »

Average hyperbole in these threads now stands at 600% per poster

In fairness:

https://www.daft.ie/report/2018-Q1-rentalprice-daftreport.pdf

MOH

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

So you think his claim that average rent is 2K is 600% exaggerated?

No, I *know* his claim that the average person is paying 2K rent is exaggerated.

(Hint: You're making the same mistake as him)

Pugzilla

I'm getting the impression from this thread that a lot of people who live in the pale look down on the rest of the country.

I'd consider Dublin a depressing claustrophobic ****ehole myself. One of the worst examples of urban sprawl and bad planning. I can't tolerate more than a few hours there.

Graham

Pugzilla wrote: »

I'm getting the impression from this thread that a lot of people who live in the pale look down on the rest of the country.

are we reading different threads?

Franz Von Peppercorn

MOH wrote: »

No, I *know* his claim that the average person is paying 2K rent is exaggerated.

(Hint: You're making the same mistake as him)

Neither of us is making any mistake. You merely failed reading comprehension.

Kitty6277

ted1 wrote: »

Also someone earning minimum wage will get rent allowance or HAP. ITs the poor lads working in mid 30k that’ll struggle. The lower end are looked after by the state

I mean, 30K is a decent enough sum of money, I find it awful that you can do everything "right", get a decent job, but then you can't afford to actually live off it because rent etc., is so expensive :rolleyes:

Bubbaclaus

Pugzilla wrote: »

I'm getting the impression from this thread that a lot of people who live in the pale look down on the rest of the country.

I'd consider Dublin a depressing claustrophobic ****ehole myself. One of the worst examples of urban sprawl and bad planning. I can't tolerate more than a few hours there.

So you are going to show your disdain for people in the pale looking down on rural ireland by doing exactly the same thing in reverse?

Right...

Pugzilla

Let them eat cake

Graces7

Vela wrote: »

Seattle and Vancouver are both pretty bad at this point. A serious lack of housing and rents are getting higher and higher, not to mention the cost of buying.

And very high numbers of homeless,meaning livng/sleeping on the streets

Cookie_Monster

The_Brood wrote: »

I wonder, is there a country in the Western world with a worse housing shortage and crisis?

Than Dublin? Vancouver, Auckland, Sydney spring to mind straight away

Auckland median house price 580k eur
Dublin 330k eur
...

onrail

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Than Dublin? Vancouver, Auckland, Sydney spring to mind straight away

Auckland median house price 580k eur
Dublin 330k eur
...

+1 for Auckland - Meself and the missus are paying 1100Eur/month for a room in a houseshare!

Same thing happening all over the globe

listermint

onrail wrote: »

+1 for Auckland - Meself and the missus are paying 1100Eur/month for a room in a houseshare!

Same thing happening all over the globe

That is ridiculous.


I mean why would you bother Auckland is a bit if a kip by southern hemisphere standards.not very many redeeming features

pwurple

Experience_day wrote: »

You can't blame a certain amount of skepticism on pensions...pensions levys, age of retirements rising to be point where you'll probably not be alive etc.

And frankly there are probably a lot of people who would have rather have purchased a couple houses. Personally I work in a relatively lucrative industry (atm!) and pensions come with it so I don't really worry, but I certainly wouldn't be putting much into them myself. (And yes we look at pensions..)

You can pull down a private pension long before the national retirement age. Look at it like an extremely high interest savings account.

Pension levy is 1%. Tax avoided = 40% if you are in the higher band.

Purchase a couple of houses, sure thing... but you have to pay 40% on the income to do that, and full tax then on any rent from it. Can’t even write off the full interest as an expense.

Wheeliebin30

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

No it doesn’t.

Yes it does.

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany all have more homeless people than Ireland.

Add England, France etc.

I could go on.

Heres Johnny

Proves the point about financial illiteracy, in the posts after mine we have mentioned:

Retirement age rising and being dead before you can get it. That's the state pension of 1/3 of average income. I certainly don't want to go to 1/3 of average income of people in the country when I retire. Which is actually far less than 1/3 of my income and will be far far less than that come to retire. I will be semi retired and taking my 25% lump sum at 60. I'll keep working as well but not at the pace I am now.

The co workers who at 40 think they are still too young to start a pension. Have they never heard of how compound interest works? Hugely hugely powerful.
Time spent in a fund can be equally as powerful as the amount of money you put in. Well done to the poster that started at 25.

Here's something for you all, it's a bit off topic but the pension fund I'm invested in has returned 8.6% average over last 30 years. What does that mean? It means that money I put in today doubles every 8 years or so.

I started at 28. Let's say I put in 1000 that year. When 36 years old, 1000 will be 2000. When 44, that will be 4000. When 52 it will be 8000. When 60 it will be 16000. When 68, it will be 32000.

Assuming I get the returns that it has given in the past. That, my friends, is how compound interest works.

Graces7

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Yes it does.

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany all have more homeless people than Ireland.

Add England, France etc.

I could go on.

Here people seem to think we are worse off than anyone. eg health service

We know the NHS in the UK is in bits; and read this news article from France,with the summing up at the end. https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/2018/0509/961324-france-emergency-call/

Franz Von Peppercorn

onrail wrote: »

+1 for Auckland - Meself and the missus are paying 1100Eur/month for a room in a houseshare!

Same thing happening all over the globe

No. In some parts of the English speaking world and China.

Prices falling in Britain:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/10/celebrate-house-prices-falling-britain-property-values

Heres Johnny

If supply ever picks up here we will have a price crash again. Or at least a drop, maybe not a full on crash.
Or if demand towards Dublin falls in favour of other locations.
Everything is cyclical. I am a long term observer and participant in stock markets.
Fluctuates all the time. Was in a rise since 2008 and has begun to dip now. Not a bad thing really, I believe it was overvalued.
Same thing with housing, when supply and demand reach equilibrium there will be a price drop. It's just market correction and is inevitable.
Again, not a bad thing. If you bought a house in last few years to live in and are comfortable paying mortgage, don't worry about it. If you bought to speculate to accumulate, you may lose out.
But that's the risk v return you took on.

Andy Magic

I blame the mé féin generation, mostly people in there late 40's, 50's and some 60's who own there own house which they bought for under €100k but now want it to be worth half a million or more. These are the same people who will object to any house or apartment block being built anywhere near them as it will de-value there home they own which they want the value to keep going up.

The country has been good to this generation, they lived in Ireland in a different time, they worked in jobs that were secure and paid enough to live off where mortgages were hard to get but were also realistic. Now they expect the next generation to just suck it up.

This is Ireland 2018

Pugzilla

Lack of high rise buildings in Irish cities is one of the big problems.

Experience_day

Kitty6277 wrote: »

I mean, 30K is a decent enough sum of money, I find it awful that you can do everything "right", get a decent job, but then you can't afford to actually live off it because rent etc., is so expensive :rolleyes:

I wouldn't say 30k is a decent salary by anyone's imagination. Maybe a low paid grad job but you'd be expecting a lot more than that fairly soon after...

And stands to reason that it therefore wouldn't be sufficient to live in a nice place in the city, compromises would have to be made...

pwurple

Andy Magic wrote: »

I blame the mé féin generation, mostly people in there late 40's, 50's and some 60's who own there own house which they bought for under €100k but now want it to be worth half a million or more. These are the same people who will object to any house or apartment block being built anywhere near them as it will de-value there home they own which they want the value to keep going up.

The country has been good to this generation, they lived in Ireland in a different time, they worked in jobs that were secure and paid enough to live off where mortgages were hard to get but were also realistic. Now they expect the next generation to just suck it up.

This is Ireland 2018

Ah go way would you? An objection means nothing if its not valid. We had heaps of random objections when we were building, all overruled by planning. People can object away to their hearts content. 

I thought the Mé feiners were the bunch of people who buy luxury goods ahead of necessities. Those who buy 1000 euro smartphones.. or worse on a daft contract,  designer handbags, hair/grooming appointments costing what you'd feed a family of 4 on, cars on PCP, travel abroad on holiday every year, ridiculous faffy coffees, an addiction to cocktails, G+Ts or antipodean wine... and wah wah wah can't afford somewhere to live, don't have health insurance or a pension.  
They enjoy giving out about those who "have" a house of their own, failing to remember those people worked, spent on needs rather than wants, saved, and paid their taxes on every damn thing they own. 
General rule of thumb...  The self-made wealthy buy necessities first.

Franz Von Peppercorn

pwurple wrote: »

Ah go way would you? An objection means nothing if its not valid. We had heaps of random objections when we were building, all overruled by planning. People can object away to their hearts content. 

I thought the Mé feiners were the bunch of people who buy luxury goods ahead of necessities. Those who buy 1000 euro smartphones.. or worse on a daft contract,  designer handbags, hair/grooming appointments costing what you'd feed a family of 4 on, cars on PCP, travel abroad on holiday every year, ridiculous faffy coffees, an addiction to cocktails, G+Ts or antipodean wine... and wah wah wah can't afford somewhere to live, don't have health insurance or a pension.  
They enjoy giving out about those who "have" a house of their own, failing to remember those people worked, spent on needs rather than wants, saved, and paid their taxes on every damn thing they own. 
General rule of thumb...  The self-made wealthy buy necessities first.

You should tell that to Elton John. The wealthy spend lots of money.

You seem to be implying here that the 20-30 year olds who cant afford houses are the ones spending like that. I doubt it given the fact that they wouldn’t have much disposable income.

Now during the boom house holders did spend like that as they had “equity in their property” and released it by remortgaging or just kept the credit card on the never never. After all what’s a 20k on a credit card if you have 200k equity in your house?

Andy Magic

pwurple wrote: »

Ah go way would you? An objection means nothing if its not valid. We had heaps of random objections when we were building, all overruled by planning. People can object away to their hearts content. 

I thought the Mé feiners were the bunch of people who buy luxury goods ahead of necessities. Those who buy 1000 euro smartphones.. or worse on a daft contract,  designer handbags, hair/grooming appointments costing what you'd feed a family of 4 on, cars on PCP, travel abroad on holiday every year, ridiculous faffy coffees, an addiction to cocktails, G+Ts or antipodean wine... and wah wah wah can't afford somewhere to live, don't have health insurance or a pension.  
They enjoy giving out about those who "have" a house of their own, failing to remember those people worked, spent on needs rather than wants, saved, and paid their taxes on every damn thing they own. 
General rule of thumb...  The self-made wealthy buy necessities first.

Nah that just sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder.

Heres Johnny

Experience_day wrote: »

Kitty6277 wrote: »

I mean, 30K is a decent enough sum of money, I find it awful that you can do everything "right", get a decent job, but then you can't afford to actually live off it because rent etc., is so expensive :rolleyes:

I wouldn't say 30k is a decent salary by anyone's imagination. Maybe a low paid grad job but you'd be expecting a lot more than that fairly soon after...

And stands to reason that it therefore wouldn't be sufficient to live in a nice place in the city, compromises would have to be made...

30k will put you comfortably in the top half of the country. It won't mean your wealthy but most people in services sector or working in SMEs earn no more than that

Franz Von Peppercorn

Heres Johnny wrote: »

30k will put you comfortably in the top half of the country. It won't mean your wealthy but most people in services sector or working in SMEs earn no more than that

I don’t think it’s the top 50% of wage earners. It may be the top 50% of income.

Experience_day

Heres Johnny wrote: »

30k will put you comfortably in the top half of the country. It won't mean your wealthy but most people in services sector or working in SMEs earn no more than that

Stats for that? Seems frighteningly low if that's the case!

Bubbaclaus

Heres Johnny wrote: »

30k will put you comfortably in the top half of the country. It won't mean your wealthy but most people in services sector or working in SMEs earn no more than that

30k is well below both the average and median wage in Ireland.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

30k is well below both the average and median wage in Ireland.

According to this it’s 32k

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/super-rich-or-super-angry-where-are-you-on-ireland-s-income-pyramid-1.2104861?mode=amp

Median earnings are estimated at €28,500 last year for all those at work. So half of those at work – 964,000 people – earned less than €28,500 and half earned more. For full-time workers, median earnings were estimated at €32,000 in gross income. The minimum adult wage of €8.65 an hour, unchanged since 2007, equates to an annual wage of €17,542

Makes the property prices seem even madder.

Bubbaclaus

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

According to this it’s 32k

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/super-rich-or-super-angry-where-are-you-on-ireland-s-income-pyramid-1.2104861?mode=amp

That's 3 years old also so will have gone up a decent bit since then given the economic climate.

Fitz*

I'm nearly 28. Have a girlfriend but can't afford to live together. Live in different parts of the city. She lives at home, I rent.

If I wanted to buy a house, in say 3 years time, I won't be able to. I have some savings but nowhere near enough to buy a house.

I will probably have to leave the country for a few years to try work up some money for a deposit on a house anywhere near the city we both currently live and work in.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

That's 3 years old also so will have gone up a decent bit since then given the economic climate.

Naw. Wages are not really increasing that much. 1-3 % a year.

Heres Johnny

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Naw. Wages are not really increasing that much. 1-3 % a year.

Correct. More people are working but wage inflation is pretty stagnant. Wages as a whole cant grow when there is a huge supply of labour as there was in last few years. Talk of wages increases this year though but there will be no big jump.

kaymin

Andy Magic wrote: »

I blame the mé féin generation, mostly people in there late 40's, 50's and some 60's who own there own house which they bought for under €100k but now want it to be worth half a million or more. These are the same people who will object to any house or apartment block being built anywhere near them as it will de-value there home they own which they want the value to keep going up.

The country has been good to this generation, they lived in Ireland in a different time, they worked in jobs that were secure and paid enough to live off where mortgages were hard to get but were also realistic. Now they expect the next generation to just suck it up.

This is Ireland 2018

Your chip on the shoulder is misdirected. FG sold off all of the property assets to vulture funds who now hold the population to ransom with sky high rents. How else could Kennedy Wilson afford to pay its executives $20m a year. Blame the voters that voted in these clowns.

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/news/2015/10/28/top-paid-women-executives/7.html

jay0109

Pugzilla wrote: »

Lack of high rise buildings in Irish cities is one of the big problems.

True.

Open borders both within the EU and pretty much outside the EU are a major factor too.
Look at all those overcrowded houses you keep reading about in the papers...stacked with Brazilian 'students'. Or the housing lists ...a few years ago Fingals list was found to be 50% non-nationals (1/2 EU nationals and the other 1/2 former asylum seekers).

Dublin is a small but wealthy city in an open border zone of 500m people.
So when times are good we're going to have tens of thousands moving here both illegally and legally.
And when times are bad, some of them will leave and the flows in will stop leading to falling rents and negative equity. At which point landlords get into financial trouble (and maybe the banks too) and the Govt intervene.

So either way we're caught- a major shortage or a major glut of property. Thats the future

pwurple

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

pwurple wrote: »

Ah go way would you? An objection means nothing if its not valid. We had heaps of random objections when we were building, all overruled by planning. People can object away to their hearts content. 

I thought the Mé feiners were the bunch of people who buy luxury goods ahead of necessities. Those who buy 1000 euro smartphones.. or worse on a daft contract,  designer handbags, hair/grooming appointments costing what you'd feed a family of 4 on, cars on PCP, travel abroad on holiday every year, ridiculous faffy coffees, an addiction to cocktails, G+Ts or antipodean wine... and wah wah wah can't afford somewhere to live, don't have health insurance or a pension.  
They enjoy giving out about those who "have" a house of their own, failing to remember those people worked, spent on needs rather than wants, saved, and paid their taxes on every damn thing they own. 
General rule of thumb...  The self-made wealthy buy necessities first.

You should tell that to Elton John. The wealthy spend lots of money.

You seem to be implying here that the 20-30 year olds who cant afford houses are the ones spending like that. I doubt it given the fact that they wouldn’t have much disposable income.

Now during the boom house holders did spend like that as they had “equity in their property” and released it by remortgaging or just kept the credit card on the never never. After all what’s a 20k on a credit card if you have 200k equity in your house?

You misread. I said the wealthy buy necessities FIRST.  Is Elton John sleeping on the side of the road crying to the government for a free house in his gold chains? No, he already has somewhere to live. He is free to spend the rest of it however he wants.
And in my experience, plenty of the 20's and 30 year olds I work with spend it like water. Some are sensible and have the heads screwed on alright... live within their means, and set some aside as savings with a goal in mind.

Andy Magic

kaymin wrote: »

Your chip on the shoulder is misdirected. FG sold off all of the property assets to vulture funds who now hold the population to ransom with sky high rents. How else could Kennedy Wilson afford to pay its executives $20m a year. Blame the voters that voted in these clowns.

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/news/2015/10/28/top-paid-women-executives/7.html

Who do you think voted in these clowns? The exact people I was referring to!

Heres Johnny

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/central-bank-governor-warns-of-potential-fall-in-house-prices-1.3490498?mode=amp

There's the first warning shot from central bank. They may be trying to cool demand, who knows.
But the economic fundamentals are primed for a correction.
Brexit, supply coming on track albeit slowly and interest rates set to rise.
I'd say it's a probability now rather than a possibility there will be a market correction.

All those saying they can't buy due to high prices, I hope you had the foresight to save a few quid for a deposit.

Franz Von Peppercorn

pwurple wrote: »

You misread. I said the wealthy buy necessities FIRST.  Is Elton John sleeping on the side of the road crying to the government for a free house in his gold chains? No, he already has somewhere to live. He is free to spend the rest of it however he wants.
And in my experience, plenty of the 20's and 30 year olds I work with spend it like water. Some are sensible and have the heads screwed on alright... live within their means, and set some aside as savings with a goal in mind.

Of course he spends some of it it on “necessities”. He’s hardly going to spend 100k a month on shoes or whatever and then sleep rough.

I don’t get that with the 20 year olds I work with. The plus 50s are spending like water.

Franz Von Peppercorn

jay0109 wrote: »

True.

Open borders both within the EU and pretty much outside the EU are a major factor too.
Look at all those overcrowded houses you keep reading about in the papers...stacked with Brazilian 'students'. Or the housing lists ...a few years ago Fingals list was found to be 50% non-nationals (1/2 EU nationals and the other 1/2 former asylum seekers).

Dublin is a small but wealthy city in an open border zone of 500m people.
So when times are good we're going to have tens of thousands moving here both illegally and legally.
And when times are bad, some of them will leave and the flows in will stop leading to falling rents and negative equity. At which point landlords get into financial trouble (and maybe the banks too) and the Govt intervene.

So either way we're caught- a major shortage or a major glut of property. Thats the future

True the business cycle is amplified.

bri007

I don’t know many people who had a salary increase in the last 2-3 years, or if they have it wasn’t significant at all! I don’t know about every sector, but most friends and family work across different sectors and they have had no increases! I know one or two working in engineering who had increased but it wasn’t anything life changing or significant for getting a mortgage etc.

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

That's 3 years old also so will have gone up a decent bit since then given the economic climate.

onrail

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

No. In some parts of the English speaking world and China.

Prices falling in Britain:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/10/celebrate-house-prices-falling-britain-property-values

I'll refine my comment - similar patterns of rent increases can be seen in several cities globally.

:rolleyes:

onrail

listermint wrote: »

That is ridiculous.


I mean why would you bother Auckland is a bit if a kip by southern hemisphere standards.not very many redeeming features

Wouldn't change it - love the place! More for the surroundings than the city itself, but give me Aucks over Sydney any day

Geuze

Heres Johnny wrote: »

30k will put you comfortably in the top half of the country. It won't mean your wealthy but most people in services sector or working in SMEs earn no more than that

Mean earnings for FT workers are 45k.

Median earnings are 40k approx.