Migration Megathread

James Brown

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

1/10 poor attempt.

The RCC is very far from perfect, but has been the majority for multiple, upon multiple of generations.

What your suggesting, indeed encouraging is the 'forced replacement of the majority' with a somewhat backwards 'minority'. The way the world works, is that it is made up of many countries, each with their own sovereign borders, languages, laws, traditions and culture.

Unless your suggesting the cleansing of modern western cultures and the forced, unwanted imposition of other slightly backward medieval cultures, just for the sake of it.

Maybe you would be first in line to help burn artworks, scultpures and any iconology as ISIS has done in Syria?

Your 'random and somewhat desperate' point regarding wealth distribution, has little to do with culture, but rather global fiscal policy and habits of the super-rich like the Sultans of SA who are often seen blocking Harrods with their supercars.

Ireland already offers more in charity and direct overseas aid than perhaps any other nation per head.

What do you think I'm attempting here? I'm merely pointing out that things change at the behest of the majority. Do you disagree?
I'm also pointing out that we must accept that. Not sure what you're grading against.
Again, if 'backward thinking' people are unwilling to follow the wishes of the majority, that's when you get bigotry and groups not unlike ISIS. The only difference being shown here is wanting to act now in case you end up in the position of minority. Do you not see how this is preemptive, but one in the same?
Change can be scary.

recedite wrote: »

What entire people? What same characteristics?

We are not talking about a race of people here. We are talking about an ideology.
There are rules and laws about everything. Its called sharia.
People who follow the rules are not extremists. They are simply followers of Islam, doing it right.

That's a cop out. You are talking about an entire people with a belief system and comparing them to a tiny minority of criminals who claim to have a similar belief system.

weisses

splashuum wrote: »

It’s very unfortunate that some Boards.is users will not even read the OP’s original thread starting post before commenting and asking answered questions.

Don't try to be a smart arse ...you created a thread and then couldn't be bothered to participate in it for the next 3 months

I dont care about Steyn ..You wanted our opinion ... Now I asked for your opinion

recedite

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's a cop out. You are talking about an entire people with a belief system and comparing them to a tiny minority of criminals who claim to have a similar belief system.

No I am not, I am talking about multiple different "peoples" sharing one ideology, (or to be more precise, a couple of different interpretations of the one ideology)

SnakePlissken

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's a cop out. You are talking about an entire people with a belief system and comparing them to a tiny minority of criminals who claim to have a similar belief system.

When polled, a majority of UK Muslims stated it that was their belief that acts of homosexuality should be criminalised. If we're to speak truthfully and openly about Islam, we can no longer pretend it's only "a tiny minority" who hold abhorrent stone-aged views.

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Thread re-opened. One poster has been banned for making personal attacks.

James Brown

recedite wrote: »

No I am not, I am talking about multiple different "peoples" sharing one ideology, (or to be more precise, a couple of different interpretations of the one ideology)

Yes. You are taking a small element of a huge group and assigning their views and actions to that huge group because they all claim to follow the same faith even though the vast majority of that group openly disagree with that small element. If one Christian stabs a man because he believes it's what Jesus said in the bible, should we look at all Christians?

James Brown

SnakePlissken wrote: »

When polled, a majority of UK Muslims stated it that was their belief that acts of homosexuality should be criminalised. If we're to speak truthfully and openly about Islam, we can no longer pretend it's only "a tiny minority" who hold abhorrent stone-aged views.

And so it was in England up to 1967, Scotland up to 1981 and N. Ireland up to 1982 and of course Ireland up to 1993.

So, y'know...the monsters...

gozunda

splashuum wrote: »

As creator of this thread, I never once used the word immigration in the opening post. To suggest this thread is solely about immigration would be false. I intended for people to reasonably discuss the potential dangers, impacts etc of what Steyn talks about. Immigration is certainly one of these topics but is not limited to such.

In addition the "nobody knows" part are not my words but the words of the author Steyn, who included it in the articles title. If we are to civilly discuss the statistics in the article, it suggests we are being vastly out-bred by the muslim population. If this is to be true, that obviously means we will have a much much larger muslim population in the EU, which inevitably means a much higher risk of islamic based attacks. If you look at Poland for instance, They have had zero terror attacks mainly down to strict policies implemented by the government.
I didn't intend or want terror attacks to be the main topic of conversation in this thread but the topic certainly qualifies for discussion.

As long as such attacks continue and become part of the life in many countries in Europe - they remain an area of concern imo.

Irish tourists have been asked to be on high alert following the tragic shooting at a Christmas market in France.

Two people were killed and 14 injured during an attack in Strasbourg on Tuesday night.

The Department of Foreign Affairs in Dublin is asking Irish citizens abroad to follow instructions from the local authorities.

The French authorities' main suspect is 29-year-old Cherif Chekatt, who was known to have been religiously radicalised while in jail.

It's understood the French citizen, who is from Strasbourg, shouted "Alluh Akbar" during the incident.

The man, who is now on the run, has had 27 previous convictions.

The alleged attacker, was wielding a gun and knife, and officers have begun a manhunt across several European countries.

Irish embassies in Europe say they are monitoring the situation, and that the risk of a terror attack in Spain is considered to be "high".

A spokesperson said: "There is a general threat from terrorism in Europe, and the threat in Spain is considered to be high.

"While there is a risk of indiscriminate attacks, targets could include areas frequented by tourists.

"Since 2015 the Spanish Government’s national anti-terror alert level is at four on a scale of 1 to 5; this has not changed following the attacks of August 2017.

"Irish citizens should increase their security awareness and exercise heightened caution in popular tourist locations and crowded places, as terrorists are likely to attempt further attacks."

The Department of Foreign Affairs is also warning of potential attacks in Germany and The Netherlands.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-tourists-france-terrorist-attack-13729078

weisses

SnakePlissken wrote: »

When polled, a majority of UK Muslims stated it that was their belief that acts of homosexuality should be criminalised. If we're to speak truthfully and openly about Islam, we can no longer pretend it's only "a tiny minority" who hold abhorrent stone-aged views.

What is the view of the pope ?

oscarBravo

recedite wrote: »

Your mistake is in thinking Islam is only a religion.
It is that, but more importantly it is an ideology.

One that is incompatible with secularism, democracy, liberalism, feminism, gay rights, equal rights, freedom of religion, free speech, or basically any values that that western civilisation holds dear.

I must tell my Muslim friends that they subscribe to an ideology that is incompatible with secularism, democracy, liberalism, feminism, gay rights, equal rights, freedom of religion, free speech, or basically any values that western civilisation holds dear.

When they're finished bursting their holes laughing at me, they'll ask where I got that pile of steaming crap from. I'll have to explain to them that some self-proclaimed expert on the Internet knows more about their beliefs than they do.

tretorn

oscarBravo wrote: »

I must tell my Muslim friends that they subscribe to an ideology that is incompatible with secularism, democracy, liberalism, feminism, gay rights, equal rights, freedom of religion, free speech, or basically any values that western civilisation holds dear.

When they're finished bursting their holes laughing at me, they'll ask where I got that pile of steaming crap from. I'll have to explain to them that some self-proclaimed expert on the Internet knows more about their beliefs than they do.

Your Muslim friends already know what the subscribe too so why tell them you have a problem with their leaders encouraging the murder of homoesexuals or the shooting dead of young women who want to dress as they please.

I see the Strasbourg terrorist has convictions since his early teens, he was born in a Western European country and has convictions in about three different countries, here we go in another twenty years with all those toddlers Merkel allowed in. They will have the right to travel around Europe unimpeded like the cretin now being sought in Strasbourg. France has been utterly destroyed as a country, who would have thought in 2018 that we would see armed soldiers at Christmas Markets, places where families bring young children. MUlticulturalism my arse.

8-10

tretorn wrote: »

Your Muslim friends already know what the subscribe too so why tell them you have a problem with their leaders encouraging the murder of homoesexuals

Their leaders? Example?

oscarBravo

tretorn wrote: »

Your Muslim friends already know what the subscribe too so why tell them you have a problem with their leaders encouraging the murder of homoesexuals or the shooting dead of young women who want to dress as they please.

Um, OK. Who are your leaders, as a matter of interest?

SnakePlissken

weisses wrote: »

What is the view of the pope ?

I'm glad you asked, this is what he had to say some years ago;

"If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?"

So, whilst I don't believe we'll see him knocking back shandies in the George this weekend, you'll have to concede his viewpoint is fair more progressive than the majority of Muslims.

SnakePlissken

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If one Christian stabs a man

But we're not talking about one man are we?Don't be so disingenuous as to pretend we're not talking of a near two decades of abhorrent attacks against children at music concerts and families on beaches.

If thousands of innocents had been killed in the name of Christianity, don't dare pretend there would be a major discussion to be had.

SnakePlissken

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'll have to explain to them that some self-proclaimed expert on the Internet knows more about their beliefs than they do.

After they've stopped laughing, why not ask them their thoughts on the many polls taken in the UK highlighting homophobic ideologies, or perhaps ask them, if Islam is indeed so compatible with secularism, gender equality, and LGTB rights, why then are there so few, if indeed any, Muslim majority nations practicing same?

oscarBravo

SnakePlissken wrote: »

After they've stopped laughing, why not ask them their thoughts on the many polls taken in the UK highlighting homophobic ideologies, or perhaps ask them, if Islam is indeed so compatible with secularism, gender equality, and LGTB rights, why then are there so few, if indeed any, Muslim majority nations practicing same?

Why not?

You're seriously asking me why I don't badger my Muslim friends to defend the views of people they don't know and have never met? You're asking my why I don't ask my Muslim friends about countries they don't live in and have quite likely never visited?

Do you have any Muslim friends?

SnakePlissken

oscarBravo wrote: »

You're seriously asking me why I don't badger my Muslim friends

Badger? No, as it was you who entered your friends into the discussion I'm merely suggesting you have an adult conversation about the topic with them, as you appear incredibly naive if you believe Islam is synonymous with secularism, gender equality, and LGBT rights.

oscarBravo

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Badger? No, as it was you who entered your friends into the discussion I'm merely suggesting you have an adult conversation about the topic with them, as you appear incredibly naive if you believe Islam is synonymous with secularism, gender equality, and LGBT rights.

You might do me a favour and point out the post where I claimed to believe that Islam is synonymous with secularism, gender equality, and LGBT rights.

SnakePlissken

oscarBravo wrote: »

You might do me a favour and point out the post where I claimed to believe that Islam is synonymous with secularism, gender equality, and LGBT rights.

No problem, by stating your Muslim friends might find it laughable that Islam is associated with incompatability with these beliefs you are quite clearly inferring the opposite is true;

oscarBravo wrote: »

I must tell my Muslim friends that they subscribe to an ideology that is incompatible with secularism, democracy, liberalism, feminism, gay rights, equal rights, freedom of religion, free speech, or basically any values that western civilisation holds dear.

When they're finished bursting their holes laughing at me, they'll ask where I got that pile of steaming crap from. I'll have to explain to them that some self-proclaimed expert on the Internet knows more about their beliefs than they do.

WinnyThePoo

oscarBravo wrote: »

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Badger? No, as it was you who entered your friends into the discussion I'm merely suggesting you have an adult conversation about the topic with them, as you appear incredibly naive if you believe Islam is synonymous with secularism, gender equality, and LGBT rights.

You might do me a favour and point out the post where I claimed to believe that Islam is synonymous with secularism, gender equality, and LGBT rights.

There is this completely insane idea that the Muslim world and the Muslims that inhabit it are in a hive mind.

That terrorism is the responsibility of every single Muslim you know or I know.

I can only call it stupidity because that's exactly what it is.

SnakePlissken

Matt Barrett wrote: »

And so it was in England up to 1967, Scotland up to 1981 and N. Ireland up to 1982 and of course Ireland up to 1993.

I'm glad you took the opportunity to use Wikipedia as it only reinforces my point; that homosexuality was rightfully decriminalised in England over a half a century ago, yet when polled, a majority of English Muslims disagree with this decision, shines a light on the ugly truth that is the Islam's views on the LGTB community.

And no for some Catholic Church whataboutery in...

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oscarBravo

SnakePlissken wrote: »

No problem, by stating your Muslim friends might find it laughable that Islam is associated with incompatability with these beliefs you are quite clearly inferring the opposite is true;

So either Muslims are incapable of subscribing to western liberal values, or Islam is synonymous with western liberal values, and there are no other possibilities?

If you really need me to point out why that argument is painfully devoid of logic, I will. I really hope I don't have to.

SnakePlissken

oscarBravo wrote: »

So either Muslims are incapable of subscribing to western liberal values, or Islam is synonymous with western liberal values, and there are no other possibilities?

If you really need me to point out why that argument is painfully devoid of logic, I will. I really hope I don't have to.

Please do.

oscarBravo

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Please do.

Oh dear.

"Incompatible" and "synonymous" are not antonyms. If it's untrue that A is incompatible with B, that doesn't make A synonymous with B. It's possible for A and B to be neither incompatible nor synonymous.

I find it hard to believe you didn't already know that.

James Brown

SnakePlissken wrote: »

But we're not talking about one man are we?Don't be so disingenuous as to pretend we're not talking of a near two decades of abhorrent attacks against children at music concerts and families on beaches.

If thousands of innocents had been killed in the name of Christianity, don't dare pretend there would be a major discussion to be had.

You missed the point. A hundred or a thousand, it's the same point. If there was a spokesperson for all Muslims, like the RCC has the Pope and he said lets all start murdering people of different faiths, (like many a Pope has in the past) and people signed up for that, then you'd have a point. The only conversation we need to keep having is explaining to people like your good self that the actions of one group of people are not the actions of another group because they all claim to follow the same faith, albeit in a different manner. It's basic stuff really. It's groups like ISIS. How come every Muslim isn't a card carrying member of ISIS or as a matter of fact, why bother having an ISIS at all if they are already all the same?
I hope you're proud of the Birmingham pub bombing. I assume you are Irish, or does that not count because it's not religious?

James Brown

SnakePlissken wrote: »

I'm glad you took the opportunity to use Wikipedia as it only reinforces my point; that homosexuality was rightfully decriminalised in England over a half a century ago, yet when polled, a majority of English Muslims disagree with this decision, shines a light on the ugly truth that is the Islam's views on the LGTB community.

And no for some Catholic Church whataboutery in...

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You've a talent for missing the point. It was used to show how different their values are. I showed that they weren't so different, try fudge it as you might. I suppose 1993 is long ago in some minds.

SnakePlissken

oscarBravo wrote: »

"Incompatible" and "synonymous" are not antonyms. If it's untrue that A is incompatible with B, that doesn't make A synonymous with B. It's possible for A and B to be neither incompatible nor synonymous.

So you are conceding that Islam is not known for its tolerance for the LGBT community and women's rights, why then would you claim your "Muslim friends" might find it so achingly funny as to someone's suspicions that they might share these same stone-aged views?

I'm not for a moment suggesting all Muslims are misogynist homophobes, but when a majority are proved to subscribe to same**, the minority must accept that one could wrongly presume they hold these views.

** If you believe homosexuality should be criminilised, I don't care of the context, I don't care of the religion, you're a homophobe, accept it.

Midlife

SnakePlissken wrote: »

If you believe homosexuality should be criminilised, I don't care of the context, I don't care of the religion, you're a homophobe, accept it.

Absolutely. No-one could disagree with that.

Should we do something to try and stop letting the people of Roscommon out of Roscommon and into the rest of Ireland?

SnakePlissken

Midlife wrote: »

Absolutely. No-one could disagree with that.

Should we do something to try and stop letting the people of Roscommon out of Roscommon and into the rest of Ireland?

I say we tow it somewhere in the middle of the atlantic.