Migration Megathread

pearcider

Podge_irl wrote: »

Or perhaps women just want to work and not be stuck at home raising a family?

I contest that. Sure lots of women don’t want kids but most do. And most mothers only work out of economic necessity. It kills them to leave their babies in crèches where the kids aren’t going to get the care and attention they deserve. Which brings me back to the economics of it. Now in the west, you need two parents to work to live the middle class life that only a generation ago, one bread winner could provide. It wasn’t always so. It was a rich mans trick.

Sand

Podge_irl wrote: »

Or perhaps women just want to work and not be stuck at home raising a family?

If that were true, actual fertility would mirror surveys of ideal or desired numbers of children, instead of falling significantly below it. Even if it were true, it would be a fairly damning indictment of a society which is unwilling to reproduce itself. Our societies social welfare systems are based on the assumption there will always be another generation of young adults large enough to provide for the older generation.

Falling fertility rates presumably have more to do with the increasing economic insecurity faced by young adults. The Italian fertility rate of 1.35 is likely heavily connected to the economic insecurity that means two thirds of Italian millennials live with their parents. You can hardly raise your own family until you have left your parents home.

ancapailldorcha

Low quality posts and video dump deleted.

splashuum

What qualifies as a low quality post?

ancapailldorcha

splashuum wrote: »

What qualifies as a low quality post?

Mod: One-liners, quips, memes and posting links without any comment on them. The charter should explain this.

ancapailldorcha

Any more sniping will be met with a ban. Off topic posts deleted.

Podge_irl

pearcider wrote: »

I contest that. Sure lots of women don’t want kids but most do. And most mothers only work out of economic necessity. It kills them to leave their babies in crèches where the kids aren’t going to get the care and attention they deserve. Which brings me back to the economics of it. Now in the west, you need two parents to work to live the middle class life that only a generation ago, one bread winner could provide. It wasn’t always so. It was a rich mans trick.

You can both want kids and want to keep working. Women in the workplace is not a failing and is not a state conspiracy to have kids in creches where they can be indoctrinated.

For a lot of women in the workplace going back to work and having to pay for the requisite childcare because of it does not even end up being economically advantageous.

ShauntaMetzel

Isn't it a better idea to motivate female Christian Americans to have more children? Or what?

James Brown

Migrant crisis: Illegal entries to EU at lowest level in five years


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46764500

I suppose the socially concerned will need move back to blaming the homegrown sick and poor for their troubles.

Dannyriver

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I suppose the socially concerned will need move back to blaming the homegrown sick and poor for their troubles.

Or else harp on about fake news and the MSM ... 'chicken licken the sky is falling down'

ancapailldorcha

Mod: This thread isn't supposed to be a discussion of the Islamic faith beyond the scope of immigration. Post deleted.

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

I've removed a few more posts. Please don't comment on cases that are currently before the courts.

Thanks

Midlife

ShauntaMetzel wrote: »

Isn't it a better idea to motivate female Christian Americans to have more children? Or what?

Or you could just ignore the nonsense about population rates. People of the islamic faith aren't just going to keep having children when they come to europe or when their own countries develop. Like everyone else, they'll go for smaller families.

They said the same thing about Irish families when they first went to the US.

fash

Midlife wrote: »

Or you could just ignore the nonsense about population rates. People of the islamic faith aren't just going to keep having children when they come to europe or when their own countries develop. Like everyone else, they'll go for smaller families.

They said the same thing about Irish families when they first went to the US.

That doesn't necessarily apply to the highly religious- such as orthodox Jews in Israel or Amish (and to a lesser extent Mormons) in the US who retain exceptionally high rates of reproduction. In Israel the extent to which the orthodox population is growing is beginning to affect the state.

Midlife

fash wrote: »

That doesn't necessarily apply to the highly religious- such as orthodox Jews in Israel or Amish (and to a lesser extent Mormons) in the US who retain exceptionally high rates of reproduction. In Israel the extent to which the orthodox population is growing is beginning to affect the state.

No doubt they'll see sense once it becomes impractical.

fash

Midlife wrote: »

No doubt they'll see sense once it becomes impractical.

Sure that is what religion had always been about.

AllForIt

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0201/1027042-muslim-community-in-ireland-mark-world-hijab-day/

Have you ever heard anything so aburd in all your life. World Hijab day.

Ppl talk in the west of their objections to it, that somehow it represents the subjugation of women in the Muslim world etc etc.

But my objection to it is not for any of those reasons. Not that I think the hijab should be banned, but the Burka, absolutely.

It is the genuine religious reason they say they wear it. They talk in riddles when asked why they wear it. Modesty and being closer to God. What does this mean in real terms. I think it's best explained by making an analogy about walking naked in public.

Imagine if a woman walked around in public naked. You'd be the subject of attention to all sorts of perverts, the filthyminded and subject to lewd remarks if not actual sexual predatory assault. This is what they really mean. They talk as if society is inherently unclean, scum everywhere, and to expose yourself in this way is about as far away from Allah as you can get.

What kind of attitude does this exemplify about those who wear the hijab. It shows what they really think of the western world. Women who walk around in public naked, showing themselves off like a whore. Unclean, lewd, promiscuous. God forbid any male should check out a woman on the street and fancy her. As if they have been violated by sight alone.

What is most worrying to me is that RTE for the second time I have seen have reported of the rise of Islam in this country as if it were to be something to be celebrated. Given our recent history, the demise of Christianity, we have on the other hand a celebration of the rise of Islam, a religion that is the most strict in the world and shows no sign whatsoever of modifying/modernizing their stringent beliefs in accordance with western values. Muslims have no intention of changing their views on anything, not only those still living in their own country but even those living in the west for decades. It's quite extraordinary to me that there are those who have no concern about this whatsoever, as if as long as it's multiculturalism that's all that matters. Madness.

swarlb

AllForIt wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0201/1027042-muslim-community-in-ireland-mark-world-hijab-day/

Have you ever heard anything so aburd in all your life. World Nijab day.

Ppl talk in the west of their objections to it, that somehow it represents the subjugation of women in the Muslim world etc etc.

But my objection to it is not for any of those reasons. Not that I think the hijab should be banned, but the Burka, absolutely.

It is the genuine religious reason they say they wear it. They talk in riddles when asked why they wear it. Modesty and being closer to God. What does this mean in real terms. I think it's best explained by making an analogy about walking naked in public.

Imagine if a woman walked around in public naked. You'd be the subject of attention to all sorts of perverts, the filthyminded and subject to lewd remarks if not actual sexual predatory assault. This is what they really mean. They talk as if society is inherently unclean, scum everywhere, and to expose yourself in this way is about as far away from Allah as you can get.

What kind of attitude does this exemplify about those who wear the hijab. It shows what they really think of the western world. Women who walk around in public naked, showing themselves off like a whore. Unclean, lewd, promiscuous. God forbid any male should check out a woman on the street and fancy her. As if they have been violated by sight alone.

What is most worrying to me is that RTE for the second time I have seen have reported of the rise of Islam in this country as if it were to be something to be celebrated. Given our recent history, the demise of Christianity, we have on the other hand a celebration of the rise of Islam, a religion that is the most strict in the world and shows no sign whatsoever of modifying/modernizing their stringent beliefs in accordance with western values. Muslims have no intention of changing their views on anything, not only those still living in their own country but even those living in the west for decades. It's quite extraordinary to me that there are those who have no concern about this whatsoever, as if as long as it's multiculturalism that's all that matters. Madness.

I think more people in Ireland today are disgruntled today that we were soundly beaten in a Rugby match, rather than any 'takeover by Muslims'
Anyway, it wasn't that long ago in Ireland that women more or less were obliged to wear a scarf (Irish for Hijab) when attending Mass.

AllForIt

swarlb wrote: »

I think more people in Ireland today are disgruntled today that we were soundly beaten in a Rugby match, rather than any 'takeover by Muslims'
Anyway, it wasn't that long ago in Ireland that women more or less were obliged to wear a scarf (Irish for Hijab) when attending Mass.

Pfffff. Rugby? What a reply to my post. I'm not most ppl and I couldn't care less about Rugby. How odd incidentally that your so nationalist about bloody sport but you couldn't care less about the more serious issues that effect your country. Gob-smacked by your reply. Sport :rolleyes:

ancapailldorcha

AllForIt wrote: »

Pfffff. Rugby? What a reply to my post. I'm not most ppl and I couldn't care less about Rugby. How odd incidentally that your so nationalist about bloody sport but you couldn't care less about the more serious issues that effect your country. Gob-smacked by your reply. Sport :rolleyes:

Cut out the snarky responses. Please read the charter before posting again.

swarlb

AllForIt wrote: »

Pfffff. Rugby? What a reply to my post. I'm not most ppl and I couldn't care less about Rugby. How odd incidentally that your so nationalist about bloody sport but you couldn't care less about the more serious issues that effect your country. Gob-smacked by your reply. Sport :rolleyes:

Calm down a bit there... Ireland is far from being 'taken over' by Muslims, and there are far more serious issues affecting the country than scarf wearing or mat kneeling people of a certain religion.
And it's certainly not odd by any means to hope that your country can do well in the sporting arena.

sandbelter

AllForIt wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0201/1027042-muslim-community-in-ireland-mark-world-hijab-day/

Have you ever heard anything so aburd in all your life. World Nijab day.

Ppl talk in the west of their objections to it, that somehow it represents the subjugation of women in the Muslim world etc etc.

But my objection to it is not for any of those reasons. Not that I think the hijab should be banned, but the Burka, absolutely.

It is the genuine religious reason they say they wear it. They talk in riddles when asked why they wear it. Modesty and being closer to God. What does this mean in real terms. I think it's best explained by making an analogy about walking naked in public.

I was in Iran for a while before the revolution. The Shia Mullah's were quite clear about the Chador being introduced, it was an explicit rejection of secular values and upholding Islamic values. The Sunni equivalent was the siege of the Mosque in Mecca. Both reflected a return to Islamic rather than secular values and with it a downgrade in women rights. It also speaks volumes that in Both Saudi Arabia and Iran, the religious police enforce the ban.

I don't think we should attempt to enforce a mandatory ban, our history shows that attempts to force some to reject the religion are generally unsuccessful.

But normalizing the hijab/chador is a step too far as well, it a wedge and it's core a rejection of secularism, history has shown that doesn't work out to well.

sandbelter

ShauntaMetzel wrote: »

Isn't it a better idea to motivate female Christian Americans to have more children? Or what?

Actually the birth rate in Muslims counties has collapsed over the last two decades. In 2015 in Iran it was 1.66 (6.23 in 1985), Saudi 2.09 in 2018 (6.66 in 1985), Turkey is at replacement level of 2.05 (3.74 in 1985) and the high birthrate of the Kurds means the Turks will be a minority on there own country soon. In SE Asia Indonesia is currently 2.05 and it's the Christian east that has the highest birthrate, Christianity will proportionally double in Indonesia over the next 20 years. Bangadesh is 2.10, lower than India's 2.33. Qatar and UAE both have lower birth rates than Ireland.

All research point to European Muslims having the same demographic bust. I'd point out, Islam is actually quite tolerant both of the pill and abortion.

Research on this area is sparse, but is suggestive that that poor Muslims, like poor working class Christians, don't have children because they can't afford them.

AllForIt

swarlb wrote: »

Calm down a bit there... Ireland is far from being 'taken over' by Muslims, and there are far more serious issues affecting the country than scarf wearing or mat kneeling people of a certain religion.
And it's certainly not odd by any means to hope that your country can do well in the sporting arena.

Your previous reply to me didn't address a single thing I said which is odd because you quoted me. Your comments are addressing the thread headline which I didn't write.

You know perfectly well that this thread has become a general discussion of the rise of Islam in the western world including Ireland.

I saw in the news today that there is an Irish womens international rugby team. Do you think there is any possibility of a Muslim womens rugby team. Or maybe the sight of a woman wearing shorts and short sleeved vests in public is an affront to their religion.

swarlb

AllForIt wrote: »

Your previous reply to me didn't address a single thing I said which is odd because you quoted me. Your comments are addressing the thread headline which I didn't write.

You know perfectly well that this thread has become a general discussion of the rise of Islam in the western world including Ireland.

I saw in the news today that there is an Irish womens international rugby team. Do you think there is any possibility of a Muslim womens rugby team. Or maybe the sight of a woman wearing shorts and short sleeved vests in public is an affront to their religion.

There was a time when there was no Irish women's international rugby team, there was a time when women wearing shorts and short sleeved vests was an affront to public decency, so possibly sometime in the future there well may be a Muslim woman's rugby team, who really knows ?

The Specialist

swarlb wrote: »

There was a time when there was no Irish women's international rugby team, there was a time when women wearing shorts and short sleeved vests was an affront to public decency, so possibly sometime in the future there well may be a Muslim woman's rugby team, who really knows ?

Judging by Islam’s current rate of catching up with modern societies and thinking, that will only take about 6000 years.

creeper1

Any religion that didn't encourage passing on the religious message to the next generation would have perished long ago.

Again someone is on here posting about Islamic birthrates falling. The evidence from a walk around the streets in European capitals would show the opposite. whether from immigration or birthrates our European capitals are becoming unrecognizable from what they once were.

How long can the church last in Ireland or Europe? Priests ordination is at an extraordinary low levels.

You may cheer this but atheism doesn't fill the void left by that. Islam fills that void.

Timberrrrrrrr

creeper1 wrote: »

Any religion that didn't encourage passing on the religious message to the next generation would have perished long ago.

Again someone is on here posting about Islamic birthrates falling. The evidence from a walk around the streets in European capitals would show the opposite. whether from immigration or birthrates our European capitals are becoming unrecognizable from what they once were.

How long can the church last in Ireland or Europe? Priests ordination is at an extraordinary low levels.

You may cheer this but atheism doesn't fill the void left by that. Islam fills that void.

That has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with the RCC's disgraceful past.

Midlife

creeper1 wrote: »

You may cheer this but atheism doesn't fill the void left by that. Islam fills that void.

Are you saying that Islam is going to take over from Christianity in Ireland?

swarlb

Midlife wrote: »

Are you saying that Islam is going to take over from Christianity in Ireland?

Going by the original premise of the thread, it's not only going to take over Christianity in Ireland, but 'the whole' of Europe, along with everything else we take as granted.
Expect to see women banned from driving
Pony classes for youngsters going the same way
Huge increase in the sale of veils and prayer mats
With the sheer amount of beards soon to be on view, hipsters will soon be 'the norm'
The internet sure throws up some gobbildygook from time, but this take the biscuit....(do Muslims eat biscuits ??)