Migration Megathread

peddlelies

Huge Strawman asking how do you decide if someone is European or not when the argument isn't and was never about a single individual. The honest argument is talking about culture and what values are held in that culture , i.e. European (Western) Culture vs Islamic Culture.

Brian?

peddlelies wrote: »

Huge Strawman asking how do you decide if someone is European or not when the argument isn't and was never about a single individual. The honest argument is talking about culture and what values are held in that culture , i.e. European (Western) Culture vs Islamic Culture.

I don't think either European culture or Islamic culture are anywhere near as homogeneous as you seem to think they are.

MrFresh

peddlelies wrote: »

Huge Strawman asking how do you decide if someone is European or not when the argument isn't and was never about a single individual. The honest argument is talking about culture and what values are held in that culture , i.e. European (Western) Culture vs Islamic Culture.

It seems you missed the lie which started this particular discussion.

Sand wrote: »

It is certainly safer for Europe's to protect the borders of the EU rather than permit undocumented, unknown individuals - mostly young men - illegally enter the EU and travel throughout it unimpeded. The Paris 2015 attacks were carried out by ISIS cells who took advantage of Merkels invitation to travel past the border to Germany to enter Europe from Syria, travel to Paris and murder & maim hundreds of people. If the choice is between the safety of Europeans or the supposed right of non-Europeans to seek out the best welfare state in the EU, I choose the Europeans.

Midlife

peddlelies wrote: »

Huge Strawman asking how do you decide if someone is European or not when the argument isn't and was never about a single individual. The honest argument is talking about culture and what values are held in that culture , i.e. European (Western) Culture vs Islamic Culture.

The only actual Muslim person to post on this thread spoke about how they were more free to ditch traditional authoritarian Islamic culture once they were in Europe and that it improved their life lots by removing Islamic influence from it.

I know that's one example but it's an example worth considering. The difference between me and many people on this thread is that I am aware of conformation bias.

Eric Cartman

Another fantastic account of how the islamic population of Ireland views women in Mansoor Uddin has come out today, taxi driver pled guilty to sexually assaulting multiple women and is still driving a taxi while on bail.

this in addition to the same people who are protesting brunei following sharia law and executing gay people are standing up to allow more people who believe in this barbaric practice into the country.

peddlelies

MrFresh wrote: »

It seems you missed the lie which started this particular discussion.

Not being smart, what part of what he said was a lie? Sand stated this

The Paris 2015 attacks were carried out by ISIS cells who took advantage of Merkels invitation to travel past the border to Germany to enter Europe from Syria, travel to Paris and murder & maim hundreds of people.

On 14 November, ISIL claimed responsibility for the attacks. François Hollande said ISIL organised the attacks with help from inside France.Most of the Paris attackers were French and Belgian citizens who crossed borders without difficulty, albeit registered as terrorism suspects.Two other attackers were Iraqi. According to the French prime minister, Manuel Valls, several of the perpetrators had exploited Europe's immigration crisis to enter the continent undetected. At least some, including the alleged leader Abdelhamid Abaaoud, had visited Syria and returned radicalised. Jean-Charles Brisard, a French expert on terrorism, called this a change of paradigm, in that returning European citizens were themselves the attackers.

MrFresh

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Another fantastic account of how the islamic population of Ireland views women in Mansoor Uddin has come out today, taxi driver pled guilty to sexually assaulting multiple women and is still driving a taxi while on bail.

this in addition to the same people who are protesting brunei following sharia law and executing gay people are standing up to allow more people who believe in this barbaric practice into the country.

Your judging the entire Islamic population by he actions of one person? Does that mean I can use Larry Murphy as an indication of your beliefs?

Midlife

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Another fantastic account of how the islamic population of Ireland views women in Mansoor Uddin has come out today, taxi driver pled guilty to sexually assaulting multiple women and is still driving a taxi while on bail.

this in addition to the same people who are protesting brunei following sharia law and executing gay people are standing up to allow more people who believe in this barbaric practice into the country.

and no sooner had I said conformation bias....

'How the Islamic population of ireland views women.'

That's pure hate Eric, you're better than that.

Midlife

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Another fantastic account of how the islamic population of Ireland views women in Mansoor Uddin has come out today, taxi driver pled guilty to sexually assaulting multiple women and is still driving a taxi while on bail.

this in addition to the same people who are protesting brunei following sharia law and executing gay people are standing up to allow more people who believe in this barbaric practice into the country.

To be honest Eric, i'd like you to PM me.

I'll trade details with you and arrage to introduce you to some perfectly nice Islamic people.

At this point, you can tell them how they view women.

open offer.

peddlelies

Midlife wrote: »

I know that's one example but it's an example worth considering. The difference between me and many people on this thread is that I am aware of conformation bias.

I'd never suggest they're all bad eggs or anything like it, my argument has always been if you take in large amounts of people from cultures which have different values than the Western world then inevitably problems will arise and multiply.

Did you see this story from last month? For everything feel good story there's plenty of others to counter it, which isn't what I'm trying to do really. I'd not anti immigration, I just think we should only be accepting immigrants who will integrate into our society and accept our values.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-who-regularly-sexually-abused-his-stepdaughter-claims-he-thought-it-was-ok-under-irish-law-court-hears-37949130.html

"A man who regularly sexually abused his step-daughter in the family home while her mother was working will be sentenced next month.

The Central Criminal Court heard the 42-year-old accused man, a foreign national who admitted defilement of the child, initially thought it was “OK under Irish law” but now accepts it is not."

Phil.x

It's time to build that wall....metaphorically speaking.

Midlife

peddlelies wrote: »

I'd never suggest they're all bad eggs or anything like it, my argument has always been if you take in large amounts of people from cultures which have different values than the Western world then inevitably problems will arise and multiply.

Did you see this story from last month? For everything feel good story there's plenty of others to counter it, which isn't what I'm trying to do really. I'd not anti immigration, I just think we should be accepting immigrants who will integrate into our society and accept our values.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-who-regularly-sexually-abused-his-stepdaughter-claims-he-thought-it-was-ok-under-irish-law-court-hears-37949130.html

"A man who regularly sexually abused his step-daughter in the family home while her mother was working will be sentenced next month.

The Central Criminal Court heard the 42-year-old accused man, a foreign national who admitted defilement of the child, initially thought it was “OK under Irish law” but now accepts it is not."

Yeah but he raped his 11 year old daughter.

Clearly he's a peadophile. What does that have to do with anything?

Why is that being linked to the current conversation?

ancapailldorcha

Phil.x wrote: »

It's time to build that wall....metaphorically speaking.

Mod: Please read the charter before posting again. This is a forum for serious discussion, not short posts like this.

peddlelies

Midlife wrote: »

Why is that being linked to the current conversation?

Because of the bold bit. What backwards culture would you have to come from to assume that raping a kid was OK under any legal system.

4068ac1elhodqr

MrFresh wrote: »

Your judging the entire Islamic population by he actions of one person? Does that mean I can use Larry Murphy as an indication of your beliefs?

Whataboutery?

He raised a valid point, more so an indirect question perhaps to consider.

Is the amount of sex assaults by pakistani taxi drivers significantly higher than the white irish type (population relative, and/or even industry relative)?

It could well be, there may only be what 10's of thousands of male pakistani men in Ireland? (some drive taxis, but not all), compared to millions of white irish males, yet they seem to appear in courts fairly often for these type of taxi sex attacks on young females.

The uk seems to think so, having rushed in a law last year, directly to prevent the phenomenon of asian {actually, pakistani, but the bbc won't report that} taxi groomers.

Midlife

peddlelies wrote: »

Because of the bold bit. What backwards culture would you have to come from to assume that raping a kid was OK under any legal system.

Why is it the culture? Are you suggesting everyone rapes their 11 year old daughters where he's from?


But wait a minute, he was male. So were all the peadophile priests.

Hang on so was the guy in New Zealand. So are all the other terrorists.

So are the school shooters!!!

Jesus!! It's male culture.

We really need to watch for male migration to Europe lads.


Now, why am I wrong and you're right?

I can now start a thread, keep it going for a few years and every time a man does something bad I'll link it and say

See!! See, I'm right about men.

What makes me wrong?

Midlife

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

Whataboutery?

He raised a valid point, more so an indirect question perhaps to consider.

Is the amount of sex assaults by pakistani taxi drivers significantly higher than the white irish type (population relative, and/or even industry relative)?

It could well be, there may only be what 10's of thousands of male pakistani men in Ireland? (some drive taxis, but not all), compared to millions of white irish males, yet they seem to appear in courts fairly often for these type of taxi sex attacks on young females.

The uk seems to think so, having rushed in a law last year, directly to prevent the phenomenon of asian {actually, pakistani, but the bbc won't report that} taxi groomers.

Any chance you could answer my question from earlier?

4068ac1elhodqr

Midlife wrote: »

Any chance you could answer my question from earlier?

Diversion? See previous answer 'european on paper only, with no affinity to europe of any of it's states nor citizens'. Slightly worring from 2nd generation migrants, who ideally would have integrated better.

Your turn:

Is the amount of sex assaults by pakistani taxi drivers significantly higher than the white irish type (population relative, and/or even industry relative)?

Stephen15

MrFresh wrote: »

Your judging the entire Islamic population by he actions of one person? Does that mean I can use Larry Murphy as an indication of your beliefs?

The views of Islamic extremists are all backed up by Islamic holy scripture. Not all Muslims will back up these texts with actions but the actions of Jihad are core to Islamic beliefs.

Midlife

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

Diversion? See previous answer 'european on paper only, with no affinity to europe of any of it's states nor citizens'. Slightly worring from 2nd generation migrants, who ideally would have integrated better.

Your turn:

Is the amount of sex assaults by pakistani taxi drivers significantly higher than the white irish type (population relative, and/or even industry relative)?

Not that question, you need to read my posts.

And No, unless you have evidence to the contrary.

Odhinn

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Another fantastic account of how the islamic population of Ireland views women in Mansoor Uddin has come out today, taxi driver pled guilty to sexually assaulting multiple women and is still driving a taxi while on bail.

this in addition to the same people who are protesting brunei following sharia law and executing gay people are standing up to allow more people who believe in this barbaric practice into the country.

One offender means we blame the rest of his community?

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote:

Diversion? See previous answer 'european on paper only, with no affinity to europe of any of it's states nor citizens'. Slightly worring from 2nd generation migrants, who ideally would have integrated better.

A good number of those second generation persons seem to have integrated womanising drug and alcohol use before they were radicalised.

4068ac1elhodqr

Midlife wrote: »

Not that question, you need to read my posts.

And No, unless you have evidence to the contrary.

Why say 'no'?,
Do you have evidence to support this claim that it isn't?
Please supply data.

Is the amount of sex assaults by pakistani taxi drivers significantly higher than the white irish type (population relative, and/or even industry relative)?

I'm not saying it is or isn't, am simply asking the question.
It may be worth investigating, out of curiousity and based on recent events and the phonenomena of it in the uk.

peddlelies

Midlife wrote: »

Why is it the culture? Are you suggesting everyone rapes their 11 year old daughters where he's from?


But wait a minute, he was male. So were all the peadophile priests.

Hang on so was the guy in New Zealand. So are all the other terrorists.

So are the school shooters!!!

Jesus!! It's male culture.

We really need to watch for male migration to Europe lads.

Why am I wrong and you're right.

I can now start a thread, keep it going for a few years and every time a man does something bad I'll link it and say

See!! See, I'm right about men.

What makes me wrong?

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you decided to write a bunch of whataboutery rubbish because you couldn't debate the point I made honestly. The point I made is obvious, what kind of background must you have to even consider rape being legal in any country, let alone carrying it out?

You're trying to equate the fact that Ireland had peadophile priests with a foreigner coming to Ireland thinking rape is legal, is that it?

Who in their right mind would go to Germany and believe killing Jews is legal. Your "argument" for use of a better word, doesn't make any sense.

MrFresh

peddlelies wrote: »

Not being smart, what part of what he said was a lie? Sand stated this



On 14 November, ISIL claimed responsibility for the attacks. François Hollande said ISIL organised the attacks with help from inside France.Most of the Paris attackers were French and Belgian citizens who crossed borders without difficulty, albeit registered as terrorism suspects.Two other attackers were Iraqi. According to the French prime minister, Manuel Valls, several of the perpetrators had exploited Europe's immigration crisis to enter the continent undetected. At least some, including the alleged leader Abdelhamid Abaaoud, had visited Syria and returned radicalised. Jean-Charles Brisard, a French expert on terrorism, called this a change of paradigm, in that returning European citizens were themselves the attackers.

There's nothing in what you quoted that links them to a German immigration policy.

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

Whataboutery?

He raised a valid point, more so an indirect question perhaps to consider.

Is the amount of sex assaults by pakistani taxi drivers significantly higher than the white irish type (population relative, and/or even industry relative)?

It could well be, there may only be what 10's of thousands of male pakistani men in Ireland? (some drive taxis, but not all), compared to millions of white irish males, yet they seem to appear in courts fairly often for these type of taxi sex attacks on young females.

The uk seems to think so, having rushed in a law last year, directly to prevent the phenomenon of asian {actually, pakistani, but the bbc won't report that} taxi groomers.

He didn't raise a valid point. He is picking the worst of a group and painting them a representation of the whole. It's racism at it's core.

Midlife

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

Why say 'no'?,
Do you have evidence to support this claim that it isn't?
Please supply data.

Is the amount of sex assaults by pakistani taxi drivers significantly higher than the white irish type (population relative, and/or even industry relative)?

I'm not saying it is or isn't, am simply asking the question.
It may be worth investigating, out of curiousity and based on recent events and the phonenomena of it in the uk.

So firstly you're not answering my question.

And secondly it's now up to me to investigate unproven claims you are making.

A bit thin to be honest. And like i said, the answer is no unless you have evidence to the contrary.

Back up your own claims.

Midlife

peddlelies wrote: »

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you decided to write a bunch of whataboutery rubbish because you couldn't debate the point I made honestly. The point I made is obvious, what kind of background must you have to even consider rape being legal in any country, let alone carrying it out?

You're trying to equate the fact that Ireland had peadophile priests with a foreigner coming to Ireland thinking rape is legal, is that it?

Who in their right mind would go to Germany and believe killing Jews is legal. Your "argument" for use of a better word, doesn't make any sense.

So you think wherever this guy is from, everyone rapes their 11 year old daughters? Really?

Anyway, can you state what's wrong with my logic of finding confomration bias in every 'male' crime but you're Ok to look for 'foreigner' ones.

I mean what's the difference?

Eric Cartman

Odhinn wrote: »

One offender means we blame the rest of his community?

but its not one offender is it. This man is the latest in a long string of offenders, where rates of offending are going up as the western world learns increasingly about consent and removing old attitudes. Whether it be rotherham or rochdale child grooming gangs, dublin or limerick sex assault taxi drivers etc... and thats before we even talk about terrorism or homophobia.

Is every muslim abusive to women : ofcourse not
Is every european man a saint around women : ofcourse not

but the very act of declaring yourself a practicing muslim is labeling yourself as a believe in a religion and a participant in a culture which by its own admission and teachings views women as lesser beings and it makes it a lot easier to make the jump to abusing those who you see as below you.

an increase in the population of muslims increases an areas attacks on women and homophobic incidents and a nations terror incidents, their culture encourages it and allowing the segregated 'keep to themselves' lifestyle perpetuates it. As density increases, the chances of much needed integration into our values lessens.

Midlife

Eric Cartman wrote: »

but its not one offender is it. This man is the latest in a long string of offenders, where rates of offending are going up as the western world learns increasingly about consent and removing old attitudes. Whether it be rotherham or rochdale child grooming gangs, dublin or limerick sex assault taxi drivers etc... and thats before we even talk about terrorism or homophobia.

Is every muslim abusive to women : ofcourse not
Is every european man a saint around women : ofcourse not

but the very act of declaring yourself a practicing muslim is labeling yourself as a believe in a religion and a participant in a culture which by its own admission and teachings views women as lesser beings and it makes it a lot easier to make the jump to abusing those who you see as below you.

an increase in the population of muslims increases an areas attacks on women and homophobic incidents and a nations terror incidents, their culture encourages it and allowing the segregated 'keep to themselves' lifestyle perpetuates it. As density increases, the chances of much needed integration into our values lessens.

in fairness Eric, I hope you'll recognise that's very different to your earlier comments.

No traditional religion or culture values women as the West do IMO. Things like sexism and homophobia aren't the preserve of Islam. They're pretty much in every religion.

Have a big problem with the bit in bold still.

'Their culture encourages attacks on women?" Encourages???

peddlelies

MrFresh wrote: »

There's nothing in what you quoted that links them to a German immigration policy.

His core point is true, I don't care much for semantics. If they didn't pass through Germany for that specific attack they passed through other European countries which is the same problem in itself. Let's not pretend other attacks haven't happened or that there isn't an ongoing problem in Germany as a direct result of immigration.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/21/world/europe/germany-isis-refugees.html

"The police in Germany arrested six Syrian migrants on Tuesday, suspected of plotting an attack and having links to the Islamic State, fanning fears that extremists posing as refugees were targeting Europe.

Millions of refugees, buffeted by conflict and civil war, have streamed into Europe in recent years, including an estimated one million who came to Germany in 2015. But while many Germans initially welcomed Chancellor Angela Merkel’s embrace of the refugees, viewing it as a powerful emblem of openness and liberalism, a backlash has been simmering after a spate of attacks across the continent."

peddlelies

Midlife wrote: »

Anyway, can you state what's wrong with my logic of finding confomration bias in every 'male' crime but you're Ok to look for 'foreigner' ones.

I mean what's the difference?

One of those things you have control over, I thought that much would have been obvious. You don't keep adding to a problem and try to justify it because of past events, or potential future ones.