Migration Megathread

Help!!!!

Dannyriver wrote: »

yeah that s what I meant by my post that you Mr Help!!!! is responsible for a minuscule amount of extremists breaking the law.

If you add all those examples to all the terrorist acts committed & foiled it is not so minuscule

Dannyriver

Help!!!! wrote: »

In UK in the 80/90s the Sikh community had to start the Sikh Awareness Society to stop Muslim men kidnapping their young girls?
Many cases in the UK where Muslim grooming gangs were raping young 'white' girls? That were covered up by the police & politicians so as not to offend
Dozens upon dozens of reports of women killed by Muslims around Europe
So not such an exaggeration

Can we not say the same about the indigenous population or do they matter?

Dannyriver

Help!!!! wrote: »

In UK in the 80/90s the Sikh community had to start the Sikh Awareness Society to stop Muslim men kidnapping their young girls?
Many cases in the UK where Muslim grooming gangs were raping young 'white' girls? That were covered up by the police & politicians so as not to offend
Dozens upon dozens of reports of women killed by Muslims around Europe
So not such an exaggeration

Loads of work going in the daily mail or Briebert if you re stuck.

Help!!!!

Dannyriver wrote: »

Can we not say the same about the indigenous population or do they matter?

Really? So that makes it OK then?
What about the rest of my post?
What have you to say about the many Muslim grooming gangs across the UK?

Help!!!!

Dannyriver wrote: »

Loads of work going in the daily mail or Briebert if you re stuck.

So what your saying is that everything in that post is not true?:rolleyes:
Google Sikh Awareness Society & tell me they are far right & telling lies

Dannyriver

Help!!!! wrote: »

So what your saying is that everything in that post is not true?:rolleyes:
Google Sikh Awareness Society & tell me they are far right & telling lies

What I'm saying is that you are only focusing on the negative and putting it on the front page as if it was the norm. Fear tends to diminish a person's critical thinking faculties. Suddenly the deviant members of a group become the focus. The IRA did it to Irish in the 70's 80's and much of the 90's and the British tabloids and nationalists used the same trick. Listen you have your fears and prejudices if you want , nothing I'm going to say at this stage to change them, no more than you re going to change my fear of the rise of the right across Europe.

Help!!!!

Dannyriver wrote: »

What I'm saying is that you are only focusing on the negative and putting it on the front page as if it was the norm. Fear tends to diminish a person's critical thinking faculties. Suddenly the deviant members of a group become the focus. The IRA did it to Irish in the 70's 80's and much of the 90's and the British tabloids and nationalists used the same trick. Listen you have your fears and prejudices if you want , nothing I'm going to say at this stage to change them, no more than you re going to change my fear of the rise of the right across Europe.

& you are only focusing on how a few children get along in school, hoping we dont get 'culturally 'enriched'
Rise of the right?
Really? so you cant/wont believe that we could have problems with Muslims as witnessed by other countries but you think the far right is rising?
If the left & MSM didn't call everyone who questioned immigration 'far right' you would very rarely hear about them
According to Europol data there were 5 right wing attacks in the UK but 24 left wing attacks across Europe so you might be looking at the wrong people

jmayo

Dannyriver wrote: »

You enjoy a bit of exaggeration there don t you, no wonder you get so triggered if that s your perspective.

Well let me see ...

multiple terrorist attacks in Paris killing killing over 130 people.
Terrorist attack in Nice boardwalk.
Barcelona attack.
Go back a decade and you had Madrid train attack.
The there was London underground/bus attack, then Lee Rigby, then London Bridge.
Then attack of children at concert in Manchester.
Then attack of priest on altar of church in Normandy.
Attack at football match in Paris.
Attack on Christmas Market (or should that be holiday market to keep the ar**holes happy) in Berlin.
Stockholm attack.
Brussels attack.
Lone wolf attacks in France, Germany, etc.

Then shall we drag in the British grooming gangs that are 90% of muslim background and their thousands of victims in Rochdale, Rotherham, Telford, Newcastle, Oxford, etc.

BTW stop this shyte about people being triggered.
The only ones for the most part doing stuff with triggers are the very ones you think are nothing to worry about.

And the more you downplay concerns, the more you make a joke out of people voicing concerns, the more you force those with concerns into keeping silent, eventually you push people towards the right and the bigger the chance you get the morons like yer man in New Zealand.

It is no fooking coincidence the right is on the rise and it was no coincidence that they dominated poles in places like Calais.

Dannyriver

Help!!!! wrote: »

& you are only focusing on how a few children get along in school, hoping we dont get 'culturally 'enriched'
Rise of the right?
Really? so you cant/wont believe that we could have problems with Muslims as witnessed by other countries but you think the far right is rising?
If the left & MSM didn't call everyone who questioned immigration 'far right' you would very rarely hear about them
According to Europol data there were 5 right wing attacks in the UK but 24 left wing attacks across Europe so you might be looking at the wrong people

Im not focusing on that what I'm saying is that prejudice is as a result of conditioning, and adults condition children not the other way around.

I do believe that unless integration is backed up by social structures and education we will end up making the same mistakes as countries like the UK and France. And of course any sensible measures would also necessitate the west not interfering with the internal politics of muslim majority countries.

Do you not think there is a rise of the far right? If so you re not up to speed, come back to me after the European elections in May .

Help!!!!

Dannyriver wrote: »

Im not focusing on that what I'm saying is that prejudice is as a result of conditioning, and adults condition children not the other way around.

I do believe that unless integration is backed up by social structures and education we will end up making the same mistakes as countries like the UK and France. And of course any sensible measures would also necessitate the west not interfering with the internal politics of muslim majority countries.

Do you not think there is a rise of the far right? If so you re not up to speed, come back to me after the European elections in May .

Again you are blaming the Europeans for questioning immigration & not the fact a certain religious scripture tells its followers to hate the kuffar
The far right to me are nazis & white supremacists not people who want a say in the future of their countries. The reason theres a rise is because it it now a blanket label

jmayo

Dannyriver wrote: »

Im not focusing on that what I'm saying is that prejudice is as a result of conditioning, and adults condition children not the other way around.

I do believe that unless integration is backed up by social structures and education we will end up making the same mistakes as countries like the UK and France. And of course any sensible measures would also necessitate the west not interfering with the internal politics of muslim majority countries.

Do you not think there is a rise of the far right? If so you re not up to speed, come back to me after the European elections in May .

The far right and the right is on the rise.

I wonder when you say Far Right you mean anyone that disagrees with you and the likes of things like lax immigration controls or is what it used to mean; neo nazi fascists.

Far right might be understandable in former Eastern block countries, but in places like Germany, France, Netherlands ?

Does it help that in Germany you had influx of "migrants" that have caused social issues with treatment of women, children ?

Does it help that in Germany you have large community of Turkish descendants who seem to be more loyal to Turkey and their muslim brothers throughout the world than Germany ?

Does it help that you had lone wolf attacks from migrants newly arrived in the country and the politicians didn't appear to be listening ?

Does it help that you have totally unheard of occurrences like New Years Eve mass sexual assaults of German women and girls and then the authorities trying to cover it up because it involved migrants and immigrants ?

Does it help that you have terrorist attacks like the Berlin market ?

Likewise in France which has had hundreds of victims of terrorist attacks.
What does the mainstream parties do, well they have vigils and marches through Paris where they hold hands.
Meanwhile ordinary women cannot go out in suburbs of Paris lest not they be dressed and behaved like in downtown Jeddah or Riyadh.
Meanwhile people can't go watch their nations soccer team without anti terrorist units covering the stadium and it's approaches.

And then you wonder why French voters are turning towards the right never mind the far right?

You can have all the social structures under the sun, but if kids are exposed to hate preachers at places of worship, in teaching establishments and at home, then it is useless.

WinnyThePoo

Dannyriver wrote: »

jmayo wrote: »

FFS back to the usual shyteology that the reason muslims in Europe are going out and slaughtering their fellow citizens, raping the children of their fellow citizens is because the natives haven't been nice enough to them.

In that case why aren't the kids of christian immigrants from Africa, Carribean, the children of Sikhs, Buddists or Hindus also out slaughtering their fellow citizens ?
Did they never experience any discrimination or racism ?

How come the kids of Nigerians christians and Carribean immigrants to Britain aren't hacking the heads off off duty soldiers ?

Oh wait correction that actually happened. :eek:

But the common denominator of the two, as per 99.9% of these cases, was that they were muslim at the time of the attacks.

Maybe they didn't realise people like the poster Help!! weren't inclusive enough until they became muslim. :rolleyes:

You enjoy a bit of exaggeration there don t you, no wonder you get so triggered if that s your perspective.

All Muslims are the exact same and think in a hive mind. This is of course is nonsense and completely un logical. Yet I'm reading it again on this thread.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: A post has been deleted and a ban issued. No more one-liners please.

Midlife

It seems that after 2/3 days of inactivity this thread basically rehashes itself and people spend some time posting all the bad things done by muslims as a reason that we shouldn't allow 1/4 of the worlds population into a continent.

I get where people are coming from, I really do. And no doubt I'd feel differently if the fields next to my house had been taken over by an estate of people from a single race or religion who weren't integrating.

I just think the premise that we can link every bad deed done by people of a religion to all those connected with the religion shows poor judgement and a lot of bias.

No-one is denying there are problems. Just look at the cross schools TV programmeon this evening where a teenage mulsim girl clearly fancied a boy who was into her. She told him that because of her religion and parents, she isn't free to talk to men until she's married to one.

That's ****ed and its a problem that's not going away soon. But vilifying people and building barriers between societies is not going to achieve anything.

Terror, and the reasons that people kill need to be addressed.

Seperatly, the values of migrant groups and how incompatible they may be to our values needs to be addressed.

Unless someone has a reasonable suggestion on how to adddress these, I think this thread is just a massive exercise in conformation bias and prejudice.

Sand

Midlife wrote: »

It seems that after 2/3 days of inactivity this thread basically rehashes itself and people spend some time posting all the bad things done by muslims as a reason that we shouldn't allow 1/4 of the worlds population into a continent.

If it rehashes itself its A) no worse than the Brexit discussion and because people refuse to accept evidence contrary to their ideology.

No-one is denying there are problems.

It's a fairly regular theme that people deny there are any problems. That's why it repeats.

Unless someone has a reasonable suggestion on how to adddress these

As a first step, end mass migration into Europe. Stopping the problem getting worse is always a good first step.

Midlife

Sand wrote: »

It's a fairly regular theme that people deny there are any problems. That's why it repeats.

With due respect to everyone on this thread, I think you'd have to be a fool to deny there are any problems. I'm not sure that's what people are saying.

Sand wrote: »

As a first step, end mass migration into Europe. Stopping the problem getting worse is always a good first step.

As you've previously defined mass migration as any amount of migration that significantly alters the demographic makeup of a region, I am in full agreement.

I think we can agree that taking in massive amounts of people and ghettoising them in an area is a recipe for disaster.

Take for example that programmme tonight. Students from an 'asian' school were swapped with students from a 'white' school. Clearly in terms of integration, that's already set up to fail.

Help!!!!

Midlife wrote: »

It seems that after 2/3 days of inactivity this thread basically rehashes itself and people spend some time posting all the bad things done by muslims as a reason that we shouldn't allow 1/4 of the worlds population into a continent.

I get where people are coming from, I really do. And no doubt I'd feel differently if the fields next to my house had been taken over by an estate of people from a single race or religion who weren't integrating.

I just think the premise that we can link every bad deed done by people of a religion to all those connected with the religion shows poor judgement and a lot of bias.

No-one is denying there are problems. Just look at the cross schools TV programmeon this evening where a teenage mulsim girl clearly fancied a boy who was into her. She told him that because of her religion and parents, she isn't free to talk to men until she's married to one.

That's ****ed and its a problem that's not going away soon. But vilifying people and building barriers between societies is not going to achieve anything.

Terror, and the reasons that people kill need to be addressed.

Seperatly, the values of migrant groups and how incompatible they may be to our values needs to be addressed.

Unless someone has a reasonable suggestion on how to adddress these, I think this thread is just a massive exercise in conformation bias and prejudice.

I would agree with everything in this post 100% if there was a country where Muslims were thriving, assimilating & living in peace. Unfortunately theres not.
Why can other faiths live in Europe in relative peace & assimilate with hardly any problems?
You dont have Hindus working in Lidl & refusing to handle beef products.
But I do think a lot of the problems Europe is having are also down to weak politicians & the left ( which is also the reason for the rise of the right ) because they wont call out the wrongs that Muslims do but will call anyone who does a racist/fascist/islamaphobe etc

Help!!!!

Midlife wrote: »

With due respect to everyone on this thread, I think you'd have to be a fool to deny there are any problems. I'm not sure that's what people are saying.



As you've previously defined mass migration as any amount of migration that significantly alters the demographic makeup of a region, I am in full agreement.

I think we can agree that taking in massive amounts of people and ghettoising them in an area is a recipe for disaster.

Take for example that programmme tonight. Students from an 'asian' school were swapped with students from a 'white' school. Clearly in terms of integration, that's already set up to fail.

The problem with the ghettos is that they all flock to the same area. As has happened in parts of the UK they buy up street after street, sometimes forcing the local people to sell up & move
In Birmingham there are 2 schools where the parents refuse to let their kids be taught about LGBTQ issues
Both are majority Muslims, they have come out & said it has to do with their religion & believe its wrong. Where are the protests? Where are the usual suspects condemning Islam & calling Muslims backward & homophobic? No where to be seen, why? Because they are not Christians. If it was a Christian school there would be uproar.
I have met & am still friends with Muslims & I know that not all are bad (might have something to do with which sect they come from) but I read a statictic that problems start when the Muslim population of a country rises to & above 5% so we do have a bit of time but if we are going to stop Ireland from going down the same route as others in Europe we have to open dialogue. The majority of people who speak out about Islam, immigration have genuine concerns but we have people who put labels on them which does not help the situation.

Midlife

Help!!!! wrote: »

I would agree with everything in this post 100% if there was a country where Muslims were thriving, assimilating & living in peace. Unfortunately theres not.
Why can other faiths live in Europe in relative peace & assimilate with hardly any problems?

Firstly again, you're tarring all muslims with the same brush. that's a really bad standard to apply if you've trying to be correct or accurate.

I mean as long as therre's some evidence of integration being a problem, they're all bad? I mean they have to thrive, assimilate and live in peace so is any evidence of that not happening fine for you? Keep them all out of the entire continent?

That's pretty pointless isn't it.

Like now I say Switzerland as I can't think of any issues there and you go off to Google 'islamic problems in switzerland' or something like that to prove me wrong. That's idiotic.

Midlife

Help!!!! wrote: »

The problem with the ghettos is that they all flock to the same area. As has happened in parts of the UK they buy up street after street, sometimes forcing the local people to sell up & move
In Birmingham there are 2 schools where the parents refuse to let their kids be taught about LGBTQ issues
Both are majority Muslims, they have come out & said it has to do with their religion & believe its wrong. Where are the protests? Where are the usual suspects condemning Islam & calling Muslims backward & homophobic? No where to be seen, why? Because they are not Christians. If it was a Christian school there would be uproar.
I have met & am still friends with Muslims & I know that not all are bad (might have something to do with which sect they come from) but I read a statictic that problems start when the Muslim population of a country rises to & above 5% so we do have a bit of time but if we are going to stop Ireland from going down the same route as others in Europe we have to open dialogue. The majority of people who speak out about Islam, immigration have genuine concerns but we have people who put labels on them which does not help the situation.

And a pile more conformation bias. They buy up street after street. Do you think they wouldn't like nicer houses in the countryside rather than ****ty terraces in the middle of the city? Are you actually blaming mulsims for forming ghettos in the cheapest parts of the cities with available housing? Chinatown, little italy etc etc etc. What does that have to do with Islam? This is a clear anti-immigrant argument.


Regarding the schools. Again note that predominatly Muslim schools are the problem. Back to ghettos again nbut nothing to do with religion.
Anyway, in the 1980's and 1990's in ireland, much of the population and the Catholic church were vehemently against introducing the stay safe programme im primary schools.

Basically teaching kids there are 'no feelings' and you don't have to do everything an adult says.

Their argumment was that all that stuff belongs in the home. Even the whole molestation thing.

That's in my lifetime.

In Birmingham, those parents need to be told they're wrong and that children recieve a standard education in the UK. That's happened in many many places with many religions. FFS, in the US they have teachers teaching creationism.

Midlife

Actually trust the Swiss...(wait is that racist). 25% of the country foreign born!!!

"The Swiss government’s policy towards foreigners is one of integration – seeking to involve newcomers in the country’s daily life – instead of creating so-called “parallel societies” within Switzerland. Integration takes place at the federal, cantonal and municipal level."


They've just brought in new laws that state that for a renewal of residence permit, you need to display good ebhaviour, education, employment, language acquisition.

https://lenews.ch/2019/01/04/renewal-of-swiss-residence-permits-now-depends-on-good-behaviour-and-integration/


It's been said in this thread that in 400 years the Swiss will still have problems because of the evidence the Ulster plantation offers us. I think this is more evidence that equivalances like that are pointless. The situations are very very different.

tretorn

Midlife wrote: »

It seems that after 2/3 days of inactivity this thread basically rehashes itself and people spend some time posting all the bad things done by muslims as a reason that we shouldn't allow 1/4 of the worlds population into a continent.

I get where people are coming from, I really do. And no doubt I'd feel differently if the fields next to my house had been taken over by an estate of people from a single race or religion who weren't integrating.

I just think the premise that we can link every bad deed done by people of a religion to all those connected with the religion shows poor judgement and a lot of bias.

No-one is denying there are problems. Just look at the cross schools TV programmeon this evening where a teenage mulsim girl clearly fancied a boy who was into her. She told him that because of her religion and parents, she isn't free to talk to men until she's married to one.

That's ****ed and its a problem that's not going away soon. But vilifying people and building barriers between societies is not going to achieve anything.

Terror, and the reasons that people kill need to be addressed.

Seperatly, the values of migrant groups and how incompatible they may be to our values needs to be addressed.

Unless someone has a reasonable suggestion on how to adddress these, I think this thread is just a massive exercise in conformation bias and prejudice.

The biggest barrier to Muslims integrating is not down to their host countries, its within the walks of Muslim homes and that isnt going to change whether they live in a ****hole their culture has created or whether they live in a state provided apartment in Berlin.

Read your own post, a teenage girl isnt allowed to talk to a teenage boy unless she is married to him.

You can shove your talk about immigration. If that son was my teenager I would be afraid for him, I would be warning him off this girl and her family of males who wont hesitate to harm him should her market worth be damaged, thats what women are in these backward cultures, chattels to be bought, thats what female circumcision is about, the culture was always disgusting and its even more disgusting now in 2019.

These people will never integrate and when they have strength in numbers they will impose their feudal barbsric practices on us, its the women as always who rights and freedoms will be impacted.

Its frightening to think too far ino the future, 12 per cent of the population is now non national and we cant let ourselves be used as a dumping ground by bigger EU countries whose populations are voting through the ballot box to elect people whose election promise is to limit immigration. These countries care about their own borders and if they can dump economic migrants/refugees on us they will.

We need to start putting pressure on our politicans too.

Help!!!!

Midlife wrote: »

Firstly again, you're tarring all muslims with the same brush. that's a really bad standard to apply if you've trying to be correct or accurate.

I mean as long as therre's some evidence of integration being a problem, they're all bad? I mean they have to thrive, assimilate and live in peace so is any evidence of that not happening fine for you? Keep them all out of the entire continent?

That's pretty pointless isn't it.

Like now I say Switzerland as I can't think of any issues there and you go off to Google 'islamic problems in switzerland' or something like that to prove me wrong. That's idiotic.

No I'm not saying they are all bad & some do assimilate & are willing to assimilate unfortunately its those that move to the same area that dont want to assimilate that causes the problem. It might have to do with the different sects. Sunni's like to be the dominant sect. There is also issues within the mosques stopping them from assimilating EG: men & women segregated sends out the wrong message when dealing with the opposite sex outside of the mosque
As for Switzerland they have had problems but they did things like ban minarets & make mixed swimming obligatory although theres some high up members of the Muslim brotherhood working out of there & the population has grown quite rapidly over the last couple of decades

Midlife

tretorn wrote: »

You can shove your talk about immigration.

tretorn wrote: »

Its frightening to think too far ino the future, 12 per cent of the population is now non national

I've a feeling you don't like non-nationals in general, maybe muslims in particular but I doubt it stops there.

Help!!!!

Midlife wrote: »

And a pile more conformation bias. They buy up street after street. Do you think they wouldn't like nicer houses in the countryside rather than ****ty terraces in the middle of the city? Are you actually blaming mulsims for forming ghettos in the cheapest parts of the cities with available housing? Chinatown, little italy etc etc etc. What does that have to do with Islam? This is a clear anti-immigrant argument.


Regarding the schools. Again note that predominatly Muslim schools are the problem. Back to ghettos again nbut nothing to do with religion.
Anyway, in the 1980's and 1990's in ireland, much of the population and the Catholic church were vehemently against introducing the stay safe programme im primary schools.

Basically teaching kids there are 'no feelings' and you don't have to do everything an adult says.

Their argumment was that all that stuff belongs in the home. Even the whole molestation thing.

That's in my lifetime.

In Birmingham, those parents need to be told they're wrong and that children recieve a standard education in the UK. That's happened in many many places with many religions. FFS, in the US they have teachers teaching creationism.

No its not.
So you expect someone who comes over to the UK from Pakistan to be able to afford to buy a nicer house in the countryside?
Once they have built a mosque they flock to that area, even if someone becomes well off they very rarely leave the area

Help!!!!

SNIP. No more one-liners please.

oscarBravo

Help!!!! wrote: »

For me personally I dont have any faith in the government or politicians to integrate them properly...

Help!!!! wrote: »

I am concerned that our government wont integrate them properly...

tretorn wrote: »

The biggest barrier to Muslims integrating is not down to their host countries...

[...]

These people will never integrate...

"Why can't those stupid foreigners just be less foreign?"

I read an interesting perspective on "integration" this morning. That is, I personally found it interesting; I have no doubt that those who have no interest in perspectives other than their own prejudices will find it less so.

Help!!!!

oscarBravo wrote: »

"Why can't those stupid foreigners just be less foreign?"

I read an interesting perspective on "integration" this morning. That is, I personally found it interesting; I have no doubt that those who have no interest in perspectives other than their own prejudices will find it less so.

So you think its OK for them to come here & live like they do in the M.E./Asia or Africa?
They are choosing to come here so they have to live by our laws the same as we would if we went to their countries

Midlife

Help!!!! wrote: »

No its not.
So you expect someone who comes over to the UK from Pakistan to be able to afford to buy a nicer house in the countryside?
Once they have built a mosque they flock to that area, even if someone becomes well off they very rarely leave the area

that's the point i was making, they go, as all immigrants do where there is cheap and available housing and then where there is cheap and available housing and people speak the same languge. So they form ghettos which are obviously a massive barrier to integration. Parallel socities and all that.

But you're acting like immmigrants inhabiting a particular area is unique to Islam and mosques.

Obviously it's not. There are still Irish parts of Boston, little Italy, Chinatown etc.

Islam has nothing to do with that. Policy does.

Midlife

Help!!!! wrote: »

So you think its OK for them to come here & live like they do in the M.E./Asia or Africa?
They are choosing to come here so they have to live by our laws the same as we would if we went to their countries

I think his point is that on one hand you're saying you don't trust the gvt to integrate them properly and give out out about the PC bridage. That you have Mulsim friends who are fine and so on.

But on the other hand you're saying that over 5% of them spells trouble no matter what and they'll never integrate.

At least that'ss my reading of some of your comments.