Migration Megathread

4068ac1elhodqr

Midlife wrote: »

Obviously though, there are very strict muslims and not so strict muslims. Similarly, there are pre-vatican 2 masses in Ireland where women cover their heads and it's all in latin. No contraception, no reproductive rights etc. They're Catholics but over 90% of people in Ireland ticked the 'catholic' box in the last census so it's clearly a scale of how catholic you wish to be.

This is not only a lazy assumption, but also slightly insulting to a religion that (in general) makes average Catholics look like part-time hobbyists, with their boozing, looser morals and even widespread joyful annual celebration of the Pagan Celtic Samhain/Haloween festival.

The reality is that some schools in England have already resigned themselves to modifying sexual education classes, and serving halal meat in order to satisfy a minority (a more vocal minority).

Timberrrrrrrr

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

This is not only a lazy assumption, but also slightly insulting to a religion that (in general) makes average Catholics look like part-time hobbyists, with their boozing, looser morals and even widespread joyful annual celebration of the Pagan Celtic Samhain/Haloween festival.

The reality is that some schools in England have already resigned themselves to modifying sexual education classes, and serving halal meat in order to satisfy a minority (a more vocal minority).

What is your issue with this?

4068ac1elhodqr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What is your issue with this?

Should a majority be forced to eat meat that is killed barbarically, without stunning (animal cruelty), in order to satisfy a more vocal (minority)?

Should schools have to close or change their sexual health education programs simply because a vocal (minority) don't agree with the syllabus?

You have no issue with these points?

stefanovich

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yup, in the same way catholics are supposed to follow the 1 commandments, very few actually do and they just get on with life.

The impression I get though is that a lot more Muslims would be strict OR at the very least go out of there way to appear strict. Know I lot of Pakistanis that go out drinking and womanizing but back at home butter wouldn't melt in their mouth. I suppose their society expects certain behaviours but they might observe them less in Western countries.

stefanovich

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

Should a majority be forced to eat meat that is killed barbarically, without stunning (animal cruelty), in order to satisfy a more vocal (minority)?

Should schools have to close or change their sexual health education programs simply because a vocal (minority) don't agree with the syllabus?

You have no issue with these points?

Yeah, totally against halal meat. I purposefully avoid pakistani "indian" restaurants these days for exactly that reason.

Timberrrrrrrr

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

Should a majority be forced to eat meat that is killed barbarically, without stunning (animal cruelty), in order to satisfy a more vocal (minority)?

The meat looks, smells, tastes the same, your only issue is how it is killed? Are you 100% positive that every sausage, rasher, steak, pork chop you eat has been slaughtered humanely? Do you check.or even care where your eggs or chicken comes from? I'm guessing your "outrage" is simply because they are catering for people with different dietary preferences yet i bet you have no problem with anyone providing a vegetarian option?

Should schools have to close or change their sexual health education programs simply because a vocal (minority) don't agree with the syllabus?

You have no issue with these points?

We recently witnessed a library having to cancel a book reading because a "vocal minority" disagreed with it.

Timberrrrrrrr

stefanovich wrote: »

The impression I get though is that a lot more Muslims would be strict OR at the very least go out of there way to appear strict. Know I lot of Pakistanis that go out drinking and womanizing but back at home butter wouldn't melt in their mouth. I suppose their society expects certain behaviours but they might observe them less in Western countries.

Pretty much the way many irish catholic are! Lads/lasses from the country working/studying in cities then heading home to mammy and up early on sunday for mass.

stefanovich

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Pretty much the way many irish catholic are! Lads/lasses from the country working/studying in cities then heading home to mammy and up early on sunday for mass.

So we hope that in the privacy of the ballot box they are more moderate than what is expected?

Timberrrrrrrr

stefanovich wrote: »

So we hope that in the privacy of the ballot box they are more moderate than what is expected?

Moderate how? Who is it you think they will be voting for?

stefanovich

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Moderate how? Who is it you think they will be voting for?

Well I thought we were talking about the imposition of Sharia law in western democracy. So they would have to be voting for a candidate with a strict agenda.

If one does not exist now then it is only a matter of time. Seeing as the immigrant Muslim population have such a high birth rate.

4068ac1elhodqr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The meat looks, smells, tastes the same, your only issue is how it is killed?

I.e. So you really don't care how it's killed, just as long as it tastes nice for you? That's nice. Animal welfare is an important topic.

The Islamic form of slaughtering animals or poultry, dhabiha, involves killing through a cut to the jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe.

Animals must be alive and healthy at the time of slaughter and all blood is drained from the carcass. During the process, a Muslim will recite a dedication, know as tasmiya or shahada.

Stunning cannot be used to kill an animal (HFA)

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you 100% positive that every sausage, rasher, steak, pork chop you eat has been slaughtered humanely? Do you check.or even care where your eggs or chicken comes from?

I'm sure it's stunned before its killed, if it has halal on the packaging or shop front, it simply won't be bought.

The RSPCA says slaughter without pre-stunning causes "unnecessary suffering" Why further promote animal suffering?

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

We recently witnessed a library having to cancel a book reading because a "vocal minority" disagreed with it.

Depends on the exact specifics, but yes in general, Minority rule isn't ideal.

If it causes the stopage of important sexual health education, and directly encourages animal cruelty, it certainly isn't.

stefanovich

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

I.e. So you really don't care how it's killed, just as long as it tastes nice for you? That's nice. Animal welfare is an important topic.

The Islamic form of slaughtering animals or poultry, dhabiha, involves killing through a cut to the jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe.

Animals must be alive and healthy at the time of slaughter and all blood is drained from the carcass. During the process, a Muslim will recite a dedication, know as tasmiya or shahada.

Stunning cannot be used to kill an animal (HFA)



I'm sure it's stunned before its killed, if it has halal on the packaging or shop front, it simply won't be bought.

The RSPCA says slaughter without pre-stunning causes "unnecessary suffering" Why further promote animal suffering?



Depends on the exact specifics, but yes in general, Minority rule isn't ideal.

If it causes the stopage of important sexual health education, and directly encourages animal cruelty, it certainly isn't.

I had one Pakistani acquaintance who was excited about travelling up to Dublin for an animal sacrifice. They bring children to witness what is essentially the barbaric decapitation of an animal.

Timberrrrrrrr

stefanovich wrote: »

Well I thought we were talking about the imposition of Sharia law in western democracy. So they would have to be voting for a candidate with a strict agenda.

Has sharia law been imposed on you lately?

If one does not exist now then it is only a matter of time. Seeing as the immigrant Muslim population have such a high birth rate.

So if a staunch catholic party were to run for election tomorrow and said they would ban SSM, Divorce, abortion.etc do you think catholics would vote this party in?

If not then what makes.you think muslims would vote for a party that advocates sharia law?

Timberrrrrrrr

stefanovich wrote: »

I had one Pakistani acquaintance who was excited about travelling up to Dublin for an animal sacrifice. They bring children to witness what is essentially the barbaric decapitation of an animal.

I know people who bring thier children to hate coursing, shocking isnt it?

stefanovich

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Has sharia law been imposed on you lately?



So if a staunch catholic party were to run for election tomorrow and said they would ban SSM, Divorce, abortion.etc do you think catholics would vote this party in?

If not then what makes.you think muslims would vote for a party that advocates sharia law?

I'm against SSM divorce and abortion funnily enough and not catholic. What I am against is the death penalty for homosexuality.

Timberrrrrrrr

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

I.e. So you really don't care how it's killed, just as long as it tastes nice for you? That's nice. Animal welfare is an important topic.

The Islamic form of slaughtering animals or poultry, dhabiha, involves killing through a cut to the jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe.

Animals must be alive and healthy at the time of slaughter and all blood is drained from the carcass. During the process, a Muslim will recite a dedication, know as tasmiya or shahada.

Stunning cannot be used to kill an animal (HFA)



I'm sure it's stunned before its killed, if it has halal on the packaging or shop front, it simply won't be bought.

The RSPCA says slaughter without pre-stunning causes "unnecessary suffering" Why further promote animal suffering?



Depends on the exact specifics, but yes in general, Minority rule isn't ideal.

If it causes the stopage of important sexual health education, and directly encourages animal cruelty, it certainly isn't.

So you would also be against horse racing seeing as it can cause unnecessary suffering to animals?

stefanovich

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I know people who bring thier children to hate coursing, shocking isnt it?

I get where you are coming from and I hope you are right. I just fear that the majority of Muslims are not as moderate as you hope. You are coming from a place of idealism and perhaps not reality.

Ultimate Seduction

Midlife wrote: »

I'm saying that I haven't seen anything that would suggest that a majority of an Isliamic immigrant commmunity would vote in Sharia law.

Obviously though, there are very strict muslims and not so strict muslims. Similarly, there are pre-vatican 2 masses in Ireland where women cover their heads and it's all in latin. No contraception, no reproductive rights etc. They're Catholics but over 90% of people in Ireland ticked the 'catholic' box in the last census so it's clearly a scale of how catholic you wish to be.

We can clearly see the difference between irish christianity and nutjobs in the US teaching creationism and waiting for the rapture. We don't however see these divisions in Islam so clearly and so tend to consider them all as one homogenous group.

Your average muslim is not some lunatic that wants less freedom and more repression. The religion isn't some catching disease that turns perfectly sane people mad. It's not like this is the thin edge of some wedge that's going to result in Europeans converting en masse and an entire continent throwing away all the things that make it possibly the best place in the world to be born.

There's plenty surveys done on the Muslim population in UK.



Nearly a quarter (23%) supported the introduction of sharia law in some areas of Britain, and 39% agreed that “wives should always obey their husbands”, compared with 5% of the country as a whole. Two-thirds (66%) said they completely condemned people who took part in stoning adulterers, and a further 13% condemned them to some extent. Nearly a third (31%) thought it was acceptable for a British Muslim man to have more than one wife, compared with 8% of the wider population.

Ultimate Seduction

Can't find the actual survey, but here is the Guardian report on it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

4068ac1elhodqr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So you would also be against horse racing seeing as it can cause unnecessary suffering to animals?

So out of desperation, you're now comparing the killing through a cut to the jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe and thus slow cruel blood draining of millions of live animals per year...

...To horse racing? Wherby horses only during actual competition may receive a few short lashes (with ever increasing restrictions) to their thick hides towards the very end of a race.

Racehorses are probably some of the best kept, well fed, best exercised, and looked after animals on the planet. Even during actual sporting competition the fatality rate is 0.19% (BHA).

Ideally animals shouldn't be used for human sport/entertainment, and it's likely the won't be in years to come as their welfare becomes more important.

Rodeo and Spanish bullfighting should of course be banned outright.

However you've no problem ignoring animal welfare, 'as long as it tastes nice on a plate', not to mention preventing sexual health education classes in schools.

Timberrrrrrrr

stefanovich wrote: »

I get where you are coming from and I hope you are right. I just fear that the majority of Muslims are not as moderate as you hope. You are coming from a place of idealism and perhaps not reality.

I come from that place because i work with and interact with Muslim men and women on a daily basis. You are coming from a place of fear yet i bet you have never had a bad interaction with a muslim person in your whole life.

Timberrrrrrrr

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

So out of desperation, you're now comparing the killing through a cut to the jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe and thus slow cruel blood draining of millions of live animals per year...

...To horse racing? Wherby horses only during actual competition may receive a few short lashes (with ever increasing restrictions) to their thick hides towards the very end of a race.

Racehorses are probably some of the best kept, well fed, best exercised, and looked after animals on the planet. Even during actual sporting competition the fatality rate is 0.19% (BHA).

Ideally animals shouldn't be used for human sport/entertainment, and it's likely the won't be in years to come as their welfare becomes more important.

Rodeo and Spanish bullfighting should of course be banned outright.

However you've no problem ignoring animal welfare, 'as long as it tastes nice on a plate', not to mention preventing sexual health education classes in schools.

Nope im pointing out your hypocrisy

That chicken you had last week was probably fed steroids and kept in a shed with 20,000 others.

The eggs you ate, the hen.was probably locked in a cage and was just kept alive to lay eggs.

The steak you had was probably from steroid fed cows, same with the milk that goes in your cuppa.

The list is endless but heres you only caring about how the animal is killed amd not the life of suffering it has before that. What about ex racehorses and greyhounds? So you care what happens to them once thier race days are finished? Your faux "outrage" over how animals are slaughtered is laughable and shows you up for the hypocrite that you are.

4068ac1elhodqr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Nope im pointing out your hypocrisy

That chicken you had last week was probably fed steroids and kept in a shed with 20,000 others.

The eggs you ate, the hen.was probably locked in a cage and was just kept alive to lay eggs.

The steak you had was probably from steroid fed cows, same with the milk that goes in your cuppa.

Nope. Your combination of whataboutery and wild assumptions here, are hysterical.

My Milk is always green-lable organic, my eggs are always, always free-range. All other unpackaged meats are from local traceable grass-fed animals to the best of my knowledge (the same farm shop where the eggs come from).

The public can't control the welfare of every single animal on the planet, but one choice they can make, is to avoid animals killed cruelly without dignity such as halal.

So actually I care about animals, and importantly how they are killed.

You however clearly don't give a flying *^&* about how it gets to your plate, just - as long as it tastes nice (as you mentioned previously).

Meanwhile, back to the point at hand, a minority can indeed make choices (over a majority) such as in schools and supermarkets, whereby halal meat is enfoced, and sex education classes are rejected.

Timberrrrrrrr

Briggs Full Sunblock wrote: »

Nope. Your combination of whataboutery and wild assumptions here, are hysterical.

My Milk is always green-lable organic, my eggs are always, always free-range. All other unpackaged meats are from local traceable grass-fed animals to the best of my knowledge (the same farm shop where the eggs come from).

The public can't control the welfare of every single animal on the planet, but one choice they can make, is to avoid animals killed cruelly without dignity such as halal.

So actually I care about animals, and importantly how they are killed.

You however clearly don't give a flying *^&* about how it gets to your plate, just - as long as it tastes nice (as you mentioned previously).

Meanwhile, back to the point at hand, a minority can indeed make choices (over a majority) such as in schools and supermarkets, whereby halal meat is enfoced, and sex education classes are rejected.

I think you will find that the majority of people are the same;)

stefanovich

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I come from that place because i work with and interact with Muslim men and women on a daily basis. You are coming from a place of fear yet i bet you have never had a bad interaction with a muslim person in your whole life.

I have had good and bad experiences. More bad than good to be honest,

I've met some very friendly Muslims and gone out drinking with them and had fun.
I've had them try to convert me.
I've had some tell me how white women are sluts.
I've had them, as described above, tell me about going to ritual animal sacrifice.
I've had them openly talk about a transsexual being a filthy ******.
I've had a moderate Muslim tell me to not trust anyone whose wife wears a burka as they are all Isis sympathisers.

stefanovich

And a bonus one.
"The Syrian war was caused by the jews"

Timberrrrrrrr

stefanovich wrote: »

I have had good and bad experiences. More bad than good to be honest,

I've met some very friendly Muslims and gone out drinking with them and had fun.
I've had them try to convert me.
I've had some tell me how white women are sluts.
I've had them, as described above, tell me about going to ritual animal sacrifice.
I've had them openly talk about a transsexual being a filthy ******.
I've had a moderate Muslim tell me to not trust anyone whose wife wears a burka as they are all Isis sympathisers.

As above i have had the exact same experiences/conversations with christians!

Eric Cartman

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

As above i have had the exact same experiences/conversations with christians!

people who are mad into a religion are nuts, doesnt really matter which religion, i think thats most peoples points here.

The woman walking down the street in a burkah isn't doing it because she passively believes in the religion and only goes to mosque once a year with her ma on ramadan. Its a symbol of a certain level of devotion to a religion and culture,

youd feel equally weird interacting with a devout christian woman with a floor length skirt, no skin on show at all and mad for a few decades of the rosary now and again.

Pretty obvious some people haven't witnessed an animal be butchered by their throats being slit open.

It's really quite a sight to see. I had to change my lunchtime café because the restaurant close to it did it out back every day. Not halal but the same method. The noise, my God I can still hear it now.

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pretty obvious some people haven't witnessed an animal be butchered by their throats being slit open.

It's really quite a sight to see. I had to change my lunchtime café because the restaurant close to it did it out back every day. Not halal but the same method. The noise, my God I can still hear it now.

I grew up in the UK close to a butchers, i remember every Tuesday evening the lorry pulling up outside and pigs herded off the lorry up the side lane to the slaughter area. Have seen/watched many being butchered by the knife.

It's also pretty obvious that some people havent witnessed chicken sheds or battery farms yet will happily eat eggs/chicken without caring where it came from.