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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭The Cool


    Carbs don't cause obesity. Eating too much does.

    You're right, but I would say for at least some people, carbs are a factor in over eating. Because carbs make you want more carbs. You don't eat a whole tub of pringles or a whole share size bag of M&M's because you're hungry, it's because you have one and then you want another one, etc until the bag's empty and you go see what else is in the cupboard.


    I'd be concerned about a fat tax (my precious avocados! :pac: ) because with that and a sugar tax, what are you left with? White meat, white fish and vegetables. But you're never going to get the whole population eating that "clean" so it really translates to a lot more processed food with man-made ingredients.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,624 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    The Cool wrote: »
    You're right, but I would say for at least some people, carbs are a factor in over eating. Because carbs make you want more carbs. You don't eat a whole tub of pringles or a whole share size bag of M&M's because you're hungry, it's because you have one and then you want another one, etc until the bag's empty and you go see what else is in the cupboard.

    They're a factor because they're hyperpalatable in those instances. But no one eats Pringles or M&Ms and thinks they're making a good choice.

    I just think pointing the finger at carbs because carbs misses the point.

    There are plenty of carbs that are good food choices in the context of the overall diet.

    That said, I've no issue with people following a keto diet where it works for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭Pretzill


    Hi all

    Getting back to keto after a short attempt last year - I find lowering the carbs right down is the only way I can shift the weight. Just noticing this time around awful aches, cramps in my calves - is this ketosis or an electrolyte imbalance? Do any of you get this? TIA


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,430 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Pretzill wrote: »
    Hi all

    Getting back to keto after a short attempt last year - I find lowering the carbs right down is the only way I can shift the weight. Just noticing this time around awful aches, cramps in my calves - is this ketosis or an electrolyte imbalance? Do any of you get this? TIA

    one of the main reasons seems to be not enough magnesium or potentially potassium. speaking for myself i used to get leg cramps on a regular diet but dont think i have had a single one eating low carb. You could probably try a magnesium supplement, dark chocolate has magnesium too. As a sports drink i add a mixture of salt and potassium based salt (lo-salt)

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 5 chirin


    Does anyone know if MCT oil without lauric acid (c12) can be bought in Ireland? Can see some bottles of it on Amazon but they don't ship to Ireland, and would prefer not to use parcel motel etc. Thanks.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7 tkellie5678


    Hi. (Apologies in advance for the long post)

    I started Keto 10 days ago and have dropped 9lb i know this is probably due to water. I just want some advice from people that have been this a while.

    I only eat two meals a day so breakfast would be eggs bacon and maybe a sausage depends on the day. My dinner then would be meat, broccoli or lettuce some cheese. After dinner i usually have some walnuts with a good amount of salt.

    My calories are set at 1800 but I never use the full amount.

    I drink 3 litres of water daily, I don't drink tea or coffee.

    I have always taken calcium supplements as i don't drink milk. I know take calcium with magnesium ones instead.

    I had extremely bad headaches for a couple of days but they went. Overall i feel fine but I just want advice if I am missing out on anything. I don't know anyone else following Keto to ask them. I try my best to reach my macro but I can't seem to get the balance right. Protein is fine but I am always under for fat and carbs.

    Any advice would be much appreciated!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭Nollog


    I try my best to reach my macro but I can't seem to get the balance right. Protein is fine but I am always under for fat and carbs.

    Any advice would be much appreciated!

    That's fine, protein is a goal. Eating protein keeps your muscle.
    Carbs are a hard limit, not a goal.
    Fat is now your main source of fuel for your body, if your goal is weight loss, keeping under the fat macro is good.

    If you're not feeling hungry all the time, you're probably doing fine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    That's fine, protein is a goal. Eating protein keeps your muscle.
    Carbs are a hard limit, not a goal.
    Fat is now your main source of fuel for your body, if your goal is weight loss, keeping under the fat macro is good.

    If you're not feeling hungry all the time, you're probably doing fine.

    Too much protein can take you out of ketosis, via gluconeogenesis


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭Nollog


    https://perfectketo.com/gluconeogenesis/

    Bias aside, probably not a massive worry.

    To be clear, I'm not saying the poster should be eating 20 blocks or cheese a day or a whole cow or anything, I was assuming they calculated their macros correctly (1.something grams of protein per kg or lb of muscle I think it is?)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 tkellie5678


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    That's fine, protein is a goal. Eating protein keeps your muscle.
    Carbs are a hard limit, not a goal.
    Fat is now your main source of fuel for your body, if your goal is weight loss, keeping under the fat macro is good.

    If you're not feeling hungry all the time, you're probably doing fine.

    Thank you. No I haven't been hungry so it's definitely doing something! Yes the aim is to lose weight so that was why I didn't want to just be eating more just to reach the fat macro. Thanks again.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    Thank you. No I haven't been hungry so it's definitely doing something! Yes the aim is to lose weight so that was why I didn't want to just be eating more just to reach the fat macro. Thanks again.

    Aiming to lose 'weight' is a dangerous goal. You'll have no arse and a fat belly in no time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,376 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Hoboo wrote: »
    Aiming to lose 'weight' is a dangerous goal. You'll have no arse and a fat belly in no time.

    That's a nonsense statement. :rolleyes:


    When people say they want to lose weight, they are talking about to bodyfat.
    Whether they say weight or bodyfat has no bearing on what their body metabolises.


  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭Cavey


    I try my best to reach my macro but I can't seem to get the balance right. Protein is fine but I am always under for fat and carbs.

    Any advice would be much appreciated!

    Hey! Have been doing keto for maybe 6 years but in the past 2 years, have transitioned more to a carnivore style diet.

    It sounds like you are doing it right. If you need to bump up your fat numbers, butter, cream and cheese will all help. Usually start my day with a coffee and throw in unsalted butter or cream. If you're having veg with your meal, coat them in lots of melted butter.

    Being under on carbs is fine, the lower the better so no need to stress there.

    There's also lots of fat bomb recipes out there which are a great way to bump fat numbers. Jason Wittrock has a really good fat bomb recipe, very easy to make too. For the sweetener, I used erythritol from amazon and then turned it into powdered erythritol using a spice grinder.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do7o-jykU_4

    Martina Slajerova has a really good fat bomb recipe book on amazon too if you think fat bombs are for you. Her other keto books are also really good if you need some more meal inspiration. http://www.reddit.com/r/ketorecipes is a great resource too (just don't browse it if you're hungry!)

    Mcdonald's can also be very keto friendly, experience has taught me it's easier to order on the self service machines rather than trying to explain the cashier. Breakfast menu I like to get a double sausage and egg mcmuffin meal. Then customize it so you have no bun, extra sausage, extra egg, extra butter, extra cheese and you can even add bacon! So it's basically a fry up and they serve it in one of those trays and give you a plastic knife/fork. Then just grab a salt sachet for the eggs. It comes with a coffee/tea too and also a hash brown which I either discard or give to a friend. The meal works out cheaper than ordering the muffin and drink separately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭tony1980


    Cavey wrote: »
    Hey! Have been doing keto for maybe 6 years but in the past 2 years, have transitioned more to a carnivore style diet.

    It sounds like you are doing it right. If you need to bump up your fat numbers, butter, cream and cheese will all help. Usually start my day with a coffee and throw in unsalted butter or cream. If you're having veg with your meal, coat them in lots of melted butter.

    Being under on carbs is fine, the lower the better so no need to stress there.

    There's also lots of fat bomb recipes out there which are a great way to bump fat numbers. Jason Wittrock has a really good fat bomb recipe, very easy to make too. For the sweetener, I used erythritol from amazon and then turned it into powdered erythritol using a spice grinder.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do7o-jykU_4

    Martina Slajerova has a really good fat bomb recipe book on amazon too if you think fat bombs are for you. Her other keto books are also really good if you need some more meal inspiration. http://www.reddit.com/r/ketorecipes is a great resource too (just don't browse it if you're hungry!)

    Mcdonald's can also be very keto friendly, experience has taught me it's easier to order on the self service machines rather than trying to explain the cashier. Breakfast menu I like to get a double sausage and egg mcmuffin meal. Then customize it so you have no bun, extra sausage, extra egg, extra butter, extra cheese and you can even add bacon! So it's basically a fry up and they serve it in one of those trays and give you a plastic knife/fork. Then just grab a salt sachet for the eggs. It comes with a coffee/tea too and also a hash brown which I either discard or give to a friend. The meal works out cheaper than ordering the muffin and drink separately.

    Excellent post!


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,430 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Cavey wrote: »
    Hey! Have been doing keto for maybe 6 years but in the past 2 years, have transitioned more to a carnivore style diet.

    It sounds like you are doing it right. If you need to bump up your fat numbers, butter, cream and cheese will all help. Usually start my day with a coffee and throw in unsalted butter or cream. If you're having veg with your meal, coat them in lots of melted butter.

    Being under on carbs is fine, the lower the better so no need to stress there.

    There's also lots of fat bomb recipes out there which are a great way to bump fat numbers. Jason Wittrock has a really good fat bomb recipe, very easy to make too. For the sweetener, I used erythritol from amazon and then turned it into powdered erythritol using a spice grinder.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do7o-jykU_4

    Martina Slajerova has a really good fat bomb recipe book on amazon too if you think fat bombs are for you. Her other keto books are also really good if you need some more meal inspiration. http://www.reddit.com/r/ketorecipes is a great resource too (just don't browse it if you're hungry!)

    Mcdonald's can also be very keto friendly, experience has taught me it's easier to order on the self service machines rather than trying to explain the cashier. Breakfast menu I like to get a double sausage and egg mcmuffin meal. Then customize it so you have no bun, extra sausage, extra egg, extra butter, extra cheese and you can even add bacon! So it's basically a fry up and they serve it in one of those trays and give you a plastic knife/fork. Then just grab a salt sachet for the eggs. It comes with a coffee/tea too and also a hash brown which I either discard or give to a friend. The meal works out cheaper than ordering the muffin and drink separately.

    Did you notice carnivore improving anything for you? It seems to be suit some people as an elimination diet to clear something or another up.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭Cavey


    silverharp wrote: »
    Did you notice carnivore improving anything for you? It seems to be suit some people as an elimination diet to clear something or another up.

    Well the switch from keto to carnivore happened naturally in my case. In that I naturally gravitated towards eating more meat and less veg, berries, nuts and dairy. This prompted me to search if there are people that do a meat only diet. It turns out there are lots and they seem to do very well! Mikhaila Peterson probably being one of the most famous to adapt carnviore.

    I do still have small amounts of dairy in the form of cheese, cream and butter but I do note that I feel more satiated after a meal if it contained no dairy.

    To answer your question, I do have suffer from an autoimmune disorder in the form of psoriasis. This is limited to redness and skin breakage around my face (under eyes and forehead). When I first made the switch to keto, there were massive improvements and flare ups became very rare but still occured occassionaly although nowhere near as severe.

    Now that I follow a mostly carnivore diet, flare ups are almost non existent. They are completely manageable though which is why I have not yet cut out dairy entirely. If I had to guess, I would say it is the small amounts of dairy I consume that give me very slight reactions. I will soon try eliminating all dairy just for curiousity.

    There is also a long term injury I have with my left knee. It causes me no issues currently but even consuming small amounts of carbohydrates in the form of veg or berries causes inflammation. I wouldn't classify it as severe inflammation but it's something I'd rather not endure if it can be avoided. It was most certainly severe inflammation when I consumed a moderate/high carb, high protein and low fat diet. The pain was so severe that I could not sit in comfort for more than 20 minutes. I would have to stand up after this amount of time. Going keto made took that knee inflammation from a pain rating of 9.5/10 to a 2/10. Carnivore reduced that inflammation further and it isn't something that bothers me anymore. Although to cure the problem I do leg/foot stretches along with foam rolling and specific strength training exercises like abduction drills, clams, eccentric squats on a slanted board and ankle band side walks.

    Aside from curing ailments, I would say my general mood and well being is better on carnivore. It has also drastically simplified my eating habits so grocery shopping is very simple. Cooking is a breeze too. Currently doing OMAD because it suits my current schedule and I think some form of fasting is something we should all try to be incorporating. I will have one or two americanos in the morning with cream or unsalted butter and then my main meal around 6pm.

    I will say too that my sister suffers from the very same autoimmune disorder psoriasis. She gets flare ups on her face but also her back. She also follows a vegan diet for maybe the past 8 months and I have never seen her skin so bad in my life. She was a pescotarian prior and her flare ups were still bad (worse than mine) but never anywhere close to this. Of course she is aware of my diet and thinks it is absurd and disgusting. We all have to make our own choices :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,430 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Cavey wrote: »
    Well the switch from keto to carnivore happened naturally in my case. In that I naturally gravitated towards eating more meat and less veg, berries, nuts and dairy. This prompted me to search if there are people that do a meat only diet. It turns out there are lots and they seem to do very well! Mikhaila Peterson probably being one of the most famous to adapt carnviore.

    I do still have small amounts of dairy in the form of cheese, cream and butter but I do note that I feel more satiated after a meal if it contained no dairy.

    To answer your question, I do have suffer from an autoimmune disorder in the form of psoriasis. This is limited to redness and skin breakage around my face (under eyes and forehead). When I first made the switch to keto, there were massive improvements and flare ups became very rare but still occured occassionaly although nowhere near as severe.

    Now that I follow a mostly carnivore diet, flare ups are almost non existent. They are completely manageable though which is why I have not yet cut out dairy entirely. If I had to guess, I would say it is the small amounts of dairy I consume that give me very slight reactions. I will soon try eliminating all dairy just for curiousity.

    There is also a long term injury I have with my left knee. It causes me no issues currently but even consuming small amounts of carbohydrates in the form of veg or berries causes inflammation. I wouldn't classify it as severe inflammation but it's something I'd rather not endure if it can be avoided. It was most certainly severe inflammation when I consumed a moderate/high carb, high protein and low fat diet. The pain was so severe that I could not sit in comfort for more than 20 minutes. I would have to stand up after this amount of time. Going keto made took that knee inflammation from a pain rating of 9.5/10 to a 2/10. Carnivore reduced that inflammation further and it isn't something that bothers me anymore. Although to cure the problem I do leg/foot stretches along with foam rolling and specific strength training exercises like abduction drills, clams, eccentric squats on a slanted board and ankle band side walks.

    Aside from curing ailments, I would say my general mood and well being is better on carnivore. It has also drastically simplified my eating habits so grocery shopping is very simple. Cooking is a breeze too. Currently doing OMAD because it suits my current schedule and I think some form of fasting is something we should all try to be incorporating. I will have one or two americanos in the morning with cream or unsalted butter and then my main meal around 6pm.

    I will say too that my sister suffers from the very same autoimmune disorder psoriasis. She gets flare ups on her face but also her back. She also follows a vegan diet for maybe the past 8 months and I have never seen her skin so bad in my life. She was a pescotarian prior and her flare ups were still bad (worse than mine) but never anywhere close to this. Of course she is aware of my diet and thinks it is absurd and disgusting. We all have to make our own choices :(

    Interesting your sister is doing the complete opposite, maybe you will convince her to go over to the dark side ;-) if a diet isn’t working she would be mad to continue with veganism. I sub to a few carnivores on Twitter, Dr Baker for example. I tried it for about a month but didn’t notice any bump in anything but that was from a base of low carb. I like my yogurt, eggs, cheese etc. though have made a point of cutting out/down on nuts almond flour or making low carb version of things. It certainly makes shopping easier , 1 or 2 isles and done.
    Fasting is a great idea, I did more last year but this year decided to up my physical activity and didn’t do as much fasting but did various versions of time restricted eating. Decided to reboot the fasting this week as it happens, on day 3 and grand so far , most I ever did was 4 days in a row. I’ ll see what I want to do after, 1 day a week, 5 days once a qtr. Or something.

    Do you stick most to beef? Or make a point of including organ meat?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,625 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Hopefully someone might be able to help me here

    I’ve lost a decent bit of weigh with a low carb diet, typically trying to stay below 25g net carbs a day.

    Initially I was undercounting my net carbs as I was following US food labeling and subtracting the fiber from the carbs when I discovered that the carb figure on EU food labels already has the fiber subtracted and is therefore the net carb figure.

    To get to a net carb figure I understand that you can also deduct sugars that polyol.

    I was eating a protein bar today and the carb figure was 10.2g and sugar polyols were 7.3g.

    Is the correct calculation for the net carbs 10.2g or 2.9g (10.2-7.3)

    Appreciate any help provided as there is s big difference

    Thanks

    TbL


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,376 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Sometimes carb counts include poly old, sometimes not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,625 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Mellor wrote: »
    Sometimes carb counts include poly old, sometimes not.


    Thanks for your reply, could you please elaborate if you could as I don’t understand how they can count sometimes and not others

    Thank you

    TbL


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,430 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    If anyone is aware of Ivor Cummins (A Dubliner btw) , you will like this one, gets into some issues people might have on keto if not hitting weight loss goals. One for the headphones and go for a walk, at least you will have gone for a walk :)

    Great conversation recently with Nick Paterson of https://lihfliving.com/ - "Low Inflammation, High Fat Living".
    Not everyone will like one of the core points made - especially the one about some people having significant issues with eating dairy products...! But we must always openly discuss what may affect some people who are sensitive to certain foods - because they are the ones who will suffer, not everyone else...

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭Nollog


    Thanks for your reply, could you please elaborate if you could as I don’t understand how they can count sometimes and not others

    Thank you

    TbL

    Polyols are an annoying bunch.
    Some count for half digestible carbs, others a third, one (xylatol I think? - Something with an X anyway) 0. I personally don't bother discounting the polyol carbs in things, as it gets a bit complicated and it's down to each persons body so there's no real way to tell how many carbs you're eating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,625 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    /\/ollog wrote: »
    Polyols are an annoying bunch.
    Some count for half digestible carbs, others a third, one (xylatol I think? - Something with an X anyway) 0. I personally don't bother discounting the polyol carbs in things, as it gets a bit complicated and it's down to each persons body so there's no real way to tell how many carbs you're eating.


    Thank you.

    TbL


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭tony1980


    silverharp wrote: »
    If anyone is aware of Ivor Cummins (A Dubliner btw) , you will like this one, gets into some issues people might have on keto if not hitting weight loss goals. One for the headphones and go for a walk, at least you will have gone for a walk :)





    Yep, been following him awhile, really smart guy and I really enjoy his podcasts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,430 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    tony1980 wrote: »
    Yep, been following him awhile, really smart guy and I really enjoy his podcasts.

    its my project for next year to go and get a CAC done

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,114 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Thinking of trying this.
    Where can I get some meal ideas


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭tony1980


    Eat Well Live Long is a great book to explain everything with Meal plans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,114 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Will look out for that.
    What are your number 2’s like on such a high fat diet?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,094 ✭✭✭The Cool


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Will look out for that.
    What are your number 2’s like on such a high fat diet?

    Quality over quantity :pac:

    You're eating a lot less bulk, you definitely need more water and I find I have to supplement my magnesium to keep things running smoothly. Depends on how much greenage etc you are eating - a good portion of leaves or broccoli in a meal say, but you mightn't find yourself hungry for those once you are fat adapted and into the run of things. I eat a lot of avocado too so manage ok with my fibre.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭Minime2.5


    This diet is actually very restrictive and not necessary whether your trying to lose weight or get healthy . Most people don't realise that this diet isn't something tat was developed recently . In fact it was developed 100 years ago by a doctor as a therapeutic treatment for epilepsy . The fast majority of people that think they are doing keto aren't because keto isn't just low carb , its fairly low in protein too. A low carb diet when high in protein breaks ketosis because protein can be converted to sugar by a process called gluconeogenesis . Regardless you don't have to be in ketosis to lose weight and the reason low carb diets seem like they are superior for fatloss is because you drop a lot of water weight on this type of diet . Carbs are stored in muscles in the form of glycogen and when carbs are cut back this is all lost . I love lifting weights in the gym and its probably the best form of exercise . There is nothing better to eat to aid recovery after an intense weight training session then a big steak and spuds with veg dinner


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