ketogenic forum

Nollog

All weight loss diets are restrictive, that's the point of them.

Minime2.5

/\/ollog wrote: »

All weight loss diets are restrictive, that's the point of them.

LOL. Actually no the point of a weight loss diet isn't to be restrictive , the point is to allow you to lose weight. All you need to lose weight is to be in a negative energy balance which can be achieved with a combination of eating less and moving more. Restriction in food variety is not required to lose weight. Of course people will favour different food choices and if eating keto is what one truly enjoys eating then they aren't restricting themselves because that's what they like to eat and have at it as far as I'm concerned. But there are many people that follow keto because they believe carbs cause weight gain even in a calorie deficit and that's what they think they need to do

Alf Veedersane

Minime2.5 wrote: »

But there are many people that follow keto because they believe carbs cause weight gain even in a calorie deficit and that's what they think they need to do

Well, yeah there's that element too.

"I lost so much weight since I gave up carbs"

"No that's because you're not eating all those calorie-dense breakfast rolls and pizzas"

c.p.w.g.w

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Well, yeah there's that element too.

"I lost so much weight since I gave up carbs"

"No that's because you're not eating all those calorie-dense breakfast rolls and pizzas"

I agree with you. But refined carbs and hormone reaction to that free sugar plays a role too. It's not just calories, it's the vast amount of sugar leading to metabolic issues

Minime2.5

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I agree with you. But refined carbs and hormone reaction to that free sugar plays a role too. It's not just calories, it's the vast amount of sugar leading to metabolic issues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eq8VObUFsk

Alf Veedersane

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I agree with you. But refined carbs and hormone reaction to that free sugar plays a role too. It's not just calories, it's the vast amount of sugar leading to metabolic issues

For a majority of people that give up carbs because carbs = weight gain, they're mostly just eating too much. To be clear, I'm talking about people I've encountered. I'm not arguing the science. Just the actual level of impact vs caloric intake

Mellor

Minime2.5 wrote: »

That's twisting what I'm saying, your statement is actually backing up the point I'm actually trying to make.

I'm not twisting anything. I'm pointing out the flaw in your argument.
Nobody is claiming you have to follow a keto diet to lose weight. So pointing out that you don't have to proves nothing.
It has no bearing whether or not it is people have their own elective reasons that suit them.

Minime2.5 wrote: »

LOL. Actually no the point of a weight loss diet isn't to be restrictive , the point is to allow you to lose weight. All you need to lose weight is to be in a negative energy balance...

In order to achieve a negative energy balance, you need to restrict calories.
Therefore it is restrictive, by definition.

You can do that in a number of ways.
Arguing that ypur way of achieve it is the best way, is completely wrong, and incredibly ironic.

Minime2.5

Mellor wrote: »

You can do that in a number of ways.
Arguing that ypur way of achieve it is the best way, is completely wrong, and incredibly ironic.

I know you can do it in a number of ways. I never said you couldn't. I also didn't give a way so I'm not sure how you came up with that. I would welcome if you quoted me to back up your accusation

Mellor

Minime2.5 wrote: »

I know you can do it in a number of ways. I never said you couldn't. I also didn't give a way so I'm not sure how you came up with that. I would welcome if you quoted me to back up your accusation

What have I accused you of?
You seem to be struggled to find the correct words, which is leading to your point of being garbled.

Minime2.5

Mellor wrote: »

What have I accused you of?
You seem to be struggled to find the correct words, which is leading to your point of being garbled.

I wouldn't be having a go at someone's command of written English if I were you, your two quotes both have spelling mistakes missing words and are both incorrectly constructed .Anyway I was referring to this

Mellor wrote: »

Arguing that ypur way of achieve it is the best way, is completely wrong, and incredibly ironic.

What way did I argue was the best way?

Mellor

You’re calling that accusation?

you’re complaining that keto is not necessary. You suggested an alternative. While it’s a valid approach, it’s also not a necessary approach.
Different methods will suit people differently. Insisting one is inherently right or wrong is ridiculous.

Minime2.5

Mellor wrote: »

You’re calling that accusation?

you’re complaining that keto is not necessary. You suggested an alternative. While it’s a valid approach, it’s also not a necessary approach.
Different methods will suit people differently. Insisting one is inherently right or wrong is ridiculous.

I said keto wasn't necessary but if one truly enjoys eating this way then have at it. I didn't actually offer a specific alternative but the alternative is fairly obvious. As long as calories and protein are equated then a higher carb lower fat approach is an option

Gael23

I’m only eating one keto meal daily so far but I can only see benefit with one exception that will all the meat increase the risk of bowel cancer.

Mellor

Minime2.5 wrote: »

I didn't actually offer a specific alternative but the alternative is fairly obvious.

Pretty sure you said all you need is negatively energy balance. That’s one approach. It’s not a very good one. But if you achieve it, it would certainly work.

As long as calories and protein are equated then a higher carb lower fat approach is an option

Is an option. Not a very good one. But an option.
Fad diet magazines will be flogging it for a few years yet.

Minime2.5

Mellor wrote: »

Pretty sure you said all you need is negatively energy balance. That’s one approach. It’s not a very good one. But if you achieve it, it would certainly work.


Is an option. Not a very good one. But an option.
Fad diet magazines will be flogging it for a few years yet.

I said being being in a calorie deficit was all that is required to lose weight however is wasn't a recommendation I was giving for the optimal way to lose weight. The fast majority of people want to at maintain lean muscle on a fat loss diet so the main drivers of that is weightraining and an optimal amount of protein in your diet

Also regarding your second comment. What the hell are you talking about . So any diet that has higher carbs than keto are fad diets . That's basically what your saying

I've no idea how you relate a higher carb diet than keto as a fat diet . For example a higher carb diet for a day could be

7am breakfast

Bowl of oatmeal
Handful of blue berries
3 to 4 egg omelette
Spinach
Onion
Tomatoe

Lunch

Chicken breast
Serving of brown rice
Serving of mixed veg

Dinner

Salmon or steak
Baked potato
Mixed veg

Snack before bed

Greek yogurt and an apple

Now tell me this is a higher carb than keto . What is faddy about that

Mellor

Minime2.5 wrote: »

The fast majority of people want to at maintain lean muscle on a fat loss diet so the main drivers of that is weightraining and an optimal amount of protein in your diet

Which is easily achievable on keto, and many diets. 1g/lb, as an example, is nowhere near required energy intake.

Also regarding your second comment. What the hell are you talking about . So any diet that has higher carbs than keto are fad diets .

I think you should re-read what I actually wrote.

Glossy fad diet magazine having been pushing low fat/ high carb for years. That doesn’t imply every low fat diet is a fad diet. Although the bad science would apply in either case.

The sample diets hits lots of natural whole food points. But it’s very low in natural fats imo.

Minime2.5

Mellor wrote: »

Which is easily achievable on keto, and many diets. 1g/lb, as an example, is nowhere near required energy intake.


I think you should re-read what I actually wrote.

Glossy fad diet magazine having been pushing low fat/ high carb for years. That doesn’t imply every low fat diet is a fad diet. Although the bad science would apply in either case.

The sample diets hits lots of natural whole food points. But it’s very low in natural fats imo.

And I think you should 're read what I wrote. I didn't just recommend a low fat higher carb approach . I said if protein is equated . Yes you can eat low carb high fat and get in optimal protein ( not really keto more Atkins to be true ) but what if you'd prefer to eat carbs ? Well then all one needs to do is keep protein intake the same . Lower the fat intake and replace the fat with carbs. Simple. And carbs are 4 cals per gram and fat is 9 the overall volume of food will increase

Mellor

Yes you can eat low carb high fat and get in optimal protein ( not really keto more Atkins to be true )

If carbs are low enough to trigger ketosis, its keto. Atkins is a brand.

Minime2.5 wrote: »

And I think you should 're read what I wrote. I didn't just recommend a low fat higher carb approach . I said if protein is equated

I understood what you meant. Adequate protein, high carb, low fat.
I still don't agree it's a good approach (outside those with high energy demands) as fat is necessary and shouldn't be demonised. Repeating the same thing doesn't change my opinion.

If somebody prefers carbs and wants to build their diet around carbs, go for it.
But you original point was that keto isn't necessary.

My point has been that the exact same logic applies to your suggestion. It's not necessary either. So it's not a very valid criticism. Nobody here was claim it's necessary, although some probably think that it is.

RogerThis

5 weeks in, lost about a stone, happy so far. Did the same 2 years ago for 3 weeks, but Christmas came, and I gave in and up.
This time I kept it up during the Christmas, not sure it was complete keto on Christmas day, but it was low carb for sure. Not drinking this time round so that makes it easier. My OH is on it too which helps, but she has taken a few off days for parties and christmas day. Her birthday is coming up soon, so she is planning to have another few off days for that too. She planning to keep it up after that. Easier to start again when I'm doing it and giving out about her crappy food choices.

Some great inspiration on this thread. Haven't tried any IF yet, maybe when I get back to work. I haven't been checking my macros every day, probably too much protein and not enough fat, but the pee test is telling me I'm in ketosis. I'm planning to do this long term for the six months anyways. I'll see how I go, one day at a time and all that.

3 meals a day.
Breakfast: 2 eggs with rashers\sausages\chorizo cooking with coconut oil.
Lunch: Salad with Chicken\mackerel\salmon with olives and cheese
Dinner Duck\steak\meat with cabbage\broccoli\asparagus
Try to put rashers, butter and olive oil on most things I eat.

I have a bovril most days. I have high 5 electrolyte twice a day.
Also have a bottle of water with teaspoon of salt in it everyday, seem to help with the concentration.
I snack on nuts walnuts pecan or brazil nuts. Have some 85% chocolate each night.

It wasnt me123

I am T2 diabetic and starting Keto tomorrow. I’ve done a lot of research on the keto lifestyle and feel I have enough information to start. I’m interested in what the high 5 electrolytes are? I plan on doing IF fairly soon, either Thursday or Friday and using Oxo cubes for salt etc. What vitamins, if any, are people taking? TIA

Gael23

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I am T2 diabetic and starting Keto tomorrow. I’ve done a lot of research on the keto lifestyle and feel I have enough information to start. I’m interested in what the high 5 electrolytes are? I plan on doing IF fairly soon, either Thursday or Friday and using Oxo cubes for salt etc. What vitamins, if any, are people taking? TIA

I would consult your doctor first due to the diabetes

RogerThis

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I am T2 diabetic and starting Keto tomorrow. I’ve done a lot of research on the keto lifestyle and feel I have enough information to start. I’m interested in what the high 5 electrolytes are? I plan on doing IF fairly soon, either Thursday or Friday and using Oxo cubes for salt etc. What vitamins, if any, are people taking? TIA

high 5 electrolytes https://highfive.co.uk/product/hydration/zero/ I get them in SuperValu. But you can get them in the chemist or holland and barrett.
You would want to check the Oxo cubes for carbs, I use bovril.

Best of luck, I found the second day the hardest, but I wasn't taking the extra salt then.

It wasnt me123

Gael23 wrote: »

I would consult your doctor first due to the diabetes

No need to consult GP - T2 have to lose weight and cut back on sugar - too many carbs that you don’t use = too much sugar so keto is ideal for T2 - T1 may be different as that is auto immune - T2 is mainly diet related.

RogerThis

Take your weight today, also make sure to take pictures in your underwear today and measurements especially waist, but also chest, hips, thighs, calves, upper arm and forearm. This will help you keep motivated on the quiet days the scales aren't moving.

You will lose weight fast within the first week, but this is mainly water weight.

tringle

Hi all, does anyone know of any clinics or medical practitioners specialising in a keto approach here. My own GP keeps on at me about my cholesterol and while i am almost convinced cholesterol isnt an issue any of the keto books and forums i read still have a warning that it may be an issue for some people. So looking to get it properly checked and monitored.

curly from cork

If an online approach helps you I could recommend
www.RunwithRos.ie/Healthy-Eating.
It’s online line course, I did it a few years ago. You get all the advice you need and recipes and instructions sent to you. She also does a lot through a What’s Apps group. It’s a course of 10weeks and costs €150.
By the time the course was over I had a very comprehensive recipe book with all the theory to back it up. My weight loss was very impressive with almost no exercise and genuinely no hunger pangs.
Hope that helps. I also found dietdoctor.com to be very good
Interestingly and I almost forgot to mention .. I was taking a nexuim type of tablet daily for reflux problems, if I forgot to take it I knew all about it, having followed this way of eating after about 3 weeks I didn’t need the nexuim.. for me it seems very low carb intake is my answer to banishing heartburn and reflux issues

tringle

Thanks Curly, ive been following a keto approach for a while and its working for me. My specific concern relates to cholesterol and medication. While new approaches suggest it isnt an issue i havent read any evidence to 100% say this. So before i ditch my statins im looking for proper medical guidance and support.

It wasnt me123

I'm a T2 diabetic and on a statin. I'm doing keto 4 days, good results so far and no hunger but I'm still taking all my medication. I have blood tests every 6 mths for the T2 and they check the cholesterol level - if its gone down dramatically I will stop the statin and I hope to be off all medication eventually.

By the way, I recently heard Dr Eva did the keto diet in her clinics. I'm not sure if they are still operating, and its expensive, but her clinic might be an option for you.

If you intend doing keto, do loads of research - there is loads out there.

steve rock

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It wasnt me123

If this is a genuine post you should put up how much it costs

italodisco

Have any of you done the actual ketosis diet and used urine test strips to confirm the presence of ketones etc.
You are aware that is the only true way, you need to check that your kidneys are producing excessive ketones, you are not in actual ketosis otherwise.

I did it for 7 months and stayed in ketosis for 6 months, I lost so much weight and the energy increase was amazing. Bye bye brain fog, fatigue etc.

A baby came along and I couldn't commit to it at that point but I'm starting again in March!

Mellor

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

If this is a genuine post you should put up how much it costs

It’s clearly spam

Mellor

italodisco wrote: »

Have any of you done the actual ketosis diet and used urine test strips to confirm the presence of ketones etc.
You are aware that is the only true way, you need to check that your kidneys are producing excessive ketones, you are not in actual ketosis otherwise.

“Actual ketosis diet”???

Whether you use urine strips or not has no bearing on whether you are actually in ketosis.
It’s a check, it doesn’t affect the outcome.
It’s also not the only way to check, and comes with some flaws.

Nollog

italodisco wrote: »

Have any of you done the actual ketosis diet and used urine test strips to confirm the presence of ketones etc.
You are aware that is the only true way, you need to check that your kidneys are producing excessive ketones, you are not in actual ketosis otherwise.

I did it for 7 months and stayed in ketosis for 6 months, I lost so much weight and the energy increase was amazing. Bye bye brain fog, fatigue etc.

A baby came along and I couldn't commit to it at that point but I'm starting again in March!

I have. I used the strips to check if I was in ketosis back when I first started, now I don't use them at all. It takes 2 days of 20 or less grams of carbs to put me into ketosis.

Also:
Aldi have a newish product called "bang bang cauliflower". It's 8.7g carbs for half the pack. Tastes like a decent Thai.

sidcon

/\/ollog wrote: »

Aldi have a newish product called "bang bang cauliflower". It's 8.7g carbs for half the pack. Tastes like a decent Thai.

Which Aldi have you seen this in I've only seen it in England

Nollog

sidcon wrote: »

Which Aldi have you seen this in I've only seen it in England

Every aldi I've been in(The two in Letterkenny and some around county Tipperary.), sometimes they have the mint peas instead, and can't get rid of them for months and months...

The mint peas are pretty high carbs, and not that great either.

RogerThis

Is that in the frozen food section?

Nollog

Yes, they're smallish bags in the freezer chests.

Midlife crisis man

Does anybody have a link to some good keto meal plans?

tony1980

Midlife crisis man wrote: »

Does anybody have a link to some good keto meal plans?

There's plenty out there if you give a quick google but I found this book great.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eat-Rich-Live-Long-Mastering-ebook/dp/B07B8FMFRQ

jaffa20

I did Keto/Atkins diet last year for approx 7 months and lost nearly 3 stone. I found it difficult. This time around, i am going to try a moderate carb diet. I'm going to try see if i can maintain or lose maybe another stone while keeping my carbs around the 100 grams mark. At least i can enjoy some treats this way. I find it hard without the odd small portion of chips or a potato with my dinner.

Not sure how a moderate carb diet works but i think i need to up the exercise also. I defiitely notice if i eat more carbs, i get a craving for more but it just require more willpower.

At the moment i'm 15 and half stone and 6 foot.

Nollog

The cauliflower is 99c now. I think I attached a photo...

drunkmonkey

Anyone used the carb manager app, only using it 2 days, want to try the keto for a while to clean up my liver and loose belly fat.
I'm not sure if I have it set too restrictive or keeping under 16g of Carbs a day is what you need to be doing. It's has me at 1314 calories every day with 16g of Carbs.
Only on second day and at 15g for the day. Screwed up yesterday with porridge and milk for breakfast.

It wasnt me123

It sounds about right though 16g is quite low - I’ve seen forums where you can go up to 20g of carbs.

sidcon

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Anyone used the carb manager app, only using it 2 days, want to try the keto for a while to clean up my liver and loose belly fat.
I'm not sure if I have it set too restrictive or keeping under 16g of Carbs a day is what you need to be doing. It's has me at 1314 calories every day with 16g of Carbs.
Only on second day and at 15g for the day. Screwed up yesterday with porridge and milk for breakfast.

Yes I use this app very american in terms of food but slower being populated with foods sold in Ireland, a lot of the details are imported so double check the nutritional information put into anything you scan.
In terms of your settings that sounds quiet low but again we wouldn't know until we know what your stats are. Do not calorie count on keto is my advice.

Mellor

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

It sounds about right though 16g is quite low - I’ve seen forums where you can go up to 20g of carbs.

I'd assume that the app calculating carb requirements as 5% of total.
5% of 1314 calories is 16g carbs

sidcon wrote: »

Do not calorie count on keto is my advice.

It's still good to have a awareness of your calories intake

sidcon

Mellor wrote: »

I'd assume that the app calculating carb requirements as 5% of total.
5% of 1314 calories is 16g carbs



It's still good to have a awareness of your calories intake

True, didn't mean to say you can go out and eat a 20z steak covered in cheese sauce.🧀🥩😋
Use your calories as a guide only.
Nett Carbs are a guide also, total carbs should not reach over 50g.
Extremely important do not go over your protein goal either as your body will turn that into energy rather than the fats.
75% fats, 20% protein 5% carbs is what I try to stick with, I'm down two stone over 2 months following this.

Nollog

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Anyone used the carb manager app, only using it 2 days, want to try the keto for a while to clean up my liver and loose belly fat.
I'm not sure if I have it set too restrictive or keeping under 16g of Carbs a day is what you need to be doing. It's has me at 1314 calories every day with 16g of Carbs.
Only on second day and at 15g for the day. Screwed up yesterday with porridge and milk for breakfast.

We use an app called nutracheck it's free for a week but after that you get 5 entries a day, which you can abuse to make a meal with all the items in them and you can edit them as much as you like if you only add 4 meals (you need the 1 space free to make the changes-done automatically).
It's a British app so it has everything in aldi, Lidl, tesco, and takeaways. Even has some Dunnes stuff.

I calculate my macros with https://keto-calculator.ankerl.com

20g carbs is a good starting point, you can adjust it up and down for yourself, some people can be in ketosis even at 30g. I used to be able to do 25 but I've been adapted so long I don't go over 21.

drunkmonkey

sidcon wrote: »

Yes I use this app very american in terms of food but slower being populated with foods sold in Ireland, a lot of the details are imported so double check the nutritional information put into anything you scan.
In terms of your settings that sounds quiet low but again we wouldn't know until we know what your stats are. Do not calorie count on keto is my advice.

Finding it has a lot of the foods from lidl, stats wise 5'11 and way too close to 17st dad belly has got out of control. It's not the weight has made me decide to try it out, I was getting exhausted way too easily, I reckon my liver is way to fatty, had a scan a few mts back and doc warned me to sort it out or face the consequences.

I don't know am I doing the keto thing right for what I'm trying to achieve, food seems way to fatty, not complaining if that's correct.

This is how my stats ended up for the day...am I right in thinking it's just about finding the right balance with, fiber, fat, protein and cut out carbs..seems too easy..

Nollog

sidcon wrote: »

True, didn't mean to say you can go out and eat a 20z steak covered in cheese sauce.🧀🥩😋
Use your calories as a guide only.
Nett Carbs are a guide also, total carbs should not reach over 50g.
Extremely important do not go over your protein goal either as your body will turn that into energy rather than the fats.
75% fats, 20% protein 5% carbs is what I try to stick with, I'm down two stone over 2 months following this.

Protein keeps muscle, you should keep proteins at 1-2 grams per kg of lean weight. Is that 20%?