Sonia O’Sullivan: Our athletes need to win on track not social media

Working class heroes

Chivito550 wrote: »

How do you know I haven’t?

It was a straight forward question and you gave your usual smarmy reply.
You either did or you didn’t. If you did, did you get any feedback?
If you didn’t well maybe you should, eh?

Chivito550

average_runner wrote: »

This is good point, there is no money in Athletics for an average professional, they know they can earn more in a good job or in other sports.

Why would someone become a professional Athlete in Ireland to just struggle while they can get a good job, nice house and the perks of what ever they want.

There is no reward for an Athlete except for the love of the sport and that's not enough any more obviously and I don't blame them.

Eh, well for some. Many of us have good jobs and are nowhere near getting any sort of house in Dublin, not to mention a nice one.

Sin scéil eile though.

Chivito550

Working class heroes wrote: »

It was a straight forward question and you gave your usual smarmy reply.
You either did or you didn’t. If you did, did you get any feedback?
If you didn’t well maybe you should, eh?

Nice to see you chime in with no contribution to the thread whatsoever, just to leave a snide personal jibe.

Safiri

Halloween Jack wrote: »

I see a lot of stuff on this forum decrying the fact that the mass participation in running is doing nothing or very little for the elite end of the sport in this country, but I never understood what the need to produce more world class athletes is? It always seemed to me that the tangible benefit of having an elite superstar is to inspire more people to participate, so, if we already have loads of people participating, why do we need more world class Elite athletes, other than to have someone to cheer on at major champs etc?

This is a genuine question, just interested in people’s perspectives.

Because this boom will ultimately come to an end and in 5-10 years time; we could be back to the late 90's and early 2000's where nothing is happening at any level of the sport, participation wise or competitively. Looking at the now and resting on your laurels never ends well.

And because I am a fan of the sport and patriotic to the point where I want to see Irish athletes competing at the highest level and give hope to younger generations that it's possible to get to that level and chase their own dreams. As I said in the second post; this boom is built on an older demographic. Kids love to see sports stars and it inspires them, If johnny from down the road becomes an elite athlete, it can inspire a whole community, county and country of kids to take up the sport which is the generation that in turn will inspire the next one again. The more successful Irish athletes are, the more kids will be drawn to the sport. The more friends involved, the more likely they are to stay in the sport in their late teens(The 15-30 age group is desolate in athletics).

We as a country are nowhere near as healthy as we once were and current participation levels do not infer that physical education is higher. 1 in every 3 kids in the country is now classed as obese which is the highest it has ever been and is rapidly rising. Getting more kids into the sport would be great for both physical and mental health of the population as the benefits of athletics on well being are huge. It's just a deductive theory but we can't fall into the trap of saying everything is great and rosey in the garden now as partipation numbers are high overall. It's not that straightforward. What happens if/when the numbers start to fall? Athletics would be back fighting against the tide again.

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

Eh, well for some. Many of us have good jobs and are nowhere near getting any sort of house in Dublin, not to mention a nice one.

Sin scéil eile though.

That's why I didn't mention Dublin

RayCun

Safiri wrote: »

The vast majority of the running boom is made up of 35+ runners. Athletics Ireland could have 500,000 members but if the demographics of number aren't favouring the young; you cannot expect huge levels of elite runners to be produced. People can blame social media, colour runs or charity events all they want but the truth is that the base of the pyramid lies in juvenile athletics; not local fun runs where the average age is close to 40.

Actually most members of Athletics Ireland are young - 30,000 of the 50,000 members are juveniles. Most adult members are Masters, not Seniors, there is a missing cohort of 20-something athletes, but the juvenile base is enormous.
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/downloads/other/April_Club.pdf

Working class heroes

Chivito550 wrote: »

Nice to see you chime in with no contribution to the thread whatsoever, just to leave a snide personal jibe.

No problem, anytime.

average_runner

RayCun wrote: »

Actually most members of Athletics Ireland are young - 30,000 of the 50,000 members are juveniles. Most adult members are Masters, not Seniors, there is a missing cohort of 20-something athletes, but the juvenile base is enormous.
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/downloads/other/April_Club.pdf

But how many of those junvenile's move to senior each year?

We can produce stats to suit anything, but results speak for themselves.

Safiri

RayCun wrote: »

Actually most members of Athletics Ireland are young - 30,000 of the 50,000 members are juveniles. Most adult members are Masters, not Seniors, there is a missing cohort of 20-something athletes, but the juvenile base is enormous.
http://www.athleticsireland.ie/downloads/other/April_Club.pdf

Interesting. How active are those juvenile members though? From attending a lot of County and Provincial track and XC meets, I find some of the Juvenile numbers from my County unbelievable. There's clubs there with relatively big juvenile numbers that I didn't even know existed and some that I've never even seen at a juvenile championship race who would have 3-4 times the number of juvenile members of my own club

RayCun

average_runner wrote: »

But how many of those junvenile's move to senior each year?

To junior - not many, only 372 juniors nationally

Safiri wrote: »

Interesting. How active are those juvenile members though? From attending a lot of County and Provincial track and XC meets, I find some of the Juvenile numbers from my County unbelievable. There's clubs there with relatively big juvenile numbers that I didn't even know existed and some that I've never even seen at a juvenile championship race who would have 3-4 times the number of juvenile members of my own club

Some coaches/clubs aren't fans of juvenile competition, and some have trouble translating numbers at training to numbers competing.

average_runner

RayCun wrote: »

To junior - not many, only 372 juniors nationally

That's the killer part there. How do we solve that?

Murph_D

average_runner wrote: »

That's the killer part there. How do we solve that?

Speed up the aging process?




(Sorry, couldn’t resist). :pac:

walshb

She does make a very good point about the average age being 38 for women’s Euro marathon team. That’s has-been territority, but does she not know that usually the marathon attracts older athletes who have progressed to the marathon in the twilight of their careers?

pc11

walshb wrote: »

...but does she not know that usually the marathon attracts older athletes who have progressed to the marathon in the twilight of their careers?

Seriously? I'm willing to bet a large sum that she knows this perfectly well.

walshb

pc11 wrote: »

Seriously? I'm willing to bet a large sum that she knows this perfectly well.

Paddy Power’s online app is the bees knees!

RayCun

Marathon runners tend to be older, which is not the same as "in the twilight of their careers"

And the men have an average age of 32 or 33, a substantial difference.

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

She does make a very good point about the average age being 38 for women’s Euro marathon team. That’s has-been territority, but does she not know that usually the marathon attracts older athletes who have progressed to the marathon in the twilight of their careers?

She ran the marathon when she was way past her best. Of course she knows. She’s not clueless.

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

She ran the marathon when she was way past her best. Of course she knows. She’s not clueless.

Jaysus...

My question was rhetorical...

So why is she asking about it.....?

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Jaysus...

My question was rhetorical...

So why is she asking about it.....?

The marathon has moved on. Many of the best these days have skipped straight to the marathon and are of a younger age. Maybe she’s wondering why this trend hasn’t translated to Irish athletics. Who knows.

RayCun

I think she's making the same point that has been made here, about athletes disappearing in their twenties.

Marathon runners tend to be older because it's an event where high mileage and a high degree of aerobic development is important. Both of those build up with training, while speed peaks earlier. It is natural to shift focus to longer events when improvement at shorter distances is becoming harder, but you have developed a massive engine. If athletes are dropping out in their early twenties, they are not reaching their marathon peak.

For example, the story about the junior cross country team from a few years ago, most of whom aren't competing any more. The normal course would be for some of them to be marathon runners by now. It's more noticeable on the women's side because there are fewer women competing at a high level.

ultrapercy

Sonia was a guest at The West of Ireland Womens Marathon in Castlebar last weekend. I dont know what fee she comands these days but she is very good value for it. She took part herself taking 48 mins to complete the course but she was encouraging to those around her which seems to be the most important thing to her. Before and after she was accomodating to the point of sainthood to requests for photos and selfies. Indeed it was surprising to me how in demand she was not only by my vintage but young women and girls who wouldnt really remember her career. She has an aura about her kind of like Paul McGrath does. She is an ambassador for the sport and all sport without needing to try.
Now the article was a bit all over the place and read like it was put together in a hurry without a cohesive plan. It was a mish mash of swirling thoughts and emotions of someone who had a busy weekend and was trying to sort it out in her own head. A lot of what she said had some value. On Sunday she remarked with amusement on the amount of phones being used during the race. Maybe that was the kernal of the social media remark? I dont think it was intended to single out any individual or group but an overview on society at large.
I dont think Sonia has or claims to have all the answeres but she still has an enormous presence in Irish sporting society so she is worth listening to even when what she says isnt very well worded or edited. i

Joe_ Public

Sounds to me she is being more diplomatic than she'd wish to be on the age profile issue. Which is understandable. It's an inspiring story in its own right, dont give up on your dreams because you fail to achieve success early or first time round etc, and all those athletes are entitled to feel very proud of themselves. But, still, an average age of 38? Even given the tendency of older age profiles in marathon running, I found that a sobering statistic to read and I suspect it is totally alien to Sonia's sense of competitiveness and will to win. I guess she is just raising a point that has been made here repeatedly and elsewhere, but it does tend to carry that much weight when it comes from someone with her status.

I think she was wide of the mark with the stuff about social media, though, just seems like a big red herring to me.

Testosterscone

Joe_ Public wrote: »

. But, still, an average age of 38? Even given the tendency of older age profiles in marathon running, I found that a sobering statistic to read

Just on the age point. Here are some of the noteworthy European women's results in the marathon in recent times

- 2008 Olympic Marathon winner Constantina Dita (38)
- 2013/14 World/European Silver medalist Valeria Straneo (37 & 38)
- 2014 European Champion (and current) Christelle Daunay (39)

Joe_ Public

Testosterscone wrote: »

Just on the age point. Here are some of the noteworthy European women's results in the marathon in recent times

- 2008 Olympic Marathon winner Constantina Dita (38)
- 2013/14 World/European Silver medalist Valeria Straneo (37 & 38)
- 2014 European Champion (and current) Christelle Daunay (39)

Take the point for sure. Fwiw it wasn't the fact that there were older athletes on the team but more the "average age" part that i personally found mildly shocking. I wouldnt have the knowledge to dismiss the above as outliers, but I'd doubt you'd get many olympic marathon champions over 30 all the same. Is there a trend driving the average age of medal winners steadily upwards?

NIMAN

She only mentioned social media in one line?

I assumed it was going to be a real assassination job.

Murph_D

NIMAN wrote: »

She only mentioned social media in one line?

I assumed it was going to be a real assassination job.

Columnists don't write their own headlines. The sub-editor is just trying to big up this aspect and generate some clicks (ironically, on social media).

Joe_ Public

Murph_D wrote: »

Columnists don't write their own headlines. The sub-editor is just trying to big up this aspect and generate some clicks (ironically, on social media).

They don't always, or even often, write their own articles either, though have a feeling SOS may be one of the exceptions.

Testosterscone

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Take the point for sure. Fwiw it wasn't the fact that there were older athletes on the team but more the "average age" part that i personally found mildly shocking. I wouldnt have the knowledge to dismiss the above as outliers, but I'd doubt you'd get many olympic marathon champions over 30 all the same. Is there a trend driving the average age of medal winners steadily upwards?

Wouldn't say it's a driving trend however I do think that European female athletes tend to be traditionally that bit older (they still haven't changed the sport of marathon running like the men which now see's athletes going straight to the marathon)

Even in African top female marathon runners tend to be over 30 Keitany (36) Dibaba (32) Cherono (35) Cheruiyot (34)

Should be noted as well that you have Shaughnessy coming through to marathon distance and Linda Byrne returning to running and gaining fitness again this could well impact the average age slightly. You also have a few more athletes remaining at 5k/10k training like Heaslip and Mitchell which is encouraging to see following the mass migration to the marathon in recent years of our top distance runners due to the large gap between standards for championships.

Safiri

Testosterscone wrote: »

Just on the age point. Here are some of the noteworthy European women's results in the marathon in recent times

- 2008 Olympic Marathon winner Constantina Dita (38)
- 2013/14 World/European Silver medalist Valeria Straneo (37 & 38)
- 2014 European Champion (and current) Christelle Daunay (39)

Isn't that a bit of cherry picking though? They are outliers more than the norm.

One thing I do think is that anything that does come at the elite level from the running boom will take years to develop. The explosion in juvenile numbers means they first have to get older before hitting senior level and will be even longer before they get to the age where the marathon becomes their focus. For a 12 year old taking up athletics, it might be 10 years before they start making an impact at senior level and maybe 15-20 years before they can make an impact at the marathon. The lull between 15-35 year olds at a high level is probably more down to the barren spell of athletics in the mid-90's to 2010 than what is happening now. Changes will take time as athletes don't develop overnight and it might take years yet before we see any impact at senior level.

Testosterscone

Safiri wrote: »

Isn't that a bit of cherry picking though? They are outliers more than the norm.

One thing I do think is that anything that does come at the elite level from the running boom will take years to develop. The explosion in juvenile numbers means they first have to get older before hitting senior level and will be even longer before they get to the age where the marathon becomes their focus. For a 12 year old taking up athletics, it might be 10 years before they start making an impact at senior level and maybe 15-20 years before they can make an impact at the marathon. The lull between 15-35 year olds at a high level is probably more down to the barren spell of athletics in the mid-90's to 2010 than what is happening now. Changes will take time as athletes don't develop overnight and it might take years yet before we see any impact at senior level.

They were chosen because they are the only notable European medalist at that level in the past 10 years.

The only other notable performances i can think of are Sara Moreira (29) for 3rd in New York in her Debut and Volha Mazuronak with her 5th place in Olympics in 2016 (27)

The running boom has well and truly become independent of athletics in this country. Junior/Senior athlete numbers are still abysmally low and drop off rates in the sport continue to remain steadily high. Over 30% of the AAI membership do not actively engage with the sport at a grass roots level and volunteers remain hopelessly overstretched with minimal return when you see participation numbers. I think we will be waiting a very long time for any sort of conversion if things stay the way they currently are.