Peat bedding for cattle

Robson99 · 31-01-2021 6:39pm

They looking to stop straw bedding next for cattle...soon we will have to put nappies on them.
There is more thought about wolves roaming wild and birds coming in from Africa than there is about agriculture or rural communities in this country

31-01-2021 6:40pm

endainoz wrote: »

According to eco eye last week, they said burning peat released far more carbon that burning coal or oil for heating. Found that very suprising, would have always figured coal was the worst culprit.

That may well be the case. Did they provide the figures on the total amounts of peat, oil, coal, and gas burned? There are pretty horrific levels of pollution assigned to the extraction of coal, oil, and gas. Much more so than peat extraction I would wager.

_Brian · 31-01-2021 6:40pm

endainoz wrote: »

According to eco eye last week, they said burning peat released far more carbon that burning coal or oil for heating. Found that very suprising, would have always figured coal was the worst culprit.

I’m sure it’s to do with the calorific content of each fuel. Far more peat needs to be burned to produce the same heat as equivalent weight of coal.

31-01-2021 6:41pm

Robson99 wrote: »

They looking to stop straw bedding next for cattle...soon we will have to put nappies on them.
There is more thought about wolves roaming wild and birds coming in from Africa than there is about agriculture or rural communities in this country

Grow and chip your own woodchip, that'll work as bedding. It can be composted, which takes time, but the resulting compost can be used as bedding also.

_Brian · 31-01-2021 6:43pm

Robson99 wrote: »

They looking to stop straw bedding next for cattle...soon we will have to put nappies on them.
There is more thought about wolves roaming wild and birds coming in from Africa than there is about agriculture or rural communities in this country

In many ways your right.
Agriculture is no longer seen as being pivotal to the success of the national income. More of the population is urban now compared to previous times when the rural population was where the votes were. Politicians want votes not friends.

Robson99 · 31-01-2021 6:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Grow and chip your own woodchip, that'll work as bedding. It can be composted, which takes time, but the resulting compost can be used as bedding also.

They tell us to plant land but we can't cut the fecking trees because some looper objects. You could only laugh at the ****e the come up with. The more you look at it the more you can see why England got fed up of it

31-01-2021 6:55pm

Robson99 wrote: »

They tell us to plant land but we can't cut the fecking trees because some looper objects. You could only laugh at the ****e the come up with. The more you look at it the more you can see why England got fed up of it

There's a term I can't recollect at the moment, basically it's the smaller sized limbs that compost easier than the bigger stuff. So trees could be fast growing variety and wouldn't need to be all that big to chip afaik, but I've more looking into it to do.

Fairly fed up of it myself now, I don't disagree with their going, but have huge difficulties in how they went about it.

endainoz · 31-01-2021 7:02pm

I still believe tillage guys will make more money by selling straw to farmers, but it surely will go up in price. This will surely encourage people to look into alternatives though. There is an increased usage of rushes for beds these days, or even just old silage though I'm not sure how youd stop cattle eating bad silage.

I'm really looking forward to trying out bio char though.

Jb1989 · 31-01-2021 7:05pm

endainoz wrote: »

I still believe tillage guys will make more money by selling straw to farmers, but it surely will go up in price. This will surely encourage people to look into alternatives though. There is an increased usage of rushes for beds these days, or even just old silage though I'm not sure how youd stop cattle eating bad silage.

I'm really looking forward to trying out bio char though.

Feeding ad lib good silage will deter bad silage eating.

Say my name · 31-01-2021 7:18pm

First off I'll get my rant out the way..

This straw scheme is the greatest load of scutter that a primary educated individual ever came up with. It was thought up by a purist tillage farmer with thought of only short term economic gain.
There's not a single environmental reason for it. It was thought up by someone who believes a plough is a thing of worship instead of the atmospheric weapon of mass destruction that it is.
The scheme will be subscribed, why wouldn't it? Organic farmers will have no straw, all other livestock farmers the same. If they get access the price will be doubled. It'll cause farmers to look for alternatives and alternative ways of housing.
The mushroom sector will be just gone. Just forget it. It's gone.

Between the livestock farmers been forced to turn away from straw and the mushroom sector gone. Any pure tillage farmers better hope that this scheme and money flows from the government for eternity. Because they'll be no outlets now without it. Well done whoever thought up the scheme. Well done.
May ye plough back up yer straw the year after in yer sterile soil.

Say my name · 31-01-2021 7:31pm

endainoz wrote: »

I'm really looking forward to trying out bio char though.

You (and I) may look at living deep bedding systems.
It's a bedding system maybe 5ft deep.
Start off with biochar on the bottom. Then a layer of logs (I think these may be optional. But they provide microbes. And they do be put in to stop the pigs that the bedding was originally made for rooting under the housing).
Layers of woodchip then and inoculated with effective microbes.

Having this in Ireland for cattle probably would mean a feeding area separate. With pit dug 5 or 6ft deep behind the feeding area and filled up with the above.
In Asia they say the bedding like that lasts for 5 or 6 years with no intervention. But for cattle here it's probably dependent on a tractor and ripper to mix at times and good aeration to the shed and figuring out a proper stocking level and possibly a sump pump to pump any moisture from the bottom of the pit to keep dry.

nilhg · 31-01-2021 8:11pm

So no one seems to be up for growing a few acres of barley or oats or wheat and keeping the straw for bedding? Loads of options for using the grain on farm as well. I'm sure most farms would have grown some in the past, just ask the older generations, great help to the local wildlife and biodiversity as well.

Jb1989 · 31-01-2021 8:44pm

nilhg wrote: »

So no one seems to be up for growing a few acres of barley or oats or wheat and keeping the straw for bedding? Loads of options for using the grain on farm as well. I'm sure most farms would have grown some in the past, just ask the older generations, great help to the local wildlife and biodiversity as well.

Land around here not suitable for it, was torture for past generations.

K.G. · 31-01-2021 8:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a term I can't recollect at the moment, basically it's the smaller sized limbs that compost easier than the bigger stuff. So trees could be fast growing variety and wouldn't need to be all that big to chip afaik, but I've more looking into it to do.

Fairly fed up of it myself now, I don't disagree with their going, but have huge difficulties in how they went about it.

Not saying abit but the biggest priblem with sustainable farming is its not sustainable. Take the fella that was pulling limbs out of the wood with oxens.if you tryi g to heat a house with that carry on you d do nothing else in the day.that is typical of alot of sustainable solutio s put foward for farming they are put foward by people that are not relying on these practices to sustain their lifestyle. A few weeks ago we had an ex pilot in kerry relying on free labour to sustain his business,probaly still drawing a few quid out of the piloting as well.

31-01-2021 9:06pm

K.G. wrote: »

Not saying abit but the biggest priblem with sustainable farming is its not sustainable. Take the fella that was pulling limbs out of the wood with oxens.if you tryi g to heat a house with that carry on you d do nothing else in the day.that is typical of alot of sustainable solutio s put foward for farming they are put foward by people that are not relying on these practices to sustain their lifestyle. A few weeks ago we had an ex pilot in kerry relying on free labour to sustain his business,probaly still drawing a few quid out of the piloting as well.

You may expand your horizons a bit if you believe there are no solutions but what's always been done, or something out of Teagasc. The Biofarm thread is a very good place to start.

I'll pass on what's shown on ETTG.

endainoz · 31-01-2021 9:06pm

nilhg wrote: »

So no one seems to be up for growing a few acres of barley or oats or wheat and keeping the straw for bedding? Loads of options for using the grain on farm as well. I'm sure most farms would have grown some in the past, just ask the older generations, great help to the local wildlife and biodiversity as well.

That night be all well and good on a small scale but the land wouldn't be suitable. I'd love to see a lad come up my way with a big combine!

Speaking of tillage lads, do we have any idea of the figures they will get for ploughing the straw into the ground as opposed to making bales and selling it?

endainoz · 31-01-2021 9:08pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You may expand your horizons a bit if you believe there are no solutions but what's always been done, or something out of Teagasc. The Biofarm thread is a very good place to start.

I'll pass on what's shown on ETTG.

It was quite interesting all the same! The guy had a mixed farm with hens and other bits, the hedge laying segment was worth watching also, though they could have expanded on it a bit better.

31-01-2021 9:10pm

endainoz wrote: »

It was quite interesting all the same! The guy had a mixed farm with hens and other bits, the hedge laying segment was worth watching also, though they could have expanded on it a bit better.

I'm sure it was, I briefly looked into getting some working horses earlier this year but that plan had more than an agricultural aspect. Everyone should be happy in how they farm.

_Brian · 31-01-2021 9:11pm

nilhg wrote: »

So no one seems to be up for growing a few acres of barley or oats or wheat and keeping the straw for bedding? Loads of options for using the grain on farm as well. I'm sure most farms would have grown some in the past, just ask the older generations, great help to the local wildlife and biodiversity as well.

It relied on incredible levels of manpower compared to what is available now. Many lads working alongside then thrashers were working for subsistence rather than a living.

nilhg · 31-01-2021 9:19pm

K.G. wrote: »

Not saying abit but the biggest priblem with sustainable farming is its not sustainable. Take the fella that was pulling limbs out of the wood with oxens.if you tryi g to heat a house with that carry on you d do nothing else in the day.that is typical of alot of sustainable solutio s put foward for farming they are put foward by people that are not relying on these practices to sustain their lifestyle. A few weeks ago we had an ex pilot in kerry relying on free labour to sustain his business,probaly still drawing a few quid out of the piloting as well.

endainoz wrote: »

That night be all well and good on a small scale but the land wouldn't be suitable. I'd love to see a lad come up my way with a big combine!

Speaking of tillage lads, do we have any idea of the figures they will get for ploughing the straw into the ground as opposed to making bales and selling it?

The IFJ article says €250/ha which will be attractive to some growers once you consider the fertiliser value of the straw. Have a look at the video below from about 27mins in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy-uhmj64GU

While many farmers will say that their land isn't suitable to grow even a small amount of cereal crop to provide feed and bedding that can't be true of a large part of the country, every lbit takes the pressure off the rest?

If your livestock enterprises require bedding you have two choices, buy it or grow it, probably doesn't have to be cereals for straw, if wood chip will do then maybe your land can grow that? Other options out there too maybe. Straw has bee too cheap for too long, maybe not to the end user, middle men have done well out of it too.

endainoz · 31-01-2021 9:26pm

nilhg wrote: »

The IFJ article says €250/ha which will be attractive to some growers once you consider the fertiliser value of the straw. Have a look at the video below from about 27mins in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy-uhmj64GU

While many farmers will say that their land isn't suitable to grow even a small amount of cereal crop to provide feed and bedding that can't be true of a large part of the country, every lbit takes the pressure off the rest?

If your livestock enterprises require bedding you have two choices, buy it or grow it, probably doesn't have to be cereals for straw, if wood chip will do then maybe your land can grow that? Other options out there too maybe. Straw has bee too cheap for too long, maybe not to the end user, middle men have done well out of it too.

If the middle men want to keep getting straw to sell they'll give a better price for it, which of course would be trickled down to ourselves.

I get what your saying, but people don't have time to wait for trees to grow to make woodchip out of them, also it takes ages to break down so would be needed to be stored over 18months at least before it could be spread on ground. This would require covered storage that people may not have.

Might be growing some hemp in the wbc plot next year, not sure if it could be baled or anything but who knows. I'd say probably not as the fibres would be too strong but who knows.

Say my name · 31-01-2021 9:30pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm sure it was, I briefly looked into getting some working horses earlier this year but that plan had more than an agricultural aspect. Everyone should be happy in how they farm.

I think the bullock (fancy word oxen) would be easier manage than the horse for draft work. You'll still get the more than an "agricultural aspect" from it.
They were always the poor man's horse and I mean that in the best possible way. They won't have all the trouble a horse can bring e.g mudrash, dropping pedal bones, gravel in feet. Now they can get an abscess in the foot. But for mise. An amateur on horses. A bovine has a much nicer easier temperament.
With the bonus of going into the freezer when it's time has come.

31-01-2021 9:40pm

Say my name wrote: »

I think the bullock (fancy word oxen) would be easier manage than the horse for draft work. You'll still get the more than an "agricultural aspect" from it.
They were always the poor man's horse and I mean that in the best possible way. They won't have all the trouble a horse can bring e.g mudrash, dropping pedal bones, gravel in feet. Now they can get an abscess in the foot. But for mise. An amateur on horses. A bovine has a much nicer easier temperament.
With the bonus of going into the freezer when it's time has come.

Our vet suggest donkies because "You'll never have to see me with them!" The reason behind horses specifically was with the weight involved, can't recall if I looked into getting Bullocks to do the job, he might object :pac:

nilhg · 31-01-2021 9:43pm

_Brian wrote: »

It relied on incredible levels of manpower compared to what is available now. Many lads working alongside then thrashers were working for subsistence rather than a living.

But sure no one is mowing meadows with a scythe anymore either, the equipment is there to do it if people have the inclination.

endainoz wrote: »

If the middle men want to keep getting straw to sell they'll give a better price for it, which of course would be trickled down to ourselves.

I get what your saying, but people don't have time to wait for trees to grow to make woodchip out of them, also it takes ages to break down so would be needed to be stored over 18months at least before it could be spread on ground. This would require covered storage that people may not have.

Might be growing some hemp in the wbc plot next year, not sure if it could be baled or anything but who knows. I'd say probably not as the fibres would be too strong but who knows.

Not trying to make this personal to you but as I said if livestock enterprises require bedding to function then either you have to source it or change the enterprise. One such change was a big move to slatted accommodation in the west, reduced the amount of straw moving then, but the acreage of cereals in the country has been dropping since.

Say my name · 31-01-2021 10:05pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Our vet suggest donkies because "You'll never have to see me with them!" The reason behind horses specifically was with the weight involved, can't recall if I looked into getting Bullocks to do the job, he might object :pac:

No watching of ettg needed.

https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/living/2021/0128/1193564-the-farmer-running-his-land-on-cattle-power/

https://twitter.com/ellamcsweeney/status/1355822862611980288?s=20

K.G. · 31-01-2021 10:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You may expand your horizons a bit if you believe there are no solutions but what's always been done, or something out of Teagasc. The Biofarm thread is a very good place to start.

I'll pass on what's shown on ETTG.

What would be the numbers on the wood chip solution.how many acres,time frame,labour requirement

Base price · 31-01-2021 11:20pm

Say my name wrote: »

No watching of ettg needed.

https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/living/2021/0128/1193564-the-farmer-running-his-land-on-cattle-power/

https://twitter.com/ellamcsweeney/status/1355822862611980288?s=20

Shorthorn ??

Birdnuts · 31-01-2021 11:25pm

endainoz wrote: »

That night be all well and good on a small scale but the land wouldn't be suitable. I'd love to see a lad come up my way with a big combine!

Speaking of tillage lads, do we have any idea of the figures they will get for ploughing the straw into the ground as opposed to making bales and selling it?

Wholecrop oats though are a potential option for finishing stock to a decent standard while saving on buying in expensive meal. Can be baled and harvested much like Silage. Thinking of going with a couple of acres of Spring Oats this year myself

Birdnuts · 31-01-2021 11:36pm

Say my name wrote: »

No watching of ettg needed.

https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/living/2021/0128/1193564-the-farmer-running-his-land-on-cattle-power/

https://twitter.com/ellamcsweeney/status/1355822862611980288?s=20

A couple of lads I know supplying timber fuel in North Kildare use Clydesdales to get specimen trees out of awkward thining spots on plantations on hilly or wet land that machinery can't manage.

Base price · 31-01-2021 11:38pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

Wholecrop oats though are a potential option for finishing stock to a decent standard while saving on buying in expensive meal. Can be baled and harvested much like Silage. Thinking of going with a couple of acres of Spring Oats this year myself

What stage do you cut it at, when the seed is soft and milky or when the stalk is still green. It would be a idea to put in if you wanted to reseed a field afterwards.

Peat bedding for cattle

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