Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Abandoned House

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Turfcutter
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Turfcutter


    368100 wrote: »
    I havent moved in....i'm trying to buy it

    Wrong answer...
    You moved in 12 years ago :pac:


  • Options
    #33
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,348 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Can you clarify this. If I find someone trying to steal my property I cannot remove them, doesn't sound right.

    You cannot forcibly remove them, no. You'd notify them that you are the owner; enlist legal advice; and pursue your rights via the courts. You'd be eventually granted legal possession and the occupant given a short period to get their affairs in order and move on.
    Del2005 wrote: »
    So if I break into a house I'm better off staying inside and saying it's mine than trying to make a get away. Make a run and I've committed a criminal act, stay in the house and it's civil. Our laws are fecked.

    While people might not like the idea of it, adverse possession is a concept that maintains the value of land. Simply put, while you might feel that property rights are absolute, failure to exercise active use of land is a waste to society. A property gathering dust with no interest from its owners for 15 years (or maybe owners no longer alive who failed to make provisions for it) is a sad thing. Were someone to move into it, and intentionally fix it up and occupy it as their own then:

    - the local area benefits by liveable land being used appropriately
    - the owners ultimately benefit if they reclaim it through the courts within the next 12 years

    So the advice in this situation - providing the OP has done his homework and the owners have genuinely ignored it for 15 years - is to move in and use it as a home. Fix it up, live there, register utilities and services to the property and query trespassers. It is important to note that just being on abandoned land does not equal adverse possession as these differing cases illustrate:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/state-fails-in-bid-to-evict-squatter-1.698608

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/man-not-entited-to-squatters-rights-1.2006109


  • Options
    #34
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    OP, what LuckyLloyd said is pretty much the best portrayal of the situation. Get onto your solicitor, do your research and move into the house when you genuinely can't trace the owners. The situation is very likely that local are happy when an abandoned house is moved again.


  • Options
    #35
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    LirW wrote: »
    OP, what LuckyLloyd said is pretty much the best portrayal of the situation. Get onto your solicitor, do your research and move into the house when you genuinely can't trace the owners. The situation is very likely that local are happy when an abandoned house is moved again.

    I tried that a couple of times last year when I was seeking somewhere.. asking re empty abandoned looking houses.. You never saw locals claim their locality so fast, and the shutters went up.

    If you can claim kin within memory, far better


  • Options
    #36
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Graces7 wrote: »
    I tried that a couple of times last year when I was seeking somewhere.. asking re empty abandoned looking houses.. You never saw locals claim their locality so fast, and the shutters went up.

    If you can claim kin within memory, far better

    Well, the folio lists the legal owner. I made quite the opposite experiences, people don't like properties being empty for a long period of time, especially when they're adjoining other houses. Of course it's nice that it's quiet, but the building can deteriorate fast and turn into an eyesore that many really don't like.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Why do so many think its ok to move into a property you do not own ?. Its not your property dont move in. Does property rights not mean anything anymore ?The government are already crazy against landlords now we have the man on the street thinking I dont know who owns a property so its ok to move in and claim that property.


  • Options
    #38
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Why do so many think its ok to move into a property you do not own ?. Its not your property dont move in. Does property rights not mean anything anymore ?The government are already crazy against landlords now we have the man on the street thinking I dont know who owns a property so its ok to move in and claim that property.

    Because it maintains the value of the property and the property surrounding it. Adverse possession is a property right.


  • Options
    #39
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    handlemaster wrote: »
    Why do so many think its ok to move into a property you do not own ?. Its not your property dont move in. Does property rights not mean anything anymore ?The government are already crazy against landlords now we have the man on the street thinking I dont know who owns a property so its ok to move in and claim that property.

    Because it maintains the value of the property and the property surrounding it. Adverse possession is a property right.


    Yea. Maintains the value. Sure thats the concern of the trespasser. Its stealing that you know is not yours. The law over time may give technical control to the occupier. .. that doesnt mean the law is à good law .. the individual is wholely dishonorable


  • Options
    #40
    Raging_Ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭Raging_Ninja


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Yea. Maintains the value. Sure thats the concern of the trespasser. Its stealing that you know is not yours. The law over time may give technical control to the occupier. .. that doesnt mean the law is à good law .. the individual is wholely dishonorable

    The property has been abandoned for 15 years. The owners have 12 years after the OP moves in to claim their property back. The owners could be dead for all we know.


  • Options
    #41
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,348 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Why do so many think its ok to move into a property you do not own ?. Its not your property dont move in. Does property rights not mean anything anymore ?The government are already crazy against landlords now we have the man on the street thinking I dont know who owns a property so its ok to move in and claim that property.

    Property rights are not and never have been absolute. Use it or lose it. In order for Adverse Possession to be legally won, the original owner needs to pay so little heed or attention to their property that someone can occupy it in a purposeful way as their own for 12 years! Why should someone be entitled to leave liveable land untouched, unguarded and uninspected for such a long period of time?
    handlemaster wrote: »
    Yea. Maintains the value. Sure thats the concern of the trespasser. Its stealing that you know is not yours. The law over time may give technical control to the occupier. .. that doesnt mean the law is ood law .. the individual is wholely dishonorable

    That's the concern of society as a whole though. Vacant liveable land and property is a waste to society, physically and emotionally.

    And just to be clear, over time adverse possession passes full valid title of ownership from the negligent owner to the occupier - it's not a technicality.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Property rights are not and never have been absolute. Use it or lose it. In order for Adverse Possession to be legally won, the original owner needs to pay so little heed or attention to their property that someone can occupy it in a purposeful way as their own for 12 years! Why should someone be entitled to leave liveable land untouched, unguarded and uninspected for such a long period of time?



    That's the concern of society as a whole though. Vacant liveable land and property is a waste to society, physically and emotionally.

    And it could take decades for the state to finally take control of the land if it actually is abandoned or there's no living owner or someone who knows they're entitled to the land through their relationship with possibly deceased owners.


  • Options
    #43
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Turfcutter wrote: »
    Wrong answer...
    You moved in 12 years ago :pac:

    Ah but you would have to prove that. eg utility bills for you at that address.


  • Options
    #44
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,348 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Ah but you would have to prove that. eg utility bills for you at that address.

    And that’s the thing, adverse possession is necessarily hard to prove. A well known case in Ireland was rejected as the court concluded that the landowner periodically looking at his land from the road meant he was exercising his rights as he saw fit. The burden is on the plaintiff to prove adverse possession with requisite intent.


  • Options
    #45
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,945 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Why do so many think its ok to move into a property you do not own ?. Its not your property dont move in. Does property rights not mean anything anymore ?The government are already crazy against landlords now we have the man on the street thinking I dont know who owns a property so its ok to move in and claim that property.

    Because it's the mechanism which Irish law provides for dealing with these cases.

    Now I can think of a few better approaches which don't involve individuals in land-grabbing. But none of them are allowed under the law in this country at the moment.


  • Options
    #46
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,989 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    You cannot forcibly remove them, no. You'd notify them that you are the owner; enlist legal advice; and pursue your rights via the courts. You'd be eventually granted legal possession and the occupant given a short period to get their affairs in order and move on.



    While people might not like the idea of it, adverse possession is a concept that maintains the value of land. Simply put, while you might feel that property rights are absolute, failure to exercise active use of land is a waste to society. A property gathering dust with no interest from its owners for 15 years (or maybe owners no longer alive who failed to make provisions for it) is a sad thing. Were someone to move into it, and intentionally fix it up and occupy it as their own then:

    - the local area benefits by liveable land being used appropriately
    - the owners ultimately benefit if they reclaim it through the courts within the next 12 years

    So the advice in this situation - providing the OP has done his homework and the owners have genuinely ignored it for 15 years - is to move in and use it as a home. Fix it up, live there, register utilities and services to the property and query trespassers. It is important to note that just being on abandoned land does not equal adverse possession as these differing cases illustrate:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/state-fails-in-bid-to-evict-squatter-1.698608

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/man-not-entited-to-squatters-rights-1.2006109

    So if while you are at the shops if I can get access to your house without criminal damage it's mine for several months. That's cool, I've no idea why I've bothered to get a mortgage or why people are homeless when all you need to do is pick a lock and everywhere can yours.

    I've no problem with adverse possession but once the owner turns up the attempted theft should be dealt with by the criminal system, if they get to 12 years without the owners noticing then they can start the adverse process but up till 12 years they are stealing and that's criminal.


  • Options
    #47
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,348 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Del2005 wrote: »
    So if while you are at the shops if I can get access to your house without criminal damage it's mine for several months. That's cool, I've no idea why I've bothered to get a mortgage or why people are homeless when all you need to do is pick a lock and everywhere can yours.

    I've no problem with adverse possession but once the owner turns up the attempted theft should be dealt with by the criminal system, if they get to 12 years without the owners noticing then they can start the adverse process but up till 12 years they are stealing and that's criminal.

    In the scenario you describe the reality of contents, active services into the house, etc would complicate the issue and give the Gardai scope to get involved.

    In Adverse Possession cases we're typically talking about buildings left completely idle for a long period of time, or where an owner has passed on with no next of kin and / or provision for the property in a will. The situations are not one and the same.

    But the bottom line here is to protect one's property, inspect it regularly and actively own it. And obviously to make provision for it. I'm sure many Dublin people are familiar with the type of squats that have sprung up over the years in abandoned Georgian properties, and equally with the type of protections added to many of those types of buildings where the owner has no immediate interest in renovating / using same. We often have to actively assert and protect our rights in life, and seek redress via the courts as necessary.


  • Options
    #48
    Techold
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Techold


    LirW wrote: »
    Adverse Possession. Basically what Samuel said, move in, hope you don't get into trouble with the original owner for 12 years, then apply for adverse possession, congrats you have a house. If your research has shown that the properties are idle for such a long time, how likely would it be that they ever show up, especially in a rural area?
    Maybe when doing that save a good amount of cash away if the owner ever shows up and offer to buy it off them.
    Its called stealing


Advertisement