Eir rural FTTH thread II

Marlow

Oh . and even Three have copped on to that:

why do you think they introduced a 15.99 EUR/month plan last year (3GB cap)

There is a type of customer, that turns on their computer 4-5 times a month. Gets mail, Skypes the family in the US, writes a mail, checks Google, checks Done deal. There's actually a lot of those.

And they do not like dial-up either.

/M

Westnet: Paul

Marlow wrote: »

That's also the reason, why no other provider (than Eir retail) offers free install on new FTTH lines.

Ahem.

fritzelly

Westnet: Paul wrote: »

Ahem.

So if there is no current connection to the home you don't charge, wording on your site seems to indicate only where there is a connection already
I say this because seems weird to charge for install for crappy broadband but not a new FTTH install

Marlow

Westnet: Paul wrote: »

Ahem.

Fair enuff. If the customer doesn't stick around after the 12 months, you're at a loss though, unless you get extra revenue from other services.

fritzelly wrote: »

So if there is no current connection to the home you don't charge, wording on your site seems to indicate only where there is a connection already
I say this because seems weird to charge for install for crappy broadband but not a new FTTH install

http://www.westnet.ie/packages/fibre-to-the-home---new-service/7/ .. says no connection fee.

FWA is not crappy. It's just not as fast. It's all a matter of what you need it for or what your budget is.

/M

fritzelly

Marlow wrote: »

http://www.westnet.ie/packages/fibre-to-the-home---new-service/7/ .. says no connection fee.

FWA is not crappy. It's just not as fast. It's all a matter of what you need it for or what your budget is.

/M

now have Fibre Infrastructure running to their front doors

...seems to indicate where there is already a connection. Just seems weird to charge a 100 euro for DSL but nothing for FTTH which involves more cost
Easy to charge nothing where it's just a modem change

(@Marlow crappy few mb download vs FTTH speed)

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

...seems to indicate where there is already a connection. Just seems weird to charge a 100 euro for DSL but nothing for FTTH which involves more cost
Easy to charge nothing where it's just a modem change

(crappy few mb download vs FTTH speed)

The majority of VDSL lines are not just a modem change, but engineer costs are a lot lower of course.

The reference to having fiber at their door step just means, that OpenEIR has passed the premise. But it's a loss making exercise. Obviously Westnet counts on customer loyalty, which shouldn't be difficult ... given the quality of product, router and support from other providers, they compete with.

Most providers just can't justify that loss and/or have more competition.

/M

frozenfrozen

I was trying to sort someone at work out and failed. He got a FTTH connection installed about a month ago. The router was never sent to him but the connection was tested and was working so said the installer.

He got a router, and was trying to set it up with dsl login details etc.

He brought it in to work and I did the following.. wan over ethernet, no login, and vlan 10 for wan. I tested it was working by toggling off the vlan option and plugging a 4g modem into the wan ethernet port and I was able to get on the internet through his router. Turned vlan 10 option back on and handed him back the router. It was a netgear d6400

He says it's still not working...

Any ideas before I end up going to his house to try sort it? He has got Eir to send him out a new modem but it'll be a next week and tbh I'm just interested in why what I did didn't work.

Can't rule out his PC or something silly being an issue..

Marlow

frozenfrozen wrote: »

no login

That's the problem right there. He needs PPPoE and the login credentials.

Won't work otherwise.

/M

fritzelly

Maybe point him to this
http://www.computersupportservices.ie/use-a-third-party-modem-with-eircom-efibre-connection-instead-of-bridging/

frozenfrozen

PPOE for FTTH? o.0

what about what this fella says http://finbarrbrady.com/2017-07-13-replace-eir-f2000/

tsue921i8wljb3

frozenfrozen wrote: »

PPOE for FTTH? o.0

what about what this fella says http://finbarrbrady.com/2017-07-13-replace-eir-f2000/

It is IPoE for eir retail.

Here are my settings. Get him to copy them.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105812515&postcount=9443

Marlow

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

It is IPoE for eir retail.

Fair enuff.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

PPOE for FTTH? o.0

Both OpenEIR and SIRO offer to use PPPoE or IPoE. Most providers opt for PPPoE. As Navi pointed out, IPoE for Eir retail.

/M

ED E

Marlow wrote: »

That's the problem right there. He needs PPPoE and the login credentials.

Won't work otherwise.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

PPOE for FTTH? o.0

what about what this fella says http://finbarrbrady.com/2017-07-13-replace-eir-f2000/

Dominique Loud Waistband wrote: »

It is IPoE for eir retail.

Its IPOE by default with Eir though CSIs still exist for PPPoE if you want it. If you buy a static IP it must be PPPoE and PPPoE breaks EirVision access.

IPOE routes packets from the aggregator on so may in some narrow circumstances produce lower latency.

Marlow

ED E wrote: »

though CSIs still exist for PPPoE if you want it

Still working with standard credentials (unless you've bought a fixed IP that is) ??

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I was trying to sort someone at work out and failed. He got a FTTH connection installed about a month ago. The router was never sent to him but the connection was tested and was working so said the installer.

He got a router, and was trying to set it up with dsl login details etc.

He brought it in to work and I did the following.. wan over ethernet, no login, and vlan 10 for wan. I tested it was working by toggling off the vlan option and plugging a 4g modem into the wan ethernet port and I was able to get on the internet through his router. Turned vlan 10 option back on and handed him back the router. It was a netgear d6400

He says it's still not working...

Any ideas before I end up going to his house to try sort it? He has got Eir to send him out a new modem but it'll be a next week and tbh I'm just interested in why what I did didn't work.

Can't rule out his PC or something silly being an issue..

Is it this device?

http://www.netgear.ie/home/products/networking/dsl-modems-routers/D6400.aspx

Can it do VLAN on WAN?

frozenfrozen

Yes that's the one. it can do vlan on wan which I set to 10. I've just had a read through the manual for it and I think the only way to choose whether the WAN has a static IP or DHCP is going through their setup wizard (which I didn't do)

seeing as about 4 different people messed with the router before me I'm going to guess that someone did the setup wizard and could have chosen static ip.. although then it wouldn't have worked with the little 4g modem..

Westnet: Paul

fritzelly wrote: »

So if there is no current connection to the home you don't charge, wording on your site seems to indicate only where there is a connection already

The wording may be confusing you, but we don't charge for FTTH or VDSL installation.

I say this because seems weird to charge for install for crappy broadband but not a new FTTH install

We don't charge for FTTH installation because we're competing head-to-head with several other providers on the same infrastructure, and we need to differentiate our offering.

With FWA we need to provide both outdoor and indoor routers and send a two-man team to do a potentially complicated install and cable run. We could do the installation for free, but (as Marlow has pointed out) we lose money on the FTTH installations in the first year - we can't really afford to lose money on everything we do.

Marlow wrote: »

Fair enuff. If the customer doesn't stick around after the 12 months, you're at a loss though, unless you get extra revenue from other services.

Yes. That's a calculated risk on our part. If nothing else, it's a strong incentive to make the customer very happy.

ED E

Marlow wrote: »

Still working with standard credentials (unless you've bought a fixed IP that is) ??

/M

Yeah, IIRC.

Eir and Vodafone use CSIs so credentials are just placeholders. Sky auth based on credentials themselves (creating a provisioning headache). Some smaller ops work the same way.


There's also a nice case where the Eir NOC doesnt assign enough IPs to an NGA exchange and thus there's pool exhaustion and PPPoE bypasses that but lets not get into that.... #justEircomThings

Marlow

ED E wrote: »

Yeah, IIRC.

Eir and Vodafone use CSIs so credentials are just placeholders. Sky auth based on credentials themselves (creating a provisioning headache). Some smaller ops work the same way.


There's also a nice case where the Eir NOC doesnt assign enough IPs to an NGA exchange and thus there's pool exhaustion and PPPoE bypasses that but lets not get into that.... #justEircomThings

Auth based on credentials is not that stupid. It depends on what you want to do.

If you have loads of IPs (which Eircom does ... as http://www.cidr-report.org/cgi-bin/as-report?as=AS5466&view=2.0 shows), then that's all fine.

If you're stuck for IPs and don't want to do provider-NAT or DS-lite, then using PPPoE and simply giving customers IPs out of a central pool is the most efficient way of doing things without having IPv4 address go to waste or idle in a pool that isn't utilized. It also makes traffic accounting a lot easier.

Either way .. at the end of the day, every ISP has a different idea on how they want to manage things.

Local pool exhaustion is a dummy mistake though

/M

fritzelly

Maybe Marlow or Navi will know this (and looking at the screenshot earlier using IPv4) is eir IPv6 compatible/ready as far as their exchanges are concerned?
Haven't looked at it in a while but IIRC IPv4 is now pretty much all gone (if not already) - just wondering if eir even has enough to go around at this point if they are still relying on it
Guess stupid question and they must be future proofed but would have thought they would already be using it.

Marlow

fritzelly wrote: »

Maybe Marlow or Navi will know this (and looking at the screenshot earlier using IPv4) is eir IPv6 compatible/ready as far as their exchanges are concerned?

Yes. IPv6 is fully working with Eir now. Which is refreshing, when so many other monopolies still are ignorant.

/M

wheresthebeef

Robxxx7 wrote: »

The 100mb is more than likely FTTC (Fibre to the cabinet) and not FTTH .. different product

I ordered FTTH and the package presented to me was 100Mbps. I know I can't get FTTC as I'm too far from the cabinet. I ordered by going through OpenEir, from there on to Eir website which again confirmed FTTH was available and let me order. I had assumed it was either an error, or that the FTTH cabinet didn't have enough backhaul to offer me more bandwith than 10pmbps. I'm in the rural 300k.

Installer is due out next Wednesday. If he comes with a roll of copper cable I'll scream. We don't have any existing line or any kind and have been using ImagineLTE until now. It would be pure idiocy of them to install copper first and then fibre.

Marlow

wheresthebeef wrote: »

Installer is due out next Wednesday. If he comes with a roll of copper cable I'll scream. We don't have any existing line or any kind and have been using ImagineLTE until now. It would be pure idiocy of them to install copper first and then fibre.

If he turns up with a roll of copper, just refuse the install. And order from a provider who cares

/M

fritzelly

I would double check that on the phone with them, you wouldn't be quoted 100Mb for FTTH
Maybe your eircode isn't on the system and so FTTC came back as the option when ordering online plus the confusion of the word fibre in their packages

If you are FTTH and your order is FTTC the tech will likely just refuse the install anyway and refer it back as FTTH - so get ahead of the game

wheresthebeef

Marlow wrote: »

If he turns up with a roll of copper, just refuse the install. And order from a provider who cares

/M

I ordered from them under the assumption that as they onwed the network it would be more straightforward. I believe I need one pole installed to get the cable to the entry point of my duct and assumed they'd be best placed to sort sort all this. If they come on the basis of FTTC, ill cancel and re-order with another provider. I was also trying to avoid install fee that some others are charging.

Any recommendations between Digiweb, Net1, Fastcom, Pure, IFA??? (just in case)

ED E

Marlow wrote: »

Auth based on credentials is not that stupid. ....

You misinterpret me, all three run a few large pools for the PPPoE cohort - just Eir/Vod match CSI to CRM profiles and Sky match a unique uname/pw instead. Result is CPE for two is re-usable where Sky's have to be programmed then dispatched to the techs.

Makes a big difference when the dog chews the gateway to bits and you can borrow next doors old one etc.

wheresthebeef wrote: »

Installer is due out next Wednesday. If he comes with a roll of copper cable I'll scream.

I'd put money on you getting a call from KNN Wednesday morning to say "Sorry mate, this isn't possible. Call em back and ask them to do it again".

Marlow

wheresthebeef wrote: »

I ordered from them under the assumption that as they onwed the network it would be more straightforward.

First mistake. Do you know, how many different billing systems exist within Eir retail ? Do you know, how many Eir employee's have a clue and are actually working for Eir ? Not outsourced ?

wheresthebeef wrote: »

Any recommendations between Digiweb, Net1, Fastcom, Pure, IFA??? (just in case)

All depends on where you are. And I'm biased

/M

Marlow

ED E wrote: »

Makes a big difference when the dog chews the gateway to bits and you can borrow next doors old one etc.

You can always do that. Just a matter of the quality of support you're getting

Takes one phone call to get the right credential with an ISP that cares, if you weren't given the details in the first place.

What you describe is a safe guard, because you know, your support team will fail.

/M

wheresthebeef

Marlow wrote: »

First mistake. Do you know, how many different billing systems exist within Eir retail ? Do you know, how many Eir employee's have a clue and are actually working for Eir ? Not outsourced ?



All depends on where you are. And I'm biased

/M

I'm broadly aware that they are incompetent. My brother sells Sky and his reaction was "Dude, just be careful...". He obviously hears a lot of horror stories. I figured that the install was the hard part and that they'd all be the same.

I'm in North Kildare about 3km outside straffan on the road to Maynooth. Are there other providers available that aren't showing on fibrerollout?

To be honest, I would rather not pay an install fee etc... But I don't want to be tortured by eir either. I'll give them one chance and see what they say. I need the line in by April 27th so I have some time to cancel and re-order if needs be.

Is there a difference in install experience if you sign up to a different provider? I was under the impression all the installs were done by KN anyway.

Marlow

wheresthebeef wrote: »

Is there a difference in install experience if you sign up to a different provider? I was under the impression all the installs were done by KN anyway.

Yes. All installs are done by KN. And that experience doesn't change.

Now ... if things go sideways with Eir, you're left to deal with it yourself. They don't even seem to pick up on the install failing.

If you order with most other providers, they'll keep kicking OpenEIR and KN to get the job done.

I recently came across an Eir install, where the person is waiting since May 2017 to get her install completed (and yes, KN was there in May 2017). That's obviously one of the worse cases. And yes, she still doesn't have FTTH. When she tried to cancel her install with Eir, she failed on that too, as you only can cancel via phone with them. She gave up getting through to the cancellation team after hanging in the waiting queue for over 3 hours.

/M